Sad to say this but I'm glad I'm not the only one going through the range of emotions. I had a counselor tell me "no one is as hard on you as you are." Makes sense now but not easier.
Can we talk about jail?
- Thread starter Echolette
- Start date
PLEASE don't bail him out. If he isn't totally miserable, he won't ever change because he doesn't HAVE to. You are NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT an angry bitter woman. You are a loving, devoted mom who KNOWS that her son MUST do his time out if he is ever to have a PRAYER of turning his life around. Better he learn it now than in 10 years. Trust me, it IS better to learn it now.
THe pub defender is young, new and earnest. She has no clue what life with a difficult child is like, not even a teensy glimmer of a clue. She is lying if she says you won't be liable for the entire amt if you sign for his bail. As he has not shown in the past, he isn't going to show in the future. If you sign for bail, figure you have lost the entire amount, not the 10%. Because you will have just handed it to the courts. He will NOT do what he needs to do if you bail him out. The PD just has no idea.
Don't let his pleading or being miserable sway you. He is now learning to walk as an adult. If you carry him, or pick him up for a cuddle because it is hard, he won't ever learn to walk. You didn't pick him up and take him to his toys when he cried as a baby learning to crawl or walk. You stepped back and let him crawl, walk, fall down, get up, do it again, because you KNEW that he NEEDED to do those things.
Right now he is a baby adult. He has to learn how to get through this type of thing or else he won't EVER learn not to do the things that put him there. It isn't his first time in trouble with the law, and if you fix it, it will be the first in a very long line of trouble with the law. If you let him feel the consequences and deal with them on his own, eventually he will learn to walk out of the situation. Or he will CHOOSE to stay in it. He won't follow your rules, now he needs to learn to follow society's. That is part of being an adult. helping him now will only teach him that you will always fix things so he does not have to follow the rules. Period.
Being mentally ill won't chagne the need to learn this. He has to become willing to accept treatment in order to get better. Unless he is miserable, he won't accept help because he won't accept that he has a problem (regardless of if it is drugs, mental illness or whatever). He won't HAVE to accept those things because you will be telling him that the law doesn't apply to him because he is too special, so he can do what he wants. When he experiences enough consequences to make him thoroughly miserable and unhappy, he will then work to figure out how a better way, a way that does not result in breaking the law.
As a member of our society we are not given happiness. We are given the right to pursue happiness. As parents we have the job of raising law abiding, contributing members of society, not happy people. There is a HUGE difference in those things. You son will have to pursue his own happiness, not have you give it to him. He will have to learn how to be law abiding and contribute to society if he wants to have a chance of happiness. He won't do that until he accepts that his way doesn't work. If you fix it by bailing him out, you DEPRIVE him of this chance to learn that.
Please, do NOT deprive your child. Give him the chance to LEARN, to figure out a better way and to become a contributing member of society. Don't carry him now. Let him learn to walk and then he will be able to reach his own success and dreams.
THe pub defender is young, new and earnest. She has no clue what life with a difficult child is like, not even a teensy glimmer of a clue. She is lying if she says you won't be liable for the entire amt if you sign for his bail. As he has not shown in the past, he isn't going to show in the future. If you sign for bail, figure you have lost the entire amount, not the 10%. Because you will have just handed it to the courts. He will NOT do what he needs to do if you bail him out. The PD just has no idea.
Don't let his pleading or being miserable sway you. He is now learning to walk as an adult. If you carry him, or pick him up for a cuddle because it is hard, he won't ever learn to walk. You didn't pick him up and take him to his toys when he cried as a baby learning to crawl or walk. You stepped back and let him crawl, walk, fall down, get up, do it again, because you KNEW that he NEEDED to do those things.
Right now he is a baby adult. He has to learn how to get through this type of thing or else he won't EVER learn not to do the things that put him there. It isn't his first time in trouble with the law, and if you fix it, it will be the first in a very long line of trouble with the law. If you let him feel the consequences and deal with them on his own, eventually he will learn to walk out of the situation. Or he will CHOOSE to stay in it. He won't follow your rules, now he needs to learn to follow society's. That is part of being an adult. helping him now will only teach him that you will always fix things so he does not have to follow the rules. Period.
Being mentally ill won't chagne the need to learn this. He has to become willing to accept treatment in order to get better. Unless he is miserable, he won't accept help because he won't accept that he has a problem (regardless of if it is drugs, mental illness or whatever). He won't HAVE to accept those things because you will be telling him that the law doesn't apply to him because he is too special, so he can do what he wants. When he experiences enough consequences to make him thoroughly miserable and unhappy, he will then work to figure out how a better way, a way that does not result in breaking the law.
As a member of our society we are not given happiness. We are given the right to pursue happiness. As parents we have the job of raising law abiding, contributing members of society, not happy people. There is a HUGE difference in those things. You son will have to pursue his own happiness, not have you give it to him. He will have to learn how to be law abiding and contribute to society if he wants to have a chance of happiness. He won't do that until he accepts that his way doesn't work. If you fix it by bailing him out, you DEPRIVE him of this chance to learn that.
Please, do NOT deprive your child. Give him the chance to LEARN, to figure out a better way and to become a contributing member of society. Don't carry him now. Let him learn to walk and then he will be able to reach his own success and dreams.
Echolette
Well-Known Member
Thank you , susiestar, you hit some of the issues right on the head. I want to update a bit..
My difficult child is still in jail. I did not post bail and won't. When he calls me it is clearly because he wants to know if I'll post bail, and because he hopes I can be a conduit to his girlfriend. Those are his only concerns. He doesn't care about talking with me, although he pretends to as soon as he hears I haven't And that is when the surface anger flashes...even in short conversations I can't be gently supportive or nonjudgemental. He worries that he just disappeared and his girlfriend must be scared and worried about him. I tell him that she knows where I live and has not contacted me to tell me he has been missing for 10 days, or to see if I know where he is. He worries that he can't reach her (no phone, no address....unless "under the bridge" is an address) and that she can't reach him (no phone, address forwarded to "jail" from "under the bridge"--haha, that was a joke). I tell him that to be a good partner you have to be a person who is reachable..have a place where you live, have a phone. That he disappeared off the street because he is a person who has chosen a life and path where that will predictably happen. I say it in a harsh and clear way. Because that is where my surface anger is. But it doesn't feel as bad or devouring as the old deep anger
I do want to seek some practical input for you all...one of his charges (he has two) involves an old plea bargain for which he has to pay $1500. If he pays that on Dec 30 then he will not have a criminal conviction on his records. If he doesn't pay it he will, and back to jail he will go (he'll go to that hearing from jail, since we are not bailing him out). One of the TWO PDs I spoke with said that he will be under that $1500 fine forever...every time he gets picked up he'll bounce back into jail for contempt. He felt strongly I should pay it for him and at least clear that. I can see the logic of that...he will not be able to pay it anytime soon ($500/month from SS is his income), and I know if I pay it he won't pay me back...but somehow the merry go round of bouncing into jail seems dumb...if I have a gift to give him that would be it...although he won't see it as the gift it is. Parents of the forum...what would you do? I don't want him to live with me during any kind of prolonged transition period...I travel for work, and even when home am out of the house all day, plus I have two teenage PCs who live with me half time (custody) and I don't want them to have to deal with him living in the house. So any kind of "live with me under my supervision and pay me back $25 or whatever a week" is not viable.
My difficult child is still in jail. I did not post bail and won't. When he calls me it is clearly because he wants to know if I'll post bail, and because he hopes I can be a conduit to his girlfriend. Those are his only concerns. He doesn't care about talking with me, although he pretends to as soon as he hears I haven't And that is when the surface anger flashes...even in short conversations I can't be gently supportive or nonjudgemental. He worries that he just disappeared and his girlfriend must be scared and worried about him. I tell him that she knows where I live and has not contacted me to tell me he has been missing for 10 days, or to see if I know where he is. He worries that he can't reach her (no phone, no address....unless "under the bridge" is an address) and that she can't reach him (no phone, address forwarded to "jail" from "under the bridge"--haha, that was a joke). I tell him that to be a good partner you have to be a person who is reachable..have a place where you live, have a phone. That he disappeared off the street because he is a person who has chosen a life and path where that will predictably happen. I say it in a harsh and clear way. Because that is where my surface anger is. But it doesn't feel as bad or devouring as the old deep anger
I do want to seek some practical input for you all...one of his charges (he has two) involves an old plea bargain for which he has to pay $1500. If he pays that on Dec 30 then he will not have a criminal conviction on his records. If he doesn't pay it he will, and back to jail he will go (he'll go to that hearing from jail, since we are not bailing him out). One of the TWO PDs I spoke with said that he will be under that $1500 fine forever...every time he gets picked up he'll bounce back into jail for contempt. He felt strongly I should pay it for him and at least clear that. I can see the logic of that...he will not be able to pay it anytime soon ($500/month from SS is his income), and I know if I pay it he won't pay me back...but somehow the merry go round of bouncing into jail seems dumb...if I have a gift to give him that would be it...although he won't see it as the gift it is. Parents of the forum...what would you do? I don't want him to live with me during any kind of prolonged transition period...I travel for work, and even when home am out of the house all day, plus I have two teenage PCs who live with me half time (custody) and I don't want them to have to deal with him living in the house. So any kind of "live with me under my supervision and pay me back $25 or whatever a week" is not viable.
Scent of Cedar *
Well-Known Member
This is true, Echolette. I am not there, yet? But I know a mom who has six kids. Four of them are extremely successful. One of them is a partial difficult child. And one is a full-blown, practicing difficult child. This is what she says about him: "Out of all my kids, he doesn't have a pot to p*** in, or a window to throw it out of."
When she says it, she is a little miffed, but she doesn't get that "stop" feeling we all still feel when we are taking a measure of responsibility for what our difficult child kids do.
That is where I want to get to, too.
I think being able to see it as a possibility is a good beginning.
Cedar
Scent of Cedar *
Well-Known Member
I would pay it.
But Echolette...you see where that kind of thinking has taken me.
When you and I are healthier, paying a fine, reinstating a license, covering rent ~ none of those things will be an option. But we are where we are in the process of detaching. You have to do what you need to, to be able to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning ~ now, and ten years down the line, too. I think that is part of successful detaching, too. We finally get it that nothing we do creates the situation we intended to create (a fresh start for the difficult child) by helping.
It is a hard place to be. But I do know this: As I am freeing myself from carrying the guilt of difficult child kids around, it feels great.
We will get there, Echolette.
Cedar
But Echolette...you see where that kind of thinking has taken me.
When you and I are healthier, paying a fine, reinstating a license, covering rent ~ none of those things will be an option. But we are where we are in the process of detaching. You have to do what you need to, to be able to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning ~ now, and ten years down the line, too. I think that is part of successful detaching, too. We finally get it that nothing we do creates the situation we intended to create (a fresh start for the difficult child) by helping.
It is a hard place to be. But I do know this: As I am freeing myself from carrying the guilt of difficult child kids around, it feels great.
We will get there, Echolette.
Cedar
I'm a little confused Echolette.......it you pay the fine, is he immediately released or will he serve time for the more recent issue?
If it were me, I think I might pay it too, to give him a running chance to keep himself away from the law for now. However, I would make it clear what my conditions were..........and perhaps tell him this is his Christmas gift and you will never make that choice again.
If your son is anything like my daughter and many kids here, he will not be thinking at any point soon about his future and what he can do to make that better for himself, they don't seem to be able to "future think." But, you and I can and we know the ramifications of these kinds of issues.
If you pay it will that up your resentment level? Will it up your level of anger at him? Or will it simply be yet another fork in the road where you give him a chance at a better life which you can let go of and not dwell on? If it's the latter, I would pay it.
I believe we parents have to make these kinds of choices a lot with our difficult child's and as Cedar mentioned, they are easier once detachment is not an issue anymore, but while we are going through it, I think we have to measure each choice carefully and go with what our best instinct is.............if your son were older and disrespectful of you, I would have a different response, but under these particular circumstances, the big picture and the legal ramifications would have a big impact on my thinking and what I would be willing to do.
Remember, there is no right or wrong or judgement with whatever you decide.........you're the only one who knows what the right thing to do for YOU is. Sending good thoughts........
If it were me, I think I might pay it too, to give him a running chance to keep himself away from the law for now. However, I would make it clear what my conditions were..........and perhaps tell him this is his Christmas gift and you will never make that choice again.
If your son is anything like my daughter and many kids here, he will not be thinking at any point soon about his future and what he can do to make that better for himself, they don't seem to be able to "future think." But, you and I can and we know the ramifications of these kinds of issues.
If you pay it will that up your resentment level? Will it up your level of anger at him? Or will it simply be yet another fork in the road where you give him a chance at a better life which you can let go of and not dwell on? If it's the latter, I would pay it.
I believe we parents have to make these kinds of choices a lot with our difficult child's and as Cedar mentioned, they are easier once detachment is not an issue anymore, but while we are going through it, I think we have to measure each choice carefully and go with what our best instinct is.............if your son were older and disrespectful of you, I would have a different response, but under these particular circumstances, the big picture and the legal ramifications would have a big impact on my thinking and what I would be willing to do.
Remember, there is no right or wrong or judgement with whatever you decide.........you're the only one who knows what the right thing to do for YOU is. Sending good thoughts........
I understand your feelings. I do not know what I would do if it is of any comfort sometimes I wish my 26 year old gig was in jail. That way I would no he had shelter and food. I have a friend that has a son that has been in and out of prison his whole life. And he told me the only peacefull times he has is when he is in prison.
DDD
Well-Known Member
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
I have to admit I gave my difficult child a loan for the last $400 he had to pay on his probation fines. However he had already paid close to $1500 already and if he didnt have that last amount paid by the end of the month they could take him in for his entire sentence. He paid me back about half of it and I cancelled the rest of it as his Xmas present that year.
This year he is getting nothing but a pocket fishing pole I bought off of eBay. I got 3 of them...one for Tony, Jamie and Cory months ago. They cost less than 9 bucks including shipping. I also plan on making him a hat as soon as the wool comes in. I wont feel badly if he loses either one. I dont think a homemade hat will go for much on the black market. LOL
This year he is getting nothing but a pocket fishing pole I bought off of eBay. I got 3 of them...one for Tony, Jamie and Cory months ago. They cost less than 9 bucks including shipping. I also plan on making him a hat as soon as the wool comes in. I wont feel badly if he loses either one. I dont think a homemade hat will go for much on the black market. LOL
Echolette
Well-Known Member
It is actually quite hard to figure out what the action consequences are! His public defender told me that she usually does felonies and so is not really conversant with the various ins and outs of cases at his level, and also that she herself would not be the one in court with him. My friend the PD also said that he is not fully conversatn with the rules at this level, and also that the rules had gotten stricter about a year ago after a "reveal" article in the city newspaper, so even what he used to know he doesn't know. Soo......my impression is that if no one (ha! that was good! I typed "I" 3x, but there are other people who could post bail too!) posts bail, then he will be in prison for 20 days minimum, till Jan 5. In the middle of that 20 days (Dec 30) he has a court date. If he doesn't have $1500 to pay off a previous plea bargain, the judge will make a decision on that--additional jail, time served, probation, whatever, I do not know.
If some one does post bail he can get out on Dec 26 (10 days served) and go to court on the 30th for whatever decision the judge makes that day.
But no one actually seems sure.
That is crazy, right? That no one knows??? Even highly competent controlling me can't get to the bottom of it...another lesson in detachment. I can't control the prison system.
I told him yestarday that I was not planning to post bail...lot of distressed sputtering on his end, and we ended by him saying he would find some one who actually knew the ins and outs and consequences. I agreed to talk to that person should they exist.
I told him I was thinking of HELPING him with the $1500. I asked how much he had in the bank (in the last 2 weeks he has told me$1100, $200, and this time zero). He gets $490 or something for SSI the first week of the month. I asked how he would pay me back and he said he would give me his bank card and ID and I could control his account till he paid me back. I asked what he would do about housing and he said he would go straight to the one "help" location I've been trying to get him to. I asked about caseworkers (he said yes) and taking his medications (yes). Lotta yesses. He will do all for about 3 days, I suspect. Of course he can cancel his bankcard or tell them it is lost.
We shall see. I won't be in court with him because I was taking the other 3 PCs and some of their friends to the mountains with my SO, and we've all been looking forward to it. He isn't allowed to negatively impact all. My ex is committed at work, so he won't be there either. No parents to talk earnestly with the PD and try to sort things out while difficult child sits by passively. That tugs at my heart, but is just as well.
I bought him socks and underwear from the commisary--I didn't realize I could do that until others mentioned it in posts here, so thank you for that.
Thats all. Imma gonna need to post frequently to get through this....
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Echolette
Well-Known Member
Huff, I understand that feeling. I first started having it when my difficult child would have acute psychiatric hospitalizations...the first time was so awful, so horrifying...all those crazy people and my sweet boy in there with them, in laceless shoes with no belt...and then....as it happened over and over...I started realizing that I didn't have to worry while he was there, couldn't control his days...and it felt kind of good. My SO had a severely mentally ill mom, and his parents split when he was 8, so from 13 on he was her caretaker, picking her up when she was naked down by the 7-11, driving up and down the highway looking for her when she was missing, unpacking her house and bags when she would pack up to "move". He was the one who put words to it for me, told me to rest while he was in the hospital, let some one else take it on. He (difficult child) was younger then, and he really was my responsibility.
One of my first reactions when I found out he was in jail was that I wouldn't have to worry about walking down the street and seeing him sitting on a mat with a cup and a sign (which I have seen on several occasions), or showing up at my office...once I came to work and he was asleep on the couch in my office reception area, dirty and smelly like any street person. That was horrifying. Jail is less horrifying. He won't die a drug induced death there. And he won't freeze to death. And I won't see him. He won't ring my doorbell. He does call 5 x/day....but that is small potatoes, and I don't ahve to answer. I have a limit of twice/day.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Echo, I think all of us have helped our kids out a little, although they don't really learn from it or appreciate it and, if the deliberately bad behavior continues, many also cut their kids off cold. When my daughter was drug using she got into a serious car accident that was her fault and she was sued for $14,000. We had stopped putting her on our insurance and it wasn't even our car she was driving plus she was over 18 so it became her debt. Long after she stopped using drugs she still owed the money so her father reluctantly paid most of it. BUT...remember, she had already made a decision to cut ties from her drugged lifestyle and was by then doing very well.This is always hard.
Because you have to life with your decisions, maybe pay this but make it clear to him that it is the last $$$ you pay to get him out of trouble and then, if it were me, I'd stick to it. My daughter was using anything she could inhale or snort and even inject until we stopped giving her a cushy place to sleep, the certainty (in her mind) that we would never really put her out of the house, and lots of love and nurturing. In response, she stole from us, lied to us constantly, and put herself at extreme risk. I thought she'd end up in jail or die. She was doing meth and weighed maybe 80 lbs. and looked like death warmed over and refused any treatment.
We did make her leave, but she got her brother to take her in. However, and I think I already talked about her time with him, he is a very rigid, self-righteous person and told her that if she lit up one cigarette and he found out about it, he'd toss her out in the cold and not feel bad about it. And she knew he meant it. She hated living there, but she got clean. And, during that time, she had to walk back and forth to work (at Subway) and that was the only money she had. Nobody helped her. She quit. Did she quit because her "soft place to land" had been pulled out from under her? She says it was both a personal decision because she was sick of herself and also because she did not to end up homeless and alone. When we first made her leave, she was FURIOUS with me and told me she'd never speak to me again, but as she got clean and time went on, it didn't last and we are very close today and she is a great, GREAT young adult.
Helping drug users doesn't work. Jail can sometimes keep them off the street, give them free meals and a place to sleep. What is better? Jail or out on the street or in our homes causing mayhem for us and our other loved ones? I personally would not allow this adult child back into my home, but that is another personal decision you have to make. But it will not help him to allow him back. It may make YOU feel less guilty, but it won't make HIM any better unless he is asking, very seriously, for help to change.
I would not help him contact the girlfriend. She is not his friend. She is just one of his "friends" (as I called the people my daughter hung with) who is helping him accept that drug use is ok. Better for him if she is gone. One less druggie in his circle.
Hugs to you. As I type, I remember and the feelings come back and it is just so hard. After Daughter left to live with Son, which I knew would be very unpleasant for her, I cried for three weeks wondering if I'd done the right thing, remembering her words of hate toward me. But according to my daughter, it saved her life and made her seriously think about what she was doing and it took her away from her pushy drug using peers, who wouldn't leave her alone even when she WANTED to quit. She would get threats and roughing up from them...drug life is not pleasant. Apparently she owed some druggie money and didn't have it and he was threatening her life. I'm not sure jail is more dangerous than using drugs..your child is still hanging out with dangerous people and there is no protection on the street. My daughter left the state when she went to live with her brother, and that was a huge help. The dangerous peers didn't know where she was and she had a chance to start over.
Because you have to life with your decisions, maybe pay this but make it clear to him that it is the last $$$ you pay to get him out of trouble and then, if it were me, I'd stick to it. My daughter was using anything she could inhale or snort and even inject until we stopped giving her a cushy place to sleep, the certainty (in her mind) that we would never really put her out of the house, and lots of love and nurturing. In response, she stole from us, lied to us constantly, and put herself at extreme risk. I thought she'd end up in jail or die. She was doing meth and weighed maybe 80 lbs. and looked like death warmed over and refused any treatment.
We did make her leave, but she got her brother to take her in. However, and I think I already talked about her time with him, he is a very rigid, self-righteous person and told her that if she lit up one cigarette and he found out about it, he'd toss her out in the cold and not feel bad about it. And she knew he meant it. She hated living there, but she got clean. And, during that time, she had to walk back and forth to work (at Subway) and that was the only money she had. Nobody helped her. She quit. Did she quit because her "soft place to land" had been pulled out from under her? She says it was both a personal decision because she was sick of herself and also because she did not to end up homeless and alone. When we first made her leave, she was FURIOUS with me and told me she'd never speak to me again, but as she got clean and time went on, it didn't last and we are very close today and she is a great, GREAT young adult.
Helping drug users doesn't work. Jail can sometimes keep them off the street, give them free meals and a place to sleep. What is better? Jail or out on the street or in our homes causing mayhem for us and our other loved ones? I personally would not allow this adult child back into my home, but that is another personal decision you have to make. But it will not help him to allow him back. It may make YOU feel less guilty, but it won't make HIM any better unless he is asking, very seriously, for help to change.
I would not help him contact the girlfriend. She is not his friend. She is just one of his "friends" (as I called the people my daughter hung with) who is helping him accept that drug use is ok. Better for him if she is gone. One less druggie in his circle.
Hugs to you. As I type, I remember and the feelings come back and it is just so hard. After Daughter left to live with Son, which I knew would be very unpleasant for her, I cried for three weeks wondering if I'd done the right thing, remembering her words of hate toward me. But according to my daughter, it saved her life and made her seriously think about what she was doing and it took her away from her pushy drug using peers, who wouldn't leave her alone even when she WANTED to quit. She would get threats and roughing up from them...drug life is not pleasant. Apparently she owed some druggie money and didn't have it and he was threatening her life. I'm not sure jail is more dangerous than using drugs..your child is still hanging out with dangerous people and there is no protection on the street. My daughter left the state when she went to live with her brother, and that was a huge help. The dangerous peers didn't know where she was and she had a chance to start over.
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Echolette, you appear to be negotiating the detachment highway well. I think as we learn to let go more and more, the decisions we make concerning our difficult child's get easier and don't cause us as much internal struggle. You are getting the facts, considering how much you are willing to help and what you are not willing to do and accepting the outcome as something he has to deal with as the result of his choices. I think we get better and better at that as the process of our letting go of control and learning to accept what is really kicks in.
I think it's good that you won't be at court with him.
As we do here, you are letting go and seeing where you were trying to hold on............being able to see that gives us the power to change it, and that is really the nut of it. Good job.
I think it's good that you won't be at court with him.
As we do here, you are letting go and seeing where you were trying to hold on............being able to see that gives us the power to change it, and that is really the nut of it. Good job.
PatriotsGirl
Well-Known Member
Jail was the best thing that happened for my daughter!! She was in for five months while pregnant...
Sent from my SGH-M919 using ConductDisorders mobile app
Sent from my SGH-M919 using ConductDisorders mobile app
Echolette
Well-Known Member
I am still struggling with all of this. The decision to not post bail is ultimately sitting fine with me, thanks in part to the words of wisdom from the forum, which helped me see my own path more securely. A few days ago I decided that I would, in fact, pay his fines/restitution, whatever it is. And that felt OK to me too. I used a little of the money my mom left me, and my ex (and difficult child's dad) said he would split the rest with me. Today I started to walk over to the court house to pay...and I started feeling crazy, panic stricken, angry, overwhelmed. I called my SO to ask him to come pick me up on the street (this is NOT common behavior for me), then hung up before he answered. When he called back I lied about why I had called =--although he knows I was planning to pay, and has said several times that he will support me whichever way I decide.
I started crying on the street, overwhelmed with frustration, much of which I directed at "the system". I was sure I would get to the courthouse and not have what I needed (no one on the phone seemed able or interested to help me sort it out). Cashier's check? certified check? cash? credit card? some weird form of ID for me or David?
OR that somehow it would go unrecorded, since the PD had several times emphasized that I had to get a receipt and get it to her....and also because I was PRESENT when he paid $200 towards the restitution in Sept, and that appears to have not been recorded. So I felt I was going through a pointless exercise in frustration and wasted time, and that I might well burst into tears or a rage of frustrationat the courthouse...and so I turned around and walked home again, feeling ill.
I think I cannot bear to pay his restitution, even with his expressions of appreciation, commitment to the future, and commitment to pay me back.
Because I've been here before, in so many ways, so many times...the waste of effort on my part. The attempt to tmake things better that never works. The wasted resources.
I am so full of resentment and pain and anger over all the years of that that it is boiling down to this one small point ($1500, supposedly to be paid back....I guess really not so small). It feels like I am being eaten from inside. I cannot bear to be taken advantage of.
When he called today to chat, as he has every day from jail, he thanked me for being there for him...I don't think he meant the money, although maybe. I said, "I don't feel like I''ve really been there, but I"m glad if you feel supported" and he said "a lot of people here have no one, I'm glad I have some one to call."
Which was sweet.
But he also told me he went to the commissary and bought candy (he is a candy fiend). And I said...how did you ahve money for that? and he said he had some cash on him when he was picked up, which went into his account.
Huh.
I don't know if that is feasible or not. But it really really sat wrong that he was buying candy while I was figuring out how to come up with $1500. I know that is stupid, right? $3.00 for a reeces thingy won't drop in the bucket of $1500...and yet....
and then I feel cheap. and I think...jeez, if I hadn't overspent for Christmas, would I be so stressed about the resitution? Maybe he is suffering because I am not financially responsible enough?
And then I snapped at my 15 year old in the kitchen, and he said "sorry for sharing my thoughts out loud", and I realized how the long arm of difficult child and the stress he causes me affects every breath I take, and all my relationships.
Ugh.
I think Iwon't pay. It is giving me ulcers to put myself in that position. We live in the US...he won't have his hand cut off, he'll just have to spend more time in jail/be on probation/get a record. For a little while I thought it made sense to pay so he wouldn't have a crimnial record, but guess what???? HE'LL HAVE ONE SOONER OR LATER ANYWAY.
This is just me venting.
Any thoughts or feedback to get me out of my tasmanian devil spin would be apprectiated.
Echo
I started crying on the street, overwhelmed with frustration, much of which I directed at "the system". I was sure I would get to the courthouse and not have what I needed (no one on the phone seemed able or interested to help me sort it out). Cashier's check? certified check? cash? credit card? some weird form of ID for me or David?
OR that somehow it would go unrecorded, since the PD had several times emphasized that I had to get a receipt and get it to her....and also because I was PRESENT when he paid $200 towards the restitution in Sept, and that appears to have not been recorded. So I felt I was going through a pointless exercise in frustration and wasted time, and that I might well burst into tears or a rage of frustrationat the courthouse...and so I turned around and walked home again, feeling ill.
I think I cannot bear to pay his restitution, even with his expressions of appreciation, commitment to the future, and commitment to pay me back.
Because I've been here before, in so many ways, so many times...the waste of effort on my part. The attempt to tmake things better that never works. The wasted resources.
I am so full of resentment and pain and anger over all the years of that that it is boiling down to this one small point ($1500, supposedly to be paid back....I guess really not so small). It feels like I am being eaten from inside. I cannot bear to be taken advantage of.
When he called today to chat, as he has every day from jail, he thanked me for being there for him...I don't think he meant the money, although maybe. I said, "I don't feel like I''ve really been there, but I"m glad if you feel supported" and he said "a lot of people here have no one, I'm glad I have some one to call."
Which was sweet.
But he also told me he went to the commissary and bought candy (he is a candy fiend). And I said...how did you ahve money for that? and he said he had some cash on him when he was picked up, which went into his account.
Huh.
I don't know if that is feasible or not. But it really really sat wrong that he was buying candy while I was figuring out how to come up with $1500. I know that is stupid, right? $3.00 for a reeces thingy won't drop in the bucket of $1500...and yet....
and then I feel cheap. and I think...jeez, if I hadn't overspent for Christmas, would I be so stressed about the resitution? Maybe he is suffering because I am not financially responsible enough?
And then I snapped at my 15 year old in the kitchen, and he said "sorry for sharing my thoughts out loud", and I realized how the long arm of difficult child and the stress he causes me affects every breath I take, and all my relationships.
Ugh.
I think Iwon't pay. It is giving me ulcers to put myself in that position. We live in the US...he won't have his hand cut off, he'll just have to spend more time in jail/be on probation/get a record. For a little while I thought it made sense to pay so he wouldn't have a crimnial record, but guess what???? HE'LL HAVE ONE SOONER OR LATER ANYWAY.
This is just me venting.
Any thoughts or feedback to get me out of my tasmanian devil spin would be apprectiated.
Echo
Reading your post Echolette, brought me back these last two years where I have been in those shoes you're presently wearing quite a few times. That back and forth, doubt/certainty/doubt/certainty is exhausting ............and yet, it seems that most of us here go through that for awhile. From where I am now I think perhaps it is simply a part of the journey as we stop whatever enabling we've been doing and begin our own detachment process..........and the in-between parts of that are where you find yourself now.
I wish I could say that one could avoid all of that mind blowing inability to conjure up the appropriate and healthy response, but I don't think there is a shortcut through this. These are our children, for all the insane choices they make, we love them, we want to protect them and keep them safe and when confronted with choices where we feel we may adversely impact their lives or futures, well, of course, we hesitate, we worry, we churn inside and cry. But, ultimately we make a choice. Whichever way we go, we'll doubt that choice too.
I believe that with each choice we strengthen our resolve to hand over the reins to the author of the discontent..............to the creator of the mess............to the degree that we continue in that process, making the hard choices to allow natural consequences to take over, we arrive, a little battered, somewhat broken at detachment and then ultimately, acceptance.
Replace the should of helping him with the word COULD. You could help him and you could choose not to. When we fight what we believe we should do, it is a hard fight indeed. But, that 'could' gives you the option. There is no right or wrong answer to these questions, we all go through this in our own unique ways............taking the right or wrong out of it helps too.
Your reaction to paying the $1500 seems to be saying, "No, I don't want to pay it." Then don't pay it. You have a lot of resentment, which we all know a lot about.............we've all felt that.............I was sick with resentment about what I had given my daughter.............and little by little, at my own pace, I stopped. And, I went through similar battles with myself along the way.............until one day, I had stopped all enabling................completely.............and was only left with what I WANTED to give, which for a time was NOTHING.
It's a process Echolette, it's a hard process too. Like no other. Those moments of despair you describe are pretty crummy, I know..............but each choice will get easier as you move a long, whatever you decide to do...........hang in there, we're with you...........we get it............we've been there...............you're not alone.
I wish I could say that one could avoid all of that mind blowing inability to conjure up the appropriate and healthy response, but I don't think there is a shortcut through this. These are our children, for all the insane choices they make, we love them, we want to protect them and keep them safe and when confronted with choices where we feel we may adversely impact their lives or futures, well, of course, we hesitate, we worry, we churn inside and cry. But, ultimately we make a choice. Whichever way we go, we'll doubt that choice too.
I believe that with each choice we strengthen our resolve to hand over the reins to the author of the discontent..............to the creator of the mess............to the degree that we continue in that process, making the hard choices to allow natural consequences to take over, we arrive, a little battered, somewhat broken at detachment and then ultimately, acceptance.
Replace the should of helping him with the word COULD. You could help him and you could choose not to. When we fight what we believe we should do, it is a hard fight indeed. But, that 'could' gives you the option. There is no right or wrong answer to these questions, we all go through this in our own unique ways............taking the right or wrong out of it helps too.
Your reaction to paying the $1500 seems to be saying, "No, I don't want to pay it." Then don't pay it. You have a lot of resentment, which we all know a lot about.............we've all felt that.............I was sick with resentment about what I had given my daughter.............and little by little, at my own pace, I stopped. And, I went through similar battles with myself along the way.............until one day, I had stopped all enabling................completely.............and was only left with what I WANTED to give, which for a time was NOTHING.
It's a process Echolette, it's a hard process too. Like no other. Those moments of despair you describe are pretty crummy, I know..............but each choice will get easier as you move a long, whatever you decide to do...........hang in there, we're with you...........we get it............we've been there...............you're not alone.
Sorry it's been awhile. The challenge got moved to our county jail to start serving his sentence there. Sounds like they are giving him another 30 days instead of prison. I can go visit tomorrow and we'll see what he says. He still wants work release but I don't know if he has a job. I know his dad left the car impounded and he won't get a license for a long time. I sound horrible but even though I missed him during the holidays it was less stressful than worrying about his partying with his friends and fighting with him. I hope and pray that 2014 is better.
