Good morning all, I am so humbled and thankful for you thoughts and kind words.
Can you ask the social worker to set in on the first few mandated phone calls and help prepare the children before the call and process it after the call? Can the children just tell their mom "I'm not ready to talk right now."
The calls are pretty random. So that would probably not happen. The social worker was not aware Tornado is still incarcerated, the judge denied her release and mandated she be released from custody to residential treatment. That’s a good thing and also not so good because it is forced. I hope underneath it all, she succeeds at getting clean. I am seeing through dealing with CWS that social workers are overloaded with cases to know or even remember details like this as far as Tornado still being in jail. She called yesterday asking for money on her account. Ugh. Then again last night as we were eating at a restaurant. I didn’t pick up. The kids of course ask “Who’s that?” I am honest with them. “Don’t pick up, Tutu.” We have a no cell phone at the table rule anyway, so that was a no brainer.
The courts always tend to favor the biological parents no matter how difficult they have been. I have no idea why. The children have no voice at all it seems. I have heard many versions of this story.
I think that it’s the system giving chances and covering legalities. On the slim chance that a parent will come clean and walk the straight and narrow, yes this is great for all involved. I think we are all here predisposed to count all the negatives, because of our own experiences with our waywards and how traumatized we have been and are. It is difficult to imagine putting a child through that.
And in almost all jurisdictions grandparents are considered inferior guardians or not considered at all.
That is changing because the foster system is overwhelmed with kids going through this.
When we had the kids ten years ago, we received no financial help. I don’t know if that was a shoddy social worker or the system. At least now I am getting some aid. Okay rereading this it sounds crass, but finances definitely play into caregiving capability. Hubs and I quickly went through savings ten years ago. I am mindful that I am nearing retirement age.
Any child in custody of the system has an attorney or eligibility for same, as I understand.
Guardian ad litem. As I battled the issue with my eldest grand I pulled that card. The social worker was not responding. So I talked with the GAL and she was appalled, she had already had a conversation with the social worker that he should be removed for his and his siblings safety. That shook up things pretty quickly but also comes at a cost. I have to reserve that option as my “ace in the hand”. I hate to play politics. But this is the State I’m working with and don’t want to be labeled as “that foster grandparent”. So, I have to weigh my options carefully.
There can be a real callousness and indifference to the feelings of children by the people entrusted to protect them and their rights.
I think that is why older foster children have it so rough. At a time in their lives when they are trying to establish identity and have some control over their lives there is the system. What is hard for them is the intrusiveness of it all. What a change from “What happens in the family, stays in the family”. That is an unhealthy state to be in, but to go from that to having to talk with so many strangers, counselors, evaluations, plus process triggers and trauma. It’s exhausting. I keep reminding them that we can turn that negative thought of intrusion into the fact that they have a team behind them trying to help them develop healthy ways to deal with what they have experienced. That there are adults who care about them and their future. That they can call or talk to someone if they need to, rather than bury everything inside.
To "test" they said, his attachment. How traumatizing this was to him and to me. My son at 22 months old understood it was an abandonment. While he recovered, it was hard on both of us.
I am sorry you and your son went through that, Copa. In reading books on trauma, there were some pretty outlandish theories out there. One example was “holding therapy”, where foster kids were forced held until they relinquished, forced to speak of their trauma. That’s abuse. I have read about trauma affecting babies, that though they have no recollection of what happen to them, their
bodies do.
I think what this social worker is proposing is similarly traumatizing for your grandkids, seeing them as property of their parents, not souls to protect. I would feel exactly as do you.
I am wrestling with this as the system is bogged and slow. There are foster parent groups and a warmline that I am relying on as well. These parents have long term history dealing with issues that will help guide me.
I say somebody besides you needs to advocate for the kids because you are so easily dismissed by the social worker, as having your own interests at stake. This infuriates me.Of course this is not true. The system victimizes you too, in this way. Thank goodness you're not permitting it. Are there pro bono legal services for you too?
I have no legal services available as yet, but will look into it. We had a therapy session yesterday and the counselors are concerned about the phone calls and reunification plan. They asked if they could speak with the SW, of course I agreed that would be good. I am journaling and keeping record of the issues I am dealing with. I took a respite from that to collect myself, but need to get back on track.
Tornado a place to shower and do some laundry brought tears to my eyes. “My” Hubs did the very same thing for Son on many occasions.
That was Rain, Albie, our eldest and his favorite. It was so hard for him to see her self inflicted sufferings. Extreme abuse from boyfriends. She is still with an abusive man. It was and is hard. I am sad that he passed as he did, with no resolution in sight. He worked all of his life to provide for us, he grew up with domestic violence and vowed his kids would live better, only to witness our two, our grands, go down that dark path. I am sorry you have been through the same. It definitely becomes a divide in our relationship.
I too don’t think a month is enough time to bring about a change in Tornado. I am sorry if this is pessimistic, but I think at this point Tornado is probably thinking only of getting out and getting back to the lifestyle. I know Son, who was in jail for longer than Tornado while awaiting a plea several years ago, showed his head had only BEGUN to clear after weeks and weeks, and he was not as entrenched as Tornado in meth.
I agree, Alb. She may be wrong about rehab timeframe, I don’t know. We all know the propensity for relapse is real. Right now through phone calls I am seeing her first motivation is to get out of jail. She complains about being locked in a cell, getting fat, her cell mate rambling nonsense. The focus seems to be on her discomfort. No real remorse over choices.
The courts and social workers are almost ALWAYS going to favor reunification.
I have learned this is the law. I have yet to read on “When reunification goes wrong” from the systems perspective, but have read of foster parents grieving over children reunified only to be mistreated, neglected and even deaths have occurred. Unacceptable. My grands slipped through the cracks years ago, their parents completed service plans for a short term but there was no follow through. My intake SW told me he saw records of my calls. My thinking is that foster parents have to jump through hoops to ensure safe homes and that the kids are receiving proper medical, dental, psychological care. I would like to know what the plan would be for reunification. How long would the parents be monitored? Not long is my experience.
I think you are spot-on in getting the grandkids’ counselor involved— and perhaps a guardian ad litem involved as well?
The GAL is my ace, as I have expressed. But I do think I will email her and let her know my concerns. Keep her apprised. The counselors plan to speak with the SW.
I try to remember that moments of clarity can happen at the most unlikely of times, and I dearly hope this is that time for Tornado
Me too, Alb, me too. I think it will take an awful lot of soul searching and counseling to get her head on straight. I have not “seen” Tornado for a long time. The fact that she had her kids so young, smoked pot heavily, how has that stunted her growth, her cognitive skills? Then the meth abuse which effects brain function altogether. It will be a tough battle for her.
If not, I am so sorry you are called once again to be the one to toe a line that is not of your making. You and your grands are in my prayers, dear Leafy.
Thank you Albie. We are dealt with all kinds of challenges in life. I keep telling myself that life is a series of adjustments. I was stagnating a bit, contemplating son going off to college and my being an “empty nester” Huh! What a surprise. I grieved the notion of that freedom on this path with my grands, but am experiencing an awakening to the task. They are helping me as much as I am them. I have to keep my ducks in a row. There is really no time for me to fade into oblivion and numb myself. I ha e a propensity to become somewhat of a hermit, burying myself in yard work. (Admittedly I miss that and have to find a balance!)
I didn't address your real stressor, the reappearance of Tornado. I think this is because I feel just so protective of you. It's hard not to have our guard up about her. In these last years this has been a revolving door.
Thank you Copa for your insight. That is a huge factor in my emotional and mental well being. I had a set back last year during the holidays with her calls from jail. I ventured to the edge of the rabbit hole and became depressed. Overwhelmed. It was hard telling her she couldn’t come home. Especially with her saying that she would just “end up on the streets” if she couldn’t. Although I was resolved, it ate away at me. She is my daughter, I love her, but in her state of being, she is dangerous. I am more resolved to not let her nonsense infiltrate my psyche. Especially with my grands involved. She is calling daily, sometimes twice a day and ends each call with “Don’t forget to put money on my account” Why do I need to do that? She has said in the past that it is for shampoo, conditioner, chocolate. But I have absolutely zero knowledge of this. In fact I just got off the phone with her. She does not take responsibility for her part in her kids troubles. Her response to my statement that we are working on the kids healing was “Still?” I told her they are not ready to speak with her on the phone to which she retorted, “I don’t want to hear anything negative or anything about the past....” Huh. Of course, I do hope that Tornado will come round. I must stay present, and not get anxious about the “what if’s” on either end of the spectrum. What will be, will be.
I know that she can't be any different right now due to all of the drugs she ingests, but still. She is responsible. Even if she can't be, she is.
You are right, Copa, brain damage and all, she is responsible. Right now, I hear an addict babbling. I know she could access drugs in prison if she chooses. Only time will tell.
While you can't permit that those kids be used and abused, again and again, you must give the appearance of collaborating and deferring to Child Welfare. You can't be in the position of seeming to withhold them from their mother, in a way that would jeopardize your custody.
This is true. CWS website and literature touts reunification as the end goal. It is a card game I must play.
This way, the decision to force the kids, to expose them to harm, will squarely reside with the social worker, for the time it takes you to mobilize third party experts to advocate for children.
Thank you Copa. It is unfortunate that I have to strategize approach, but this is how the system works.
I would write the names of the kids, the date and the times. The jail logs phone calls by inmates. All of Tornado's calls can be verified. I would also ask the children's teachers to document any behavior or moods that come up, in writing.
All great counsel. I have my work cut out for me. All while dealing with issues at home. My grands are slowly coming round, but they are still testing, triggered, wounded.
That said, I would defer to the social worker. If she/he decides that the children must speak to their mother, or do anything else that you believe to compromise their welfare, I agree with Albatross: involve their therapists (actually I'd do that now.) And think about a guardian ad litem, and/or the court-appointed attorney for each child.
Check and double check. Therapists notified (and noticeably horrified). Contemplating emailing GAL, so she is aware of what is happening. Keep her informed and engaged.
New Leaf, even though I don't respond much to your posts my heart is always with you. The road you travel is one of the most difficult I've read on here. My vision of you is of such a strong balanced woman, someone I would like to become.
Oh gosh, Deni thank you for your kindness. I don’t feel that strong, I am battling my own issues in dealing with this to tell you the truth! I have put on a bit of weight and am working on that. Still trying to define myself.
I wonder if you could contact CASA in addition to working with the grands therapists to help with the social worker, and most likely the next, and next social worker. I have no doubt you are strong enough to stand up to a social worker without other support though.
Yup, got their counselors involved. Tippy toeing with diplomacy with the SW for now. If it gets sticky, I know where to get support and answers. Thank God for the helpline. Seasoned foster parents at phone calls reach to help navigate the system.
The reality was he was not interested in or exercising his visitation but instead was tying up all of mine and my sons time with switches, changes, and subsequent no shows.
Ugh. What a mess you went through. It’s sad that some parents don’t see the damage they do to kids, virtually using them as weapons to spite the custodial parent.
But luckily to show the extent of the issues at that time I had a 6 month calendar documenting all of the phone calls (no less than 4 a day) for the switches, and the mostly no shows.
That is a good example for me to follow in documentation.
It must be so difficult for you to separate Tornado's issues from your grands. But just like you know you can't rescue her, neither can your grands rescue her.
That has been my soul search and the quandary I am in. It seems a double standard, that our battle as parents is to detach from our addicted drug using adult children, but my grands are supposed to remain “attached”? How confusing for them! I am hoping that the therapists and GAL can come up with some parameters to protect my grands. If
they wish to remain no contact, that should be honored. My granddaughter in her youthful wisdom said “As long as my mom is still on drugs, I don’t want to talk to her.”
For them, just posing the question about contact is painful. They have been abandoned by both parents for
three years. My daughter, posting selfies on Instagram of her partying, posing as a bandit with a bandana on her face, writing things like “f&?$ feelings”
her kids saw this stuff. Rubbed in their faces. Their mother proudly exclaimed to me that she kept in touch with them through Instagram. It’s awful. What more do the kids need to endure?
Wish I could change things for you, I pray for you and wish you peace.
Thank you Deni, and I for you. Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.
Is it possible for you to record the phone calls from jail (especially if she speaks to the children)? You could have those transcribed as building a case in favor of the children. I agree with the others on enlisting the help of a third party for the grands.
I don’t know about recording. I would have to read up on that. But, the calls are recorded from prison, which reminds me to be cautious of what I say. Right now I am focusing on honoring the kids wishes, without jeopardizing my caregiving status. I think it is reasonable to expect their mother to enter rehab and receive therapy before engaging with the kids.
I was wondering if the grands, could write letters to tornado in jail as a type of reunification (to demonstrate participation). They can be honest letters of their true feelings. They can detach with love, just as we can.
I spoke with my grands about that. Right now, I am taking baby steps, waiting on word from the counselors. What’s difficult is that my daughter is still suspicious of
anything I say. I am thrown back to an awful episode with her screaming at me that “these are my kids, you have no say!” This was after years of trying to help. I know meth amongst many other things makes users paranoid.
This bodes me to keep record of her calls. I don’t know how far she would go towards getting her kids back, as far as accusing me. In retrospect, she has a terrible track record of neglect and excuses. It’s always someone else’s fault.
Perhaps you could set boundaries, such as letters only, no phone calls until she is 60 days sober, or some variation thereof. That clears you from abuse and the grands have a choice if they want to open the letter.
That is a good idea JMom. I want there to be a clear plan for the kids emotional welfare. I want
them to be a part of that plan. The hard part is that this is a whole different veering into their healing. Taking the focus off of self discovery to the monkey wrench of possible reunification. I am trying not to think negatively, maybe navigating through this is an essential part to their healing. That caring adults will step in to help them. Who knows? I can’t protect them from circumstances. They have to learn just as we all do to love themselves and make good choices.
It gives them the opportunity to set boundaries for themselves, which we have all experienced can be a healing practice. I might even go as far as giving the grands the choice to have it read first by you and black out manipulative parts.
A good plan, thank you. That is part of the journey in giving the kids the opportunity to have some control in decision making.
Has Tornado completed rehab in the past? My son went 5 times. He said the first one for me, the rest for a place to stay for 30 days. He didn't need rehab to get clean, he needed to decide he was done with drugs (his words, not mine).
No rehab and much denial. Tornado has always been a tough kid. Rebellious and unappreciative of opportunities she had growing up. I don’t know if there were co-existing mental issues because I am thinking that she experimented with pot at a young age. She barely had a chance to grow up, pregnant at 15. Her boyfriend abusive and controlling. She has a lot of baggage mixed in with addiction. Sigh.
It might be a good thing for her to be in jail, rather than rehab. Both places offer food, shelter, clothing and a place to get sober. One of those places don't require YOU to be responsible in any way for her. I know it's terrible to admit, but I was always relieved to have a break while he was away at "church camp". That was the lie I told his younger sisters (they forgave me).
I am glad she is in jail, JMom. It is a good thing. She complains about it being uncomfortable and hard. Our prison system is overcrowded, overwhelmed. She won’t get treatment there. But, she won’t have the same exposure to drugs. Although I know that they are available there too. At least I know where she is, that she is alive. I have no contact with her while she is out on the streets. Same for her older sister. That is hard to deal with, but necessary due to choices to be with dangerous men, street gangs and drug dealers. There has been an outbreak of violence here in the islands. Senior citizens attacked and robbed. Criminals in stolen vehicles targeting older folks in broad daylight, with onlookers present. It’s awful. Meth has a strong foothold in the islands. There are many homeless encampments. I don’t think there is enough manpower to police the drug dealing and related crime.
I don’t plan to go out on the limb to jeopardize my safety. There are moments of guilt, where I feel that at least if I saw my daughters periodically that may have an effect on them. But that is covered over by the reality of their situations. It is unsafe for me. I give them to God and hope they will find their way. In all honesty that is coupled with grief that I have no control over their choices.
I will offer warm, fuzzy thoughts and prayers for "reunification" of Tornado and her sober self. Sorry, that was snarky. I couldn't help myself, I feel protective of you and those babes! I really do pray for her to get sober and healthy.
Me too, JMom. I hope she “seizes the day” so to speak. Not being snarky, cautiously optimistic and hopeful, but not holding my breath either. She is my daughter and I do want her to see her potential
without drugs. That can’t come at the cost
again of her kids. They have been through enough. I intend to try my hardest to help them through this. It will be another test for all of us. I have to define my role as grandmother, caregiver, mother, judiciously, with caution as I am on this battleground. I have to stay vigilant towards self care as well as looking after my grands. That can be tough as each day brings up new challenges. My grands are slowly getting better, but still test the waters. The normal teen stuff is fraught with underlying trauma based behaviors and acting out. Then there is the laundry piles, housework, bills and work. I’m exhausted just reading that! Oh well, such is life. One foot in front of the other. I am trying to stay present and prayerfully walk this path. Thank you all for your good words, prayers and help. It has been a reflective morning responding here. Peace and love to all.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy
