Father Jailed for difficult child's School Refusal

[CrazyinVA]

Sadly, the system is not set up to provide services to people that don't seek them, or to track down every parent of every child who is going astray. There is not enough staff, nor enough funding. I know how hard I had to fight to get services for Youngest that she was entitled to by law ... I was in front of the juvenile judge and social services over and over trying to get help, sometimes just with getting her to school ... what about the parents that don't or can't navigate those waters? Maybe these parents were in that place. They're told to do something, but have no clue how to go about it or what resources to tap into.

It's a sad situation all around. The system is broken, no doubt about it. I think the laws are there for a reason ... you are legally resonsible for getting your child to school and can be held accountable for his/her truancy.. it's to catch the parents that DON'T care (and we do know those, even if none of us here fall into that category). Sadly, those of us that DO care risk getting caught up in that, too. That's why I learned ....CYA CYA CYA.

 

[DazedandConfused]

I want to address the "the school needs to keep them there" comments.

So, what do you propose?

Chain them to the desk?

Have security handcuff them and put them in isolation?

Have the teacher physically restrain them?

Start putting razor wire on top of school fences like a jail or prison?

What????

I do not know all the facts regarding this case. And if you think you are going to get all the facts from a news article, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you. All the news services care about is getting people to read the story. Sensational sells.

Do I agree with jailing parents? In most cases-no. Frankly, if parents can't convince a kid to stay in school, the school will be hard pressed to make a case also.

Believe me, I understand the frustration that a responsible parent feels when their difficult child just refuses to go. Like a previous poster wrote-CYA. Get all your ducks in a row and document.

 

[slsh]

Dazed - I'm getting the same question from thank you's school. The hard cold fact is, the school is responsible for thank you's safety during school hours (*especially* in my humble opinion any sped student). Because he is freely walking out of the building, in front of staff and after letting them *know* he is leaving, they are still responsible for his safety. So yes... restrain, handcuff (ok, not really - it's tempting) but for heaven's sake do something more than say "that's not a good choice". Call a truant officer. Call the police. Whatever it takes.

In the meantime, my kid is roaming the big city with zip supervision because the adults, caretakers, and staff in his life are unwilling to make a stand and force the issue. If I didn't have to work to pay off his medical bills, quite frankly *I'd* be standing at the door and kicking his little posterior right back in - economics bite.

Since this girl was delivered to school by parents, and since there was a *court order* that she graduate, I think school absolutely should've called police and *she* should've ended up back in front of that judge. I still say school bears responsibility here.

 

[DazedandConfused]

Hey Slsh,

I would agree that the school is responsible for a students safety. However, unless a student is already in a physical altercation, any school is going to be extremely reluctant to use force.I have to tell you, the vast majority of parents vehemently oppose any kind of physicality used on their child.

And, school districts are terrified of lawsuits. Breaking up a fight is one thing, physical force to keep a kid from leaving school is quite another. Plus, having been attacked by a student, myself, who was attempting to vacate school premises, I'm not willing to be harmed because someone's kid doesn't want to stay at school.


As far as the police, I don't have a problem with that. If the school is suppose to call them, then they should and suffer the consequences if they don't. When it gets to that point, most students don't care if the police is called, anyway. It's more of a school CYA. That's what my experience is anyway.

 

[klmno]

Dazed, I understand what you are saying, but let me ask this- if sd's can't stop the kid, can't use physical force due to fear of legal action, and the school staff doesn't want to instigate the problem turning into a physical altercation- then why does everything think the parent can do this? The school would be the first to call and report the parent if they did. I tend to suspect that this, too, goes back to sd's not having appropriate punishment and control over kids at school (all they can do is call police, it seems) and authority being taken away from parents little by little and being told how to raise their kids, then when it doesn't work, blaming the parents. Really, it has left parents and the sd just pointing the fingers at each other. in my humble opinion.

 

[amazeofgrace]

hmmmm I could see this being me any day now, I keep getting threats of the school taking me to court for negligence, even when I have had the cops here escorting my son to school!

 

[Sara PA]

There are two parties at fault here -- the girl and the judge. Neither a school nor a parent can force a teenager to do something she doesn't want to do. You can't lock 'em in anywhere, there are laws against that. The kid should have gone to school but she didn't. The judge -- particularly a juvenile court judge -- should have enough sense to not waste the taxpayers money by putting the father in jail (which will likely cause him to lose his job and put his family in a financial crisis) because the teenager wouldn't go to school. If it was so important to the judge that the girl get a degree, then put her in detention until she gets it. But, truth be told, school isn't for everyone and some 16 -17 year olds just shouldn't be there. And one doesn't have to have one's GED as soon as one turns 18. Some people do much better if they grow up more before they try the school thing again, even for night classes and a GED.

by the way, Dad was released but the girl still has to pass the math section by July or he'll have to go back to jail. Or so the judge implied. Judge is still a jerk. This is just a p****** contest and the judge doesn't want to lose to a kid.

 

[Marguerite]

Thanks for that extra link, Sara. Interesting comment - someone claims that the judge's wife is on the school board. Shouldn't he recuse himself?

From what I can glean from this, the judge began proceedings about this girl when she was 15. Now in Australia you can't hassle a family over truancy issues once the child is legally able to leave school and get a job. Even if the kid is enrolled in school, truancy doesn't come into it. If the kid fails to turn up to class then they will fail the school year, which for a lot of jobs does not look good on the resume.

I gather that when she was 15, she was living with her father. Whether she was or wasn't, he was at that time her legal guardian so he is the one the judge went for.

Time passes. The daughter has a baby which in my opinion really complicates matters and should have been seen as perhaps some valid reasons for time being missed from school. The girl moves in with her mother - surely at that point the judge should have switched targets or perhaps changed direction?

I agree that the school is equally culpable - to the extent that frankly, neither the school nor the father should be hassled over this. C'mon, judge - hassle the girl! SHE is the one responsible. If she is legally old enough to drive a car, legally old enough to have a baby, legally old enough to get a job - then she is legally old enough to take responsibility for her education.

When the father clearly was doing all he could and circumstances beyond his control meant that his daughter was still skipping school, then I think the judge should back off from blaming the father. Similarly, if the school is doing all it can to make her attend and she just walks out, then what more can anyone do? Yes, they could call the police - who would do what?

The purpose of punishment is to act as a deterrent and to teach. If the behaviour being punished could not be helped, or is out of anyone's control, then punishment is clearly inappropriate.

It seems to me that this judge should wake up to himself and change direction. Forcing the girl to complete her schooling NOW, under the current circumstances, is reactionary and chauvinistic (in the traditional meaning, not as in "male chauvinist"). The judge simply is determined to stick to his guns instead of considering that now the situation has changed considerably, perhaps a different approach might be more productive?

What is the judge's aim? To get the girl to graduate? Is that aim still appropriate? And if it is (which I doubt - surely she has the right to put her education on hold if she chooses) then what is the most effective way the judge can get what he wants?

It certainly isn't jailing the father.

Marg

 

[susiestar]

MArg,

Here in the US there is no age where you are "legally" old enough to have a baby. If you have one at 13 or 14, you may find yourself with a social worker overseeing things, or in a group home or foster family, but at no age are you considered "legally" old enough to have a child. As the father or mother.

I fully agree that you cannot make a teen do ANYTHING. But I also think that many many older people remember being "respectful" of their mothers because when they got home mom would "whup" them. Or dad would. I think many of us have heard this many times. Heck, it is actually a LAW in my state that parents have a DUTY to physically discipline our children using whatever means work, including a belt. A police officer SHOWED me the law, and a friend who is a lawyer working with juveniles says that it IS still on the books. Of course, this law won't stop CPS from taking your kids if you DO physically discipline your child - and they will TELL your kid this!!!

We went many many rounds with health related issues with the schools. the one we are in now (the POOR elem school - who gets everything last) is the best one to work with. They stay on top of the kids, they care, they KNOW which families are doing what they can, which are using it as an excuse. I have been awed and amazed - for several days when I was having problems with MY health and was up all night, the school just marked thank you excused because they KNEW he would ONLY be absent if HE were too ill to come to school.

At the elem school we were previously at, under the current principal, we would have been charged with truancy - though there is NO state law saying this is possible after only 3 days missing.

Our middle school wanted a note from a specialist 75 miles away saying that he had SEEN Jess EACH time she missed from a migraine!!!! Our 2nd car is not up to the trip - we would have had to spend the entire day in the city, or husband would have lost his job, just to meet this requirement!! That is IF (and a GIANT IF the doctor would have worked her in for a migraine!!). This is part of the reason we are homeschooling her. I foresee homeschooling thank you for middle school also, though we will make that judgement call when the time comes.

I think the entire situation is farcical. Putting hte dad, who was doing his best, in jail just gives the teen (and any other teen who can get this kind of ruling in place for truancy) a tool to manipulate her parents into doing whatever they want. Gee, maybe this backfired. I WILL be sending a letter to the judge. Maybe this judge can take Wizard for a couple of months, then lets see what his ruling are!!! Anyone else vote for making the JUDGE responsible for the teen??? I know it won't happen, but I can dream!

 

[Marguerite]

I was thinking the same thing, Susie - if the judge had to actually give it a go himself. If only someone could say to him, "Your Honour, I'm not quite sure exactly what methods I am permitted to use, not how to implement them, in order to get my child to attend school AND actually make progress academically. Could you please take her for a week with me observing, so you can show me how I should be doing my job?"

It's a technique mentioned in a book I read years ago, "The Art of Coarse Acting", where an actor who is not too keen to try a director's brilliant idea can say, "Um, Cyril, I'm not quite sure exactly how I should 'ride the blow' when Fred hits me in the fact with the broken bottle. Could you please demonstrate this for us?"

I also agree - the idea of having to get a medical certificate for each absence is bad enough if you live in a place like Australia where our medical costs are heavily subsidised. But where you have to pay a fortune, PLUS have to travel great distances, PLUS as you said, try to get a squeeze in appointment at zero notice, PLUS what you didn't mention which is, how do you get a kid with migraine sufficiently vertical for long enough to achieve this?

We were fortunate with difficult child 3, that we had some semblance of a local GP at the time he was missing so much school, plus the school themselves held the truant officers at bay for us because they knew it wasn't malingering.

Here, they are slightly more reasonable with medical (at least to begin with) - you get three days' grace; after three days' illness you MUST have a medical certificate. This is not only for school, this is also for work. However, they can at any time give you a 'show cause' letter requiring you to get a certificate for every absence.

It really isn't fair.

Marg