Feel like there is more than addiction
- Thread starter tryingtobestrong
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tryingtobestrong
Active Member
SO he just called from the treatment center. Was there since Friday- detox and then yesterday and today. Told my husband he was going to get his bags and leave tonight. I came in just as I heard my husband repeat that.... I lost it. I told him if he leaves I am done! DONE! I have no clue what will be now. I blocked his number on my cell phone. I dread the thought of Christmas day and him being alone. I told him come April he will need to find someone else to co-sign or move because I am not doing it.
I asked him what his job will think.... Yo Yo with the FMLA all the time instead of getting the treatment he needs he takes a few days and then goes back to work only then 2 weeks later having issues again...
I guess him doing sober living was a lie.
I hate my life. I hate this. I am so worked up now. I told him it was his addiction telling him to leave that he has this now...
My husband just remains calm and say nothing. I am the one who looks like the as*! Of course, this is how it was the last 24 years!
I don't know how others let go because it kills me inside but yet this is killing me too.
I asked him what his job will think.... Yo Yo with the FMLA all the time instead of getting the treatment he needs he takes a few days and then goes back to work only then 2 weeks later having issues again...
I guess him doing sober living was a lie.
I hate my life. I hate this. I am so worked up now. I told him it was his addiction telling him to leave that he has this now...
My husband just remains calm and say nothing. I am the one who looks like the as*! Of course, this is how it was the last 24 years!
I don't know how others let go because it kills me inside but yet this is killing me too.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Are you paying his rent or any portion of it?
Why is it your business to worry about his Christmas? My son is homeless. On good nights he sleeps in a truck. Actually, I think he went to a party on Thanksgiving.
Really. This is a grown man. If he chooses to drink he will drink. If you choose to not be around him on Christmas it is your choice. Yes, you will be a little bit sad and/or worried, but this is part of life.
He is telling you over and over that he wants to drink and he does not want to stop drinking. What can you do?
Good.
You have 3 to 4 months now to get strong so that you follow through with this.
The first thing I suggest is to post every single day on various threads. This is how you get strong. You have a great deal to offer others. This is the best way to change.
I would consider an Al Anon or Codependents Anonymous Group. If you cannot find one locally there are meetings online.
Many people recommend the book by Melody Beatty, Codependent No More.
Then there is psychotherapy. Kaiser Hospital, if you are out West, has programs the focus on Codependency, as I understand.
I have had tremendous support from spiritual direction in my faith.
Most important:
What do you like to do?
What gives you pleasure and happiness? If you don't know how could you learn?
What are hobbies that are meaningful or could be? How could you develop these hobbies into passions?
Are there close friends in your life? How can you develop and nurture these relationships?
What do you do to relax and chill?
What are some goals that could make you happy to achieve?
What kind of boundaries could you set so as to not get drawn into your son's life?
How can you think about him in such a way that you are not triggered?
How can you calm yourself and return to yourself, when you begin to get frightened about him and tell yourself stories that agitate and scare you?
I have found that meditation and prayer and physical activities like walking, dance, gym, martial arts, Pilates, etc. are very helpful to me. Other people get massages, etc.
If you have not read it the article on detachment here on this site is a place to start.
What I am trying to suggest is that there needs to be some choice on your part to take responsibility to change yourself.
Changing yourself means not focusing on your son and limiting the extent to which you interfere and try to control his life. I know he needs help but our children do not accept our help except on their terms. They will take our help and keep doing what they like to do, and use our help to do more of the very thing we hate.
Changing yourself means making a beautiful life for you so that you feel good, feel centered, feel healthy, feel in control and feel effective as a person.
Let your son be. It is not your fault. But it is time to stop.
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toughlovin
Well-Known Member
Oh Trying..... I am sorry. I know how hard this is I have been through this so many many times. It is heartbreaking. I really hope you can find a good parents alanon meeting....for me that has been the single most important thing that has helped me figure out how to live my life for me at least a good part of the time, if not always.
You cannot take this personally. This is about him and his addiction. He is not doing this to you, or to disappoint you, or anything to do with you. He is doing this because he is addicted to alcohol and is not ready to give it up yet....he may think he is, he may at moments be ready to, and so at moments he may be telling you the truth for the moment.... but then the addiction takes over and he loses all resolve. That is the addiction which is stronger than everything else right now.
I get your anger, frustration and disgust. I really do. I feel that a lot of the time with my son too. I am not sure those things really help him though. Getting clear on your boundaries are good.... detachment is good but ultimately he has to figure this out and you cant do this for him. You really can’t as much as you want to.
TL
You cannot take this personally. This is about him and his addiction. He is not doing this to you, or to disappoint you, or anything to do with you. He is doing this because he is addicted to alcohol and is not ready to give it up yet....he may think he is, he may at moments be ready to, and so at moments he may be telling you the truth for the moment.... but then the addiction takes over and he loses all resolve. That is the addiction which is stronger than everything else right now.
I get your anger, frustration and disgust. I really do. I feel that a lot of the time with my son too. I am not sure those things really help him though. Getting clear on your boundaries are good.... detachment is good but ultimately he has to figure this out and you cant do this for him. You really can’t as much as you want to.
TL
His use is his choice. That's nothing to do with you. Having said that, he's made it clear that he's not going to change. So your life is not going to change unless you change it. That will take strength and courage on your part. But you have no choice if you don't want this any more. That's your choice. Stay caught up in his self-destructive cyclone or get out of it for your own safety.
I repeat the AA prayer all the time. You cannot change his behavior.
I repeat the AA prayer all the time. You cannot change his behavior.
tryingtobestrong
Active Member
He ended up deciding to stay. He sent me an email during the time they have access to it. He said that he will stay and take it one day at a time.
As hard as I try to move past this, I feel I am just drawn in because of the lease, because I am the one he goes to all the time, etc. I have tried to be so strong and feel like I have no support.
Someone mentioned not being around him on Christmas. I won't be because he lives over 1500 miles from me alone. I fear Christmas eve/day and New Years eve/day... I guess because most places will be closed and he will be just sitting alone. I know it is his choice not to go to sober living, not to reach out to friends, not to go to AA, etc. I don't get why I can't just move on and not care!
He still has not received the Vivitrol shot which he was approved for.... I ask why and get that he doesn't know, that if he wanted to drink even with getting the shot he could, etc.
My parents even offered to help him with his finances if he committed to go to sober living just for 3 months and he refused. He says he wants to have a girlfriend again and can't if he is in sober living... I know they tell them not to start relationships in early recovery and I have reminded him of that .... I get "having a girlfriend is the only way I feel somewhat adequate- otherwise I feel worthless and even have worse self esteem".
My daughter and I are going on a bus trip this Sat.... The day his counselor would call and have a phone meeting with us and my son to discuss the afterplan..... My husband works and I will be away so the meeting won't happen. I just want to enjoy the day with my daughter. I do plan on turning my phone off.
My son is his own worst enemy.
As hard as I try to move past this, I feel I am just drawn in because of the lease, because I am the one he goes to all the time, etc. I have tried to be so strong and feel like I have no support.
Someone mentioned not being around him on Christmas. I won't be because he lives over 1500 miles from me alone. I fear Christmas eve/day and New Years eve/day... I guess because most places will be closed and he will be just sitting alone. I know it is his choice not to go to sober living, not to reach out to friends, not to go to AA, etc. I don't get why I can't just move on and not care!
He still has not received the Vivitrol shot which he was approved for.... I ask why and get that he doesn't know, that if he wanted to drink even with getting the shot he could, etc.
My parents even offered to help him with his finances if he committed to go to sober living just for 3 months and he refused. He says he wants to have a girlfriend again and can't if he is in sober living... I know they tell them not to start relationships in early recovery and I have reminded him of that .... I get "having a girlfriend is the only way I feel somewhat adequate- otherwise I feel worthless and even have worse self esteem".
My daughter and I are going on a bus trip this Sat.... The day his counselor would call and have a phone meeting with us and my son to discuss the afterplan..... My husband works and I will be away so the meeting won't happen. I just want to enjoy the day with my daughter. I do plan on turning my phone off.
My son is his own worst enemy.
Elsi
Well-Known Member
Because he your son. Because you love him.
I don’t know that ‘moving on and not caring’ is something I could ever do, or even aspire to. The most I am trying to do is just not let it consume my whole life.
One thing I do sometimes is set aside a specific time of the day to worry. I may journal during this time. And when thoughts intrude at other times, I push them away and tell myself I can worry about that during my worry time, not now.
I’m glad he decided to stay. I hope he reconsiders sober living. I know to him three months may sound like a long time to wait to have a girlfriend, but it’s really nothing! He has his whole life ahead of him for all that. The young are so impatient.
But he’s still there. Taking it one day at a time. And that’s all we can do, too.
Hugs.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I was also cringing that he said this. It is a serious problem if you cant be without a partner. Lots of people are alone, survive well and dont use drugs. I agree that this is a very serious issue.
To be able to be happy, you have to be okay on your own. Nobody else can make somebody else happy.
To be able to be happy, you have to be okay on your own. Nobody else can make somebody else happy.
Tired out
Well-Known Member
Yep. that's why. We had a girl live with us for a few months (she had an abusive boyfriend she needed to get away from) . we let her stay here while she saved up to get an apartment. When she moved out (she got an apartment) I was glad and haven't thought much about her. She was a friend of ds. I don't know if she eventually went back with abusive boyfriend or continued on her own. we gave her the chance to get away and get a new start --something her parents weren't willing to do --dson said it was because the they didn't want her to move in with the boyfriend in the first place.
Anyhow..no dna between us and I had no problem with her leaving--don't get me wrong, I liked her and didn't mind her being here, she was absolutely no problem at all. But my son...I think of him daily, hourly? He doesn't deserve me to worry about him. But. I. do. I am still his mom. I always will be.
Well not sure I agree that its because he's yours and she wasn't. I hear what you're saying. But I think the point of detaching is to let him have his own life while you have yours. My sons are my sons and I love them as such. But that doesn't mean that I am consumed by thinking about them. Yes, I think about them daily. But not hourly like I do about the autistic son who lives with me. Maybe once a day is enough when they have their own lives? I don't know if there's a right number. If he were 50 how often would you think about him? How often do you think about your sibs who you love? Your older kids? Grandkids? Detaching is a process and your son is young and in trouble. Presumably if he were in Harvard studying medicine at 21 you wouldn't be thinking about him quite as much? Just trying to get you to think about detaching.
toughlovin
Well-Known Member
Of course you care..... you cant move on completely... he is your son and you love him. when our kids are suffering we feel it. Thats natural. The key is to be clear on boundaries and to be clear on what is his and what is yours..... and to build your own life to live in spite of what is going on with him..... so that your total focus is not him and how he is doing or not doing. The worry and fear and pain wont completely go away and you wont completely forget but it can at least some of the time be on the back burner and other things can be in the forefront.
II think it will be good when this lease is up.....because really it would be good if you could say we will help you with sober living but not another kind of apartment.
II think it will be good when this lease is up.....because really it would be good if you could say we will help you with sober living but not another kind of apartment.
mentalcase
New Member
Tryingtobestrong - I can totally relate. If I thought I had to live with the crazy crisis situation we are in right now forever I would lose it. But I try to focus on just what's happening right at this moment. My 17 year old is alive. He still keeps in contact with me. He is at someone's house and not on a park bench. For today, I can be ok with that.
Take really good care of yourself. Something that also has helped me alot is going to open AA/NA meetings and hearing some good recovery. I need that. I need the hope. You seem like a very smart and loving person. I've learned I can help alot of people (who actually want my help and benefit from it). I tutor and I sponsor a couple young adults in AlAnon.
Right now, I can't help my son. This is something he'll have to figure out on his own or with the help of ex addicts or counselors. I've just accepted the fact that it's not going to be me. And when he is ready- that's the sucky part about free will.
I am so sorry for all of us who go through this. It is incredibly painful. I haven't just moved on, but I've recognized that nothing is going to change if nothing changes. And right now I am keen on changing me and my reactions which means giving him the dignity to fall. Hugs to you.
Take really good care of yourself. Something that also has helped me alot is going to open AA/NA meetings and hearing some good recovery. I need that. I need the hope. You seem like a very smart and loving person. I've learned I can help alot of people (who actually want my help and benefit from it). I tutor and I sponsor a couple young adults in AlAnon.
Right now, I can't help my son. This is something he'll have to figure out on his own or with the help of ex addicts or counselors. I've just accepted the fact that it's not going to be me. And when he is ready- that's the sucky part about free will.
I am so sorry for all of us who go through this. It is incredibly painful. I haven't just moved on, but I've recognized that nothing is going to change if nothing changes. And right now I am keen on changing me and my reactions which means giving him the dignity to fall. Hugs to you.
tryingtobestrong
Active Member
I have never been a strong person. I hate confrontation. My son has manipulated me for many years. His father, my husband never really connected with him or did anything with him. He was bullied and I know hurt by his fathers actions, so I felt sorry for him. I gave in to him for so many years.
I know I have to say no I will not pay for that, no that is your responsibility, but then I get manipulated. He twists his words around and makes it look like I am the one that has the problem.
I don't want to be in this life anymore.
I told my husband to take over so we will see.
Today, my son left treatment because our insurance refused to pay for his residential treatment. I am now looking at a very large bill due to the insurance feeling like he didn't need to be in residential treatment to get grounded again. His team of doctors pleaded his case and still the insurance is saying no. He relapsed worse than ever, he was self harming, he is extremely depressed and this is what they do. The next relapse may not have a recovery for an ending. He was told it is a death sentence to go back to living alone.
Still is refusing sober living. A therapist was suggested for him to see along with his recovery coach. We will see.
I hope I can be strong. I have never been a strong person. Never.
He is not my youngest and no I am not having issues with an empty nest. He has always been a bull headed strong willed child/adult now. He lives across the US from me so I am not even near him.
I know I have to say no I will not pay for that, no that is your responsibility, but then I get manipulated. He twists his words around and makes it look like I am the one that has the problem.
I don't want to be in this life anymore.
I told my husband to take over so we will see.
Today, my son left treatment because our insurance refused to pay for his residential treatment. I am now looking at a very large bill due to the insurance feeling like he didn't need to be in residential treatment to get grounded again. His team of doctors pleaded his case and still the insurance is saying no. He relapsed worse than ever, he was self harming, he is extremely depressed and this is what they do. The next relapse may not have a recovery for an ending. He was told it is a death sentence to go back to living alone.
Still is refusing sober living. A therapist was suggested for him to see along with his recovery coach. We will see.
I hope I can be strong. I have never been a strong person. Never.
He is not my youngest and no I am not having issues with an empty nest. He has always been a bull headed strong willed child/adult now. He lives across the US from me so I am not even near him.
Elsi
Well-Known Member
Trying, I think you are selling yourself short. You have survived this far. It sounds like things have been difficult for a long time. But here you are, still trying. That is strength.
I don’t like confrontation either. And I also struggle with guilt over the past and sometimes feel the need to ‘make up for’ their dad’s past actions. It’s counterproductive, I’ve learned that, but I get the urge.
On the medical bills: why are these yours? Are you automatically on the hook for them because he’s still on your insurance, even though he is an adult? Or is he considered to be financially responsible for his own medical bills? Did you sign something that obligated you for these charges? I would not pay anything you are not legally obligated to or that doesn’t impact your own credit rating. I know we want to help save them from their own mistakes - avoid losing the apartment, protect their credit, keep the car from being repossessed - but it’s a losing battle. And it does not help them learn. I would let go of feeling responsible for anything you are not legally obligated to do or pay.
I am sorry he has relapsed again. The bottom line is sobriety has to be something he wants. He has to want it enough to do whatever it takes, regardless of the insurance or financial situation. If he wanted it badly enough, he would do sober living if that’s what it took. Mine won’t do sober living either. It’s hard. I’ve had to let go of constant worry over things I can’t control.
Please be easy on yourself. Don’t keep telling yourself you can’t be strong. That’s not true. You’re here. You’re trying. You’re strong. And you’re not alone.
I don’t like confrontation either. And I also struggle with guilt over the past and sometimes feel the need to ‘make up for’ their dad’s past actions. It’s counterproductive, I’ve learned that, but I get the urge.
On the medical bills: why are these yours? Are you automatically on the hook for them because he’s still on your insurance, even though he is an adult? Or is he considered to be financially responsible for his own medical bills? Did you sign something that obligated you for these charges? I would not pay anything you are not legally obligated to or that doesn’t impact your own credit rating. I know we want to help save them from their own mistakes - avoid losing the apartment, protect their credit, keep the car from being repossessed - but it’s a losing battle. And it does not help them learn. I would let go of feeling responsible for anything you are not legally obligated to do or pay.
I am sorry he has relapsed again. The bottom line is sobriety has to be something he wants. He has to want it enough to do whatever it takes, regardless of the insurance or financial situation. If he wanted it badly enough, he would do sober living if that’s what it took. Mine won’t do sober living either. It’s hard. I’ve had to let go of constant worry over things I can’t control.
Please be easy on yourself. Don’t keep telling yourself you can’t be strong. That’s not true. You’re here. You’re trying. You’re strong. And you’re not alone.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Many of us are not strong people. I am not a strong woman.
No parent feels that they did a great job, when they are confronted with miserable adult children. Everybody here, is in the same boat, your boat. We are all of us in it with you. And not one of us were perfect parents while our kids were young.
Almost all of our kids do this. When he is being defensive my significant other does this to me, and I have a really hard time knowing which way is up. Join the club. In our group you are one of us.
Did you guarantee payment? I do not see how you are responsible. If you are responsible for this bill, if you guaranteed payment, I would appeal this determination. If you did not sign, I do not see how you are responsible to pay.
But the thing is, if your son is depressed and harming himself, by definition he needs to be in inpatient hospitalization or residential. Somebody is not documenting correctly. This can be fixed.
If your son is depressed and self-harming (by that I assume he is cutting) he should qualify for a dual diagnosis program. Do you think he is at risk of seriously harming himself?
Nor have I been. Ever.
tryingtobestrong
Active Member
Unfortunately, I did sign the guarantee because I felt in NO way this would not be covered. He was drinking non-stop, was at the er, passed out, his recovery coach knew all of this. He was at this treatment center before and they offer a 10 day program for those that have been there and have relapsed to come back and get grounded again. Our insurance paid for the entire stay prior and with him getting worse there was no doubt that they wouldn't pay...
So he approved for 5 days in detox but didn't need that and once he was released to inpatient residential they left the insurance know and the insurance only told them 4 days later that they are not paying for that because they felt he didn't need it. All of his doctors were aware of his self harming, the purchase of a hand gun, the depression, the alcohol use and went before the insurance to plead his case. They still denied it. I am filing an appeal. I will not let this go that I am responsible. He would have died had he not stayed there for these last 5 days to get some counseling and more in depth recommendations going forward. This place is a dual diagnosis facility. Yes, I do feel he was at serious risk of harming himself. I am not sure if he is at this time. Usually when things don't go his way he pulls that card or when he is drinking nonstop.
So he approved for 5 days in detox but didn't need that and once he was released to inpatient residential they left the insurance know and the insurance only told them 4 days later that they are not paying for that because they felt he didn't need it. All of his doctors were aware of his self harming, the purchase of a hand gun, the depression, the alcohol use and went before the insurance to plead his case. They still denied it. I am filing an appeal. I will not let this go that I am responsible. He would have died had he not stayed there for these last 5 days to get some counseling and more in depth recommendations going forward. This place is a dual diagnosis facility. Yes, I do feel he was at serious risk of harming himself. I am not sure if he is at this time. Usually when things don't go his way he pulls that card or when he is drinking nonstop.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
It sounds like you have clarity and a plan with respect to the insurance. And it sounds like for the moment your son is stable.
Now is the time to begin to focus on you.
Your son will continue to be him. There will be no easy fixes. This sounds like baseline for now. The question now is what will you do for you? What kind of changes do you need to make so as to build up your strength and to understand your limits and maintain them so that when this kind of thing happens again it will not be so depleting?
Now is the time to begin to focus on you.
Your son will continue to be him. There will be no easy fixes. This sounds like baseline for now. The question now is what will you do for you? What kind of changes do you need to make so as to build up your strength and to understand your limits and maintain them so that when this kind of thing happens again it will not be so depleting?
