He is playing me yet again.....

[toughlovin]

Ugh.....well he is good at pulling at my heart strings and playing me and he just did it again. He called the other night admitted he relapsed again when a friend visit, sounded like he was getting on track. Called me today sounded pretty good but my antenna was up and he did not do what he said he was gong to do. I am pretty sure he is drinking again.

It is time for me to get tougher again and cut him off. I suspect he will get himself kicked out of the current sober living and I think I have to prepare myself for letting him be homeless again.

Dang I hate this. But I know there is nothing I can do about it. He has to make his choices and figure it out.

I am sick and this does not help me feel better.... In a week we leave for a weeks vacation with our daughter and I am going to find a way to really enjoy it in spite of whatever my son is doing.

 

[Carri]

Dang I hate this. But I know there is nothing I can do about it.

Isn't this the truth. Focus on your vacation and enjoy time with your daughter. You both deserve it!

 

[toughlovin]

Well he is on the streets tonight.....

 

[InsaneCdn]

Sending cyber hugs, TL. There is no easy way to deal with this process.

 

[New Leaf]

Well he is on the streets tonight.....

Oh, TL, that is disappointing, I am sorry.
You are strong, and your strength is in him, he just has to find it.
All of the things you taught him are there.
All of the love you give him is there.

He will have to find his purpose and meaning, the way he chooses. If it is any consolation, I think it is a positive thing he has at least tried sober living. He is making mistakes, and hopefully will learn and decide sooner than later, a better way to live.

I hope you feel better TL, all of this and being sick, too. UGH.

Go and have a wonderful vacation with your daughter and hubs. It is good to get away and breathe, laugh and relax.

(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[Kathy813]

I'm so sorry, TL. It does seem to be a never ending cycle.



~Kathy

 

[pasajes4]

Those darn heart strings

 

[toughlovin]

It sure does seem never ending Kathy. He does seem to want to end the cycle but keeps screwing it up and he doesn't know why. He has been in touch with the folks at the IOP and they have offered for him to come by today for something to eat and a nap.... We did give him bus fare last night to get there. I don't know I just keep being torn up by this and now I am worried because I haven't heard from him yet today. I hate hate hate this..... I really don't want to go back to dealing with him being on the street!! It gives me a stomach ache just to think about it.

 

[InsaneCdn]

He has way more resources available to him now, than when you started this "homeless" journey. He knows where they are, and is prepared to access these resources. This in itself is a huge step forward.

It's just not fair that the process has to be so... extreme.

 

[toughlovin]

Well he just texted me that he got to the IOP where at least he can get something to eat and hopefully they will help him figure out his next step. They told him yesterday no matter what don't drink and he did sound sober last night. So if he stayed sober last night that is a step forward. Why does this recovery have to be so hard?

 

[toughlovin]

I am glad to say last night I learned he is safe. He is back in treatment and they called me. The question now is will he be willing to do it their way and take their suggestions to will he continue to want to do it his way? My feeling is that at this point he needs to really make staying sober is number one priority over everything else.

While he was on the beach the other night he had all his stuff stolen including his computer and his bike. This was a huge blow to him and I felt very bad for him. But then I thought maybe that is what it takes for him to really realize that what he is doing is just not working for him. That is my hope anyways.

Anyway I slept better last night at least knowing he is safe.

 

[Nancy]

I'm sorry TL. Please post over in SA also, I'm sorry you left. There may be members there that have followed your story and would like to lend support. I rarely come to this forum and would not have seen it if it wasn't the first post on the forum.

I don't know how you keep positive like you do through all his relapses. I wish they could find some way to fix the part of their brain that controls addiction, I would have my daughter in front of the line. It's a amazing how we sleep better when we know they are somewhere safe, even if it's jail.

 

[toughlovin]

Thanks Nancy... I will go post over on SA. I used to only follow SA since that is our main issue but then I kept finding people whose kids has substance issues but they posted on PE. It is very confusing I find. So I just started following the timeline so I could follow both. I kind of wish those with SA issues posted more on that forum.... And then PE wouldn't be so full of SA issues and maybe it would be clearer for everyone.

 

[Copabanana]

TL I am sorry this is so tough. Reading along, I think the vacation is just the thing. This is his work to do. To involve you so that you can feel his pain is not right. If you need to pull back, so be it. That may be what he needs to be able to feel in the power in himself. Or not. His choice. As long as it is you who suffers, he feels he can do what he wants.

As far as forums, I think we each of us connects with certain people or an approach on a forum, and gravitates there. As we change we change forums. I think it is not necessarily about where we belong. I feel it is a question of where we choose to be.

COPA

 

[InsaneCdn]

I kind of wish those with SA issues posted more on that forum.... And then PE wouldn't be so full of SA issues and maybe it would be clearer for everyone.

TL... the problem is kind of like getting a (?many?) diagnosis for our kids. Where does one line start and another one end?

SA is clearly for substance abuse. But it's different dealing with a 15 year old, than an 18, or 21, or 30 year old... each age group has different approaches that work.

PE was/is intended as an extension of General - which covers non-adult kids. General hasn't been as busy, lately. People with younger kids aren't finding us right now. As Copa said on another thread. PE seems to have become a forum for dealing with adult kids who are choosing to make bad choices.

A few of us are in a totally different situation from what happens in General, SA and PE. Kids who may or may not be officially adult, but who don't necessarily have the capacity to BE adult. Where there may be less a factor of "choice" and more the result of a complex mix of diagnoses (and missed ones), where dealing with one part of the problem may make another part worse. Medication issues - from getting medications compliance to trying to find something that actually works.

The point I'm trying to make is that there really isn't a clear line of demarcation between the forums. We overlap - rightfully so. Which makes it harder to know where to post and when...

In some ways we are as complex as our kids!

 

[Nancy]

Thanks Nancy... I will go post over on SA. I used to only follow SA since that is our main issue but then I kept finding people whose kids has substance issues but they posted on PE. It is very confusing I find. So I just started following the timeline so I could follow both. I kind of wish those with SA issues posted more on that forum.... And then PE wouldn't be so full of SA issues and maybe it would be clearer for everyone.

I understand. I think a lot of members began posting in PE partly because they were invited to post there. That's fine but it does water down the SA forum and perhaps there will be a time when SA as it's own forum is not useful. I don't know of many substance abuse addicts that don't have multiple issues. Substance abuse is almost never the only issue. One of the biggest reasons why the SA forum was began was because substance abuse was not being addressed in forums with other issues, it got lost.

You know when I started posting here my daughter was classic ODD. All through her growing up years we had serious problems with her that had nothing to do with substance abuse. Then when she got to the age where substance abuse was an issue, it no longer seemed important for me to post about her ODD, the ODD turned into something much different. It was the elephant in the room that no one talked about. It was almost as it she was an addict in waiting, you know what I mean. I think your son was much like that also, no matter what you did or didn't do he was an addict before he took that first drink/drug.

 

[InsaneCdn]

That's fine but it does water down the SA forum and perhaps there will be a time when SA as it's own forum is not useful.

For quite a number of posters, some form of addiction is the primary issue being dealt with. Not that there aren't other issues, but often they are either hidden by the addiction, or the addiction can create symptoms of all sorts of other potential problems. It is difficult to deal with many of these unless you know what this person is dealing with before the addiction came into the picture. So, when the hot-button issue is addiction, SA is a very valuable forum. I would hate to lose it from the board (even though it doesn't apply at all to my situation).

Then there are the posters who are dealing with a child (or multiple) where substance abuse is part of the picture, along with other challenges, but the primary issue is the relationship between parent and child - abusive toward parents, stealing, not fitting in, not working... some of which are side-effects of addiction and some are not. Generally, these appear to be adult children who are making bad choices. Sometimes tough love works. Other times, it's just important to preserve our own sanity and resources. It's another valuable forum. People who post on SA will have some good advice for people on PE and vice versa. But it's not the same situation.

It helps to categorize the threads. Makes it easier for those who come behind us. But the number of active posters is down, which means some of us have experiences and voices that are useful in multiple forums.

 

[Copabanana]

Substance abuse is almost never the only issue

Yes. But there is a time when it needs to be for the parent to learn how to respond. I think that is what Insane means by saying that we are as parents so variable and have so many needs, because it is us who change and as we do we seek out different counsel, different approaches.

I began on PE. It was very useful to me. To learn that I did not have to fix everything. It was neither my responsibility nor within my power.

To me, this proposed new forum would fit the bill. Suzir's, Insane's sons and their stance towards their imagined futures with respect to their sons, fits what I believe my best response would be. Yet as I am now, I feel incapable. I need to build that parent. She does not yet exist.

It was almost as it she was an addict in waiting, you know what I mean. I think your son was much like that also, no matter what you did or didn't do he was an addict before he took that first drink/drug.

You know, my adopted son's birth parents, both of them had poly-substance dependencies and were to die of AIDS as a consequence. My son always had issues in school due to drug exposure and anxiety, I think, related to his first two years in orphanages.

Several times in the past couple of weeks my son has said to me something like this: Mom, isn't it something that given who I am and where I have been, that I am not a hardcore drug addict?

At first I balked. Because to me has always been my son. I see his life as me, what we have been together, where we have gone. To him, he has been traveling through the life of his birth parents because he has felt as marked and defined by that, or more so, than by his life with me. He sees himself to have been stigmatized, damaged by their behaviors towards him in utero. And he has been walking that walk, to my despair and frustration.

While I can understand it abstractly, I have a hard time emotionally.

I am beginning to hear him. It is something that he has chosen to not use hard drugs and to heavily restrict marijuana use in the recent months. I did respond to him this week: son, maybe we did a good job after all you and I. Was it ego strength on his part, my son's? Or was it by accident? Or something else? And now, he is choosing to build upon that. Decide he has a strength, and defining it as such.

I do not think genetics or disability or diagnosis or history determines behavior. I know this sets me apart from nearly all of us here. I believe it is a choice. And because it is a choice, other, different choices can be made.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

where substance abuse is part of the picture, along with other challenges, but the primary issue is the relationship between parent and child - abusive toward parents, stealing, not fitting in, not working

This is a good description, Insane.

Where the parent needs to learn to protect himself and to detach.

Where I find myself is needing to make a new kind of relationship with my son. My primary coping mechanism is anger. Sad but true. I am punitive and insulting. Sad but true.

I believe that my own grief and guilt and fear...which stem in large part to disappointments in my own life for which I believed my son would be the remedy are a barrier.

If I were to be able to come to grips with my own hopes, disappointments, limits, I could deal with my son as an adult person as he is. Which when you think about it, is what we have to do with every other single person.

I am able to feel compassion for TL, for Suzir, for Insane. I have a harder time for either myself or my son.

Sad but true. PE will no longer work for me because the answers for me are not the same as for parents whose children do not have the history that has my son.

I have spent too long denying the reality of his history to myself. I no longer want to keep denying it, because it could be that my own denial forced him to live out his truth in a way that might not have been so necessary.

Thank you all of you. It is enormously helpful to decide these things about oneself. To know why one has to take this or that stance at this or that time. Thank you Insane for defining this for me.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

because it could be that my own denial forced him to live out his truth

See, comments like this is one other variation of taking responsibility on myself for what is, what happened.

This is why a specific forum for parents that cannot let go completely (not because they do not want to) but because child may be intrinsically limited. This calls for involvement by the parent, and gives room to play for the adult child. This confusion of boundaries and motivations makes it very difficult for me. To be able to have responses from parents who are experiencing this or have what help me.

Sorry to hijack the thread, TL. I will post on the new thread from now on.

COPA