It didnt take long....

[Nancy]

TL I know you know this but try to impress upon him that he needs to be in a treatment center where he is protected from the pressures and temptations so he can learn how to live sober, not just get sober. He's getting hung up on detox but when he can't stay away from drugs for more than a couple days what does he think that his body is telling him? When difficult child was in the treatment center the first five days were considered detox and she was in a different part of the center where they had medical personnel available to give medications to help with the withdrawal symptoms if needed. difficult child didn't need any medications except for a sleeping aid but it was still required, they don't know who needs more care so everyone gets it.

He's got to start thinking in terms of getting clean and staying clean. I'm not sure he's there yet but hopefully he will get there soon.

Nancy

 

[AmericanGirl]

TL, I hope he continues to talk. From reading your posts tonight, it sounds like he is trying to control the process. It's hard to give up control...even harder for addicts.

I like one thing Dr. Phil says on occasion - You do it until.

Think it fits with rehab.

 

[toughlovin]

Well it was a good convo... and it clarified some things for me. He is trying to convince me that the whole problem is that he is down there instead of up here. He seems to think all his problems would be solved if he came back up here and went to school, moved on with his life, had an apartment. How he would do all these things I am not sure... maybe he thinks somehow we are going to give him all these things? In which case he is just delusional.

He is of course making excuses for his drug use and not really admitting he has a drug problem.

I feel I stayed focused, direct and tried to ask questions and not lecture. To be honest i think I did very well, thank you very much.

My hope is that he will think about some of the things i said.... I think he may be hoping he will bring him back up here and get him into treatment up here. We are not going to do that. My point to him is the place is not the problem. And the more he tried to convince me otherwise, the more clear I became. I also know it is the girl that he wants to get back to.

So we shall see what happens tomorrow.

TL

 

[AmericanGirl]

Applauding....

 

[Kathy813]

Great job, TL.

 

[pinevalley]

TL:

I'm sending you good wishes that your son will finally realize that he needs to learn how to live free of drugs, and that he needs to do the hard work of getting clean in rehab. HUGS to you...

 

[DammitJanet]

TL...has anyone ever mentioned that he needs a duel diagnosis treatment center? I think he may have a personality disorder with the way he manipulates everyone so easily and twists everything so easily to get it to go his way. I really think that would continue if he was clean unless he got therapy along with substance abuse treatment. He really has you twisting with his words. Detox my left foot. Does your insurance cover long term rehab? I think he needs it but can he just walk out when the going gets tough? That would be my worry. I also think he needs to never come back to his place where he started drugging. That is what is recommended on all the intervention shows. He needs to build a whole new life free of bad choices and bad friends.

 

[Calamity Jane]

TL,
One thing keeps coming to mind from Dr. Phil's show about Alexandra. Of course, her Mom & Dad were pleading with her to go into treatment, and Alexandra was carrying on and trying to turn the blame or whatever over to them. Dr. Phil advised Alexandra's Mom to just say the following thing, once and only once to Alexandra, and then stop talking: "I will not speak with you again, unless it's in the lobby of a treatment center." I keep hearing Dr. Phil's drawl just saying that over, and over again, like a mantra! No bargaining, no nothing. But I guess you have to have a TC lined up, in case he agrees.

 

[toughlovin]

Janet... yes about dual diagnosis.... the tx center he was in when he first went down there was dual diagnosis.. he did pretty well there actually. I do think he probably has a personality disorder BUT I also can see that since he started using around the age of 11 it is really hard to determine what his diagnosis is until he gets sober. That is the difficulty of course. He I think realizes he has mental health issues and wants to deal with those but cant seem to really admit that he has a substance abuse problem. He cant deal with the mental health issues unless he also deals with the substance abuse issues.

He is currently focused on the place being the problem.... he keeps looking for a better "place" and now in his mind that place is back up here. I think he would like to go back to the mental health program he was in in Sept until he went back to the sober house and took acid... so then the mental health program wont deal with him until he also addresses the sa problem.

The program I talked to yesterday is dual diagnosis... or at least they say they are.

He defintiely needs some serious individual therapy...

Gosh there is so much that he needs but he has got to be willing to do it.

And I am discouraged about the girlfriend. When he first went down there they had broken up and so he was willing to move down there... then he came back up for that court date and they saw each other and now I think it is up and down. I am sure she is the main reason he wants to be back here...and of course with him down there she can keep him dangling and in the background safely and so she does. I wish she would cut the ties. Obviously she has problems too....

Ugh I just have to wait and see what he decides to do. That is the hardest part.

Jane - interesting what Dr. Phil says. I don't think I can say I won't speak to him again... truth is he doesn't speak to me all that much anyways. I feel like as long as I stay clear and strong and recognize his manipulation tactics and can keep just giving him tidbits to think about he may take in some of what I am saying. I have noticed him doing that before.... so I will continue to text convo with him as long as he is decent towards me and we are clear that we are not bringing him back up here, nor are we paying for anything other than treatment.

It is amazing to me how he thinks he can just keep on lying to us and that we will keep on believing him!! I have reached my limit on that.

I wonder how long he will keep up the line of I need to come back up there... before he realizes we are not falling for that garbage?

Or I suppose the girlfriend could bring him back up here and then what, he will come to us to rescue him? Again?

TL

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Oh my goodness hon. Wow. It is so much easier to stand strong when they continually lie - I know it does for me - it downright ticks me off. I am so sorry he isn't getting it yet. Take care of you and let him figure it out from here. In my opinion, you have truly done all you could and more. The rest needs to fall onto him. (((HUGS)))

 

[Tiredof33]

You sound strong and I know (we all do) how much it hurts. I was so p***** at myself for falling for yet ANOTHER one of my difficult child's cons. But he had been sober for a year and I just wanted it to continue so bad I didn't listen to my gut feelings.

But, just like PatriotsGirl said, it did give me the strength to say NO and stand my ground. As much as I did not want to believe it, my difficult child and girlie only care about themselves and no one else. She has completely cut him off from his friends, but I now see that as a positive, he needs new friends!

We can only pray, and that makes me feel completely helpless. It is up to them and I will never give up hope, but I will never be conned again.

(((prayers)))

 

[toughlovin]

Thanks... yeah I am so tired of the lies.. and was kind of amazed yesterday how he told me also the same story as last time!!! And how much I wanted to believe him... but my husband who always believes him didn't even believe him this time around. So yeah we just dont believe him anymore and I was thinking today that at this point in his life he doesnt really care about us... he cares more about the drug use... and the girlfriend. I hope that is not true forever but it is the reality right now.

And in our conversation last night he now claims he went down there because he could smoke spice and get away with it!!!! huh? Maybe so... or not now that he has decided he is not so crazy about it down there and um he didn't get away with anything.

Anyway I am trying not to stew over him too much today.. keep waiting for a text from him. He is texting his girlfriend (checked the phone records) so I know he is alive and awake...... and I know I just have to wait. I am holding back from texting him some mama text.... and I am resisting the urge to call the girlfriend and ask her what the h*** is going on and to beg her not to enable him anymore. I am not going to do that even though I am sorely tempted because I know she wont respond and will text him and make him furious and it will ge me nowhere... I could take him being furious if I thought it would accomplish something but it won't... so I am holding back!!

TL

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Thanks... yeah I am so tired of the lies.. and was kind of amazed yesterday how he told me also the same story as last time!!! And how much I wanted to believe him... but my husband who always believes him didn't even believe him this time around. So yeah we just dont believe him anymore and I was thinking today that at this point in his life he doesnt really care about us... he cares more about the drug use... and the girlfriend. I hope that is not true forever but it is the reality right now.

And in our conversation last night he now claims he went down there because he could smoke spice and get away with it!!!! huh? Maybe so... or not now that he has decided he is not so crazy about it down there and um he didn't get away with anything.

Anyway I am trying not to stew over him too much today.. keep waiting for a text from him. He is texting his girlfriend (checked the phone records) so I know he is alive and awake...... and I know I just have to wait. I am holding back from texting him some mama text.... and I am resisting the urge to call the girlfriend and ask her what the h*** is going on and to beg her not to enable him anymore. I am not going to do that even though I am sorely tempted because I know she wont respond and will text him and make him furious and it will ge me nowhere... I could take him being furious if I thought it would accomplish something but it won't... so I am holding back!!

TL

Don't touch that phone!! LOL seriously. Do something else. Anything. We need to keep each other in check.

 

[Tiredof33]

Sadly, if you ask (plead) for girlfriend to leave him alone and let him try to get help, it seems to only make them band together tighter! In their little addicted minds it is us against them. It seems to romanticize the relationship into way more than it really is. Sometimes I think it is just one more way to rebel against us and they know it bugs us!

My difficult child used to brag about being able to break into anything. I had the proof, he could break into MY home regardless of the locks I installed. When he got into trouble it gave him BRAGGING RIGHTS - pathetic! I did not raise my son that way. When the difficult children start using, at whatever age, that is where they stay emotionally and mentally (until they start recovery) and both of our difficult children started using at an early age. I could tell a huge difference in my son the previous year that he was not using.

This is such a heartbreaking time for you - he is at crossroads in his life - I pray for you that he (and all of ours) will see that the current path is only taking them in circles.

 

[rejectedmom]

TL, I am so sorry you were taken in by his manipulations again. It stinks that he is still pulling this stuff whle you were hopeful land willing to help him. I understand about the abandonment issues. My difficult child#2 has them also and we had his therapist tell us to hold on while he was being abusive and using only to have him attack me. It was horrid but that abandonment thing stuck in my brain and I still continued to try to help him. He has had periods wehn he did well but they became fewer and shorter and eventually they were not enough for me to go out on a limb for him again. I think I will never do more than make a few referals for him in the future. He pulled all kindsof maipulations trying to get us to bring him back home. I guess I knew in my heart it wouldn't make a darn bit of difference and I was not really tempted to do that. I am sending you healing thoughts and much support. And yeah I agree with the others... PUT DOWN THAT PHONE AND DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF AND/OR YOUR husband!