Major ugh and yuck...

[ThreeShadows]

We've been wondering how difficult child 2 (23 y.o.) has been funding his education at a community college in New England. This AM he told me that he got a loan after he told them that he hadn't spoken with us or seen us since he was 18. I questionned him about living this lie and he said "you know I've been a liar for years".

We never abandoned this son, not even after he reported me to CPS, not even after he ran from home and told us all to go to Hell, slandered us all over a small town. We tried and tried to get him to come back into the family. These are not our values. He wasn't raised this way.

We adopted him, loved and cherished him, tried to teach him right from wrong.

I feel sorry that his fiancée knows that they are building their relationship on a lie. Does she really believe the lies will stop here?

 

[Suz]

These are not our values. He wasn't raised this way.

I remember wanting to have a Tshirt made for me to wear with this on it when Rob was in his heyday. His behavior was humiliating and I was so angry at him for sullying the family name, so to speak.

One of these days difficult child 2's lies will catch up with him.

I'm sorry, 3S.

Suz

 

[DammitJanet]

Oh sheesh. I can remember the days when I dreaded the phone ringing and hearing...Are your Cory's Mom? It was never good. Well...it still mostly isnt...lol.

The other day his bail bondsman called looking for him and I almost passed out. They had to keep calling my name over the phone to get me to speak because I was almost in a catatonic panic...lol. I asked them if he had failed to make his payment...oh no...nothing like that ma'am. He is fine. He just knows where someone we are looking for is and is going to help us, could you have him call us back. OMG...I could have just died when it was a GOOD call from a bail bondsman! LOL.

I used to tell people that he was just going through some alien phase and we hoped one day he would return to planet earth.

 

[Fran]

What a horrid feeling that your child intentionally hurts his family. His lies do hurt you more than him.
There is something worse about feeling shame for our kids vs. simple anger. I can be angry but when I felt shame it put me in the pits.

He knows better and his lies will come back and bite him on the butt.

He is no different in his arrogance as other criminals in the assumption that no one is as smart as he is. They get caught all the time. Not that will make you feel better,having your son caught in his lies. You will feel the anguish and if he doesn't learn a lesson, he will go to make up another lie.

Loss of trust takes years to rebuild.

 

[witzend]

It's funny that you should bring this up right now. M is also 23 years old. Of course, he didn't bother applying for any financial aid in June when he lost his job like I suggested, but his loss.

Anyway, he showed up last week and wanted to talk about his ideas about going to community college this term. No real plans about particular classes, just he thinks this is how he is going to get money, I think. He had his opportunity for us to pay for college when he got out of high school. I don't need to go into details about where he was, most of you know. Suffice it to say he didn't want or need anything from us, and that money is long gone five years later.

Anyway, he said something about not being eligible for aid unless we were incapable of paying for him because we were dead or in jail, or if one of us (I'm unclear if he means "us" or "him") says that we fear bodily harm from the other. I'm not going to say that! I'll gladly say that he cut us off from him and we have no real relationship with him. I hardly think that three dinners in two years counts as a relationship. But I won't say I fear him, and I won't say he has anything to fear from us. I told him we'd have to know more about what was going on and husband and I would discuss it.

This is the bed he made. I know he has options other than this, but I won't be a party to it. I'll be darned if I am going to sign a statement to the government about my parenting skills, whether it's that I'm a louse, or that we were such poor parents that he's a danger to society. Uh-uh. Ain't going to happen.

We'll see if he sends us any information, but so far, there's been nothing. He needs to get a job, and research what his options are on his own, for crying out loud! He's 23 years old! I'd been working for 7 years at that age, had a child, and was supporting myself and getting ready to marry husband. Where do they come up with this sense of entitlement?

 

[ChefPaula1965]

WOW, 3s that sounds so painful!! I am so sorry! sounds like you had your hands full with him... and this is the straw that feels like it is breaking the camel's back... WOW.. Sending gentle hugs your way... paula

(ps... where in France were you raised... I got my BAC at the highschool in Versailles... came back stateside when I was 20... total culture shock... Now life is amazing!)

 

[Nomad]

3S's....

(Hugs)

Seems most, if not all of us here, have had some notion of how you feel. That mud all over the family name. The lies on top of lies. That arrogance...entitlement. It can be disheartening...but with support and strength we can overcome the temptation.

And there is a tiny bit of good here in that he is going to school and admitting to you that he is a liar. Perhaps this is a baby step toward making a choice to stop lying or at least cut back. Wow..what in the world am I saying? This is difficult child business to be sure!
Weird stuff, but its a little something, I suppose.

A review of the three Cs and the three Gs:

You didn't CAUSE it

You can't CONTROL it

You can't CURE it

Get off their back

Get out of their way

Get on with your own life....



Be good to yourself....despite the ughs and yucks....success is the best amnesia.

Hugs, 3S's....

 

[BusynMember]

Well, I've adopted four kids and found that they tend to be more like their bio. parents than us no matter what we teach them. This can be good or bad...my two adopted kids who still live at home are magnificant. But we adopted one child at an older age and he never really thought of us as his family. To be honest, he is so unlike us that it was a terrible match. There were similar traits between us and our other adopted kids, but not him. He never felt like he was ours, although we loved him very much. He took off eventually. I think this is more prevalent when we adopt older kids. I don't think my son who bailed really wanted our love. We adopted him at six from another country. He was a great child and young adult, but did a total rejection around 30 years old. These kids who often have inadequate prenatal care which can get them off to bad starts, and then there is the added issue of sometimes a lack of genetic compatibility. I often think nature trumps nurture big time. To me, due to your son's horrible behavior toward you, I am wondering if he suffered attachment issues. I'm sure my son did.

I'm sorry you are hurting and, trust me, I know your pain. What he did was very insensitive. (((Hugs)))

 

[Star*]

First I want to address Janets phone call shocker and add - JUST one time I wish when people like that called they would start off with Miss Star - DUDE IS FINE - not in trouble - I'm his PO - but I need some help. I HATE that rug out from under you feeling and would like for them to know what that feels like. It would be like them having a child in the hospital and calling them at work and saying in a grave voice 'Are you the parent....(dramatic pause) of So&so....(deep breath?) then exhale....(dramatic pause) wait for answer then in your squeekiest high school girly voice perk up and go "Oh okay because I have a catalog for his high school right here and would like to get your opinion - silver or gold tone?" ugh. Jerk...yeah.

With regards to a pathalogical liar and a sullied last name. I have a few thoughts I'll share, maybe none of which will make you feel any better, maybe some of which will. They're pretty scattered tonight. Here goes. My x was a pathalogical liar. For unknown reasons the man could look at a red square, then at you, then at the square and say "Would you like to have a green circle?" Uncanny. There was no benefit in it for him, for you, or for the circle. This went on for reasons unbeknown to me our entire marriage over trivial things, over huge and life threatening issues. By the time I figured out that the man was mental, manipulative and psychopathic? I had a child and tried to stay for his sake. Huge mistake all the way around. When I left him? I made friends with a man who was a schizophrenic - but to my credit was already two years into very intense counseling. The odd thing was they psychopath found the schizophrenic to be the bigger liar. I told you - my life is nothing short of amazing. Watching the two of them in a room talking was a sight to behold. The interesting thing was they had told the majority of their lies for so long they believed what they were saying. Even when it came down to someone almost loosing their life over the lies? They stuck by their stories to that person - but would admit later to someone else - they lied. Just incredible. What I know now about pathalogical liars is there is no rhyme or reason for what they do and even if you call them on it at a very young age consistantly, minute to minute and at that very second? They will still continue to lie.

As far as dirtying your family name? Ah..yes, well - exhale. (laughs) - expletive, expletive...sticks out tongue - I'm so glad the rest of you standing around watching the ambulance and the police and the circus in my yard have no stones to throw - so go back to your glass houses..shows over....passes hat....(when you ask for money they all leave). I told you before. I've been so embarassed that I could tape a maxi pad on my forhead and waltz through a Walmart on a Saturday afternoon and not be phased and I mean it. I - ME - MYSELF and I - haven't tarnished my name. I know at the end of the day when I come home? It's between me and my higher power as to what went on with me and my kid and if the rest of them don't like it? (Go see line #2 and pass the hat) It's on him hon....I begged my son to take my maiden name. I didn't want him to keep his bioslobs name. I even discussed it with the therapist and they agreed - it could help him not feel connected to that part of his emotional being. For a while Dude did and THAT is when he drug my Father's name through the mud....twice....around the bend and back again. My Mom was livid. She had given him permission as the Matriarch of our family to have it. Then he ruined the gift. So he took his name back. Well....he ruined that one too - but couldn't do that one any worse than my x had - but when I stopped and thought about it? Even when he told the school I beat him, burned his clothes and bookes or was it threw his books away and burned his clothes - I went to school and faced them all - I told the officer as I walked in the office - "At 5'9" with a boxing career, weight lifiting, and body building back ground - and at 260 lbs at the time - IF I HIT HIM....BEEEEElieve me - there would be a mark. I have NEVER touched my child....then I handed her ALL his books, and showed her his clothes which were packed for the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) we prearranged and loaded him up and took him elsewhere than home."

People that know you - KNOW BETTER....People that don't? If they take the time to get to know you? WILL KNOW BETTER. People that either don't know you, won't take the time to know you, or never will? Wouldn't know anyway - so defer to line #2-3 in paragraph #3 and....pass the hat. I never met you - and I like you. I never met you and I think you're a great Mom. I never met you and I would have coffee with you, go shopping with you, let you cry on my shoulder, listen to you if you had a problem....I think you're neat. AND....just because......I'd even bring my OWN bloody hat....and I'd hold it out....for anyone that felt OTHERWISE.

I've also been known to drop my pants and moon people too....but since I gained weight and went to anger management classes - I would just pass another hat. Possibly a chappeau, since you are French.

Hugs -

Alls anyone of us every really wants is to be respected and understood...

 

[Hound dog]

(((hugs)))

His fiance will figure it out soon enough. This one probably seems like a harmless beneficial lie to her at the moment. Unfortunately, she will live and learn.

At some point your sons lies will catch up with him. Enough of this may get him to stop. I dunno. My husband has real issues with telling the truth. Fortunately for me.......I can tell instantly when he's lying to me. So with me it just doesn't work and really never has. But I've forced him to face up to many of his lies with other people......It has helped somewhat for the most part, but if he thinks someone will be hurt or angry with him.......he's lying thru his teeth again.

sigh

I've got a brother the same way. We just ignore 99 percent of what comes out of his mouth. My sibs manage to get along with him for the most part. I just keep my distance. This isn't his only difficult child issue, but it's one that rubs me the wrong way the most. I think the reason for this is cuz with my brother he just lies to lie, it's not even to avoid confrontation or to avoid hurting someone. He just simply never tells the truth.

Some people learn, some don't. But usually it doesn't take others all that long to figure them out for the liar they are.

I have a feeling more people in your town have his true self pegged than you know.

((hugs))

 

[ThreeShadows]

Hi, Lisa! Nice to see you back on line!

difficult child 2 has lied so well for so long we used to say "he has a very rich fantasy life" or "I sense a career in the diplomatic corp, perhaps the State Department?". I think his fiancée has been raised to work the system too. Maybe I'm just cynical.

 

[Nancy]

3S it hurts to the core when they lie that way about us after we have done nothing except love then and take care of them and tried to raise them to be honest, honorable people. There have been so many times when I have said to myself I didn't raise her that way until I finally gave up. I have discovered that it doesn't matter how we raised them (as you and I have talked about). You know in your heart what you have given him. He may never acknowledge it because that allows him to continue being a victim and not responsible for himself.

About the loan thing, look at it this way, he has found a way to finance his education and it's a loan which means he has to pay it back, and he didn't come to you for it. Actually through FAFSA they can get student loans if they are no longer living with a parent or guardian and are completely responsible for themselves. I am hoping that my difficult child will do the same when she moves out. I don't care if she tells them we abandoned her to get it, she's 18 and there is no abandonment here.

You and I both keep hoping that they will acknowledge us as parents and they won't. They will continue living in their fantasy world blaming us for every wrong that befalls them for the rest of their lives.

Hugs,
Nancy

 

[ThreeShadows]

Nancy, I neglected to mention that each difficult child has inherited $62,000.00 from my mom's estate, so many people are getting hurt here. I'm sure there are more deserving and needy people who should be getting loans to attend a community college. I hate how empowered these young ones have become. I had to struggle to help put myself through college. I worked nights and week ends, I jumped at any chance I had to make money. I'm proud of my struggles.

#2 has bought himself a motorcycle. He will do that for himself but not finance his education. It has become way too easy for these kids to play the system. He's not the only one, I know plenty like him.