Please we need advice and support

Fairy dust

Member
Welcome! I agree with everything the other posters have written. You and your hubby need to reclaim your lives.
something in this spin cycle needs to change or the outcome will continue to be the same. May I gently suggest it’s your reaction to what is going on. Sadly some adult kids delight in manipulating, taunting etc. it gives them a sense of power especially when the chaos escalates. My therapist taught me the grey rock method of reacting. It has helped greatly. You as parents have done everything possible under the sun. Limit contact, and let him go his own way. It’s time. He has life lessons to learn. You no longer can be his parachute. Hugs.
 

lovemysons

Well-Known Member
Nandina…I know you like me are so grateful that we had loving relationships with our sons before they died.
It helps to ease the pain of losing them.
Maybe they are friends in heaven?
Wouldn’t that be cool! They might be living in their new bodies right next to each other!
I believe we all need support no matter where we are. 🥰
 

UphillClimbMom

Reaching Out, weary mom of out of control son,23.
My husband and I are desperate to find a place of support. Since we adopted our son 16 years ago, we have struggled with him in many ways. His birth parents were both abusive and had addiction issues. Mom had no prenatal care and took cocaine to get through delivering our son. Once born, he was taken from her and in and out of friends homes or foster care until just before age 2 when he came to us.

As educators, we recognized lots of issues: developmental, emotional, sensory stem issues, etc. He had no boundaries and was wild. We worried we were can capable as older adults to handle him but we found a group a professionals to help with all his issues and by age 3, no one could even tell he experienced such hell.

He did have anxiety, ADD, sleep issues, and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)). We managed just fine until 6th grade. Video games consumed him. Getting him to stop playing was like fighting a war. We ended up having to destroy several gaming systems and he hated us for doing it. However, they consumed him. Without games, he then was introduced to porn from a minister's child and then that became all consuming. When we discovered that issue (he was looking it up on his Daddy's phone and on the home computer), we were so disgusted - XXX PORN- we spanked him and put parental controls on everything at home. During COVID, he just became unbearable. When school started back, we had given him a cellphone because of soccer and he started on SNAPCHAT AND TIKTOK. He was addicted within 2 days. Within 6 months any time we took the phone, he fought us, threatened us, hit us, and we fought back to protect ourselves. We contacted the police 15 times and they did nothing. At this point, he felt he could do anything to us without consequences. Finally, when he busted in our French doors and dared me to call police and choked me, we called the Police. We filed charges and he went to a psychiatric unit and then a behavioral hospital. He begged us to come get him but we couldn't. When his stay was over, we picked him up and I. The highway home he asked for his phone. When we said no, he grabbed the wheel and tried to crash the car. We called police again and they did nothing. Within 3 months, he had assaulted us again and was in Department of Juvenile Justice. He was on probation for 9 months and could have no phone. He bought one and we found it and he violated probation and it was increased and extended. Luckily he had a better probation officer and he completed his probation that same year. However, once he finished probation, he got his phone back.

Although the physical violence stopped, the bad behavior hasn't. He started having sex- at 15 both at our house and in a movie theatre. He would start a job and quit within 2 months. When he didn't get his way, he would refuse to go to school or work. He didn't do his school work, lied constantly, and we lived on guard.
At this point, my husband and I made a promise: if we can get him to 18 alive, without an STD, no other issues with the law, and can get him to graduate high school, we will pay for his juvenile record to be expunged. If he turns his life around, we will pay for college.
We had better periods of time. But, when he didn't get his way, there were threats of not going to school, not doing work, running away, etc. He totaled 2 cars in 11 months during his Junior year and girls h was seeing tried to get me fired (I teach at his school) twice.

We yelled everyday. We tried contracts, therapy, reward system, etc. NOTHING WORKED! He got involved in a mission group at church and we saw some positive changes. Then when Senior year started, he made all A's and we only had sporadic issues. When he totaled his 2nd car, we had to take him everywhere. He had and quit 3 jobs. He apparently started vaping, smoking pot, drinking, and sleeping around again.

We just laid down the law and said- once you turn 18, you can either move out, get kicked out or do what is necessary and graduate and we will get you another car.

Again we had minor issues here and there but he went to school, passed classes and was great. Turned 18 and it went to Hell.

This is where we are now. He graduated, we completed the expungement process, and he was18 and we thought going to college. What a joke. Everything was fine with him and he got his new car and went to the beach for a week with his friend.

When they got back from the beach, he just refused to keep his phone charged, wouldn't answer our texts and calls, snuck out with his college roommate who was staying with us, stole beer and liquor and brought it back to our house and got drunk. Then we found out he was sleeping around with 2-3 different girls and started sports betting and had lost $2000.

We told him before he graduated that to live with us and for us to pay for college he had to follow house rules or he would have 30 days to get out.

Last Thursday he just basically said "I'm 18 and you can tell me what to do. It's my life and I'm going to do what I want."

So we told him to pack up his stuff and get out. I called the police and asked them to be present while he gathered his things. We told him we would pay for his car insurance and phone until Christmas, we gave him $160 in cash, $5 in quarters to wash his clothes, and paid $1600 for him to stay at the Comfort Inn at Westgate to be close to his work for 15 days. We told him to get his mind straight and if he would follow house rules he could come home on June 21.

Well, he didn't show up for work, was removed from the work schedule, is staying out all night with girls, sports gambling, and claims he never wants to come home again and will live in his car or hang with friends until he can afford an apartment.

We told him we were coming to get his car (it's in his daddy's name) so he turned off Life 360. His Daddy just got fed up, called him and sold him the car for $1000.

Life 360 is still off and he told us yesterday that all of this was our fault because we want to control him and this is what we get for being terrible, crazy and bipolar as parents.

I need advice. Please help. We cannot do this anymore. We have told him that if he can follow our house rules he can come home until he can afford an apartment (with a time limit) or go to college and we will pay a month at a time.

Here are our rules he REFUSES TO FOLLOW AND SAYS ARE CONTROLLING.
This is a list of our house rules that he says "control him" that he will not follow. Tell me what you think.

Keep phone charged
Keep Life 360 on at all times
No sex, drugs, alcohol, on property or in house
Follow curfew- 12 Sunday-Thurs and 12:30 Fri-Sat or we can arrange later
Keep room, clothes, towels, sheets clean
Clean bathroom
Clean up your own dishes
Pay car insurance
No sports betting
Work 20-25 hours per week
Pay your own gas and use your own money for going out.
Show respect and appreciation
Don't drive/ride with people who are drunk or high
If sexually active use protection
Save your money
We need to know who you are with and where you are
If you are coming in after curfew or are not able to drive home, call and let us know.

Are these unreasonable?

We spoke to him yesterday or tried to and
Now He refuses to even speak to us. At least we offered for him to come back if he has no place to stay. But he says he is not coming back. He has been going around telling everybody he is homeless which isn't true. We put him up in a hotel for 2 weeks and for what, he quit working, has been sports betting, drinking, and sleeping around.

He has spoken to all family members and says he doesn't care. He says he is in control and has the power now.
He claims we will never know where he is. I mean seriously what we were supposed to do?

I can't live this way. He was even meeting girls at the top of our driveway during the middle of the night before we made his pack and leave.

Our therapist said he has to see that his way won't work like he thinks.

I just don't see any way around making him leave. And no, I guess he has no plans for college. He just wants easy money, to do what he wants and have no responsibilities. He says all his friends parents think we are evil people to kick him out for "just being a typical 18 year old." He said the parents of the kid he went to the beach with said we are abusive because during those severe storms last week, he wouldn't charge his phone and was down to 15%. He wouldn't answer calls or texts. We found him on Life 360 and pulled up behind him and his friend. I got out of the car, banged on his window and told him to charge his phone. He said, No! I said open the door, he did and I jerked the phone out of his hand and said "charge the damn phone now like you were asked." He laughed and his friend was so upset he asked to go home. Then he said my friend thinks you are insane and won't speak to me now. I told him- when we ask you to do something it's for SAFETY. And we don't care that you are 18. We will do what is necessary and if it embarrasses you that is tough. Follow the rules or park the car.

Are we crazy? We are just fed up. Please help us!!!!
 

UphillClimbMom

Reaching Out, weary mom of out of control son,23.
💔I would guess a little of both:) but our kids make us that way, crazy that is. I identify with your history although my son is mine by birth and is 23 not 18 very similar as far as behaviors regarding video games and electronics and following rules and boundaries.

My son is homeless in Arizona, we live in the Pacific Northwest, he was fired from his work and lost his room and board position, it was all in one. We have similar boundaries, or happy to have him come home, will help him get here with gas money but we have some rules he can't live at home, we pay for rented room and help him get on State insurance so he could get help for his psychiatric issues. He has to get a job, and keep a job and see counseling and attend counseling. For us to continue to help him. His sticking point on not wanting to come home is he does not want the "crutch"of getting help for his mental illness (quotation marks, his.) Our son doesn't have an adult diagnoses, that is why seeking help his one of our to boundaries.

I am working, mightily on detaching. I printed the Article on Detachment, have it folded in my pocket or purse and pull it out often. I am also seeking support, starting next week, going to a support group for families with mentally ill family members. I pray nightly a prayer f protecting for my son and any time I think of him during the day, I try to turn my thoughts of worry to ones of love and well wishes to him; I cant say that it is at all very successful in changing my thought pattern but I am consciously working to change my knee jerk thoughts which then turn into continued enabling and enmeshment.

I am sticking to my boundaries and think yours sound very reasonable especially because your son is only 18.

I am glad you are here but sorry you or any of have to be.
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I’ve heard of “grey rock.” To the best of my knowledge it’s sort of like ignoring “bad” behavior. Going silent. No reaction. Like “grey rocks.” Blah, neutral…plain…quiet. Not reacting at all. But I too would like to hear more!
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Found this online- “ The grey rock method is where you deliberately act unresponsive or unengaged so that an abusive person will lose interest in you. Abusive people thrive on emotions and drama. When you act indifferent and don't show your emotions, they may lose interest and stop bothering you. This is known as “grey rocking.”
 

Fairy dust

Member
Hi Fairy dust, I am curious, what is the grey rock method of reacting? Sounds like something some of us might find helpful. Thanks.
Hi there. Basically it is a technique where you don’t allow yourself to get engaged with someone who is showing toxic or abusive behaviours. Minimal responses without sharing a lot of personal information So that you protect yourself from being hurt and manipulated. Unfortunately some folks thrive on chaos and drama and that can include our adult difficult children. google it, there are lots of articles on it. I don’t always do this when interacting with my son, only when I feel tensions escalate or becoming abusive. i found through the years by showing my feelings etc it gave opening to FOG fear, obligation and guilt and sadly my son would be all over that like a vulture to my broken spirit. thanks to therapy and understanding the manipulation I always try to stay strong when with him and refuse to show him any emotion. Of course our interactions are typically not lengthy. Maybe an hour, maybe a few. It’s sad but it is what it is and what I need to do to survive. Hugs
 

Nandina

Member
Thanks! It reminds of the way a lot of teachers respond to certain children who are attention-seekers or who like to stir the pot. I wish I had been able to do that more with one of my kids who could engage me in like two seconds! By the time the third child came along, I was getting better at being unresponsive to toxic behavior but had never heard that term.
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
My adopted son had pretty much the same life as yours did. Except he was placed in a crisis shelter at 2 weeks old. I brought him home just before he was 2 years old. He flourished as did yours. Things didn't fall apart until he was about 20. He is 35 now homeless and chronically mentally ill. It's heartbreaking for me.. I've been here 9 years (on this site) trying to deal with this.
I have always had a special place in my heart for you Copa because your son and mine sound so similar in many ways. We brought Josh home at 4 months and he was so wonderful as a child and even as a teen. It wasn't until he was about 20-22 yo that things began to fall apart. I know I've said it before, but I hurt for you and I'm so sorry for what happened to your sweet boy.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I'm so sorry for what happened to your sweet boy.
Thank you, Beta. My heart goes out to you too. Our sweet, beautiful boys...mine, homeless, alone, afraid, and sick. How do we bear it, Beta? I find it unbearable, still, when I go there. Love, Copa
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
Copa,
I know. If I let my mind dwell on what he is going through or what condition he is in...well, it's too much. I have to shut it down. Prayer does help though. I am trusting that God is working even though I can't see it. May God pour out his grace and mercy on our boys, and on all the adult kids who are living in the pit right now.
 

laugh

New Member
I can feel your pain in that description. It may be more painful to read this response as I feel your son is partly correct - you are being too controlling. You are clearly highly analytical and have a strong sense of right and wrong - some call this a 'green' personality. Your son is directive and cares little for details - a 'red' personality. Part of his success with attracting women might be this personality trait. Teenage girls are often drawn to boys who play by their own rules. Due to his developmental issues, you don't want to treat him as an adult, which is understandable. However, at 18, if he begins to define a world without you, you may have to accept it.

To put it in context, when I was that age, I lived common law and worked full-time. Did my parents approve? No. Did I have the maturity to make those decisions? Not really. However, it was time to make my own mistakes. Eventually, I came round to my parents' viewpoint and ended the relationship and returned to school.

It is time to break free for you both. Being free means that it's time to wean him from your purse. However, I wouldn't make it punitive. Let him know that you respect his right to choose and it's time for you to phase out your funding. Personally, if he's respectful with the charges, I might make the mobile phone an exception. It's symbolic - if he wants your help, he can call. If he wants to return home, that's also ok. Then, house rules apply. As a parent of an 'adult' of any age, you still have the right to set rules of behaviour for conduct inside your home.

I wish you luck and, remember, it seems terrible now, but things will get better.
 

Nethialo

New Member
I hear you. You’ve been through so much already. From what I can tell, your rules aren’t unreasonable at all—safety and respect are key. I’ve had my own struggles with setting boundaries, and sometimes it feels like no matter what you do, it’s never enough. I think sticking to your rules is important, but it might also help to get a family therapist involved to get another perspective. You’re doing your best, and sometimes it’s okay to lean on outside help to navigate these tough situations.
 

So Very Drained

New Member
Beta and all…my husband and I helped our son Jarod in every way shape or form. Me especially. He was my project child because he was the middle child and I had read the statistics when he was young in on middle children. Plus…he was just different from our other 2.
He had bursts of anger as a child. He was our introvert while his older brother was outgoing. He was artistic and fascinated by the weather. He watched the weather channel at age 10 lol and could read weather models from all over the world. He also showed very low energy and would not put a lot of effort into work. It was even hard to get him to shower properly as a child!
He loved legos though. He and I would spend hours on the floor in the living room building Lego creations. But then after we would have a model built and he would get angry about something, he would destroy our Lego creations. 😞

Our son got involved with drugs after following in his older brother’s footsteps at around age 13. We put them both in rehab for 4-6 months. School was interrupted. My husband tried to help homeschool him but we still had problems with his behavior.
He was eventually diagnosed with Bipolar disorder. We tried medications but they didn’t work.

Eventually when he turned 18 and got his girlfriend pregnant, he married her and joined the Army. That lasted 15 months. He was discharged (with a general honorable discharge) for substance abuse.

After that he and his wife moved in with us and they had another child. Work was sketchy if at all. He began using opioids and drinking a lot. We couldn’t live like this and they moved in with wife’s mother. They went on to have a third child.

His wife and he decided to go blizzard chasing in Amarillo Texas and he got suicidal at the same time so his wife called 911 at the hotel they were staying in. The ambulance took him to the emergency room. They had no psychiatric beds available. The police were there and my son felt disrespected by them so he ended up spitting on them. He was then taken to jail and beat up by the police. He was charged with harassment of a public servant. A felony. He was sent to prison for over a year.

After that he returned to his mother in laws with his wife and 3 children. He got a job and worked for a year but also got involved with Meth. His wife kicked him out once the job he had fired him for his drug abuse.

His wife quickly got involved with another man she had been secretly engaging with online. She moved in with him and got pregnant right away. While our son was now homeless.

We took Jarod in several times throughout those years of on again off again homelessness. My husband tried to help him with jobs while I tried to help him with psychiatrists and being his advocate and best friend.

When he was homeless and hooked on Meth he would often become psychotic and up in a hospital. I can’t tell you how many hospitals he went to. Too many to count.

His wife ended up getting kicked out of the man’s house she was in after she too got hooked on Meth and started fighting with him.
Within 2 years she was pregnant a 5th time. Living with her mom where she still is today with our 3 grandchildren and 2 other sons.

My sweet sensitive son with the drug addiction problems didn’t make it. He was homeless in California 2 years ago on Thanksgiving when he died with Meth in his system after being hit by an unlicensed driver on the highway. He was alone when he died. No shoes on his feet at 4:50am. 3 dollars to his name and a few cigarettes.

I don’t know why I felt compelled to write his story this morning. Sometimes I just need to think about his life and all that he went through. All that we went through.

I miss him so much. I tried so hard to love his pain away. To fix him. He was so loving to me. He even thanked me the week before he died for bringing him into this world and having him. Can you imagine. He is homeless in the streets and is thanking his mom for bringing him into this world.

I have to keep his memory alive. He mattered. His life had meaning. He brought 3 beautiful children into this world. He loved them so much. The only thing I think he was proud of.

I don’t regret anything I did for my son. But I will say my husband and I paid a heavy price. I had a psychotic breakdown, got shingles, had to be hospitalized. My husband lost tons of sleep and money. I was in severe depression for many of those years.

My son’s death comes with some relief now as sad as that is to say. We are no longer suffering along side our son. Our son is at peace now and has a new body and a new home. No more angst. No more dreadful calls or experiences for any of us.

So many years spent on addiction and its trauma and problems are over for us now.
Left only with wishing things/life could’ve been different for our son, for his children and for us. Memories of sweeter times. The times when he was sober or as a young child.

Mama misses you Jarod and will love you always. Hugs to heaven.

I pray for peace to come to all members of our our conduct disorders board. Be at peace with yourselves. Know that you have done your best with the most difficult of situations. Be grateful for what you can be grateful for today.
And keep loving yourselves and your children as you pray for their eventual peace.

Love, LMS
Lord have mercy. So many feelings, reading your post. So very sorry for you that your son is gone - but also so understand your words "my son's death comes with some relief....". I really can't imagine. I felt some relief when my ex picked up our son and moved him to Ohio with him and his wife. At least he wasn't banging on my door - sleeping in his car outside of my house, coming to my work - keeping me in a state of perpetual emotional turmoil. I don't want him to die - or off himself - or anything terrible like that. It's been so so so so many years of chaos and my mind and soul are hurting. You have my absolute sympathy. God bless you. And I pray too - every single night - and try so hard to leave it in God's hands.
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
Beta and all…my husband and I helped our son Jarod in every way shape or form. Me especially. He was my project child because he was the middle child and I had read the statistics when he was young in on middle children. Plus…he was just different from our other 2.
He had bursts of anger as a child. He was our introvert while his older brother was outgoing. He was artistic and fascinated by the weather. He watched the weather channel at age 10 lol and could read weather models from all over the world. He also showed very low energy and would not put a lot of effort into work. It was even hard to get him to shower properly as a child!
He loved legos though. He and I would spend hours on the floor in the living room building Lego creations. But then after we would have a model built and he would get angry about something, he would destroy our Lego creations. 😞

Our son got involved with drugs after following in his older brother’s footsteps at around age 13. We put them both in rehab for 4-6 months. School was interrupted. My husband tried to help homeschool him but we still had problems with his behavior.
He was eventually diagnosed with Bipolar disorder. We tried medications but they didn’t work.

Eventually when he turned 18 and got his girlfriend pregnant, he married her and joined the Army. That lasted 15 months. He was discharged (with a general honorable discharge) for substance abuse.

After that he and his wife moved in with us and they had another child. Work was sketchy if at all. He began using opioids and drinking a lot. We couldn’t live like this and they moved in with wife’s mother. They went on to have a third child.

His wife and he decided to go blizzard chasing in Amarillo Texas and he got suicidal at the same time so his wife called 911 at the hotel they were staying in. The ambulance took him to the emergency room. They had no psychiatric beds available. The police were there and my son felt disrespected by them so he ended up spitting on them. He was then taken to jail and beat up by the police. He was charged with harassment of a public servant. A felony. He was sent to prison for over a year.

After that he returned to his mother in laws with his wife and 3 children. He got a job and worked for a year but also got involved with Meth. His wife kicked him out once the job he had fired him for his drug abuse.

His wife quickly got involved with another man she had been secretly engaging with online. She moved in with him and got pregnant right away. While our son was now homeless.

We took Jarod in several times throughout those years of on again off again homelessness. My husband tried to help him with jobs while I tried to help him with psychiatrists and being his advocate and best friend.

When he was homeless and hooked on Meth he would often become psychotic and up in a hospital. I can’t tell you how many hospitals he went to. Too many to count.

His wife ended up getting kicked out of the man’s house she was in after she too got hooked on Meth and started fighting with him.
Within 2 years she was pregnant a 5th time. Living with her mom where she still is today with our 3 grandchildren and 2 other sons.

My sweet sensitive son with the drug addiction problems didn’t make it. He was homeless in California 2 years ago on Thanksgiving when he died with Meth in his system after being hit by an unlicensed driver on the highway. He was alone when he died. No shoes on his feet at 4:50am. 3 dollars to his name and a few cigarettes.

I don’t know why I felt compelled to write his story this morning. Sometimes I just need to think about his life and all that he went through. All that we went through.

I miss him so much. I tried so hard to love his pain away. To fix him. He was so loving to me. He even thanked me the week before he died for bringing him into this world and having him. Can you imagine. He is homeless in the streets and is thanking his mom for bringing him into this world.

I have to keep his memory alive. He mattered. His life had meaning. He brought 3 beautiful children into this world. He loved them so much. The only thing I think he was proud of.

I don’t regret anything I did for my son. But I will say my husband and I paid a heavy price. I had a psychotic breakdown, got shingles, had to be hospitalized. My husband lost tons of sleep and money. I was in severe depression for many of those years.

My son’s death comes with some relief now as sad as that is to say. We are no longer suffering along side our son. Our son is at peace now and has a new body and a new home. No more angst. No more dreadful calls or experiences for any of us.

So many years spent on addiction and its trauma and problems are over for us now.
Left only with wishing things/life could’ve been different for our son, for his children and for us. Memories of sweeter times. The times when he was sober or as a young child.

Mama misses you Jarod and will love you always. Hugs to heaven.

I pray for peace to come to all members of our our conduct disorders board. Be at peace with yourselves. Know that you have done your best with the most difficult of situations. Be grateful for what you can be grateful for today.
And keep loving yourselves and your children as you pray for their eventual peace.

Love, LMS
Thank you for sharing your story and the story of your sons. Your love for them is very great, and you have definitely suffered because of it. I hope you can find some peace.
 
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