Need prayers

TA99

New Member
Er has to treat him whether he pays or not. You don't have to cough up a copay. He can pay a dollar a week. Or not. They treat people who are indigent with no coverage all the time. They bring people in off the street without checking to make sure they have insurance. At my point in life I can no longer afford to pay for whatever Kay does to make herself vulnerable to sickness or accidents. But I would encourage her to go to ER and pay a buck a week. Most of our kids smoke cigarettes, do drugs, find cash for what they want. Kay can find $1 a week. If she doesn't care enough about her credit to pay this small amount, then it is her problem. Our troubled kids make themselves into bullies and victims and break our banks doing it.

I just spoke to Kay so I am feeling cynical. But I think maybe your son is trying to make you feel guilty over something that is in no way your fault so that you are feeling weak and hand over money for drugs. Kay did this all the time. She didn't like when we offered to pay, say, a doctor directly. She wanted the cash.

Kay doesn't trust doctors or see them unless she wants money from us for one. Hmmmm. Then when we want to pay the doctor directly she says we don't trust her.

We don't and cant trust her. We do not go out of our way to criticize Kay, but we don't give in either anymore. I think the blinders suddenly came off and I know her game. Our new game is that she can find ways to do things herself because she is smart. Your son is too. They are highly educated in Manipulation 101. That takes brains. Most of us are not dummies but they fool us all the time.

I will send prayers to you in the hopes that you can be the soldier you must be for yourself and your son. Be well.
So my son who lives in another state seemed to be doing well. Although he never follows recommendations and does it his way, he seemed to be doing well at work and having good decision making... Well, so much for that. I have not seen my son since Dec. and today he facetimed me... it was horrifying. He says he relapsed and missed work a few days. Was trying to go in today and was running late so got an electric scooter and crashed it because he was intoxicated. His face looks more like he was in a fight. Eye is swollen, nose is swollen, blood just awful.
I didn't know what to say and I am not sympathetic anymore so I am numb. He didn't like when I said he should go to urgent care and get looked over. He lashed out saying he didn't have money for that and owes how much in medical bills (he went to the er at least 5 times in the past 9 months due to drinking) I refuse to pay those deductibles. I said well then get yourself together and go to work on Monday. He told me that he doesn't even know why he called because I always make him feel like :censored2:. I found out his new relationship went south. She told him she wants nothing to do with him... He told my husband she wanted him to try acid so not sure what else they did . I am glad she is gone but he has issues. Everytime he relapsed it was over a girl and a relationship. I reminded him that in recovery there should be no relationships and well that went over well. He said he only feels whole if he has a girl in his life.
He needs prayers. I need prayers. I need to stay strong. I don't know what God's plan is for him. I just know I am tired of this roller coaster. Really thought he was getting his life together esp after he received a nice review at his job and an incentive. Just so sad right now.
 

TA99

New Member
It's so sad when we have to put our kids out. I'm not going to have stealing, lying and his abuse on pot. Prayers your way!
 

tryingtobestrong

Active Member
Wanted to update.. went back to work this week- pretty sure anyway.
husband called him on Sunday night and Monday night but son never answered and so he left a message... Still never returned the call. That really pisses me off. (sorry) So, got a text on Monday regarding how even if he works all the overtime he can this week he won't have enough for his rent next week... plus he has so many other bills to pay and he wants to pay on his medical bills from the past... I suggested calling for assistance for his rent and I got "I can't believe you would even suggest that like I know you don't have all the money in the world but you can help me and I will pay you back". I so wanted to throw all the other times in his face that I never got paid back for but bit my tongue... We are told not to shame the addict and that is where I have a hard time because I don't know what is shaming and what is not. If I would have came back with- "I am still waiting to be paid back from last year" I would have received..."I don't need you to tell me I am trash, I know I am already".
Then onto his glasses... He found a place near him and so we agreed to get him a replacement for his glasses for his birthday. I called the business and they refused to accept payment over the phone but suggested I purchase egift cards for the glasses.. Did that but screwed up the one email address. Well, that caused an issue with my son. I called the company and they said they could refund his credit card and apply the gift card if he called them with the number. So I informed him of that.. Well, I got a text about that from my son and how it pisses him off that he has to call for a credit. "I replied that I fricken screwed up and that I have a lot on my mind.If he didnt' want to call for his credit then that is his problem" Since then, he has not made contact. I guess I pissed him off but I am over this crap.
Can't even return phone calls unless he wants something. I bet he will call or text about his rent due.
Never ever asks about the family or what is going on in our lives.
My dad got some news about his heart and well we are all concerned. Not sure if I should just tell my son that his grandfather may not be around for another year or not. It isn't like he ever asks.
Last Friday he text me about us buying him an airline ticket to come home so he can visit his friend who is deceased?? I guess he wants to visit his grave. Really?? Like how about flying home to visit the people who care about you that are still alive? My reply to his request was that the last time he was home he hated it and wanted to fly back to his state with-in 12 hours of being home.
Ungrateful
 

WiseChoices

Well-Known Member
Based on your previous posts, your son had relapsed, so has substance abuse issues. Anything you do for him right now will enable him to continue his addiction.

The fact that he doesn't have money for his rent is that he most likely spent his money on drugs . When he adds that he wants to pay down on old medical bills in addition to the rent it is a red flag that he is just trying to squeeze money out of you .

by the way if he calls AA or NA helpline , they will get him a ride to meetings .
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I think shaming means "You are a dirtbag" which you would never say.
.

I tended not to engage with Kay in these types of conversations. I would get out of the nasty discussions. So that cut out a lot of word salad from her.

I think if you say to your son in a factual way, "I am still waiting for you to pay me back from the other times" that is not shaming. If he takes the leap and says "I know I'm scum" you can calmly respond "I said you owe me from my last loan. You called yourself a name, not me."

We can't help them from shaming themselves. That is on them. They know they are not acting right and are quick to demean themselves either because they feel ashamed or because they believe that by calling themselves names we will pity them and give in. Or both.

I see no way for these kids to never feel ashamed. But it is usually not because of us. And frankly we are human and can't always be perfect.

If you buy him glasses you can use any method you like. It's not up to him. He can always get a job and buy his own glasses if he doesn't like your way of buying them.

My way of dealing with my difficult daughter is accepting her as she is right now. It no longer gets me angry and I cry less. The stark reality is that unless we offer her money and gifts, she doesn't ask about us, care about us or even want to speak to us. I accept this without judgment. It is what it is.

Why does your husband contact your son? He knows what he will receive from him. I know it's because he loves him, but he is setting himself up to be hurt. If we feel a need to contact them, and we did for a decade plus, then we need to turn into brave soldiers, accept that they are not going to be loving toward us, and be ready to say no when they hit us up for something. We need plans of protection too in case they get abusive. Maybe it is best to block texting and have a phone only rule. You can end a phone call but a text is there and stares at you forever until you have the guts to delete it. I think texting brings out the worst in difficult kids. If I need to contact Kay, I would call her and keep texting blocked. She would hate it but we don't want anymore abusive texts.

God bless.
 

WiseChoices

Well-Known Member
I think shaming means "You are a dirtbag" which you would never say.
.

I tended not to engage with Kay in these types of conversations. I would get out of the nasty discussions. So that cut out a lot of word salad from her.

I think if you say to your son in a factual way, "I am still waiting for you to pay me back from the other times" that is not shaming. If he takes the leap and says "I know I'm scum" you can calmly respond "I said you owe me from my last loan. You called yourself a name, not me."

We can't help them from shaming themselves. That is on them. They know they are not acting right and are quick to demean themselves either because they feel ashamed or because they believe that by calling themselves names we will pity them and give in. Or both.

I see no way for these kids to never feel ashamed. But it is usually not because of us. And frankly we are human and can't always be perfect.

If you buy him glasses you can use any method you like. It's not up to him. He can always get a job and buy his own glasses if he doesn't like your way of buying them.

My way of dealing with my difficult daughter is accepting her as she is right now. It no longer gets me angry and I cry less. The stark reality is that unless we offer her money and gifts, she doesn't ask about us, care about us or even want to speak to us. I accept this without judgment. It is what it is.

Why does your husband contact your son? He knows what he will receive from him. I know it's because he loves him, but he is setting himself up to be hurt. If we feel a need to contact them, and we did for a decade plus, then we need to turn into brave soldiers, accept that they are not going to be loving toward us, and be ready to say no when they hit us up for something. We need plans of protection too in case they get abusive. Maybe it is best to block texting and have a phone only rule. You can end a phone call but a text is there and stares at you forever until you have the guts to delete it. I think texting brings out the worst in difficult kids. If I need to contact Kay, I would call her and keep texting blocked. She would hate it but we don't want anymore abusive texts.

God bless.
I like this post so much, Busy! You are right: stating a fact is not shaming. And I like how you would repeat what you said and kept the responsibility for the name calling on the person who name called.
 

tryingtobestrong

Active Member
My husband calls to try to keep the communication lines open. My son and husband didn't have a good relationship. He was very distant from my husband and not sure what happened there other than my husband sat on his lazy boy after work most times instead of throwing ball and doing things with him. Their relationship was strained when my son lived at home. My husband will send him a text here and there but rarely ever receives a reply.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
If he doesn't reply maybe he shouldn't even do it. Not if it is used as an excuse for giving you grief. Is this his father or step?
 

tryingtobestrong

Active Member
It is his father, my husband.

So upset today. I had a feeling he wasn't doing well and reached out to my contact that I know from his work. Yep, I was right. He didn't go to work today. Said he had a rough weekend and will be there tomorrow is what I heard from my source. Is protected under FMLA due to his disease.

I know I shouldn't put myself through this but we stupidly did help him pay for his rent. He told us he would pay us back over a 3 pay period. Told us that this last accident due to being intoxicated really got his attention and he knows his luck is running out. Told my parents the same thing and they also bought into it and helped with the cost. He talked a good talk and my husband said to tell him he will take care of it this time and he should use this as an opportunity to pay off some of his debt he has....

Today we find out he is drinking again, missed work today and well who knows what tomorrow holds.
I am so sick. Angry at myself for even thinking he would change. Been down this road so many times I should have known.
It kills me to have to cut him off but I guess that is what needs to be done.
His birthday is next week. I don't even want to send anything. I feel like if I do send a card just saying paying part of his rent was his birthday gift.
He is still on our health insurance due to our employer allowing that until the child is 26... We are thinking of telling him he needs to get his own through his employer. It will cost him a weekly fee plus he would be responsible for all of his deductibles. Looking at the plans they offer they are large deductibles. I wish I would care. I need to just cut all ties but it is so hard.

I hate myself for even thinking he would be successful this time, for falling for this got my attention this time. I could have been paralyze or have brain damage... (He his the right side of his face off of a concrete curve- concussion, bloody face, closed up eye, etc. Coughed up blood for days and blew blood clots out of his nose... AND is back to drinking???)
I hate this life. Sorry, really down right now. Marriage sucks as well. Sick of life.
 

JayPee

Sending good vibes...
Trying...hang in there. “There is always sunshine after the rain”.

I feel for myself what makes me suffer is wanting things to be permanent when they are not. We want adult sons to handle “things” the way we would-right? The reality is that this is their life, their journey. Being able to accept “what is” is I believe our lesson we must learn.

We have no control over what transpires in their lives but what we do have, is control of our response to the situation.

It’s what we do or fail to do that perpetuates this scenario and prevents them to try to solve their own human basic problems. There is almost no chance they will ever be able to take care of themselves as long as we keep removing the painful circumstances and consequences.

I used to think it was much easier for me to say there was no hope for my homeless sons than to go through the agony of learning to play a new role.

Initially when we begin our new role of not enabling them it will cause great suffering, conflict and confusion within ourselves. But in the long run this is far less painful than continuing the same repetitive enabling patter that never lets us off the merry go round.

We must change ourselves so that others destructive patterns no longer work on us.

Not easy but it must be done for our own sanity and we’ll-being.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I really found out that without them showing the initiative of getting help to change, they don't want to. My daughter had an altercation with her husband and her eye was swollen shut and her lip was all swollen. She sobbed to us that if she only had enough money for a new apartment, she would leave Lee with infant Jaden. We eagerly gave her money for an apartment we found for her. A nice one. We were shaken more than her.

The next day she called saying Lee cried and begged her to stay so she isn't leaving. We were horrified and asked for the money back. We almost never gave her cash. She promised to bring it by. She then ghosted us and we never saw the money again. Later in the month we got a happy text about how good things are now between Lee and herself and that they are soulmates. We were so angry and frustrated.

This was not their last altercation. Sometimes Lee gets the worst of it. Kay will use chairs and frying pans. They won't press charges against each other.

These altercations happen about twice a year or so. When they happen, it's bad. My grandson watches and cries.

My husband and I finally stopped getting involved at all. We have not gotten involved in anything for about a year. Only Kay leaving Lee and getting psychiatric help and rehab would entice us to possibly pay the facilities that are helping her. But Kay herself will get no money.

My husband and I go to Al Anon, therapy and stay close to God. We do the best we can. So do you. Don't beat yourself up. Just be more careful next time.

God bless you.
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
This quote by Portia Nelson was shared at a NAMI meeting and had a big impact on me. At first I thought it was about my daughter but then I realized it described me, too. I kept helping and enabling her over and over until I finally learned to walk around the hole.

“I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in.
I am lost... I am helpless.
It isn't my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.

I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend I don't see it.
I fall in again.
I can't believe I am in the same place.
But, it isn't my fault.
It still takes me a long time to get out.

I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in. It's a habit.
My eyes are open.
I know where I am.
It is my fault. I get out immediately.

I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.
 

WiseChoices

Well-Known Member
Trying, give yourself a break .This stuff is hard. You are doing the best you can with the tools you have today.
 

Triedntrue

Well-Known Member
It seems like our sons and daughters have so much in common. I wonder if anyone has done a study on that. So many things i can relate to. The girlfriends for one. My son can be very charming and when sober is a great guy. Eventually he either drinks and gets nasty or gets jealous and the relationship falls apart. Also the I am a piece of :censored2: line. Sometimes when i am frustrated and feeling mean i want to say if you think you are a piece of :censored2: then change. I don't because i know it would not have good results. I did say to him during one conversation where he was accusing me of talking :censored2: about him how else could they know "do you think it might have been your behavior i didnt have to say anything".
I think the serenity prayer is applicable to all of us. "GOD GRANT ME the serenity to accept the the things i can not change the courage to change the things i can and the wisdom to know the difference."
I also tried to just get him things he needed for work and food only when i was with him but he keeps piling on more stuff he needs and will lose job without. Then adds i am going to be late can you uber me? Then its everyday favors some of which i turn down but too many i don't.
 
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