nervous! speaker phone call Wed @9am...
- Thread starter rebelson
- Start date
worried sick mother
Active Member
I'm glad to hear that your session went well. Sounds like your son is doing well and that's great news. They never like being faced with reality or our perception. I still haven't had the session with my son. The counselor says my son is very apprehensive about having the session and definitely doesn't want to read the letter he wrote to me. Probably because he knows the things he said aren't true. I was only 17 when I had him so like you it's hard to believe they could actually resent us for getting married and having more children. The counselor is still trying to persuade my son for the phone counseling session so we will see.
DarkwingPsyduck
Active Member
If he isn't willing to be entirely honest, I'd say he is still missing the most crucial part to recovery, and that is humility. If he continues to embelish his childhood stories with nonsense, he hasn't learned humility. Honesty is so very crucial in those kinds of settings. One of the main reasons AA and NA are anonymous is to provide people a forum where they can tear down the many layers of bullshit present in all addicts' minds, and truly get to the core of the problems. This means accepting responsibility for our actions, and laying it all out there, bare, as it really is. Not what it seems like to the drug induced mentality. I told every lie in the big book of addict lies. Your son has, too. Maybe he made that stuff up in order to garner sympathy from people who will then help him continue his usage, or maybe he is doing it to skirt responsibility. Maybe it's both. Either way, he will eventually need to accept reality.
worried sick mother
Active Member
Thanks for the response, I don't know what the letter says so I'm just going based off what the counselor told me and the fact that he doesn't want to read it to me that it says lies. I know he didn't have a bad childhood and that he was given way more opportunities due to me getting married. The counselor tells me that he is very concerned about his relationship with me and that he wants to restore our relationship. You are absolutely right though if he is still telling lies then he's not serious about recovery. Drug addiction has definitely turned my son into a chronic liar, I can't ever believe anything that comes out of his mouth. Time will tell. It's so awesome to have your perspective and you taking the time to help us hurting parents.
DarkwingPsyduck
Active Member
You introduce me to an honest addict, and I will introduce you to a liar. We are like the professionals in lying. Most people do it here and there, for good reasons, or bad reasons, but they are merely visiting. We own it. There is NO lie too big for us to tell. It is a sad reality. We adopt many characteristics of personality disorders, like sociopath tendencies. It becomes so routine that, eventually, it doesn't bother you at all. As if it was a necessity, or that we are somehow entitled. It is all nonsense, of course, but nobody ever accused addiction of making sense.
Maybe he wrote lies in the letter, maybe not. If he did not, I wonder what it is that makes him refuse to read it. It is possible that he has admitted things far beyond what you know or think. Things he is VERY ashamed of, and would rather leave in the back of a dark closet. This would make a lot of sense, and would be indicative of at least starting to do things right. Facing the things we did is terrifying and humiliating at the same time. Maybe you could express to him that you know he did and said bad things, and that the only way to truly get past it is to go right through it? It is something he will need to do at some point, and maybe you can ease it up some for him by letting him know that, as long as he is in recovery, everything else is in the past. But ONLY if he is clean. Forgiveness is difficult, as is asking for it. Especially when we don't believe we deserve it. In order for him to even start being forgiven, things will need to drastically change. Let him know that you are hurt by his actions, but not ready to just throw in the towel.
rebelson
Active Member
My son is very lacking in humility. The psychologist who guided the speakerphone call gives me updates on son's therapy sessions. He says often that son shows narcissistic 'tendencies', but is not convinced (yet) that he has the actual personality disorder. Perhaps it's largely due to immaturity and/or the 'entitlement' mentality that Gen Y exhibits. Taken from a website:
"Millennials are often accused of having too strong a sense of entitlement, and their parents are often blamed for creating it in the first place. Often referred to as ‘helicopter parents’, the mums and dads of Generation Y are held responsible by many for telling their children that they can have and do anything, and that everything they do is an achievement. This – it is argued – has bred a generation convinced that they have done and will do things on unmatchable quality, and that rewards are due them for relatively little work or input."
I 'was' one of those helicopter parents.
I also felt a LOT of guilt that his bio dad was not someone that I could maintain a relationship with, so left him when son was 18mos. (he was already showing signs of alcoholism, still in to partying, cheated on me, was verbally abusive, etc. I did not want my son to grow up with that role model, or to have to endure the constant fighting that was our relationship. The psychologist's goal, I think, right now, is to get son to let go of some of the grandiose sense of self that he has, the pure lack of humility. He told me that my son looks down on those who are not at 'his' level of intelligence, which is not proper. He calls my son 'very cerebral and introspective', too much so. He thinks things, every little thing, through with a fine tooth comb.
I hope that your son changes his mind. How old is he? How's his relationship been with your husband? Did he ever accept him? What about his half siblings? Is he close with them?
My son was also given way more opportunities that he'd have if I did not marry. He has a LOT of reparation to do with myself and husband. He has said some HORRIBLE things to both of us, in drunken rages..and for some of them, he was fairly sober.
Your jaw would drop....
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DarkwingPsyduck
Active Member
My son is very lacking in humility. The psychologist who guided the speakerphone call gives me updates on son's therapy sessions. He says often that son shows narcissistic 'tendencies', but is not convinced (yet) that he has the actual personality disorder. Perhaps it's largely due to immaturity and/or the 'entitlement' mentality that Gen Y exhibits. Taken from a website:
"Millennials are often accused of having too strong a sense of entitlement, and their parents are often blamed for creating it in the first place. Often referred to as ‘helicopter parents’, the mums and dads of Generation Y are held responsible by many for telling their children that they can have and do anything, and that everything they do is an achievement. This – it is argued – has bred a generation convinced that they have done and will do things on unmatchable quality, and that rewards are due them for relatively little work or input."
I 'was' one of those helicopter parents.
The psychologist's goal, I think, right now, is to get son to let go of some of the grandiose sense of self that he has, the pure lack of humility. He told me that my son looks down on those who are not at 'his' level of intelligence, which is not proper. He calls my son 'very cerebral and introspective', too much so. He thinks things, every little thing, through with a fine tooth comb.
I hope that your son changes his mind. How old is he? How's his relationship been with your husband? Did he ever accept him? What about his half siblings? Is he close with them?
My son was also given way more opportunities that he'd have if I did not marry. He has a LOT of reparation to do with myself and husband. He has said some HORRIBLE things to both of us, in drunken rages..and for some of them, he was fairly sober.
He sounds a lot like me. I was always smarter than everybody in the room. This was a problem, because it prevented me from being truly open to any kind of instruction. Why listen to somebody dumber than me, after all? It is the exact opposite of humility. He needs to start considering the fact that he may very well be of above average intelligence, but CLEARLY not when it comes to living a healthy, productive life. In that area, we are pretty useless. Every subject has experts, and the people at his treatment facility are the experts in why he is there to begin with. He must humble himself, and accept that he clearly hasn't been successful on his own, and it is time to try something else. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Just an honest assessment of the problem shows that he cannot do it his way. He has tried many times, and always failed. Until he is ready to truly try something different, the odds are not in his favor, This is normal, though. I must have tried it that way hundreds of times before I finally got that. Intelligence obviously has no real part in that. Addiction is a mental disease. It affects geniuses and dull people the exact same way. Before addiction, intelligence is meaningless. Your IQ will not protect you from it's very real effects.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I may be in the minority, but im not going to own what didn't happen either nor listen endlessly to lies or delusions. My response to nonsense is usually, "im glad you got that out of your system. I have to go now.love you. Bye."
I dont want a relationshipbwith anyone, my kids included, based on the premise that I was horrible and responsible for their adult choices. I have already truthfully told all of my kids more thsn once that I know I made mistakes and am sorry. To me, that is enough. I would not listen to, "I use heroin because you divorced dad" eternally. That is not a relationship to me. That is an excuse for abuse.
I dont want a relationshipbwith anyone, my kids included, based on the premise that I was horrible and responsible for their adult choices. I have already truthfully told all of my kids more thsn once that I know I made mistakes and am sorry. To me, that is enough. I would not listen to, "I use heroin because you divorced dad" eternally. That is not a relationship to me. That is an excuse for abuse.
DarkwingPsyduck
Active Member
So you acknowledged the mistakes you did make, and owned up to them. That isn't easy. After having done that, there is NO reason for you to deal with false accusations. My sister is still doing this. Inexplicably, she is blaming my aunt and uncle. Which is really odd when you consider that they have only been a part of her life for a few years now. Before that, they may as well not have existed to her. I have been with them longer since I grew up in Reno, where they lived. Anyway, the accusations don't need to make sense to anybody else. It isn't an accurate representation of how they feel about you at all. Even when the lies are huge, and hurtful. As is the case with most aspects of an addict's behavior, it is about THEM. Not you. If they think they can benefit in some way, it is what we will do. But it is always about us, and our desires. Not so much your feelings.
DarkwingPsyduck
Active Member
What I mean is that, while certainly hurtful, it usually isn't about you. It doesn't make it okay, but the intention isn't to hurt you, it's to benefit us. Like the difference between homicide, and involuntary manslaughter, or criminal negligence. It isn't a real excuse, but it is different than premeditated murder.
rebelson
Active Member
SWOT,
I also have apologized to my son, more than once, for any and all parenting mistakes I made. I may have well not though. He will not put down the bowling ball.
DarkwingPsyduck
Active Member
You shouldn't be the one apologizing. At least not the ONLY one. He has much to apologize for. But an honest apology is not possible without honesty. And an apology without honesty isn't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin' it on.
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BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Rebelson, then you have done all you can. We all make mistakes. You should not have to listen to abusive, skewed tirades from your son when he knows you love him so much. I think their blame is manipulation to get us to cave in and give them all they want. You sound like more than just a good mom. Sounds like you were an exceptional mom
I often think about how some kids are clearly abused but seem to worship the abusive parent. Go figure.
I often think about how some kids are clearly abused but seem to worship the abusive parent. Go figure.
