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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 747294" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">Welcome GMA.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I am sorry you find yourselves in this tough, tough spot. The rest of us are right here with you. </span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">What comes to mind is something a wise member here told me about the second arrow described by Buddha. This is when we get hurt by somebody, and the pain was unavoidable and sharp. This is the kind of gut punch that comes from, say, an adult daughter stealing money, and then denying it, or basically saying <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/2012/censored2.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":censored2:" title="censored2 :censored2:" data-shortname=":censored2:" /> you, when you discover the theft. The second arrow is the AVOIDABLE pain that comes after this. Such as ruminating about whether or not it is our fault; or blaming ourselves for the conflict between our children; or worrying about what will come in the future, or comparing our kids with those of our sister who are doing oh so well (I do that), worrying things will never get better, or beating ourselves up because things have not changed.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">Each of these below are examples of the second arrow:</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">The second arrow is a product of our own mind. It is not a gut punch. It is avoidable. It is destructive. It does not help. We can learn to curb it to a very large degree.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">There is a third arrow too. That is the compulsive behavior that serves to insulate us self-destructively from the first and second arrows, by retreating to addictive and compulsive behaviors such as shopping, substance abuse, etc. (Unfortunately I have done this.)</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I am not minimizing the pain of having an adult child such as your daughter, and my own child. But we can limit how much we dwell in the chaos and the pain and the frustration that their lives engender. I am not taking a stand about withdrawing, because we do not have to cut off contact if we learn to insulate ourselves mentally and to not turn the arrows onto ourselves.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">Posting really, really helps. You'll get support and counsel, yes. But you will also discharge a lot of painful emotion and by reading what you write, and seeing it in black and white, you will be able to take stock and to evolve.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">There are a lot of pluses in your story. Really. Your daughter has a difficult personality and seems to have sought out somebody like her who thrives in chaos. There are many, many people like this. Yes. They do not usually morph into people who are laid back, tranquil and thoughtful. But why should she? She is who she is. She has a marriage and children, a college degree, loving parents, etc. This is way more than most other people have. Really. The issue here may be boundaries. Yours. Letting her in close so that she can hurt and betray you, when experience over time has shown that she does not warrant that kind of trust.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">Wishing that she were different is the second arrow. It is self-inflicted pain. She is who she is. (I do this too.)</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I hope you do not find my words to be harsh, or too direct. If we see that we have power over the situation (which is us, our own choices and expectations) we can act to help ourselves, and let go of the burden of focusing upon our children, who for the most part, at this point are beyond our reach.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 747294, member: 18958"] [LEFT][FONT=trebuchet ms][COLOR=rgb(20, 20, 20)]Welcome GMA. I am sorry you find yourselves in this tough, tough spot. The rest of us are right here with you. What comes to mind is something a wise member here told me about the second arrow described by Buddha. This is when we get hurt by somebody, and the pain was unavoidable and sharp. This is the kind of gut punch that comes from, say, an adult daughter stealing money, and then denying it, or basically saying :censored2: you, when you discover the theft. The second arrow is the AVOIDABLE pain that comes after this. Such as ruminating about whether or not it is our fault; or blaming ourselves for the conflict between our children; or worrying about what will come in the future, or comparing our kids with those of our sister who are doing oh so well (I do that), worrying things will never get better, or beating ourselves up because things have not changed. Each of these below are examples of the second arrow: The second arrow is a product of our own mind. It is not a gut punch. It is avoidable. It is destructive. It does not help. We can learn to curb it to a very large degree. There is a third arrow too. That is the compulsive behavior that serves to insulate us self-destructively from the first and second arrows, by retreating to addictive and compulsive behaviors such as shopping, substance abuse, etc. (Unfortunately I have done this.) I am not minimizing the pain of having an adult child such as your daughter, and my own child. But we can limit how much we dwell in the chaos and the pain and the frustration that their lives engender. I am not taking a stand about withdrawing, because we do not have to cut off contact if we learn to insulate ourselves mentally and to not turn the arrows onto ourselves. Posting really, really helps. You'll get support and counsel, yes. But you will also discharge a lot of painful emotion and by reading what you write, and seeing it in black and white, you will be able to take stock and to evolve. There are a lot of pluses in your story. Really. Your daughter has a difficult personality and seems to have sought out somebody like her who thrives in chaos. There are many, many people like this. Yes. They do not usually morph into people who are laid back, tranquil and thoughtful. But why should she? She is who she is. She has a marriage and children, a college degree, loving parents, etc. This is way more than most other people have. Really. The issue here may be boundaries. Yours. Letting her in close so that she can hurt and betray you, when experience over time has shown that she does not warrant that kind of trust. Wishing that she were different is the second arrow. It is self-inflicted pain. She is who she is. (I do this too.) I hope you do not find my words to be harsh, or too direct. If we see that we have power over the situation (which is us, our own choices and expectations) we can act to help ourselves, and let go of the burden of focusing upon our children, who for the most part, at this point are beyond our reach. [/COLOR][/FONT][/LEFT] [/QUOTE]
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