Numb...

[overitalready]

Hi, New to this and need help.
We own a small business and our adult son who is 34 works for us. We found out on Thursday, that our son stole money out of our dear clients wallet not just once..but twice.
They called my husband in to discuss, and to tell him that they really like our son and think there's something more going on.
Truth be told, our son has stolen property, cash, etc from us over the years. Since he was little. He lies, daily..almost by the hour seems like.
My whole life with him has been a struggle, to not trust but verify.
We thought he was on the straight road by going in the Corps, but alas he got kicked out. We still haven't seen a dd14 or been told an honest answer why. So then he gets a girl pregnant, marries her and has our Grandson. We give him a job, seems to be doing well.
He gets divorced, he is living here and there while still working for us, and shares custody of our Grandson.


I can't do this anymore, he needs some mental help, like an inpatient center. I know by NOT pressing charges I am part of the problem. However, how do I tell my grandson his father is a thief and liar?

How do we climb out of this yet again.

 

[Crayola13]

Has your son ever been to counseling? Is he against it?

 

[New Leaf]

Hi Overit
Welcome to the club no one wants to belong to, yet here we are. I am so sorry for your struggles with your son. It’s extra hard with grandchildren in the mix.

I can't do this anymore, he needs some mental help, like an inpatient center. I know by NOT pressing charges I am part of the problem. However, how do I tell my grandson his father is a thief and liar?

This is a tough one. The elephant in the room is that your son is 34, an adult. We don’t have any control over what our adult children do, but we can set boundaries for ourselves.
Pressing charges- that is up to you. I understand your concern.
Setting boundaries is especially hard with a grandchild in the midst of the mess. But, if you don’t put your foot down one way or the other, what is, will continue.
I think it’s especially difficult for parents when kids go wayward and we work to rein them in while they are growing up. We become extra focused on trying to steer them down the right path. It’s hard to let go and let God. You see them struggling as adults, making bad choices, it becomes a not so “merry” go round of the same old thing cycling again and again. It’s exhausting, dizzying and yes, we go numb with the pain of it. But, numbing ourselves is a way of not dealing with the real issue, that is, how do we live our lives continuously being mistreated by our adult children, whom we love? Maya Angelo said “When people show you who they are, believe them.”
You do have choices here, and none of them will be easy. The most important step in dealing with wayward adult children is to work hard at switching focus back to loving yourself. We get so entangled with their behavior and lifestyle that we put ourselves on the back burner. Learning how to love yourself is not selfish, it’s essential. It helps us to work on healthy boundaries and stop the madness within ourselves. We would not allow a stranger or friend to mistreat us, why do we continue to accept bad behavior, from our adult children?
There is a good article on detachment on the top of the PE forum page. It helps to read it and understand the mechanics of how deeply involved and enmeshed we can get with our adult children’s choices.
As far as telling your grandson his father is a thief and a liar. You don’t have to tell him anything. He will be able to figure things out for himself eventually, if his father continues down this path.
I’m so sorry for the pain you are going through. My hubs and I dealt with similar issues with two of our wayward daughters and grandchildren involved. Unfortunately, the lies and stealing were drug related, and the grandkids grew up watching both parents go down the wrong road. We tried desperately to “help”. CPS became involved, it was a nightmare. The grandkids became pawns in the “game” of it and years flew by living this cycle. So, I know how hard it is, Overit. I had to wake up from my numbness and entanglement when I found my son, then 14, sobbing uncontrollably asking me why we “allow people to live with us we can’t trust.” I had to take a good hard look at what we had put up with. That’s how I found this site. It helped tremendously to be able to write down what we lived through and get responses from folks who were going through the same pain. I wish I could tell you that my two daughters are doing well, they are not. But, I had to learn to let go, because they will do as they wish. It doesn’t mean I don’t love them, I do, it means I had to let go of my enmeshment, my desire to “fix” them. I have no control over their choices. It’s not easy, it takes daily practice and prayer not to be an emotional mess. But, my life has value. Your life has value, beyond the choices your adult son makes. I believe by taking the step to learn how to love ourselves and set healthy boundaries we are showing our adult children with our actions how to love themselves. That’s really what we want for them, to value themselves enough to make better choices. The only control we have over that, is to start with ourselves. Show them, one step at a time.
You are so worth the effort.
Much love and (((hugs)))
New Leaf

 

[Copabanana]

the Corps, but alas he got kicked out. We still haven't seen a dd14

Hello overit

We all know what compelled you to involve your son in your business even though you knew his history was problematic and compromised. We, all of us, have been there.

So, where do we go from here?

I agree with New Leaf, that the crux of the power and the responsibility is in you. I don't know if it is a good or bad thing that the clients who were stolen from are being so caring and trying to bend over backwards to think of your son as having problems beyond pure thievery, but the thing is, where and how does this stop?

There are two sets of problems here, as I see it.

One, is to recognize and to respond to your son, as he really is, and in terms of what he really needs. What he DOES NOT NEED (from my way of thinking) is more trying on your part to give him opportunities and chances.

Two, we can't alter our children's behavior and choices, but we can protect ourselves, and no longer enable them.

I am trying to figure things out here. A crime has been committed by your son against these clients, however because he was acting within the business the business is responsible. So that means you. So that means, your son really stole from the business. The question is, what to do? You don't tell us how large a sum is involved. And I am understanding your son and your grandchild live with you.

You have decisions to make. First, there is whether or not to file charges. Second, will your son continue to work in the business? Third, will he and his son continue to live with you? *Upon re-reading, I see that he doesn't live with you. Whew. One less problem.

The thing is you are victims of a crime. And this may be a felony crime, depending upon how large a sum this is. That this is serious, I don't need to tell you.

Have you or your husband spoken to your son? Do you think your son has a serious mental illness? Are there addictions involved? Spree behavior? The thing is, all of this is your son's business. A lot of people choose to not deal responsibly with their issues. My son, included.

Bottom line, you knew your son had an ongoing and longstanding propensity to steal, and knowing that you allowed him to be in a situation where he could re-victimize you and steal from your clients. There is no judgement here, but there is responsibility on your part.

I know you wanted to help him and give him a chance. But the reality is the best predictor of what anybody is going to do, how they will act, is how they have acted before. (As New Leaf so eloquently tells us.) Unless they decide to change. And deciding to change requires commitment, action, and consistency.

In your son's case, the trying and commitment and action have come from YOU and YOUR HUSBAND, not your son. This is what has to change.

You have a crisis situation here, but after that is dealt with the important changing must come from you and your husband, as New Leaf writes.

I know the pain. My son is 34 years old too. He has a whole other set of problems, but I have been through similar.

I hope you keep posting. There are people here on this forum who will help you figure this out, step by step. Welcome.

 

[Copabanana]

One painful thing I have had to accept is that not everybody lives the way I do or I believe is the right way. Even family members. Even the person I love most in the world. My son.

I can only choose how I want to live, and work towards those goals. My son is responsible to make the life he can. If my efforts to give him a leg up end up in chaos or conflict or my being ill (all of which have happened) I can't help him. I can't even begin to describe how long it took me to accept this simple truth.

For the longest time I could not bear the pain of turning my son away and preferred to suffer myself. I finally saw that taking on all of this suffering was killing me, and not helping my son at all. And still, I didn't stop. Until something terrible happened. And I realized my life was at stake. Only when I was forced to change, did I do so.

And so, I changed. It required a great deal of distance from my son. I was only able to change if I limited contact. He is too triggering to me. And as I said, I saw it was life or death, for me. Had I gone on I would no longer be the person I was. And so, I changed.

The reason that our help does not help our children is because all it does is change their circumstances. We give. We give a job. We give a home. We give money. They take. There is no changing they are required to do. It's same old, same old.

What changes a person is their free choice, the voluntary changing of behavior step by step, moment by moment, one day at a time. There is no other way.

You mention an inpatient facility for your son. Unless your son has a severe psychotic illness, he has some degree of free choice. He can choose to get therapy. He can choose to take medication. He can choose to go to 12-step groups. He can choose to go to an outpatient program for people who lie and steal. There are many of these.

There are so many things that people can decide to do, if they want. What we learn on this site is to give our children the respect to allow them the opportunity to be self-determining and to take responsibility for their lives. This is the only thing that gives them a chance to change, in my view. Nothing at all comes for free.

 

[Nomad]

What the others have said is excellent.

Some misc thoughts I had was to have your son make restitution to the clients he stole from. If he can’t, of course, you must. Perhaps garnish his wages until he pays you back in that case.

IF you give him another (final) chance to continue working for you…to consider might be restricting contact with clients (if at all possible).

Consider letting him know, perhaps formally in writing, if he is caught stealing from the business or a client, you will not only call the police , but immediately terminate his employment.

(If you don’t want to press charges…at least terminate his employment…I DO believe there needs to be fast consequences to this behavior. It can’t continue)

However, you need to stick to it. This must be a real thing that really happens should he steal again. Logical consequences. Enough.

You can insist he go to a program or therapy in order to stay at your place of business…but I suspect this would have limited success.

Bottom line is he very likely needs to feel the consequences of his actions.

IF he messes up repeated extra chances amd continues to falter, it’s a sad and hard lesson for all…but perhaps an important lesson for the grandson. A sorrowful one…but an important one and in the end…perhaps a good one.

Consider support for YOU. Families Anonymous is a helpful group. But there are others. And private therapy, even if it’s short term, can be a balm.

 

[mindinggaps]

What changes a person is their free choice, the voluntary changing of behavior step by step, moment by moment, one day at a time. There is no other way.

You mention an inpatient facility for your son. Unless your son has a severe psychotic illness, he has some degree of free choice. He can choose to get therapy. He can choose to take medication. He can choose to go to 12-step groups. He can choose to go to an outpatient program for people who lie and steal. There are many of these.

There are so many things that people can decide to do, if they want. What we learn on this site is to give our children the respect to allow them the opportunity to be self-determining and to take responsibility for their lives. This is the only thing that gives them a chance to change, in my view. Nothing at all comes for free.

Dear @Copabanana - I always find your words extremely prescient and reading this I just wanted to say that while it can be hard to hear for parents, based on my own experiences this is completely accurate.