PLEASE help me with our 12 year old son!

[nikiani]

difficult child is not on any medications as of right now and hasn't been for close to a year. The only medications he was on, were various things for ADHD but we think that that was a misdiagnosis. The medications did not help at all. TerryJ2 I agree that he may need a mood stabilizer also. I do not believe though that a mood stabilizer is going to do a whole lot with our view on the entire situation We are trying to be proactive with this and not let denial or the "love conquers all" keep us from doing what is looking to be best to protect our family and difficult child from himself. This is so difficult. We are getting an alarm installed on his door this weekend. After MUCH reading, suggestions from everyone here and other places....we have decided to approach this objectively and focus on the future.
The test results are driving me INSANE. I have literally been waiting months and have gotten on their case about this. difficult children psychotherapist has also contacted them. She really wants them and needs them to move forward and get closer to making an official diagnosis....we are stuck with NO diagnosis as of right now which puts a halt on everything else. Now the place is saying that they are missing paperwork from difficult children teachers. I don't even know what the paperwork will do because difficult child was only in school for a few months and I don't think that's an adequate amount of time for any one of his teachers to rate his behavior and actions close enough to do an evaluation...
I feel so very stuck right now because I don't see anything moving along and my anxiety is getting to be at an all time high with all of this going on.....Theres not enough Prozac in the world.......

 

[BusynMember]

I would like to add something to Terry's comment as she is usually right on the money, but not in this case.

Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) kids do not do things impulsiviely and regret them later. They do them after thinking about them and have no regrets at all because they lack any/all ability to care about other people. People are just an ends to a means. Dad gives me money. Mom bakes me cookies. The younger kids are here and if I feel like it, I will torment them or sexually perp on them. And scare them. I'm angry so I'll burn the house down, but wcan't understand why everyone is so upset. What's the big deal? That's Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). If your son has a conscience, he doesn't have full blown Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) kids learn in the crib that people are untrustworthy and only they can take care of their needs and it continues on from there, to varying degrees. Yours seems very severe. If he learns how to dismantle the alarm, it will be useless. I'd use a videocamera, however, as stated, ours DID learn how to break it. by the way, not a medication in the world exists that can give a child a conscience, stop the child from acted out sexually, or from killing animals and hurting people. In fact, since medication trials can make certain kids worse, you never know. medications could amp him up and make him even more dangerous.

The only real way to protect your kids is to get him out of the house. He will not miss you. He may be mad that his comfort was disrupted, and that could make him dangerous in the future, which is why we made dang sure that nobody ever told our ex-son where we moved.

If this kid already squeezed a hamster to death, he is not going in the right direction. We found out that our ex-son had killed neighbor's animals, but we didn't find out until our kids told us after he left. He also tried to perp on an epileptic, non-verbal child in school. Everyone thought he was so sweet to befriend this child who had no other friends. Of course, ex-son always smiled brilliantly for the teachers and opened doors for them and said please and thank you.

I would do all I could to find a place for him where he has no access to your babies and your pets. You have been warned. Sorry to be so jaded, but this child doesn't seem "right" and with his early years...you got him after he was probably already damaged. It is not your fault. (((Hugs))).

 

[nikiani]

Liahona, I have tried the shadowing thing with Ian.....we have tried solitary confinement....which consisted of us taking everything out of his room except for his bed, a lamp, and a pillow and his blankets....he obviously was allowed to use the bathroom and eat regular meals & shower daily...we did this for a few days and it was one of the only things that seemed to help. (for a Very short period of time) I just want to mention that this "solitary confinement" was recommended by a pediatrician. And YES, we have been tempted to put a padlock on his door, but have thought about what the ramifications would be from CPS thinking that we were harming this child rather than protecting our others and ourselves. We try to keep a very good thought process when it comes to that because I think you are all right, WHEN CPS comes....not IF....he was only in the public school for a few months this year and like I mentioned, his father and I are apparently complete abusive jerks according to him....and I don't know HALF of what hes told various people. Its is only gonna get worse....I am so scared of the day when someone actually believes him.
MidwestMom, You are so wise...he would learn how to dismantle an alarm in 10 minutes or less. He could probably dismantle an entire car engine and have it put back together in less than a day. He is obsessive about K'NEX and Legos....and while he is very talented with building....there is an almost bizarre side of his mind that cant stop when it comes to these things....(Its very hard to describe)
You are also right about NO conscience.....we have been questioning for years...."where is his sense of regret?....conscience??....remorse?" There is NONE. He can cry the tears, say the right words, con the right people for attention and gifts but when it comes down to it, he will NEVER and has NEVER ever apologized for anything unless he was told to do so or was explained over and over that it was the right thing to do when he hurt someone.....We have hit an opposite extreme now at 12 yrs old where he will say "i'm sorry" for everything....I think hes figured out that it somewhat kept people from catching on to his behavior. His ability to try and dominate every conversation & situation is just simply unreal. The most simple thing....."Ian, put the lasagna away please"....turns into a huge discussion about "what kind of container, where it should go, why he cant put it away, if its still hot, etc etc..."This is ALL **** day with him.
MidwestMom, Please don't apologize for being blunt, honest, and to the point. You are right, there is not a single medication in the world that will give our son a conscience....I'm glad that you aren't sugarcoating things because it leaves us with the harsh reality that something needs to be done NOW. My husband has already told me that he will do whatever he needs to do no matter how hard it is, to protect the rest of the family. ...Again,THANK YOU ALL....I hope someone else is able to read thru this thread and get some help and ideas....This is not what ANY parent EVER imagines that they will have to deal with....even on the most small scale....

 

[BusynMember]

Nik, you know where I am.

I do not think most people understand the horrors of living with Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). it is not anything like other disorders. These kids are dangerous, not to themselves, but to OTHERS and, if you love animals like me, to them as well. And they sure know how to get stuff out of us. Ex-son never said "I love you" but when he wanted money, I'd get a hug and a big "I love you." This was a while before asking and when I was still feeling all warm and fuzzy about my sweet boy, then he'd ask if he could go to the gas station down the block and have some money. He never mentioned that he stole things while there and he was probably so charming to the workers there that they never suspected all the stuff he took. In the end, he would buy something small and pay for it.

We were told ex-son was cognitively delayed. All I can say is (and this is the nice version) ball squat. He was a brilliant kid who was always thinking and planning, although never in the positive. Funnily, he also liked to build things. Maybe both had a little autism in them, but that certainly is not treatable considering the Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). It's not worth even exploring because the other issues are so much more profound. These Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) kids are NOT heroes. They whack around much younger children and innocent animals. They don't like the feeling of pain and do not challenge bigger, stronger kids. My ex-son NEVER messed with my teenage daughter, just the little ones. He even held a knife up and threatend to stab them if they didn't perp on him or one another. Did we even think he thought about sex? No. He behaved in a very asexual way, but perping isn't really about sex. It's about power and control and sadism. It is not different than an adult when the child is thirteen and the victim is seven or five.

I will never forget when ex-son came in to tell me the dog was dead. He carried on and screamed and cried worse than all the others in the family put together. Yet my youngest told me, again after he left, that he'd strangled him with a rope and had forced her and Sonic to watch him do it. Man, he could turn on the waterworks when it suited him. Just typing about this is giving me a weird feeling all over again.

I absolutely feel I have to warn people with dangerous kids that not all children can be saved or helped. If they were destroyed in their first three years and are acting like grown up antisocials already, there is not much you can do for them. He did get good help once he was taken away to a home for young sexual perps, but he perped there too. And he never did learn why he did the things that he did. He had no clue. His social worker had to report to us until the adoption was dissolved and all the reports were that, "He is friendly and engaging and has no idea why he does what he does. The only remorse he has is being caught and arrested. His sadness is for himself, not anyone else."

That was the last time we even considered adopting an older child. I tell everyone to only adopt infants.

Funny. Foster parent/adoption classes don't cover the horror of full blown attachment disorder, yet it is very common in older adopted kids and your son is just like a child who had been adopted at age four.

Another friend I have adopted two little kids...one was two and was was one. She almost lost her mind as both of them were crazy at the beginning, however the little girl really got it together early on. The boy is now in a permanant Residential Treatment Center (RTC) since admitting to her that he is attracted to little girls and they have a younger daughter. He also destroyed their house and the police were there all the time. 150 couples sought to adopt this pair and they got them.

Well, they are happy about the girl. The boy can never live at home again due to his attraction to very young girls (like age five).

Ok, enough of this. I wish you the best and, like I said, I am here. And you are not the only parent facing this sort of puzzling child who disaster seems to follow around (because he causes the disasters). Hugs!!!!

 

[Liahona]

Can the therapist call the neuropsychologist explain the safety issue and just get what ever the neuropych can give?

MWM is right that some kids can't be saved. BUT, you don't know if yours is one of them or not yet. And even if you can't 'save' (bring him back to family life) him you can still set up the best life possible for him. (Where he can't hurt anyone and others can't hurt him.) You'd just be parenting from different addresses.

We also had taken everything out of his room but the dresser and bed. therapist was giving his approval for it. My mother was horrified. Took difficult child 1 a year to earn all his toys back. It didn't really phase him. He just learned to do without toys. Glad it worked for you though.

I am also glad your husband is supportive of you and the other kids.

 

[BusynMember]

I'm here now (wink).

As long as he's out of the house, it's fine to keep parenting him.

 

[nikiani]

This was already 2 years back or more that it SOMEWHAT worked Liahona... As of now, He has been grounded from his bicycles (which he adores) and all of his other toys like K'NEX and Legos (which he also adores) It has been months, and he doesn't have a care in the world about any of it. Today....he was looking for nightcrawlers....and decided to jump into a tree.. He apparently fell down and for 45 minutes, danced around playing yet. He then came into the house and started whimpering for the next hour. I told him to get some ice for it because I was not running him to the E.R. again....We were there a few weeks ago when he thought it would be cool to screw around at school with a desk ( and of COURSE he tried to lie about that) and managed to split his finger wide open which required 8 stitches. I of course at the time called my best friend who is a nurse and had her grab him from school and get him to the E.R.(she was MUCH closer) His first and only comment was...(without tears) was.."why wouldn't my mom find someone to take the girls so SHE could come get me"....My best friend is as close as any family member could be and she knows Ian inside and out. I finally got to the hospital after a few minutes of him being admitted....and he says..."why couldn't you drop the girls somewhere?"....I told him....Ian you are my son and I tried to get here as fast as I could....this was the best I could do! He then proceeded to have a complete meltdown for the entire time...but was able to laugh if I entertained him....it was creepy.
So of course today, I'm sick of this ****...and Dad mentions that I should take Ian to the E.R. I said NO, YOU take him....I'm not gonna be treated that way again and I refuse to coddle this **** with him. I said, Yes it would be terrible if there is a fracture and we did nothing about it....Ian goes with Dad, Has a SLIGHT fracture and comes home with his arm in a sling and proceeds to give me every detail about how I was not right (in a round about sort of way) I made sure to make it clear that if he even TRIED to make it appear as though it was our fault, nobody would believe him. He gave me the "blank stare". He then thanked Daddy for taking him to the hospital. Dad reminded him that it was BOTH of our decisions. Ian looks at me and says. "oh well thanks". I'm sooooo livid with this child right now because I can already see him trying to blame one of us for his stupid decision.....I'm tired of not feeling like I can treat him like a normal child/mother.....because all he will do is use it against me and his father....The minute I show compassion...he takes FULL advantage of it.
Oh....I forgot, there was an argument too about his arm before we took him in. According to Ian, I should feel sorry for him because as he said..." You need to feel sorry for me because I AM YOUR SON!"
Good thing nobody heard the rest of this ridiculous argument.......Sorry for venting.....I may lose my mind....

 

[Liahona]

This is a great place to vent. You'll find that even with different diagnosis's there are very similar behaviors for our kids. There are some behaviors that are specific for one diagnosis or the other but the entitlement, arguing, meltdowns, and weird thinking cause many vents.

 

[TerryJ2]

Boy, this is a tough one.
MWM, I guess I've only known "slightly" Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) kids because they did have remorse but it took yrs of consistency and discipline and therapy to work things out. I thought that only severe RAD or sociopathy were in the realm of not having a conscience.
Nikiani, definitely, he doesn't think like you do (or like I do!) but he still has to follow your rules. Period.
I'm glad you found this place.

 

[nikiani]

Thank you TerryJ2! I am SO very thankful that I found this place as well....It has really given me some coping skills as we are learning about all of this and trying to deal with it daily....I do think that our son is verging on the more severe side of Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and if it isn't dealt with carefully and quickly, it will develop into something much more severe down the road. As far as the structure and discipline....we have been doing so much of that for years just to help him deal day to day. It is so very exhausting "babysitting" his every move. It's been years. There has really been no progress on his end. If anything, he seems to be doing more and more poorly and entertaining bizarre ideas and behavior patterns. It has been an absolutely terrible week with him and he has really started a whole new level of just openly defying his father and myself. Just when we think he cant take it to the next level. He does. He told my best friends daughters that he was going to kill them soon if they didn't stop telling us about his weird behavior and things he does. The 8 year old is now scared to death that he is going to hurt her. His psychotherapist has been off for the last few weeks and he needs to see her SOON. I am just hoping and praying that we can get the ball rolling and get some official diagnosis made so that we can start to move forward with some of these things and try to deal with this. I don't wish this situation on ANY parent.

 

[DDD]

Have you explored CHINS as a possible path? Has he had a complete neuro/psychological examination? Hugs DDD

 

[BusynMember]

Hi there.
If he has no conscience he won't get better. The desire to please others a nd not harm people or animals is what makes most of us able to change. If you are missing a conscience, there is no incentive.
Did you think of foster care? Some foster parents only take very difficult kids and are able to handle this sort of dangerous behavior.
I knew a man who adopted nine kids, all with Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) diagnosis., all boys. Only one is still speaking to him. The others are in jail or have accused him of sexual abuse. He was the man who told me that our kid had severe Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) before we saw it. And we didn't believe him at first. He was just too charming to us and to all adults.
Catch me if you feel like it.

 

[Liahona]

What steps are being put in place so he doesn't try to kill them? This might be to the point you need to call cps. Your friend could call them but it would be better if you did. I assume you have a lawyer on retainer from the fight with ex? This might be a question to put to him (or her) what is the point you are legally required to call cps. Or you could ask his therapist. When is she coming back? Have you gotten the results from the testing?

When difficult child 1 left for Residential Treatment Center (RTC) I was amazed at the change in our household. I had gotten used to living in a state of extreme vigilance and didn't even realize it. It took a few months to get used to.

 

[TerryJ2]

I had gotten used to living in a state of extreme vigilance and didn't even realize it. It took a few months to get used to.

What a shame, but I know exactly what you mean.
To live on high alert like that uses up so much cortisol and reduces our immune systems, it's amazing we're all still here.

 

[elbogrease]

Thanks for your post. I've been doing lots of research on this, talking to top experts and parents and looking for therapies that work.
I'd welcome the chance to talk with you.
New to this website.
Is there a way you could email me?

 

[BusynMember]

If you meant me, send me PM

 

[InsaneCdn]

elbogrease - please start a new thread, and tell us a bit about yourself and your situation. You will get more responses that way.

 

[nikiani]

I wanted to give an update on everything going on. Our son has FINALLY been diagnosed with multiple issues! We can move forward! Its a small step but it's in the right direction.....He was diagnosed with ADD, ODD, Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) (scariest) and slight Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) & conduct disorder (bipolar).I apologize if i'm not using the correct terms and abbreviations.....this is all new for me yet. I just had to thank each and every one of you who have helped us get to this point. We are currently waiting on paperwork for treatment centers and our son is just starting with the county and the ONE program they offer for situations like this. I have been blessed with so many helpful, honest, blunt, and kind people here. I don't know what I would have done without all of you. We are still living in hell but I am starting to think that things may start to change and that we will be able to love our son from "afar"....There is one particular lady who I owe so much to (Midwest Mom)....THANK YOU! Every day is such a struggle/battle.....but I feel like theres some hope for my family and my baby girls!

 

[BusynMember]

Nikani, your welcome, but I'd rather not have to tell anyone about Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD)!!! Still, I am so glad you are getting help and feeling better!!!! Please keep us updated.

You most certainly have my heartfelt prayers.