PLONK! - difficult child came home drunk....

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SunnyFlorida</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not seeing you take that chill pill yet Mikey :doctor: Now...take that deep breath and r e l a x...think of that nice place in your head.....

You can't stop self destruction. You can't change what doesn't want to change. You can only change your reaction to it.</div></div>

Thanks SF - took a couple of those pills (I have a 6-month scrip), but they've already worn off. difficult child is out tonight with one of the Pothead Posse, been gone all day. Finally got a call from him about 45 minutes ago asking to stay over the night.

This is three days after he stumbled in so drunk he was choking on his own puke, and he asks this....

:smile:

wife immediately said "No", because the only reason he hangs with this kid is to partake of the herb. difficult child offers to "let us speak with his mom to make sure everything is okay".

Fine. Let me talk to her.

"Uh, I'm out in the car - I'll call you when I get inside.". Okay. I wait for a bit, then I get a call back saying that I couldn't talk to ganjaguy's mom because she "just had an MRI, has two herniated discs in her neck, is going to have to have two needles stuck in her neck, and could be paralyzed, and has gone up to bed crying and isn't talking to anyone".

:surprise:

Uh, okay. wife says "You need to come home then, if his house is in such turmoil."

&lt;argue, argue, more arguing.....&gt;

Finally, Mr. McWeedyBrain says "I'm sleeping over" and hangs up.

:grrr:

5 minutes later, I pull up in front of the kid's house, call difficult child and tell him to come outside. He storms out demanding to know "what the HE_LL I'm doing there!" Hunh? You just deliberately disobeyed your Mom, then hung up on her. THAT's why I'm here.

He replies "That's retarded! You can't keep me from sleeping over! You're stupid!"

Hunh?

I shout back "Yes we can keep you from sleeping over. You may hate us, you may hate living with us, but until December neither one of us has a choice about it. 'Till then, we're responsible for you, and I will not...."

At that time, his friend walks outside and lights up a cig. difficult child immediately says "Fine, I'll be home around midnight". As I'm leaving, I call out to pothead #2 and say "Hey xxxx, I'm very sorry to hear about your Mom". Pothead says "Hunh?", then whispers to difficult child. He then turns around and says "Oh, thanks".

:grrr: :grrr:

I stare for a minute, and then say "Your mom isn't sick, is she?" He says "yes, she's very sick" and then they both go inside. Maybe she is sick, but my Daddy Sense (better known as the "BS Detector") is going off in full hoot about now.

Yowza. And we aren't even a full week into the summer break yet? I can't wait to see what other fun and frivolity life with difficult child and the Pothead Posse will bring my way in the coming months.

Oh well. Back to putting together his "financial outlook" for if (or more likely, when) he moves out in December. It's a sad thing that I'm starting to take a perverse pleasure in seeing just how hard and expensive it's going to be for my poor, spoiled, naive suburb dwelling white-boy wannabe drugthug to make it on his own.

Then again, he'll probably take the same amount of perverse pleasure in living in as much squalor as he can stand, just to spite us.

Blech. And I think I'm out of bile to vent, so I'll quit now.

Mikey

 

[KFld]

I wrote a long reply yesterday and then when I went to submit it our internet went down at work!!!

Anyway, when my difficult child was at the point of your difficult child, before he became a full blown addict, I went away for a week and it was so stressful leaving him home with husband. Reason being, I was at the point of total enabling and now allowing or trusting husband to make decisions because I was too busy protecting difficult child. It was a horrible week and I couldn't wait to come home.

You and wife seem to be more on the same page then my husband and I were back then, so I would suggest you and wife deciding together how you should handle consequences etc. if rules are not followed while she is gone. Maybe the two of you should talk to difficult child together, set the rules and let him know if he breaks them, you and wife will decide together when she gets home, where it will go from there. This way he doesn't feel he can manipulate and play you while she is gone and you don't have to freak out about how you will handle all of this.

Just a thought.

Sorry your summer is starting off with such a BANG!!!

 

[DDD]

I know this is presumptious, Mikey, but as a recovering addict would it help you to attend a few meetings? Although I don't
yet think I have an alcohol "problem"..I realize that using Cutty
to survive all these years since I no longer have cigarettes as
my coping method may be an indicator of addiction in the future. My Dad was a member of AA. Even though he never fell off the wagon, when there was alot of stress at home
he would quietly say "I'm going out for awhile" and head to an
AA meeting. With four teens at home there was stress quite often
and, like my husband and I, he found his tolerance level reduced as
each of us reached "the stage" of causing problems. He coped with school problems, social problems, mouthy issues etc. much
more easily than he did when my brother would roll in drunk as a
skunk....or one of my sisters or I got tipsy.

Maybe your sons choices are particularly difficult for you to cope with because of your previous experiences. At meetings you
would have the comfort of speaking freely to others with the intimate knowledge. It could serve as a net for you when wife and
easy child are gone.

Hope you don't mind my intrusion. My intentions are honorable
even if I do "cross the line" occasionally. Hugs. DDD

 

[Kathy813]

Mikey,

Have you checked with your police department about whether you legally have to have your son in your home until he turns 18?

The reason that I ask is that when we were having problems with our difficult child when she was 17, I was told by the police that although we couldn't "kick her out" at 17, that if she left on her own accord we didn't have to let her return.

Seems to me that announcing that he is going to spend the night out even when you have said no is voluntarily leaving your home and you might not have to let him come back home.

It sounds to me like your son is going to turn your home into a war zone and I don't think you should let that happen ~ especially for your easy child.

If you can't kick him out, can you send him to a Residential Treatment Center (RTC)?

I know what you are going through although our difficult child was more sneaky in her defiance and behavior. It will take a toll on your health, your sanity, and even more importantly, on your easy child. I'm just now seeing how much an effect it had on our easy child.

~Kathy

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kathy813</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you checked with your police department about whether you legally have to have your son in your home until he turns 18?

The reason that I ask is that when we were having problems with our difficult child when she was 17, I was told by the police that although we couldn't "kick her out" at 17, that if she left on her own accord we didn't have to let her return.</div></div>

Haven't asked that specific question - just Googled emancipation law in Kansas, which says I have to keep him until he's 18 and out of school (dropouts count), or until he "abandons the homestead". Need to check on that, but I think that if he runs away before 18, he's a runaway. 18 and over, he's on his own. But I'll check.....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It sounds to me like your son is going to turn your home into a war zone and I don't think you should let that happen ~ especially for your easy child.</div></div>

Yeah you betcha. But then, he'll turn around and act like he can't live without us; or at least, that's the facade he shows to wife. All I get lately is the grunting, testosterone-poisoned neanderthal. I grunt back, but I don't seem to have the right dialect because he just ignores me....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't kick him out, can you send him to a Residential Treatment Center (RTC)?</div></div>

Not at his age - no Residential Treatment Center (RTC) will take him against his will unless he's a danger to himself or others. And being a disrespectful, pot-smoking lout doesn't come close.

Funny thing is, when he talks to wife, he actually talks about wanting a future: wanting to go to school, wanting to start his own business, wanting a life, etc... How's he going to get there on the path he's currently traveling? I dunno, but he's alienating the very people who can help him get what he wants.

Life with Sir Pots-A-Lot is never dull!

Mikey

 

[Mikey]

re: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted By: Kathy813
Have you checked with your police department about whether you legally have to have your son in your home until he turns 18?

The reason that I ask is that when we were having problems with our difficult child when she was 17, I was told by the police that although we couldn't "kick her out" at 17, that if she left on her own accord we didn't have to let her return.</div></div>

Haven't asked that specific question - just Googled emancipation law in Kansas, which says I have to keep him until he's 18 and out of school (dropouts count), or until he "abandons the homestead". Need to check on that, but I think that if he runs away before 18, he's a runaway. 18 and over, he's on his own. But I'll check.....</div></div>

Spent two hours yesterday at the Juvie Intake Center, talking to an intake coordinator and to two Sheriff's deputies who work out of the center. Basically, there's a limbo that a few kids fall into like my son: 18, and they're "legally" separate from their parents. However, still in high school, so parents are "obligated" to continue to provide for him until he's out of school. Also, if we continue to claim him on our tax return, that means we're treating him as a dependant - which means we tacitly accept responsibility for both his welfare and his actions.

Those last two items are important, because they aren't "law", but if he ends up in front of a judge while in this limbo status, those are items that will be considered.

I ended up at the center yesterday when McWeedy didn't come home after work (got off at 1pm), and wasn't answering his phone as usual. When I finally got him to answer around 4:30, he was so stoned he could barely speak. I'd had enough, and went to the center to find out what my legal options are, and what the county will actually do if I involve them.

Bottom line is that in our county, I can take as hard a line as I want with my son until he's 18. The intake coordinator said that they're so tough that they actually prosecute minors for truancy (usually at the request of parents). But they cautioned, once he's in the system, he's in the system. I lose control of his future, but then again, do I really have any control at all?

Called PotMonster back, told him to sober up and get home within 3 hours, or to get a ride if he wasn't sober enough to drive. I also told him for the first time that he was at a point where he'd gone too far, and that he had to make a decision whether to respect the integrity of our family - and remain a member of it - or continue to fight my efforts to maintain a stable home for my kids - with consequences he didn't want to think about. I made that call while in front of both deputies and the intake guy, from the Juvie facility.

"You want us to go pick him up?" one of the deputies asked?

"No, give me a chance to tell him how close to the edge he is, and choose his direction". I couldn't say the real reason was that he was stoned at Pothead Paradise, and I've already been warned what would happen if the police suddenly started banging on the door there.

But this is it. The only reason I don't start the hard road this week is because (a) I'll be out of town over the weekend, and wife is scared I'll leave her with a confrontation she can't handle, and (b) he starts his "medical study" next week, and I'd like to get through the first two days of that study since it's a full physical and psychiatric workup (they need to make sure there's nothing other than ADD and SA, otherwiswe he can't participate in the study). As bad as things are, I don't want to blow the top off only to find that he's BiPolar (BP) or something else.

It is a bit of a relief, though, now having a timeline in place for dealing with this. It's also a relief to know exactly what services (and other functions) the county "offers" to parents in our position. Unfortunately, here in podunk, there isn't a lot of "real" crime, so the local PD has a lot of experience dealing with teens who have too much money, too much time, and not enough to do. Communities like ours draw drug dealers and other miscreants the way blood draws sharks. They (the "authorities") will be there if/when I need them. Let's hope I don't.

Last night, when PotMonster came home, he strolled in like there was nothing wrong. wife and I weren't buying it. Finally, I walked in on him and his girlfriend and told him one thing:

"After the second meeting with your therapist last year, he predicted that you would escalate your acting out up to the point where we had no choice but to put you out of our house. And that you'd do this so you could leave without feeling guilty, and could then spend the next few years in anger, blaming us for all the bad things that happened and then kicking you to the curb - which would then give you all the excuse you need to stay stoned day and night.

You need to think about how close you are to making that prediction a reality. Only, if that happens know that it is your actions that caused your ultimate demise, not our reaction to your life choices. If that happens, the only person to blame will be the one staring back at you in the mirror."

I then turned and left.

Mikey

PS: Sad but true: both of the deputies I spoke to had difficult child's, and had been in exactly the same position as I am now. You'd think the fact that they were police officers would make it easier for them, but it didn't. Guess I don't feel quite as bad now about my own son's direspect for his parents, if those kids wouldn't listen to someone who could literally haul them off to juvie (and in one case, did just that). Welcome to the real world, Mikey

 

[meowbunny]

Maybe rather than threatening him with his having to leave his home, you should just take him to your police department the next time he comes home drunk or stoned? Let him know the choice is his -- either get straight or enjoy a visit or two or three to juvie. If he chooses to not come home, you then have the option of whether or not you care to let him come home. He's "emancipated his homestead" if he doesn't come home at the time you have given him to be home.

It sounds like your PD is equipped to handle teens in his condition and it certainly has to be better than having him on the streets high and living and hanging who knows where. And, let's face it, a juvie record is far better than an adult criminal record or a DUI.

Why are you allowing him to drive a car when you know he gets high? Do you really think he was in any condition to drive after three hours as stoned as you described him to be? Will you be able to live with yourself if he gets in an accident while high and kills himself or an innocent?

 

[Mikey]

MB: Good points. But the PD recommended that I call them, rather than bring him to them, should I decide to do that.

And no, it wasn't a good idea to have him drive. But considering where he was, and the known animosity those people have towards me (and they obviously recognize my car, since they tell McWeedy when I "cruise" their neighborhood looking for him), it wouldn't have been a good idea to show up there myself.

Call me crazy (and you will), but the one thing PotMonster has never done is drive under any influence. This actually came up in one of the arguments where he was trying to convince me he was a "smart stoner" (is there such a thing?) :rofl:

In trying to make his case, he said that ne never drives under the influence, or with anyone who is. He either waits it out or gets a ride. And to his somewhat dubious credit, while he may have come home stoned, he's never come home incoherent or obviously impared when he was the one driving.

In fact, most of the times he's refused to come home he now admits were because he was too drunk or stoned to drive. AT the time, we thought he was being his typical, disrespectful, defiant self. Maybe he was, but possibly for different reasons than we thought.

I may be wrong, but that may be the only functioning neuron he has in his grassified brain. So at the time, telling him to stay put and dry out or get a ride home was the best I could hope for. Next time, I might not do that, but that'll be next time.

Thanks for the input, though. I appreciate it when someone makes me think about my actions - I really do.

Mikey

PS: according to the police, now that he's 17, these won't be "juvie" records if he gets involved with the police. They go on his big-boy records forever. The only difference is which system he gets processed by: juvie or adult.

 

[Mikey]

MB, re: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If he chooses to not come home, you then have the option of whether or not you care to let him come home. He's "emancipated his homestead" if he doesn't come home at the time you have given him to be home.</div></div>

Actually, this is the grey area the folks at Juvie were talking about. Until he's 18, he can't emancipate himself, nor can I emancipate him (unless I turn custody of him over to the state). Until he's 18, if he's gone and refusing to come home, he's a runaway - but he's still MY runaway.

That "abandoning the homestead" thing is after he turns 18, and involves his actively leaving the home to set up living somewhere else. Again, going on a three-day hookah binge at the local pothead hangout doesn't count.

It's a pickle. And from the perspective of the PD and the folks at Juvie, if he won't respect the family rules and his parents, then the only thing left is to box him in, and call the PD every time he breaks out of the box.

<u>Curfew</u>: 11:00pm. If you're late, and haven't called for permission, and you don't answer your phone, then you get reported as a runaway.

<u>Substance Abuse</u>: You will not bring any controlled or otherwise illegal substances into my house, onto my property, or use them around any member of my family. You will consent to random drug tests, and if you test positive then you get reported to the police. If you come home intoxicated in any way, we call the police.

That's the box. He can't stay out, he can't ignore his phone, and he can't use drugs, because all those roads lead to downtown podunk's juvie facility. If there's no other choice, that's the only one left while he's 17.

When he turns 18, then it gets fuzzy - too fuzzy for me to completely understand. Can't report him as a runaway, but can't make him move out as long as he's in school, either. I can enforce rules in my house (drugs, conduct, intoxication, etc..), but don't know if I can enforce rules on his conduct outside my house.

After 18, if he's still in school and acting out, then I can either put draconian rules in place to make him leave on his own, get him arrested and put into big-boy jail for his actions, or go to court and file for legal emancipation from my child (where he'll probably still end up in jail). Regardless, though, all three options lead to the front door, where he gets introduced him to the wide world of reality (without the backing or support of his family).

It just plain sucks. I need some time to digest all this and decide what to do, but there's only two choices: Come down now, while he's 17, or wait until he's 18, and then let him deal with the adult consequences of his actions.

I'll figure it out - I have a week or so to do it.

Mikey

 

[rejectedmom]

Mikey this seems like a good option. I would do it as soon as possible since there is a clock running on this. Wait too long and the option will dissapear. Do you really want your son to enter the system as an adult? Believe me it is a much rougher route. -RM

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rejectedmom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Do you really want your son to enter the system as an adult?...</div></div>

Nope, I don't. But I am going to wait another week or so before deciding. For some strange reason known only to him, he is voluntarily participating in an ADD/SA medical study that he's been told is primarily IOP treatment for substance abuse (to see if addressing ADD at the same time increases the effectiveness of the treatment).

It's part of a NIH national study, and is held at one of the best facilities in the area. The study is managed by a psychiatric doctor who's reputed to be nationally recognized for her work with adolescent substance abusers. McWeedy says he's only going for the 25 bucks a week they pay, but I have a hard time believeing that he'd drive 20 minutes each way once a week and spend two hours there for that pittance. But if he'll go, then I'll do everything I can to encourage it.

He starts next week, and the first two days are back-to-back physical and psychiatric testing like he's never had before. If there's anything else inside his head besides a grunting, defiant pothead with ADD, I want to know it before committing to a path that I cannot turn away from.

Once I build the box, there is no way to say "oops, my bad. We didn't know you were BiPolar (BP). Let's try something different...". With my son (and with all the arrogant, Type-A men in my family), once that gauntlet is thrown at him it cannot be taken back. Once I make the threat of boxing him in and calling the PD every time he breaks a rule, our relationship is changed forever.

So, I'll wait to see what the docs say before I make that final decision. For now, I think all the yelling, screaming, and threatening I've done over the last few days has him sufficiently subdued to get us through to next week. Maybe not, but I hope so.

But thanks for the reply. And if I didn't come out and say it, I also agree with you.

Mikey

 

[KFld]

Hopefully this evaluation and everything that goes along with it will give you some answers. Once you know what you are really dealing with, then maybe you can figure out the best way to deal with it.

 

[DammitJanet]

Mikey...I think getting this evaluation is a really good idea by the way. I think you were completely ingenious in finding a way to pull this one off too. I hope McWeedy cooperates fully with the folks there and the evaluation turns out for the best.

Actually...I hope he gets his in gear and decides he has had enough of this drama, decides he has such wonderful loving parents, wants to go to Harvard, cure cancer, and build you a nice retirement home! Oh we can dream cant we? LOL.

 

[Kathy813]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually...I hope he gets his in gear and decides he has had enough of this drama, decides he has such wonderful loving parents, wants to go to Harvard, cure cancer, and build you a nice retirement home! Oh we can dream cant we? LOL. </div></div>

Oh, Janet, we all have that dream, don't we?

Mikey,

I feel your pain and understand your dilema. But try to focus on one thing here ~ the choices that you are forced to make are really all based on one thing ~ your son's choices.

He has the power to make the right choice and become a functioning member of your family and society. Or he can continue down this terrible path and force you to take a stand for the sake of the rest of the family. If you do end up having to go there, don't let yourself be eaten up with guilt. If your son ends up in jail, he is the one who put himself there.

Now there may be reasons that he has turned to drugs and loser friends and it would be wonderful if he would agree to therapy and medications if they turn out to be indicated by the mental health assessment.

But the bottom line is that at his age you can't force him to be medication compliant or go to therapy and if he won't then you will have to be strong and follow through on the advice of the local authorities. You are fortunate that there are people you can turn to that understand having a difficult child and have experience dealing with them.

~Kathy

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now there may be reasons that he has turned to drugs and loser friends and it would be wonderful if he would agree to therapy and medications if they turn out to be indicated by the mental health assessment.</div></div>

It would be wonderful, but I'm betting he's just a plain ole pothead with ADD and a bad attitude. The assessment will simply confirm or deny that.

Also, the program IS substance abuse therapy at a leading treatment center here in the area. The main reason for all the up-front diagnostic work is that if there's any other underlying issues, then he can't participate in the study. At that point, we'll have something new to evaluate and plan on addressing.

If, on the other hand, he is what I think he is, then he'll be welcomed into the study with open arms. I've already spoken several times with the head of the program, and even explained that he says he's "only in it for the money". She replied that, barring any other disqualifying conditions, those are exactly the types of kids they're trying to get into the study. They know exactly what they're getting, and seem eager to give it a whirl.

So either way, it's a positive gain for us. We either find out there's something else - and start dealing with it - or we find that he's just the type of ADD/stoner challenge they're looking for. As long as he stays in their program, I'll cut him a little slack and give them a chance to work some magic.

That doesn't mean, however, that his recent actions will continue to be overlooked or excused. It only means that I'll hold off on the more draconian measures I'd intended to implement. Based on his progress (or lack thereof), he will gain or lose priveleges as time goes by. If he drops out entirely, then I guess the anvil will finally have to be dropped on his head.

But here's hoping - and praying - that something good comes from the next few weeks.



Mikey