Ripped off

[BusynMember]

Another thing I think we NEED to do is to stop making their age very young in our minds. At 18 kids serve our country. I work with an 18 year old girl who is leaving for the Navy. A young man of 21 left for the Marines in October, visited us and is thriving. Others in their 20s and early 30s have kids and are responsible parents. Others are finishing college. MANY have two jobs.

I think that thinking of our 18-23 year old adults as "so young"(and I am not criticizing here...just expressing thoughts) is as harmful as seeing them in our minds eye as eight year old sweet little boys and girls. It holds back our expectations and excuses their behavior, and makes us not remember that at least by 21 most young adults are thriving. It's not about age or brain growth in boys or most young adults would be like ours. They are not. These ages are old enough for most to make good choices and live good lives. Productive lives with promise.

There is no doubt that some 30 year olds and some 50 year olds are not adult like for various reasons. They can't work due to disability. They persist in drug use. And let's face it, some of us help them not move forward. When is it the person and no longer the young age?

We started on Daughter right away with the drugs do she quit by 19-20. Not saying tough love will work for all, especially those who have real cognitive disabilities but if a person is sble bodied with a normal IQ the person is able to start growing up responsibly by 18 and to be responsible by 21. Did we not do it?

Of course 18 is a young adult and so is 21, but most kids male and female, are showing strong signs of maturity by then plus a desire for independence. Most do not want to be dependent on parents. Most are not drug addicts.

Maybe it is just a silly pet peeve of mine that is invalid.
Certainly I could be wrong. I just think it's better to see things straight. I think we and they do better when we expect them to adult when they are adults. Hey some NEVER adult. Again, I bring up the 55 year old I know who lives off his sister in a motel and has never held a job for over a few months. Never married. Never had any responsibility . We do not want this man to be our adult son of the future.

Thanks for listening. Off soapbox now.

 

[Littleboylost]

Your son is VERY young still LBL. There is hope. It's hard to see. When ours was 19 we put him out of the house and basically told him he could never live with us again. In truth, we've let him come back once - short term - but only because he was homeless thru no fault of his own (a fire). But things have improved since then quite a lot. At 22, we are finally seeing things we didn't think we ever would at 18. My fingers remain firmly crossed - for you and me both.

 

[Enmeshedmom]

Another thing I think we NEED to do is to stop making their age very young in our minds. At 18 kids serve our country. I work with an 18 year old girl who is leaving for the Navy. A young man of 21 left for the Marines in October, visited us and is thriving. Others in their 20s and early 30s have kids and are responsible parents. Others are finishing college. MANY have two jobs.

I think that thinking of our 18-23 year old adults as "so young"(and I am not criticizing here...just expressing thoughts) is as harmful as seeing them in our minds eye as eight year old sweet little boys and girls. It holds back our expectations and excuses their behavior, and makes us not remember that at least by 21 most young adults are thriving. It's not about age or brain growth in boys or most young adults would be like ours. They are not. These ages are old enough for most to make good choices and live good lives. Productive lives with promise.

There is no doubt that some 30 year olds and some 50 year olds are not adult like for various reasons. They can't work due to disability. They persist in drug use. And let's face it, some of us help them not move forward. When is it the person and no longer the young age?

We started on Daughter right away with the drugs do she quit by 19-20. Not saying tough love will work for all, especially those who have real cognitive disabilities but if a person is sble bodied with a normal IQ the person is able to start growing up responsibly by 18 and to be responsible by 21. Did we not do it?

Of course 18 is a young adult and so is 21, but most kids male and female, are showing strong signs of maturity by then plus a desire for independence. Most do not want to be dependent on parents. Most are not drug addicts.

Maybe it is just a silly pet peeve of mine that is invalid.
Certainly I could be wrong. I just think it's better to see things straight. I think we and they do better when we expect them to adult when they are adults. Hey some NEVER adult. Again, I bring up the 55 year old I know who lives off his sister in a motel and has never held a job for over a few months. Never married. Never had any responsibility . We do not want this man to be our adult son of the future.

Thanks for listening. Off soapbox now.

I think that it depends on the person. My son sometimes seems like intellectually he is much older than his 19 years but socially he is maybe 16 or 17. He has always been this way and I remember reading something at one time or another that basically said that typically kids stay on the same curve. If they tended to have lots of tantrums as toddlers you can expect some “tantrums” when they are older also. So I do keep it in the back of my mind that while he is 19 and will be 20 in April that I can’t expect him to be right on track with other kids his age around us because he never has been. He still has to work and pay his own way, we do let him live here and feed him for now but we don’t give him money for anything. It just helps when I am feeling a little jealous of other parents who’s kids are doing exactly what they should be at exactly the right time.

 

[BusynMember]

Maybe I feel differently because of my autistic son. Autism is a developmental delay neurologically yet, although he sometimes talks younger and acts younger in his interests he is adulting. There are a lot of theories. Psychology is ever changing. My son tantrummed, didn't talk or potty until five and needed help in school. But he worked hard to be on his own. It is partly desire. It has to be. If not,y son would still be home, depending on us. He is intristocally delayed in his development.

Your son is adulting though. He does work. You don't give him money. I disagree strongly about tantrums. They can and should be controlled and are a choice usually to manipulate. A tantrum dierected at me or against my property is a foot out the door in my house. My autistic son stopped tantrumming long ago and when a child his tantrums were very bad.

But all of us are different

 

[Littleboylost]

I can honestly say my son never took any tantrums when he was young. We had a very loving and obedient child. He was one who enjoyed school and had many friends. We never moved from the time he was 4 to 17. And then we only moved to a different part of the same city. He had great stability and a lot of attention.

When he started using drugs he started to isolate himself. It went down hill very quickly from there.

He is 18 now and I am very torn between what to do once he completes rehab. Weather we should make him stick it out on his own or weather we should let him back home to get on his feet.

I have many friends with boomerang kids. Who have failed at school or completed school and are unable to find decent employment. They are at home and do pay room and board but are not making enough to get out on their own.

My son had plans of becoming an electrician. I hope he continues on this path once he gets his head on straight.

Sober living is not readily available in my area and rentals are insanely expensive. A room rental is $500 to $600 a month.

These are all things I can put on the back burner and deal with today for today.

 

[Enmeshedmom]

Maybe I feel differently because of my autistic son. Autism is a developmental delay neurologically yet, although he sometimes talks younger and acts younger in his interests he is adulting. There are a lot of theories. Psychology is ever changing. My son tantrummed, didn't talk or potty until five and needed help in school. But he worked hard to be on his own. It is partly desire. It has to be. If not,y son would still be home, depending on us. He is intristocally delayed in his development.

Your son is adulting though. He does work. You don't give him money. I disagree strongly about tantrums. They can and should be controlled and are a choice usually to manipulate. A tantrum dierected at me or against my property is a foot out the door in my house. My autistic son stopped tantrumming long ago and when a child his tantrums were very bad.

But all of us are different

My son had some doozies of tantrums when he was little and once when he was about 4 he swung a plastic sword at me. I broke it over my knee and walked him to the dumpster with me throw it away and that was the last time he ever swung anything at me. When I talk about the older “tantrums” I’m not speaking about rages or other violent outbursts, just more of an emotional melt down. I never did tolerate violence. What I call a tantrum maybe some people just call a really bad mood.

 

[Lil]

Another thing I think we NEED to do is to stop making their age very young in our minds.

I think that thinking of our 18-23 year old adults as "so young"(and I am not criticizing here...just expressing thoughts) is as harmful as seeing them in our minds eye as eight year old sweet little boys and girls.

Not at all what I mean. I'm not suggesting in any way that they are not adults and not responsible for their own actions.

When I say "very young" I mean they still have a lot of years ahead of them. They have time on their side. They aren't this guy: ↓

Hey some NEVER adult. Again, I bring up the 55 year old I know who lives off his sister in a motel and has never held a job for over a few months. Never married. Never had any responsibility . We do not want this man to be our adult son of the future.

What I mean is exactly what you mean. Act now - while they are young - and maybe you won't have that 55 year old man still trying to live off you. There is time for change.

I can honestly say my son never took any tantrums when he was young. We had a very loving and obedient child. He was one who enjoyed school and had many friends.

The age of 3 was pretty much one long tantrum. I swear, I literally had to stick him in a cold shower once like you see in movies when kids are fighting in a locker room - because after 1/2 hour of holding him to keep him from either running out the door or trying to break windows when I blocked the door I was exhausted. I met Jabber right before my son's 4th birthday. I always say that if he'd have met me a year earlier, he'd have run! He got kicked out of daycare. We saw psychologists and psychiatrists. He was terrible! It got better with age, but by late teens his tantrums had progressed to putting his fist thru the door...and they still happened. In fact, his temper was one of his biggest issues to remaining in our home. Stealing was the final straw, but temper was the only thing that ever got the cops called. We were never physically afraid for ourselves - but he just wouldn't leave us alone! Like a 2 year old that screams if you try to pick them up, but if you don't they grab you by the leg and won't let go...that kind of thing. Exhausting.

 

[Enmeshedmom]

I can honestly say my son never took any tantrums when he was young. We had a very loving and obedient child. He was one who enjoyed school and had many friends. We never moved from the time he was 4 to 17. And then we only moved to a different part of the same city. He had great stability and a lot of attention.

When he started using drugs he started to isolate himself. It went down hill very quickly from there.

He is 18 now and I am very torn between what to do once he completes rehab. Weather we should make him stick it out on his own or weather we should let him back home to get on his feet.

I have many friends with boomerang kids. Who have failed at school or completed school and are unable to find decent employment. They are at home and do pay room and board but are not making enough to get out on their own.

My son had plans of becoming an electrician. I hope he continues on this path once he gets his head on straight.

Sober living is not readily available in my area and rentals are insanely expensive. A room rental is $500 to $600 a month.

These are all things I can put on the back burner and deal with today for today.

it is soooo hard to wait and see what happens but we have no other choice. I take care of elderly people in their homes for a living and one lady I use to take care said to me when we were talking about my son graduating and what his plans were after “it’s a good thing that we don’t know what’s coming to us. Either it’s a beautiful surprise or maybe heart break. We find out when it’s time.”

 

[Littleboylost]

Not at all what I mean. I'm not suggesting in any way that they are not adults and not responsible for their own actions.

When I say "very young" I mean they still have a lot of years ahead of them. They have time on their side. They aren't this guy: ↓



What I mean is exactly what you mean. Act now - while they are young - and maybe you won't have that 55 year old man still trying to live off you. There is time for change.



The age of 3 was pretty much one long tantrum. I swear, I literally had to stick him in a cold shower once like you see in movies when kids are fighting in a locker room - because after 1/2 hour of holding him to keep him from either running out the door or trying to break windows when I blocked the door I was exhausted. I met Jabber right before my son's 4th birthday. I always say that if he'd have met me a year earlier, he'd have run! He got kicked out of daycare. We saw psychologists and psychiatrists. He was terrible! It got better with age, but by late teens his tantrums had progressed to putting his fist thru the door...and they still happened. In fact, his temper was one of his biggest issues to remaining in our home. Stealing was the final straw, but temper was the only thing that ever got the cops called. We were never physically afraid for ourselves - but he just wouldn't leave us alone! Like a 2 year old that screams if you try to pick them up, but if you don't they grab you by the leg and won't let go...that kind of thing. Exhausting.

My son acts out like that now Lil punches his own head rages and says he will kill him self. We haven’t had an episode like that for a while. But then again he has been at Cop Moms so who knows where his behaviour is at.

 

[RN0441]

LBL

I totally understand the feeling of being cheated out of enjoying being a parent. It's not what it's supposed to be like with our youngest either.

We both had children from our first marriages when we met. When we married I wanted to have one of our own so he would be related to all of us. Had I known that this is what we had in our future, obviously I may not have wanted one more. He was such a beautiful and loved child and I thought he was really going to outshine the older two. He had so much going for him. Until he didn't. My signature tells the rest.

I don't think there is one parent here who doesn't feel ripped off or cheated from what we thought it would be like.

My son is in a wonderful program now and I do have hope for a good outcome. However the day we landed in Florida he called and it was the addict talking again. He was negative, demanding and just not the person I wanted him to be. I was very strong and restated my boundaries with him. I have learned a lot.

I ended up with a ginormous cold sore the next day from the stress of that conversation. I then told my husband I was taking a break and next time he could do the talking. I was PISSED! He said no, that we both need to be supportive. He is young and maybe he was just having a bad day etc. He did call Christmas to wish us a Merry Christmas and he sounded like his old (new) self so I was relieved.

He then sent us a beautiful letter and touched on many things that I had not heard him say before. I feel that after 11 more months in the program and moving to a new town he will have the best possible chance of making it stick this time.

Don't try to figure out what happens after rehab LBL. There is a lot of time between now and then and you don't need to concern yourself with that right now. Save your energy!

 

[Lil]

He is 18 now and I am very torn between what to do once he completes rehab. Weather we should make him stick it out on his own or weather we should let him back home to get on his feet.

I have many friends with boomerang kids. Who have failed at school or completed school and are unable to find decent employment. They are at home and do pay room and board but are not making enough to get out on their own.

My son had plans of becoming an electrician. I hope he continues on this path once he gets his head on straight.

I'm a little conflicted by this. I believe my brother still has his 23 year old college graduate son living at home. (Yeah, I should know this - but last I heard he was.) He's working, saving up I believe. Has a really nice girlfriend and perhaps they are planning the future - I don't really know. But the point is, he's a good kid. No problem at all that I'm aware of. Wasn't in trouble. Had lots of friends. Went to college. Always worked. That kid, I'd let live at home too, especially if I had a house big enough he could kind of take over the basement or something.

But, I think it's very, very hard to overcome the parent/child dynamic when an adult kid lives at home. Sure - your house, your rules. Mine were pretty simple; keep the room clean, call if you aren't coming home. But when ours was last at home, at 21 years of age, I was still telling him to brush his teeth and getting mad at him if he called in sick to work! These are not things I should be thinking about with a grown son. NOT MY BUSINESS. But I could not stop "mothering" him.

By the same token, depending on where you live, the cost of living is SO high! Here you can get a very decent one bedroom apartment for $450. You can get a decent HOUSE for $600. A room share isn't normal around here because renting a whole apartment is pretty affordable. My son currently lives with his girlfriend in her parent's home. She told me their rent for that house is $1,900/ mo! Colorado isn't the highest cost of living either. I know that he will easily pay $600-$700/mo for an apartment - if he's lucky. With that kind of rental costs, it's not affordable for a minimum wage person. Granted, the minimum wage there is $10.20 per hour, but other states are lower. Federal minimum wage averages currently $1,257/mo GROSS if you work 40 hours. So yes, two people could manage - one not so much. If they don't have reliable friends, what will they do for roommates? They don't want to get deadbeats living with them and be stuck with unpaid bills.

IF our son ever came home again, it would have to be like last time. A set period of time, a job, and give us $ (rent) which we will hold until he is ready to move out.

But I truly hope that never happens. We're better apart. He's a better person. I'm a better person. I can love him in a whole new way.

I agree with RN. Cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

[Lil]

My son acts out like that now Lil punches his own head rages and says he will kill him self. We haven’t had an episode like that for a while. But then again he has been at Cop Moms so who knows where his behaviour is at.

Mine always behaved better for others than he did for us.

 

[RN0441]

Agree Lil but when hard drug use is in their veins, it's very easy for them to go back to old habits if they are home.

It's not that they WANT to go back to drugs but it's easy for them to fail.

I absolutely would help out our son if he was doing all of the right things and let him live at home temporarily to get on his feet.

However once they have used drugs the way our sons have, it's not comparing apples to apples any longer.

 

[Lil]

Agree Lil but when hard drug use is in their veins, it's very easy for them to go back to old habits if they are home.

It's not that they WANT to go back to drugs but it's easy for them to fail.

I absolutely would help out our son if he was doing all of the right things and let him live at home temporarily to get on his feet.

However once they have used drugs the way our sons have, it's not comparing apples to apples any longer.

Oh I'm sure of that! Lot's of hard drugs were never my son's problem, but the problems he had, including a real obsession for marijuana, would be there waiting for him if he ever came back for more than a visit. His loser friends, the town he just hated, though it was the only place we've ever lived, the lack of things to do in general - all waiting.

It would not be for the best.

I just meant I understand the boomerang kids - because the cost of living is so high - it can make even "typical" kids have a hard time launching. For the Difficult Child, I imagine it can be a vicious circle.

 

[BusynMember]

If my easy kids needed to come live with us I would say sure. They would follow rules. I would expect it to be temporary but no rush.

But it's still my house/my rules/no cigarettes/no pot/ call if you will be out all night.

That is often part of a glitch in life, not a habit and not the desire for our adults to depend on us forever. Good adult kids are grateful to us for helping them out and act like it. They don't scream at us for more.

What I wouldn't do.is house an adult who did drugs, broke the law, abused me or stole. For any reason.

 

[Littleboylost]

LBL

I totally understand the feeling of being cheated out of enjoying being a parent. It's not what it's supposed to be like with our youngest either.

We both had children from our first marriages when we met. When we married I wanted to have one of our own so he would be related to all of us. Had I known that this is what we had in our future, obviously I may not have wanted one more. He was such a beautiful and loved child and I thought he was really going to outshine the older two. He had so much going for him. Until he didn't. My signature tells the rest.

I don't think there is one parent here who doesn't feel ripped off or cheated from what we thought it would be like.

My son is in a wonderful program now and I do have hope for a good outcome. However the day we landed in Florida he called and it was the addict talking again. He was negative, demanding and just not the person I wanted him to be. I was very strong and restated my boundaries with him. I have learned a lot.

I ended up with a ginormous cold sore the next day from the stress of that conversation. I then told my husband I was taking a break and next time he could do the talking. I was PISSED! He said no, that we both need to be supportive. He is young and maybe he was just having a bad day etc. He did call Christmas to wish us a Merry Christmas and he sounded like his old (new) self so I was relieved.

He then sent us a beautiful letter and touched on many things that I had not heard him say before. I feel that after 11 more months in the program and moving to a new town he will have the best possible chance of making it stick this time.

Don't try to figure out what happens after rehab LBL. There is a lot of time between now and then and you don't need to concern yourself with that right now. Save your energy!

Thanks so much RN I am so very hopeful for your son. I am especially impressed with this he letter. It is one thing to speak but I know when I worried something down it makes it more concrete. That is such an amazing step for him.
Yes I am getting ahead of myself. One day at at time and know we have done everything possible.