Teacher here looking for help from the experts!!!

[givnmegryhr]

I am concerned for you and the other children. They should not be put out because of one student. If anyone is being removed it should be him. It sounds to me that his medications aren't right and he needs to be in a more restrictive setting such as an acute partial program. They can monitor him and his medications better there. The school is responsible with the psychiatrist for this. The school district would be responsible for transportation during the school year. I would bring it up at your next meeting. I know you are doing all that you can,but this is a matter of your safety as well as your students. You said it yourself, you are doing all that you can ,but it isn't working. That's not your fault. He needs more. Is there any way that these incidents can be recorded with a hidden camera? This way you have documented proof. Maybe if the parents actually see it they will realize how bad it is. As far as being consistent, I don't think school could be anymore consistent a setting. Like you say, middle school is going to be alot harder and they will call the police if he is being abusive. You might try telling the parents this also, at least they would around here. I feel for you. My son holds it together pretty well at school and takes it out as soon as he gets home. We have 3 other children and are getting services come into the home. The parents of your student need to realize that you are doing all that you can in the best interest of their son. Good luck.

 

[oceans]

There is also a book that I just started reading called Treating Explosive kids....The collaborative Problem-solving approach. It is by Ross Greene and Stuart Ablon. It is very good.

 

[tryingteacher]

I am so anxious about school tomorrow I can't sleep. My principal has a meeting with his mom sometime this week. I really hope she can get to the bottom of what his mom truly wants out of the remaining 11 weeks of school. I really can't wait till spring break.

 

[Marguerite]

That book sounds interesting, oceans.

Trying teacher, you mentioned you've given him easier work - what would happen if you gave him harder work in a subject he's good at? I know it sounds paradoxic but if you could get him concentrating hard enough it may help him switch off from distractions. I know we've used this in the past to quiet down difficult child 3 when he's about to go into meltdown due to stress.

You would need to encourage him with, "I think you're smart enough to try something that not everybody else could understand."

The timer - difficult child 3's teachers used to use that. He ended up getting obsessed over it and wanting to play with it, watching the numbers and hearing it tick was too distracting for him but if he couldn't see it he would go into meltdown when it went off and accuse his teacher of speeding it up when he wasn't looking.

It works for some kids and not others.

Isn't there ANY way you can get through to the mother, that you're really wanting to help this boy? Do you think she would use a Communication Book?

I hope you can somehow find a way to reach him, or at least start the ball rolling so someone else can build on what you've already found. It's tragic to have the wheel reinvented each new school year.

Marg

 

[Allan-Matlem]

Hi,
I hope all are more perceptive about the child's struggles and try to be responsive to the hand been dealt. There is no magic bullet , no quick fix , education is a long process.
Along with Ross Greene , check out the author Alfie Kohn. Although Alfie writes on general educational issues and intrinsic motivation , he is very compatible with the Explosive child approach. Also check the Bipolar child 3rd edition - educational issues section. The section applies to all kids with difficulties

http://www.alfiekohn.org/article/unconditional-teaching/

Allan

 

[tryingteacher]

I use communication notebooks with my other students. She asked me not to send home a communication notebook because people at his afterschool program invade their privacy and read it. He gets a conduct sheet with a daily score on it s n or u. I also call her daily and leave her a voice mail message concerning his day. I found a couple workshops on the explosive kids site that I am going to take. They are online and very reasonable. I think mom is a difficult child herself. The more I read about Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) the more I see he and his mom. I have tried harder work as well and he responds the same. What it boils down to is mom really wants him mainstreamed and even if I wanted to mainstream him I couldn't his behaviors are dangerous. We have a plan in place and from what I have heard from other teachers it is fairly common. The school is requiring him to go 10 consecutive days without exhibiting any behaviors that are dangerous to himself or others before we add a mainstream class to his day. We began this a couple months ago after a horrible outburst that lead to the school pressing charges against him and his removal from mainstream. I am going to press charges for something he did to me late last week. We are hoping that this will help him get more services. Do you think 10 days without dangerous behavior at school is asking to much?

 

[Janna]

Good morning,

I'm sorry I missed your post yesterday. I'm certainly no professional, so I don't know how much good advice I could give, however, I do have a 10 year old (Dylan) in an Emotional Support classroom with an IEP because of behaviors.

First, I think that you're not going to get very far no matter what you do without the parent's help. Please don't think I'm purposely trying to be negative, that is not my intention, but if the child is acting this way in school, going home and things are sugar coated and hunky dory, he's learning nothing. That's my .02. The mother doesn't even want to hear about the behaviors at all from the communication log. That's bad.

Dylan, at one time, was physically agressive, however between the right medications and my persistence with behavior modification, we squashed all that. He has had several minor (minor in comparison to what you're dealing with) incidents in the ES classroom where he kinda goes "flat", doesn't speak, doesn't work, etc. Then a couple of crying fits as well, usually during specials (gym, art, music), where he just doesn't want to be there, and starts throwing a little fit.

The teacher made him up a "prize box" at school. He's given a number every couple of hours for behavior, 1 is worst, 4 is best, and if he gets 3's and 4's for 3 days straight, he gets something out of this prize box. For your child, I'd just do half days at first, then spread it out longer, but if your child is an unstable Mood Disorder (which probably means Bipolar, that's what Dylan started with), it's going to be hard. It's worked really well for my son, but this is what we did for our own behavior mod here at home. I did the charts, the rewards, all of that. It doesn't work for alot of the kids here, but it did for mine, because I was consistent, firm and very mean lol.

I will also say that I consequence here at home for behaviors in school, which makes it harder for all my children, even my easy child. I do NOT agree to allow behaviors in school to slide, and this is a big factor with them. You don't have this support from the mother, this is going to be another problem. Your child can leave school at the end of the day, he probably goes home and mother doesn't care, and it's over for him, he can probably do whatever he wants to do.

in my opinion, you need to get the mom on board. Sounds like he also could use a good medication check. I think what you're doing is fabulous, and I also think you're crazy (no offense intended, but I don't let my own kids touch me, never mind someone else's) to keep yourself in harms way, but I don't think you're going to make progress with no parental help.

None of my kids would be where they are today if it wasn't for me.

(yeah that sounds like I have a big head on my shoulders lol, but it's true)

Janna

 

[Marguerite]

I'm afraid Janna is right (not about the big head though). Without the parent on board you are fairly limited. Plus - she wants him in mainstream - WHY? Just because it's mainstream doesn't make it the right place for him. Being bright doesn't automatically mean that OF COURSE he will excel there. Is she thinking that he needs mainstream in order to access the most challenging, stimulating curriculum? Does she think her genius child will stagnate in Special Education and his brains not get the stimulation he needs?

From our own experience, this is definitely NOT the case. difficult child 3 suffered seven years of mainstream; at least six more than he should have. He learned very little and had increasingly severe behaviour problems and finally health problems. Since having his own academic program plus access to his own way of learning he has rapidly made up all the ground he lost while being forced down a mainstream path. He is now back to studying a mainstream curriculum path but still by correspondence because he simply cannot cope with a mainstream classroom. And he is doing brilliantly, near the top of his class. The correspondence class is not Special Education, it's for all sorts of kids who simply can't attend mainstream schools for various reasons, not necessarily health. Some are behaviour problems but a lot are travelling, or acting in plays or movies. difficult child 3 is mixing it academically with 'normal' kids and working ahead of most of them, purely on his own efforts. A few years ago, he sounded a lot like your student. difficult child 3 is also very bright, but for years couldn't use those brains. It was very frustrating for him.

Mainstream is not necessarily the best place for even a very bright child.

I'm sad that the mother doesn't want a communication book because of 'loss of privacy' with the after school care people. Frankly, we would have welcomed all input from anybody who had to deal with our son. But if he's in after school care - it means she works longer than school hours. This means that there is another area of contact with him other than school or home. How is he there? If the mother objects to their reading his communication diary, then she dislikes their involvement and doesn't trust them, so it's likely that their experiences are closer to yours than hers. I hope they are better than the after school care in our area - the kids there are poorly and inappropriately disciplined, so that even decent, well-behaved kids are often misbehaving or rowdy, which isn't good for kids like this to be exposed to.

Your school, in pressing charges in order to try to get him the services and support he needs, is working directly against the mother's aim for him. She won't be happy with this. And the insistence on him having a number of meltdown-free days in order to have a chance at a mainstream class - how does HE feel about this? What does HE want?

Why does she want him in mainstream? Is it her perception of maybe better opportunities for him if he can cope in mainstream, or does she think it is going to be easier for her in other ways? If this is her main aim and she is in denial, then his problems are going to continue and probably get worse the further he goes through school, because she's always going to blame school and teachers for spoiling his chances at a normal life. Which is so wrong, because he would probably do a lot better with a specialised academic and behaviour program, as well as a medical evaluation to check his diagnosis (sounds a lot more than ADHD to me).

Whatever happens, don't burn yourself out over this. Once you've done the best you can don't beat yourself up because you couldn't do more. Sometimes you have to step back and let disaster happen before people will wake up to the degree of the problem.

A classic example - a kid who in class is quiet and doesn't contribute much but at least the teacher sees homework done well and assignments completed on time, so she doesn't worry, he slips below her radar. A year goes past, maybe another, before an English exam shows serious deficits in the child's ability to understand anything not completely obvious in written texts. Then careful questioning discloses that his parents, who were upset that he wasn't coping with his homework load, had been doing his homework and assignments for him to help him along. But this, long term, is not a help because by the time his problem has been observed and identified, valuable support opportunities have been lost and he is now expected to perform at a much higher level than he can manage without a LOT of remedial tuition.
If the parents had refused to help, or had talked to the teacher instead of blindly 'helping', their child would have been much better off, much sooner.

And it's sometimes the same for teachers - if you're doing far more than most teachers would and could, and it's sort of holding things together to the point where people think, "Hey, maybe this kid COULD cope after all," then as soon as the child is away from all that wonderful support it all falls apart.

I have to wonder - are things really that good at home? Or is she simply not home for long enough to see the extent of the problems? If he IS that good at home it sounds like the only place where he DOES hold it together.

I really don't know what more you can do, beyond what you're already doing. It's sad that you have to press charges to get the help he needs, instead of being able to work with his mother.

Marg

 

[oceans]

I agree that the mom needs to be on board in all of this. It sounds like this child needs a new evaluation, or medication change. I know all situations are different, but nothing helped my child until he was put on medications that actually worked for him. It took 6 yrs of psychiatrists and Tdocs, and finally getting him in the psychiatric hospital before he was finally put on some medications that actually helped him. I worked with the schools and hired advocates to get him supports in place. If this mother is ignoring the reality of the situation, this child is going to have a very difficult time. I find it amazing that you are so dedicated to your profession. You deserve huge amounts of praise. I do hope that this mother begins to get involved with this childs problems and needs. Good luck!

 

[dreamer]

did you get my PM? Have you had a chance to get the info "educating the educator" and educating the child with bipolar"?
Last I knew they had a lot of helpful info. Teachers I have given copies to have thanked me profusely.
DO be careful about talking medication with the parents. Even parents who are not in denial or are not uncooperative etc have difficulty discussing medications with anyone. (especially their childs teacher)
There is also a remote possibility, as you may be able to see by reading some of the posts here, that even when medicated some kids do not have the desired and expected and hoped for response to medications. Parents can get very frustrated, very defensive especially if they are worn out themself from having a child who is a difficult child.

 

[Hanging-On]

Trying Teacher, I couldn't post a reply on this thread for some reason. So I made a separate thread called "Trying Teacher". Please read it.

 

[Tezzie]

Trying,
As both a mom of a difficult child & a HS teacher, would agree with all the above. ALSO, injuries to staff need to be documented, at least in our school. Can you request an IEP/BIP update? Those of us that come to this site are fully aware of what our kids can do but I also know there are parents in denial about the functioning of their kids & this mom may be one of those. You definitely need to protect yourself & the other kids in the room.
A medication change, a 1:1 aide, or some other combination seems to be what is needed here.
Will your administration help/support you?

Good luck with this kid!

Tezzie

 

[tryingteacher]

We are meeting in about a week. He tore my shirt and pinched me so hard that it broke the skin and made me bleed a liitle. I had his mom pick him up early. It was the strangest thing I have ever experienced. He was out of control so we got him to the time out room in my classroom. I was in there with him and he was holding on to my shirt and I could get away he was screaming mommy mommy don't leave me mommy mommy. I said in a firm voice over and over I am not your mommy I am your teacher let me out of here and I will call your mommy. The other teacher in my room pulled his hands off my shirt and he (difficult child) told that teacher get out of here I want my mommy. He kept screaming and calling me mommy. He is African American and I am white so I look nothing like his mother. It was so strange. We have some pictures on ijuries to me but everything is documented. He is such a sick little boy. This whole rage occurred because he didn't want to get off the computer. He was given an extra 30 minutes and was asked seven times to get off after the timer went off. The other teacher in my room turned the monitor off and he flipped out. I sent my other kids out of the room until he had gone home. Most of my kids see the same p-doctor and as far as I am concerned she sucks because my students do not function where I think they should be functioning with the right medications. Only 11 weeks left in this school year. I hate to say it but I will not be returning to this teaching position next year. I am looking for an Learning Disability (LD)/Resource position. I am so tired of being beat up. When I start interviewing I am going to ask how these behaviors are addressed. I worked really hard to get my degree and with my mental health issues BiPolar (BP), ADHD, PTSD it took me 11 years to finish my degree and I didn't work this hard to be abused by a 10 year old. Granted he will be in middle school next year but you never know what type of kid will be moved to your class and with the way the county has handled him I am scared to stay here and end up in this situation again. I have nightmares once a week about him attacking me. I truly want to help him but goodness this trying teacher is getting tired. Sorry for the long long vent. I truly admire all the parents on this board I really do. If he were my child I would seek out residential treatment for him. I admire all of you. Thanks for all the support.

 

[dreamer]

the sad truth is many parents DO seek Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for their kids, and they DO seek better help via medications and docs, but......sometimes it simply does not work. There is no one magic pill, no magic dose, no one accomodation or modification that works.

What you are describing sounds kinda like it could be a full blown panic attack. If a person is in a full blown panic attack, they are not here in the here and now reality, they have undergone certain physical events that change how their body is functioning and they really are not there for you to talk to. They flip into a fight or flight mode. It sounds like he may have flipped into fight or flight and was scared and afraid and was desperately trying to find something real and physical he could hold on to maybe like a tie to the here and now and reality, but maybe it was not working.

I am not sure- here if you went to Learning Disability (LD) resource room, you would then get all the kids who have gone to that degree or so of anxiety and symptoms. Here our kids who are having a hard day in class go to resource room. Are you certain thats where you want to be?
I keep thinking of that child and keep worrying that maybe his mom IS trying to get help- but......there are LONG wait lists to get help, LONG wait lines to get evaluations, LOTS of red tape, financial struggles, etc.........and even once a child is evaluation'ed and in treatment, it is SO hit or miss........so trial and error, and so many of the medications can make kids worse instead of better. It can take years to find something that "works" and even then, there can still be breakthru problems.

As for us parents here? Well, a lot of us wound up in this situation without any choice on our part. This is just how things worked out, these are our kids. Not a "job" we can "quit" - Our life, our hopes and dreams are wrapped up somewhere in these children. We have HUGE investments in these children. Gosh I had 14 miscarraiges, tried for 16 years to have a child, and then I had my first difficult child.