whatamess, other than the first and second grade teachers who were intensely abusive to Wiz, our teachers didn't do what your example said. they gave Wiz rewards (candy or computer game time, often on the teacher's login so he could get past the netnanny) when he acted out or hurt someone. I do think that IC phrased it better than I could though, that it is more they system that doesn't bend. Part of our problem was getting the admin to see that the teachers were feeding the problems and stopping the teachers, even when the teachers were wildly out of line. The teacher that drove my son into psychosis by allowing hours per day of things we didn't, and on her computer login which had no filters because she was buddies wtih the computer tech supervisor for the district) AND she altered his IEP and forged my signature didn't get punshed at all. Not even when six other parents found the same things that year. She was teacher of the year instead. And it was NOT decided when all this came out.
so you can see why I felt otherwise, but of course I respect your side, whatamess. I KNOW a lot of parents have your experience. it is one reason that ours was so bizarre to me. well, our experiences with teachers. I just thought the tdocs were idiots and until we found the one we adored here in OK, and the psychiatrist in OH that was so awesome, I thought ALL mental health providers were absolute idiots. Mostly because they kept askign why I had a problem giving Wiz 3 candy bars at the grocery if it would make him behave, or letting him watch tv/play video games all day if he wasn't hurtng anyone. The idea that he was hurting himself was treated as idiotic and small mnded.
We also had a lot more success with Wiz once we started using Ross Greene's methods, esp combined with the Love and logic methods.
Malika, I used the physical activity as one example of something that was 'too much' for J. You say that he NEEDS the physical outlets for his energy and I believe you. It was simply the activity mentioned in the post that registered in my mind and one I could use as an example. It isn't always the obvious thing that is using up the resources. I have also mentioned frquent snacks, esp protein snacks, as one thing that often turns around behavior like you were faced with on the outing. MANY children need, physically NEED, to eat every 2 hours. They learn to cope at school because they have no choice unless snacks are part of the schedule. this means that when they are home it is even more important for them to get those snacks to build up resources to use during times when they cannot have them at school. My kids were considered 'spoiled' by many of their friends' parents and their teachers because I usually had a snack in the car or my purse (if I walked) or we stopped for one on the way home from school. I found that they ALL had a better evening if they had a snack right away after school. We could then do an errand, play at the playground (the place with the slides and structures), go to a friend's house, etc... Without that almost immediate snack, the NO! started in about five min after they were out of school. It was not somethng I realized right away, and figuring out that cheese sticks or peanut butter crackers was a lot better, results wise, than cookies or sweet snacks or chips, took longer still. but i did figure it out and it made a HUGE difference.
I don't know how long you were out with J, or when he ate before you left. But when the first few No!'s came, maybe stopping for a small snack could have helped. it might be that while he truly NEEDED the physical actvity on several levels, and I truly believe you when you say that he does, that his body also NEEDED the protein/calories of a snack. I don't know if it is normal in France to eat three meals and few snacks or to eat several small meals per day. I do know that biologically the human body does FAR better with several small, balanced, meals/snacks throughout the day. Many nutritionists suggest what amounts to 6 small meals (usually called 3 small meals and 3 medication snacks to appease the mind/culture that expects 3 meals that are quite substantial) per day and this goes a LONG way to keeping blood sugar levels more even and to helping with most aspects of health. The snacks need to nOT be junk food though. Though I doubt from what you have said that junk food is a big part of J's diet.
If you believe that the computer/tv/videos are what is creating the problem, using up his resources or causing him to be oppositional in order to get you to allow him to not get the physical activity he needs in order to go back and play with/watch them, why not cut out these things?
There were many times I cut out ALL tv/computer/video time from my kids. My husband hated it but learned to not go against me because I made him deal with ALL problems if I found he did allow it. I always talked to him about it before I cut them out, and I expected him to back me up. It would have been far easier to not have to deal with him on this, but making him deal wth ALL the school calls, problems at home, nightmares, etc... stopped the undermining fast.
WHY did I cut out electronics? It is my firm, cold, hard fast rule that if a child will lie, steal, cheat and/or hurt people to get something, then that thing is very bad for them and MUST be eliminated. Wiz got to that point without very strict limits and my husband was no capable of that type of strictness with his beloved (husband's beloved) electronics. He would let the kids be on one computer or watch tv so he could play on the adult's computer for hours when I was not home. There were times I took away part of husband's computers so that HE had no computers to use except at work because he stopped doing ANYTHING with us - the rule went for grownups as well as kids.
The first week with-o electronics was AWFUL. I had to provide other things to do and to be VERY firm because Wiz raged like a madman. Usually he stopped when I started to call 911 but often nothing else stopped him. I couldn't get Gma and Gpa to support me on this untl they saw firsthand how he would lie, cheat, steal, and beat the koi out of Jess to get what he wanted to watch or do on the tv/computer. So for several years I had to force my way through this myself. By the end of the first week Wiz was doing less raging and more bargaining- if I do this chore or read to Jess or rub your back, can I watch pokemon? "I would LOVE it if you would do that, but the tv is off and you are not going to watch anything. I know it is hard."
I never gave a return date. After the first explanation of WHY we were not having electronics, I did not ever go into the whys, regardless of the begging or whining. Kids are smart, they remember the why even at age 5 (about when I first started doing this with Wiz). I told him the electronics were off until further notice which would be weeks because he was abusing them and us by lying, cheating, stealing and hurting us to get what he wanted. That is not healthy and it is our jbo as parents to remove anything that causes that kind of reaction in him. I would not let him take a medicine that caused that, and I wouldn't let him have electronics because they were causing it. If, after a month or two, he was not lying, cheating, stealing or hurting anyone, then I would consider MAYBE allowing thirty minutes a week. I would not even THINK about it until x date. I usually used some holiday or a day something was going on that was on the calendar. It gave a date that I would consider ending the ban, but did not promise anything.
Wiz DID try to force that "think about" into "I get it back" on that date, and I was always careful to tell him that no, he did NOT get it back on that date. His behavior determined if he got even a SMIDGE back on that date. The first 10-14 days were the WORST with this. They were NOT fun at ALL. Horrible, really. But by the 3rd week he was grudgingly accepting and by the 4th week he was keeping himself busy wth other things. Usually he realized in the end of the 3rd week how much fun he was having doing other things, and how many other things were in his world when there was no screen to monopolize him. At age five to about age seven he would ask if his legos and blocks and stuffed animals were 'lonely' or felt neglected when all he did was watch tv. I often said yes.
When we did allow screens back, it was a tiny tiny bit at a time. one short show the kids agreed on. This was a bit easier because my kids ONLY watched videos, never what was on television being broadcast. Wiz thought that you were required to buy everything shown on tv and it was not worth dealing with so instead of cable tv we bought a couple of new videos every month and Gpa would send us a box of them every few weeks (drove me nuts with that, and we gave LOTS of them away because it was overwhelming). So we could show one short video and not have to much fussing because it was all they could get to.
Lots of people thought we were awful, stunting their development, asked "What will they talk to other kids about?" and all that was, to me, garbage. The screens stunted thier growth and interests and they never lacked for stuff to talk about that we saw. they tended to lack for the ability to not talk about things. I still see the way Wiz reacted to the electronics as an addiction and a problem. He reacted to Dungeons and Dragons and other role playing games, esp real life ones, the same way. Not so much the obsessive Aspie interest, thought hat is there, but more of an actual addiction. it went to that extreme and at times in his teens he lost that boundary between real life and fiction. At those points it was in his best interests to remove the screen or game or whatever until he could get a grip on reality and start to learn to moderate himself again. Recently he told me he wished I had pushed his grandparents to moderate his D&D and other role playing game involvement because he has over $6000 invested in cards and things and there really isn't a market for them at this time. He is into other stuff, and wishes he had saved that $ or used it for other things. I just gave him a hug and told him to think of it as a life lesson. he laughed, but it was with me so that is big progress.
Malika, you CAN remove the videos from your son. Simply tell him that you are going to read or play a game or go outside and not watch them for a few weeks. explain that the more he begs and demands them, the longer they will be gone. Tell him that you think they are part of his problems and you want to see if not having them at all will result in him being better able to control himself and his temper. You know it won't happen at first and may take a few weeks or months, but you are willing to be strong for him and to do what he needs rather than what he wants. The only catch is that you must then DO IT. This will likely include keeping the computer put away or locked away when you are not using it. You also should explain that YOU are going to be using the computer because you are the adult. When he is the adult and the parent, he can have adult privileges and decisions and choices. Of course you shouldn't watch a video while he is right there, but this removal of screens does NOT mean that you stop doing your work and/or watching a program you enjoy after he is in bed or when he is with a friend. Just like there are other things that adults do that kids don't, there is NO reason to eliminate use of the computer/screens for your adult enjoyment time simply because J s unable to handle it during his children's enjoyment time.
Malika, I am sorry if my earlier post sounded like I was saying that you forced J to do too many physical actvities, or too much exercise. I couldn't think of another example of something that might take resources, mostly because my brain was really frazzled from helping thank you to fix a project for school that he made rather a big mistake on but couldn't figure out a way to fix. I saw a way clearly and easily, but that would be MY way and it was HIS work. So while I helped, and eventually sewed part of it because he was unable to due to hand problems, it had to be HIS ideas. I find that to be such a difficult thing, to step out and NOT give my ideas while helping him see possibilities, but it is the best way for him to learn so I work at it. i truly believe that electronics, be they tv shows, games, computer time, etc...., truly CAN eat our children's ability to cope. Their brains get so used to that pattern of nfo being presented, and of the rapd changes and instant rewards, and then the real world and other people become difficult for them to manage because the real world works so much slower and requires so much more effort. I hope you can see what I meant, and that my experiences with removing 'sceens' (anything electronic with a screen) was not easy but WAS beneficial to my children. Wiz really was the one who needed it, but all the kids saw their horizons and interests expand when the screens were turned off.
Each of our kids is so different, and still has so much in common. You really are the great mom we tell you that you are, and part of that is because you know what J really needs and what he really needs to not have. Follow those instincts even if others tell you that you are making a big mistake.
I understood you to be saying that you had to discard complex descriptions of your son in your mind and just go with the flow of what was actually happening... but I may be on the wrong track.
