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Therapist for DC2
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 753303" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">No. I think your daughter would dig in more. She likes it that this therapist puts your husband down. She would like it if this therapist would put you down. Your daughter is empowered by it. This is a good thing to her. I think the answer is in what you say below, that your daughter has a power base through this therapist. Your daughter wants to piss you off. Why get pissed off or show concern in any way?</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">She is using what I refer to as powers of the weak. People in disempowered groups, such as racial minorities, slaves, women until quite recently, can't show their power directly. It is too dangerous for them. So they use subversive, hidden means, like sabotage, or passive aggressivity. But there are lots of other ways, too. (Do I recall correctly that your daughter has an eating disorder? That and cutting, I think, would go along with the twisting of aggressive , powerful feelings, into something where they appear to be something else.)</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">My son does this too. He acts overtly servile in order to manipulate me. And he lies.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I don't know why my son is this way. I did not dominate him. I don't dominate anybody. I am unassuming and I don't like overt conflict. This all mystifies me.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">]This therapist is perfect to accomplish your daughter's aims to have a power base.. One, the therapist triangulates. She seems to not respect her patients' parents, and not respect appropriate boundaries. The therapist seems to get a payoff from this, and so does your daughter.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I think your best shot is to disengage and to try not to react.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">But let me say this: I would hate this therapist. I would want to do anything I could to disempower her. I would want to call her out. I would want to fight my son directly to get him to choose somebody else. But I think all of this would be counterproductive.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">My son went through a long phase where he decided he was bipolar (he copied a friend of long ago) and he told various psychiatrists that this was so, and so he has a documented history as Bipolar. Believe me. He is NOT Bipolar and was never Bipolar. What can I do? I don't think you can do one thing. Except act indifferent. I am assuming you have already spoken to your daughter about some of what you feel. She does not care what you think. In fact, she wants to oppose you. Why empower her more?</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I think this is wise.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I think the key here is to no longer bite. </span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I would try very hard to not engage about your daughter's mental health. I would let her do exactly what she wants to do. I would not talk about it. I would try to be indifferent about the therapist. I would completely bow out of anything to do with medication. I would do my best to ignore the whole thing. In fact, I would try to ignore daughter. (I would be pissed at her, actually.)</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">OK. I'm lying. My son has chronic Hepatitis B which he acquired at birth. We didn't find out until he was 19. When he was 21 it got worse. I have been terrorized about this illness, which causes progressive (and potentially fatal) liver disease. </span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">For a time when my son lived with me I was able to prevail upon him to take antivirals which will keep the illness from progressing. When he left home at 23, I lost any control over his taking medication, or whether or not he went to the doctor or got blood tests or any other treatment. </span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I went off the deep end. Once I accompanied him to the Big City where the University Liver Clinic is. By train. It was a 14 hour journey. The upshot? Even with me as the monitor, he DID NOT GO. What did happen on the train? He created a scene in the dining car and almost got thrown off the train. Security was called. I heard the call for more security on the loudspeaker. I thought I needed to check. And there was my son. Surrounded by security. We did get to the Big City. The only thing that happened was I got intensely ill from stress, with abdominal spasms doubling in pain, and my son got on the streetcar, went in a circle, and never went to the clinic.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I learned my lesson. It took a few hard, hard experiences, and then I accepted, I had no control. </span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">Until our kids have the maturity and sense to understand their best interests, there is NOT one thing we can do to keep them safe, if they don't buy in. This is what my experience has taught me.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">I think if you back off your daughter will begin to act in her best interests. Eventually. And furthermore, I believe your daughter wants to be close to you, and wants and depends upon your counsel. I believe your best interests are to back off and to give her the space to recognize this.</p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">My sense is that if you back off your daughter will ditch this therapist on her own. But for this to happen, you have to remove the payoff for her, of the therapist's intrusive, wacky, disrespectful ways, especially about you and your husband. But you have to back off 100 percent. Get interested in your own life. Intensely interested. Be so involved in your own mental health and well-being that there is really no time at all to worry about her. She will pay attention. </span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left">Obviously, I don't know your daughter and can't really make any meaningful assessment of what she is doing and what she might do in the future. And I can't really have any meaningful sense of this therapist, and her motivations or capacity. I can only go by hunches and what you describe. My instincts would tell me to do anything I could to keep my son away from somebody like this. From what you write she sounds both destructive and irresponsible. And ditzy. But my own experience with my son has shown me that NOTHING happens until my son wants it to.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">I don't think speaking up to your daughter would necessarily be harmful. I just think it might work against your interests. As I see it you have several goals here. You want the best for her, that she get the best help she can get. You want her to grow up and to function in an age-appropriate and healthy way. And you would like the relationship with her to return to it's former intimacy and openness.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">I just think that exerting pressure on her to stay away from this therapist would not serve you in any one of these goals. I think she would dig in. While you might be successful in keeping her away from this woman, you would want her to be in therapy. I wonder if she would oppose you and resist seeing anybody, if you stood in the way of her autonomy in this area. I would wonder if she would take it as a message that you had reasons that you did not want her to be autonomous and separate from you. I worry that she may see this as intrusive and dominating. And I wonder if she would take it as your communicating that she is not capable of being self-determining. How are our children going to learn to make good choices unless we give them the space to learn. Which means space to err.</p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 753303, member: 18958"] [LEFT][COLOR=rgb(20, 20, 20)]No. I think your daughter would dig in more. She likes it that this therapist puts your husband down. She would like it if this therapist would put you down. Your daughter is empowered by it. This is a good thing to her. I think the answer is in what you say below, that your daughter has a power base through this therapist. Your daughter wants to piss you off. Why get pissed off or show concern in any way? She is using what I refer to as powers of the weak. People in disempowered groups, such as racial minorities, slaves, women until quite recently, can't show their power directly. It is too dangerous for them. So they use subversive, hidden means, like sabotage, or passive aggressivity. But there are lots of other ways, too. (Do I recall correctly that your daughter has an eating disorder? That and cutting, I think, would go along with the twisting of aggressive , powerful feelings, into something where they appear to be something else.) My son does this too. He acts overtly servile in order to manipulate me. And he lies. I don't know why my son is this way. I did not dominate him. I don't dominate anybody. I am unassuming and I don't like overt conflict. This all mystifies me. ]This therapist is perfect to accomplish your daughter's aims to have a power base.. One, the therapist triangulates. She seems to not respect her patients' parents, and not respect appropriate boundaries. The therapist seems to get a payoff from this, and so does your daughter. I think your best shot is to disengage and to try not to react. But let me say this: I would hate this therapist. I would want to do anything I could to disempower her. I would want to call her out. I would want to fight my son directly to get him to choose somebody else. But I think all of this would be counterproductive. My son went through a long phase where he decided he was bipolar (he copied a friend of long ago) and he told various psychiatrists that this was so, and so he has a documented history as Bipolar. Believe me. He is NOT Bipolar and was never Bipolar. What can I do? I don't think you can do one thing. Except act indifferent. I am assuming you have already spoken to your daughter about some of what you feel. She does not care what you think. In fact, she wants to oppose you. Why empower her more? I think this is wise. I think the key here is to no longer bite. I would try very hard to not engage about your daughter's mental health. I would let her do exactly what she wants to do. I would not talk about it. I would try to be indifferent about the therapist. I would completely bow out of anything to do with medication. I would do my best to ignore the whole thing. In fact, I would try to ignore daughter. (I would be pissed at her, actually.) OK. I'm lying. My son has chronic Hepatitis B which he acquired at birth. We didn't find out until he was 19. When he was 21 it got worse. I have been terrorized about this illness, which causes progressive (and potentially fatal) liver disease. For a time when my son lived with me I was able to prevail upon him to take antivirals which will keep the illness from progressing. When he left home at 23, I lost any control over his taking medication, or whether or not he went to the doctor or got blood tests or any other treatment. I went off the deep end. Once I accompanied him to the Big City where the University Liver Clinic is. By train. It was a 14 hour journey. The upshot? Even with me as the monitor, he DID NOT GO. What did happen on the train? He created a scene in the dining car and almost got thrown off the train. Security was called. I heard the call for more security on the loudspeaker. I thought I needed to check. And there was my son. Surrounded by security. We did get to the Big City. The only thing that happened was I got intensely ill from stress, with abdominal spasms doubling in pain, and my son got on the streetcar, went in a circle, and never went to the clinic. I learned my lesson. It took a few hard, hard experiences, and then I accepted, I had no control. Until our kids have the maturity and sense to understand their best interests, there is NOT one thing we can do to keep them safe, if they don't buy in. This is what my experience has taught me.[/COLOR] I think if you back off your daughter will begin to act in her best interests. Eventually. And furthermore, I believe your daughter wants to be close to you, and wants and depends upon your counsel. I believe your best interests are to back off and to give her the space to recognize this. [COLOR=rgb(20, 20, 20)] My sense is that if you back off your daughter will ditch this therapist on her own. But for this to happen, you have to remove the payoff for her, of the therapist's intrusive, wacky, disrespectful ways, especially about you and your husband. But you have to back off 100 percent. Get interested in your own life. Intensely interested. Be so involved in your own mental health and well-being that there is really no time at all to worry about her. She will pay attention. [/COLOR] Obviously, I don't know your daughter and can't really make any meaningful assessment of what she is doing and what she might do in the future. And I can't really have any meaningful sense of this therapist, and her motivations or capacity. I can only go by hunches and what you describe. My instincts would tell me to do anything I could to keep my son away from somebody like this. From what you write she sounds both destructive and irresponsible. And ditzy. But my own experience with my son has shown me that NOTHING happens until my son wants it to. I don't think speaking up to your daughter would necessarily be harmful. I just think it might work against your interests. As I see it you have several goals here. You want the best for her, that she get the best help she can get. You want her to grow up and to function in an age-appropriate and healthy way. And you would like the relationship with her to return to it's former intimacy and openness. I just think that exerting pressure on her to stay away from this therapist would not serve you in any one of these goals. I think she would dig in. While you might be successful in keeping her away from this woman, you would want her to be in therapy. I wonder if she would oppose you and resist seeing anybody, if you stood in the way of her autonomy in this area. I would wonder if she would take it as a message that you had reasons that you did not want her to be autonomous and separate from you. I worry that she may see this as intrusive and dominating. And I wonder if she would take it as your communicating that she is not capable of being self-determining. How are our children going to learn to make good choices unless we give them the space to learn. Which means space to err. [COLOR=rgb(20, 20, 20)] [/COLOR][/LEFT] [/QUOTE]
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