Things are tough

[Lil]

He is mostly being respectful and ok. But man oh man I dont really like him living here. Mostly it is the annoyances. And it is that I am now confronted by how he is doing and his depression and his mood. When he is drinking he hides in his room so it is not like I am dealing with that directly... but I worry about him. I am thinking about him. I am wondering how I can help him. It is hard to stay detached from the outcome and from his problems when I see them happening. I feel sad for him.

My son cannot come home because I know if he did, he would morph right back into the same type of behavior he was doing when he was in our home. He did not respect our home and he did not respect us. He could not control this when he was NOT sober but it was his choice to be "NOT sober". He did not appreciate what he had. We have not given him a chance to come back once he was out. Will we ever? I don't know the answer to that and I don't have to know that answer right now. That is okay.

Yes! We did let our son come back for a time and it was ... pretty okay? He got a job. He was paying us 1/2 his check to hold for a place of his own. He was still lazy and entitled, but better than he had been. Still, he had the same "friends" causing problems for him (him being part of the problem as well) and it's too easy to fall into the "Mother and Child" dynamic. Why ask him to do something, when it's faster to do it yourself? You see him doing something non-adult - failing to shower, skipping work, ignoring a bill - and it's too easy to "nag". What adult needs to be told to get a good night's sleep before work? None! But it happened when he was here.

With him actually homeless now - it's oddly easier for me.

I see this as an issue of consent. If I tolerate his use in my home or property I control, I am endorsing this behavior. I see it as a kind of consent.

At this point I don't have a moral stand on drinking or smoking pot. It is not a moral issue for me. I have no problem with people doing it who can do it moderately. The problem is my son can't but he has to figure that out.

I'm like TL. I have a problem with pot, because it's NOT legal here, and so it was a deal-breaker if we knew about it. My son doesn't seem to have a problem with alcohol, but it bothered me to have him drinking at home even over 21. It was the WAY he drank. Not just a beer every now and then with a meal or out at a BBQ or even splitting a pitcher with friends; his thing would be making a mixed drink every night or if he didn't do that, then shutting him up with a 6-pack, while playing on-line to drink alone over the course of a few hours. We'd be having a soda and watching TV and he'd have a beer - and be the only one drinking. That was just odd and off-putting - it just seems drinking alone is kind of pathetic. I'd have felt the same way if it was my brother instead of my son - or at least, kind of the same.

Jabber wanted a NO DRINKING rule...but I felt that was hypocritical, as we have a glass of wine now and then and if he drank like we do, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. It became an issue.

 

[Copabanana]

At this point I don't have a moral stand on drinking or smoking pot. It is not a moral issue for me. I have no problem with people doing it who can do it moderately. The problem is my son can't but he has to figure that out.

TL. It is not that I believe marijuana or drinking are immoral. That is not what I intended to say.

It is that I want to think that as his parent, I can represent the commitment to a moral life.

Jabber wanted a NO DRINKING rule...but I felt that was hypocritical, as we have a glass of wine now and then and if he drank like we do, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. It became an issue.

This is tough. The having to negotiate with Miguel about these things. We have different views too. M wants a clean drug test before my son comes home. (He wants to.) And I know that he was probably using heavily and the effects might be in his system for 3 weeks.) It seems to me a large hurdle, possibly a too large hurdle, one that my son would feel he could not surmount. He may feel he needs to come home.

You see, I am grappling with the possibility that my son NEEDS US rather than USES US only. I have up until now seen all of this as a question of WILL. As his opposing us. As his domination of us. As a power play. And I still do, mostly. Because my son is humble when he has no money and arrogant and imposing at the beginning of the month, when he does have money. But that does not mean my son is necessarily playing with a full deck.

Both things may be true: He needs to feel (appropriately) power in his life. But he needs us. He wants to be near us. And he may also need the marijuana. This is the BIG ISSUE with M. Because, like Jabber, he believes strongly that my son can and should obey a limit.

Can somebody please tell me why this is so hard, and cannot at least let up at Christmas?

 

[Copabanana]

I think M wants the drug test to have a baseline. So my son cannot just say anything he wants, represent anything he wants--without there being a basis in reality. Because that is how it has been. My son believes he can define reality by his words. And then if you question him he will self-righteously say, "are you calling me a liar?"

When everybody knows he is lying. Especially him. I think that is what M wants to stop.

 

[toughlovin]

I totally get what you are saying Copa. I think one of the challenges we all have is the transition from parenting a child or teen to parenting an adult. I have a daughter who is very together in many ways and this transition with her is totally natural. She is 21, an adult and acts like it in so many ways. I trust her judgement. She calls me for advice and I give it when she asks for it. Our relationship is not totally equal as friends in that she still thinks the worlds revolves around her to some extent and is less interested in what is going on with me. But I remember that stage myself so it doesn't bother me.

The transition is harder with my older son because of all the problems he has including the substance use. I think at this point he does needs us in a way that she doesn't (which is why he is home). At the same time I am trying to take the lessons I am learning from parenting my daughter and treat my son like an adult even if he doesn't always act like it. So I am trying to stay out of his business unless it directly affects me.

And although his drinking alone in his room bothers me and so does affect me, I think what affects me is my reaction rather than his direct actions... because he is keeping his drunkenness away from me. Some of the time when he is in his room he may not be drinking I really dont know.

Definitely no answers here.... and I think it is harder during the holidays because of all the "happy" family stuff around us. We have this image of how it should be and we are faced with the reality of what it is really.

The other morning at church I was feeling a bit sorry for myself that I couldn't have both my kids getting along happily together at Xmas as I watched other families with their kids home from college. During the service we light a candle for joys and concerns. Someone got up lit a candle and just said Aleppo. And it put it all into perspective. Things could be much much worse.

Hugs to you and everyone here at this time.

TL

 

[Copabanana]

And although his drinking alone in his room bothers me and so does affect me, I think what affects me is my reaction rather than his direct actions...

These words resonate TL. In a different way.

So much about this Is my own pain. My own fear. The way I have approached life, but I can change. If I feel my son suffers-I feel it viscerally. It is a reaction and not a response. >Let me explain how I distinguish between them. A reaction one can take no control over. Like an allergic reaction. When I am afraid, when I make this about me--what this all means to me, I react.

The mind mediates a response. My response is a chosen behavior to some extent. It comes from my own attitudes (which can be changed) and my responses can come from the way I feel about myself, and how I understand life. My responses can come from faith, rather than reactions from fear.

Thank you for reminding me of this, TL.

 

[Maisy]

I feel just like all of you do, especially at this time of year. It is like holidays are just another stressor that I am forced to deal with. My daughter came home yesterday and she is such a joy but it is almost like I cannot enjoy it because I am so worried about my son. I read the paper everyday to keep things in perspective but I still dwell on the fact of my son's issues. I read the detachment list frequently as well but struggle with the idea that I cannot fix my son's fears which are preventing him from moving forward with his life. Will this ever end?

 

[Copabanana]

I am so worried about my son.

Maisy. I re-read your signature again. There are a dozen of us, maybe two dozen, who post actively who share sons like yours.

I am worried too. But we are all doing it. We are taking one step at a time. So that we can let them make their lives as men, as they can, and survive and prosper too. We are doing it. Your son is a giant part of you, but he is not all of you. It is OK to give yourself Joy this Holiday Season, as you can. And me too.

Take care.

 

[Maisy]

Thanks Copa! I wish you and everyone else joy this season!

 

[toughlovin]

Copa your distinction between reaction and response is really good and really clear and it helped clarify things for me. Thank you. Reaction is our internal response and like you said is involuntary to some extent. Response is our external action and we can choose how to respond. I think where I get into trouble is responding immediately with whatever my reaction is.... sometimes that is not productive. If I can be aware of my reactions, process them and then respond it is much better... and sometimes know what my reactions are going to be and so think ahead of my possible responses.

For example we are having people over for Xmas eve. My son is supposed to join us and it is possible he will not want to, and will hole up alone in his room. This of course would upset me and make me angry. I really hope he doesn't do that. I could respond several ways... one would be to get angry, have it out with him embarrassing everyone including myself.... or to let it go, let him be miserable and do my best to have a good time in spite of what he does.

I also relate to what you say about feeling your sons pain. There is something really hard and painful when you know your child is really unhappy. I cant think of anything or anyone else that I can feel so sad for as one of my kids having a hard time. And yet it seems my son is always having a hard time and so to a large extent I have learned to live a happy life anyways. I still feel his pain but I have to put it away to survive myself. But I also cant think of anything that would make me happier than him living a productive happy life.

 

[Copabanana]

TL. I am right here with you.

 

[Copabanana]

And yet it seems my son is always having a hard time and so to a large extent I have learned to live a happy life anyways.

You know, my son has always struggled. He had a very hard start. I adopted him at 22 months.

I knew going in that it would be a struggle, but I believed we would make it. Immediately, my son responded to my love and I responded to his love. We worked. And that mean that "I worked" as a person. It was a beautiful story, until the day came when I could no longer make him happy with my love. And then, I felt guilty and ineffective and like I did not work so well as a person--if he did not do well.

There was this link between his functioning and how I felt about myself. When it seemed I did a good job as a mother, it was good. When he was unhappy, I blamed myself. None of this is logical but it is the truth.

I find myself distracted here. Fearful a little bit. Because sometimes when I write like this there are one or two people on the board that criticize me. For telling the truth. Perhaps they are better or stronger or healthier people than am I. They certainly must feel like they are better mothers.

I cant think of anything or anyone else that I can feel so sad for as one of my kids having a hard time.

But I do not believe I am the only mother who feels this way. That feels she is failing, if she cannot help her child feel functional and good.

let him be miserable and do my best to have a good time in spite of what he does.

This is very hard, in my experience. I think we can try, but there is a piece of us, that is tied to them. Call it what you want. An umbilical cord, or empathy or just mother love. This is a real thing and I believe it is with us eternally.

 

[pasajes4]

There was this link between his functioning and how I felt about myself. When it seemed I did a good job as a mother, it was good. When he was unhappy, I blamed myself. None of this is logical but it is the truth.

There is an expression in my mother's language that translates, " A mother is only as happy as her saddest child." This true of most of the mothers on this board at one time or another.

But I do not believe I am the only mother who feels this way. That feels she is failing, if she cannot help her child feel functional and good.

You are not the only one.

 

[toughlovin]

Copa I relate to all you are saying. You are definitely not alone. We adopted our children as infants.... and I think adoption adds an issue for us mothers and that is the fear that our children will feel abandoned again and so we do not want to do anything that makes them feel that way.

I was a stay at home mom until my son was 12 and then I went back to work part time. Until then my self worth was very tied to my mothering. My son was seemingly a pretty happy child so I dont think I tied my self worth to his happiness but I did tie it to his behavior. And he has been getting in trouble since he was 3 years old. I think one of the things that helped me was having my daughter who is a very easy child. She taught me that much about a person is innate, it is nature, it is how they are wired.

Going back to work helped too... so that my whole job in life was not my children.... I was able to feel good about myself for something else.

We started having serious issues with my son when he was about 13. There are some things I wish we had understood earlier and done differently. I have to be careful not to focus on those things because it sends me into a spiral of self blame which doesn't help me at all.

At some point early on I made a conscious decision not to let my son ruin my life. It is also true that early on I was crazy with worry and totally obsessed with what he was doing and what was going on with him. I did everything I could to help him.

There was a time when I could not imagine being happy unless he was doing ok. My being just ok had to be enough because being happy wasn't even on the table.

I think one of the things that really helped me was finding a great alanon parents group. There I learned the you didn't cause it, you cant control it and you can't cure it. I took that to heart and stopped blaming myself. And I also learned the concept of detachment with love. Not the kind of detachment where you cut off contact... it has nothing to do with contact really.... but emotionally detaching yourself from the outcome. It helped me separate my happiness from his....I learned to build things in my life that I like that make me happy.

So for me I really started to enjoy my life, started being much better than just ok even when he was not doing great.

However there are limits... when he was on the streets in winter it was awful. It was hard not to worry all the time. I was barely ok. Now that he is home I am doing things I enjoy and things that make me happy and I really am ok... but I still have that constant reminder of him and how he is doing and it stays in the back of my mind. So I think for now my being ok with some happy moments has to be enough.

I agree a piece of us is tied to them. When they are miserable I think we do feel it, I dont see a way around that.... but I do think it is possible not to have that totally take over our lives and be our focus. Although I admit it takes a lot of work to do that.

Thinking of you this holiday.

 

[mof]

Your not alone...I'm working on that detachment on myself. I just want to be his mom, but not so intertwined. I really miss my work...and I know I'm ready to go back, it's a happy place for me. Please send positive thoughts about this ...I'm putting some great hope in 2017.

I think I will be always tied to him, and now I see how he has changed me towards his brothers. I allow them to be more independent...they all have challenges..especially as teens.

Thanks toughlovin...u said it well.
Mof

 

[so ready to live]

Hi TL.

I could respond several ways... one would be to get angry, have it out with him embarrassing everyone including myself.... or to let it go, let him be miserable and do my best to have a good time in spite of what he does.

He may not be miserable in his room-may be more comfortable than socializing with anyone. I know when our son even visits with siblings, he withdraws some. It's as if he wants to be here but it is also painful in comparison to his life ie. no spouse, job, home.

I still feel his pain but I have to put it away to survive myself. But I also cant think of anything that would make me happier than him living a productive happy life.

I also put it away, a good term to use. Unfortunately, I bring it back out way too often. I get the reality of my lack of control, cure and cause but it's the living day after day with the sadness.

You know, my son has always struggled. He had a very hard start.

I knew going in that it would be a struggle, but I believed we would make it.

Oh Copa-our situations have been similar, our reactions also. When protective services brought 7 day old Difficult Child to our home, the minute she put him in my arms I loved with all my heart. I knew I could save him. I believed love overcomes, now I have to solace myself with where he might be if we hadn't tried. Two of our other kids have adopted or are fostering, I really pray they fare better. There are many here who struggle with their biological kid/adults, love didn't fix it either. It's hard for me to grasp all this as my natural instinct in everything is to ask why...and my why has not been answered in all these years.

What adult needs to be told to get a good night's sleep before work?

After such sad musings--I find humor in this...as I believe I told my son last visit "put your coat on, it's cold outside".
Prayers.

 

[recoveringenabler]

I think one of the things that really helped me was finding a great alanon parents group. There I learned the you didn't cause it, you cant control it and you can't cure it. I took that to heart and stopped blaming myself. And I also learned the concept of detachment with love. Not the kind of detachment where you cut off contact... it has nothing to do with contact really.... but emotionally detaching yourself from the outcome. It helped me separate my happiness from his....I learned to build things in my life that I like that make me happy.

TL, well said.

The 2 things I really resonate with in your comment are finding a support system where we can learn a different response as well as finding different ways of framing the situation, as you did with Al Anon and I did with my Codependency course......for me, I had to listen to others going through similar situations address these issues quite a bit before I could change my mind and learn a different response. And, I had to reframe my perception of detachment, which initially I couldn't imagine. But over time, like you, I began to understand the concept of "emotionally detaching myself from the outcome" which for me, means acceptance of what is.

I agree a piece of us is tied to them. When they are miserable I think we do feel it, I dont see a way around that.... but I do think it is possible not to have that totally take over our lives and be our focus. Although I admit it takes a lot of work to do that.

For me that's the bottom line.........it takes a lot of work, but we can learn to focus on our own lives and find peace of mind.....even if it is fleeting....for me, that has made an enormous difference.

 

[Maisy]

I can relate to all of the above responses. I think that it does not matter if a child is biological or adopted, the feelings are still the same. I guess the only difference would be that a parent of an adopted child does not always have that child's biological background but in the
Long haul, how we deal with our difficult children is still the same. I found that I struggle so deeply with turning off my gut reactions when my son acts up which is frequent. I want so badly for him to be calm and rational which is not in his make up right now. Everything is a drama with him and I find that my emotional state is always tied to whether the day is going smoothly or not. I feel that this prevents me from fulfilling my destiny as a whole person and my happiness. I have to hide my true feelings so I do not burden the other members of my family. Most of the time I just want to hide.

 

[Copabanana]

Most of the time I just want to hide.

Maisy, I feel that way, too. A lot.

 

[toughlovin]

I have been very open with people about issues with my son.... so i dont hide. I think it is easier to just be honest about what is going on.... i am sure people got sick of hearing about my problems but has time has gone on I have built my own life and so dont talk about it as much.

So we are having a couple of people over tonight.... and my son just told me he will not join us. He is going to hang out in his room but he cant handle being with people he doesn't know well....even though one of them is his uncle. I am disappointed, told him how I felt but I cant force it nor do I want to. At least he talked to me about it but I dont like it.

However I am not going to let it ruin my evening. I am just not.

 

[Copabanana]

Hi TL

Thinking of you today. My son has not called. I had hoped he would be home by today, but no.

So there you go: you challenged with your son home; me, wishing for what you have.

Take care and have fun tonight.

PS I cannot help but think that your son is punishing you, for not concentrating all of your energy on him. His funk. His needs. On some level this is a demand for attention. You are doing the right thing, I think, by ignoring him.

He has done a lot for himself in this year and a half I have spent on this forum. Lots of starts, re-starts, tries, and tries again. I know for you it is frustrating. But really, to an outsider, I can see there is motivation.

I wonder if we really help them by making them comfortable. I want my son to come back, but I wonder if his gains are made away from me.

Happy Holiday.