A living nightmear!

[Betty Boop Anna]

Im not even sure where to begin. Our 22 yr old daughter lives with us with her 3 yr old and new born (3 1/2 weeks old). She has history of talking to several guys via social media/ face time and has some attraction to the "bad boys" gang and drug dealers that don't have jobs, cars or a place of their own to call home, usually lives with a family member. The baby daddy is not in the picture and she has seen many guys even while pregnant. These guys all seem to be very manipulative and seems that she lets them control her. Anyway, after she had the baby, at about only 10 days old, she must have met a new guy. She told us she was going to a friends house and would be back in couple hours. She didn't come home for 4 days! No communication as to if she and the kids were OK or were they even where. I finally tried to call and text her to ask what was going on. She finally responded then that very night asked if we would watch the kids for a couple hours. Of coarse, I said yes, as I had not seen them and was worried sick. She said shed be home by midnight and didn't show up til after 1:30am; after I called to see where she was. She said she fell asleep! She came home and I asked her who the guy was and she told me a name I hadn't heard before, and I said how did you meet him and is that where you've been all week? She said yes, like no big deal. The kids were asleep and I let her know I was happy she was home and we would talk in the morning. She was gone in the morning, left about 3am with the sleeping babies. I was devastated all over again to wake up to them gone again. She wouldn't answer my calls or text, finally she responded and I asked her why she didn't let them just stay all night in stead of dragging them out in the middle of the night, she said, I wasn't thinking. I said you knew damn well when you came home you were leaving again, why didn't you say something then? She just said sorry, your right. We don't really know anything about this guy that she has been with, with our grandchildren for the past 2 weeks. She said that hes not ready to meet us. I asked her how do you meet a guy on line and next day go practically move in with him, with your 3 yr old and brand new baby!! She keeps telling me it fine, I'm not believing it!! All we know is this guy that she has told me is that he doesn't have a current job, but when he does work, its odd jobs out of state? He doesn't have a car, he lives with his mom, hes 38 yrs old. and he has a 2 year old that apparently the mama doesn't let him see often. I found out today he is apparently a gang member. She says they want to move out of state, I asked her how on earth can you meet someone that can totally alienate you from your family and friends. Not to mention the kids, I feel that they are not safe. The 3 yr old has been with us a majority of the time and we are very close to the 3 yr old, haven't had time to bond with the new baby yet, tho we love her too! She has let us keep the 3 yr old a few times and on the weekend. He has told me that he doesn't like mommy's new friend, who he calls "the guy". The last time he was here, he didn't want to leave with her, ran to his room and onto his bed crying "I don't want to go with mommy, I want to stay here!" I had to hold it together and let him know it'd be OK, and get him in the car. I asked her if this was as hard on her as on us, she just said "not really" ????? When she let me talk with him on the phone last night, I asked him how he was and if he was happy, he said "NO Grammy! I want to come home!!" and started to cry. My heart is so crushed. I'm truly afraid for their safety, but have no clue as to where they are, she will only tell me the city. I'm afraid to call CPS as she will just disappear and we will never see them again. I talked with a lawyer today to see if we have any rights and he said unless there is a history of drugs/ arrests / CPS reports, etc. that we really don't have anything to base our case on. I have been documenting for the past 2 years all the times when she goes a-wall or she does things that show that she is not putting her son first. The lawyer said to keep taking notes and unfortunately, we cant do anything till something bad happens.
There is SO much more to this story that I haven't mentioned, I just wanted to put this out there to see if anyone has any words of wisdom for us. I love my grand son and new baby so much that I just cant do anything that might push her away more. I'm trying to keep line of communication open, I just don't understand whats happening.

 

[Copabanana]

Welcome Betty,

This is a heartbreaking story. There is nothing to say that could justify your daughter's behavior either towards you or towards her own children. That she allows herself to be manipulated by questionable men who she barely knows does not take away from the fact that she is harming her children and putting herself into a risky and vulnerable situation.

I am glad you are here and I hope you keep posting. There are a number of grandmothers who post. Some are, or have been in the situation you find yourself.

That said, I feel confident in saying that your daughter will reappear when it suits here. This relationship will end, and end badly. The guy while 38, seems to have no personal stability or resources to handle the needs of a family of 3. How long do you think his mother will deal with this? Not long, I can assure you.

That said, I would be very cautious about accepting her and the kids back without your own conditions. It really seems like you were doing the parenting. Unless your daughter is willing to cede custody to you or some kind of legal rights, I would be very careful about letting her back. Because it will be continue to be the same kind of revolving door. You will have your heart broken over and over again. And the children will have their hearts broken, too. Your daughter seems indifferent or oblivious. You cannot be.

I am glad you have the attorney. He or she will guide you.

Welcome. Take care. I am sorry for your hurt.

 

[Crayola13]

If she disappears for several days while leaving the children in your care, you could have her declared an unfit mother.

 

[Copabanana]

I agree with Crayola's way of thinking: the children must be protected. And you, too.

I like her thinking better than my own, if you feel that there is a likely chance that your daughter will leave the kids, and give you the opportunity to file legally. The risk is that the same thing happens again. Because it will.

The only chance I see of your daughter getting it together is if she is forced to. By you or another responsible adult that gets the system to call her on her bad behavior.

 

[BusynMember]

If you feel the kids are in danger, call CPS. You cant control your daughter but you may be able to save your grands from her irresounsible behavior.

 

[Betty Boop Anna]

Yes we have practically been raising our grandson. He is the light of my world!! We haven't even been given the chance to bond with the new baby. She let me talk to him on the phone Monday night and when I asked how he was doing and if he having a good time, he answered " No Grammy, I want to come home" and started to cry. its really ripping my heart out! I called her yesterday to see how all is going. the baby has had a clogged tear duct and last Wed I told her she should have it checked out and she said its fine. We saw her on sat and it was swollen shut and draining a copper liquid, I told her again that it needed to be checked. Sunday we saw her when she came to dinner and to take the 3 yr old, and the eye was still swollen shut and our daughter in law was here and cleaned it for her, and saw it was actually bleeding. She told her to see the DR as soon as possible. Tuesday she finally took her to the Dr and they sent her to see a eye specialist. She wouldn't share with me what the specialist said, only that they gave her drops for her eye. I called yesterday and she wouldn't let me talk to the 3 ry old, and tonight I called and was aloud to talk with him. He told me right away that he wanted to come home. I just don't know what to say, I told him to ask his mommy, maybe they can come soon. What the heck!!!
I found out yesterday threw her Facebook, the guys Facebook page and its not good! He is a gang member and the stuff on his page is pretty encrypted with gang slang that I don't understand. I believe that he has some sort of control over her. She is totally non emotional with me and says they are fine.
I asked her if we could have the 3 ry old for a few days over the weekend and some time over the next couple weeks as I'm on vacation for 2 weeks. All she will say is "we'll see"
I don't even know where she is to tell CPS where she is. I have thought about getting a tracking device to stick under her car next time she shows up so that we can maybe get a location. what do you think?
Also, We have bailed her out financially several times over the past year, including getting her car out of repossession. I know we shouldn't have done that, but I couldn't see a single mom without a car! I now know that was the worst thing we could do. but its done now. We did it under the circumstances that we did her taxes and her return be deposited into our account to cover her fees. Along with when she was to get her disability, for time off with the baby, that we would handle it to be sure she paid her bills with it and also to be sure she paid us back. She agreed to the arrangement. Now, that she is with this guy, she has been very evasive about paying anything, in fact she canceled her EDD card and ordered a new one. It hasn't arrived yet and I have had all our mail diverted to a PO box. I'm sure this guy just wants to suck her dry of any money she has, she is planning on going back to work in couple weeks and he doesn't have a current job.
Any suggestions as to what to say to her or the 3 yr old. Is there anything I can say? What do I say to the CPS people,,,,I work in a school and see CPS come all the time. unless there is grave danger, the kids are never removed from the parent. I really don't know the dangers of the situation she is in, but I have a gut feeling its very bad. I know the minute she finds out CPS has been called on her, we will never see her or the babies again! The problem is that she continues to say everything is fine! I have asked her if we could meet this guy, but she says hes not ready,,,,, Really!?!?! I have a few questions for him! I'm sure he is well aware of what he is doing, and she is so blinded or maybe she is being threatened by him, I don't know.
I'm so beside myself, I just don't know what to do.

 

[Copabanana]

I have thought about getting a tracking device to stick under her car next time she shows up so that we can maybe get a location. what do you think?

I am wondering if this is legal. I would not want you in any trouble. It would hurt you and hurt the kids.

I do not see where you have good options, at least right now. Actually, if she was to stay with this guy, maybe she might WANT to give you the kids to care for. He will soon tire of the children, don't you think? Would you want full custody?

I would not take the kids without a legal document granting you custody. The attorney will know how to handle this.

Meanwhile? What can you do? Except try to keep going...distracting yourself as you can...praying and having hope.

As far as what to say to your oldest grandchild, I would say the truth: I wish you were here with us, too. Grandpa and I love you so much and miss you so much. Mommy says she will bring you to visit when she can. I love you so much. I cannot wait to see you.

I would stay upbeat. Young children's awareness of time is not the same as our own. I would try very hard to stay calm, reassuring, confident and hopeful.

When you think about it children that age have to deal with absence and loss all the time. Maybe you can google how to tell a young child about divorce and separation. How to explain it.

I was older when my parents divorced. Eight. My sister was 3 or 4. We survived. It was hard, but we made it.

As far as this idiot guy, (and this mother who seems not too much better), do you really see any hope for this relationship long-term? I mean, does it really have what it takes to survive? If he is using her, do you really think either one of you will hang on through thick and thin?

I don't. Meanwhile you have to figure out how to survive this. More than survive. Actually you are doing great, I think. The attorney was very smart. You are looking for support. You found us.

But I do get it. I would be frightened and heartbroken too. I am not minimizing it. But the thing is, you have to do this. You are really all those kid have right now. They need you to stay strong.

All this mother needed was another child. Do you think she will get pregnant again? I have heard of mothers who will let go of their older children when they have a new baby with a new man. Would you want to adopt them? Do you think this might be a possibility?

My point is this: I might think through what it is I want for myself, what I can handle...I would do this now, so that you are prepared and know your limits, and your capacity now--before you might be presented with a real situation.

Take care.

 

[Betty Boop Anna]

I'm sure its not legal to put a tracker on someones car without them knowing, I'm just desperate. Would she ever find out? I just need to know the location as to where she is to give info to CPS. The other idea we have had is to hire a private investigator, but that can be more costly than we can really afford.

You would think she would want to give the kids to us, for their safety, but I think its a power thing and she thinks we are trying to control her. She told her brother the other day that they are her "F"ing kids and she will raise them how she wants. The issue is that she didn't parent him here with us, I just don't see her doing much different there. I think the guy probably thinks that the kids are meal ticket for him, as she gets aid from the state for them. Defiantly, we would take custody of them, at least till she pulls her head out of her butt and gets her life together.

I have tried to stay upbeat, specially when talking to him, It just rips my heart out to hear him say he just wants to come home.

Thanks, I don't feel fine at all, All I do is cry, and imagine what my grandson must be going threw, What sadness he feels being in a place he is insecure, what is he being exposed to? Knowing he is sleeping on a floor when he has his own room and bed here. Who is reading to him? Does he get to play outside? Is he hungry? Thank you for your support!! I may be babbling for a while, I appreciate your ears.

I don't know, I just don't understand how she is attracted to guys with no job, no car, no place to call their own..... Really, he has nothing to offer her, Hes 38 years old, if he doesn't have it together by now... I just don't see the positive for her. He must be some sweet talker or he has threatened her. How do you meedt some dude on line and practically move in with him the same day??? What does he have on her? I feel it will end badly, she runs out of $$ and he no longer needs her.

I have no doubt that she will get pregnant again... she refused to get her tubes tide after this one and she refuses to use protection and has no other form of birth control at the moment. I don't see her giving up the children because they are her trophy's! She likes the attention they bring her. We would absolutely adopt them if the opportunity were to become a reality.

Thank you so much for the care and concern in your questions and helpful hints.

 

[Betty Boop Anna]

If she disappears for several days while leaving the children in your care, you could have her declared an unfit mother.

I wish she would leave them with us and just disappear!! I just don't think she will do that.

 

[Betty Boop Anna]

I agree with Crayola's way of thinking: the children must be protected. And you, too.

I like her thinking better than my own, if you feel that there is a likely chance that your daughter will leave the kids, and give you the opportunity to file legally. The risk is that the same thing happens again. Because it will.

The only chance I see of your daughter getting it together is if she is forced to. By you or another responsible adult that gets the system to call her on her bad behavior.

I agree, But Im so afraid that Ill never see the kids again.

 

[KTMom91]

Since you work in a school - are you considered a mandated reporter? I realize this is happening in your home and not your school, but still...I don't know exactly how the laws are written, or how different they are in different states. I'm a substitute teacher in California, and the district has made it very clear that we have a duty to report.

 

[Copabanana]

a mandated reporter?

I think it is a borderline case. And she does not know where they are!! I could argue that calling CPS would have no upside right now without a specific location.

I feel convinced that the mother will resurface.

Of course she wants R E S P E C T and will use the kids to get it, but it also seems she has few personal resources and wants others to share her burden too.

The best strategy you have at this point is passivity and the appearance of indifference. Kind of like an animal plays dead. Think about it: if you keep twisting and moaning, you empower her. If you retreat she will start looking for you. She will get nervous. Believe me. She needs you more than you need her. Let her start feeling she has lost YOU.

Meanwhile, agony does not help you. Agony does nothing to improve the present or the future. Agony is SO nowhere. Do anything to move out of this space.

I absolutely promise you she will be in touch. I absolutely promise you that you have not lost these kids.

This is not the kind of woman who will do it alone, can deal with responsibility or has a direction. Her latest love interest could care less. He will cut her loose. It is a matter of time.

To think about why she does what she does, is to give away your power. She does in the moment what feels good or fun or exciting, or offers short-term benefit, no questions asked. She may even be seeking power in relation to you.

That is why I think your best shot is to seem indifferent. Do not feed her power habit.
That is what I think.

Meanwhile, keep posting. I will be traveling after next week, but I will try as I able to look for your posts. Do not think I have forgotten about you. I have not.

Take care. You are a loving grandmother. I am so happy for those kids that they have you. I really, really get the pain. My mother went through this with my sister's kids.

Take heart.

 

[Betty Boop Anna]

thank you so thank you so much for your words of encouragement, I still need that right now. Well let me tell you about today. I have a few friends that take care of my grandson because they care about me I guess. One of them have reached out to her actually both of them have reached out to her. One of them today was able to get her to meet at a park and play and they actually got to talk a little bit and she asked her some real questions like what's happening and what about this guy makes her happy. First off she didn't let her know that she knew anything she was just trying to be nice and say hey I'm here for you you got a new baby let me take the kids so you can rest, so you can take a nap whatever you want to do, that's kind of how this all started. Well anyways they were able to have some quality time together and talk I so appreciate that. She found out a few things that I'm not sure that I was not aware of already but my daughter really wants to be loved which I get it, and I think because she hasn't really shown the love and care to her own child and they live here and we have really been doing the parenting that I think that does hurt her in a way that she feels resentful towards us, I get it. On one hand I just can't stand back and watch her neglect her kids when she's right here in font of us on the other hand I really have a hard time letting go and watching it happen. I think that I've mentioned it that everytime I talk to my grandson he cries and says he just wants to come home, and I cannot even tell you how much that makes my heart hurt. She told my friend today that anytime I contact her I'm never asking about how she is and I only want to know how the little boy is but that's not really true, I think that's just her perspective. Every morning I text her and I just say good morning sunshine and wait for a response I do want to know how they are and I do worry about all of them. And honestly my daughter and I have not really always had the greatest relationship she doesn't communicate with us, she doesn't want us to know her business. I try to keep my distance so I feel like I'm kind of between a rock and a hard spot. As far as the 3 year old goes, I guess I just love him just like my own because we have had him with us and cared for him most of his life. I read to him everyday we sing songs we play games and in my presence very rarely does she really interact with him as far as playing with him or having fun with him. It's always a very demanding what she wants him to do. I guess I just don't understand that. When my kids were little maybe I had less patience as well, I feel like I have more patience now with my grandkids than I ever did with my own kids. I think sometimes, it's because you realize that your own kids grow up so fast that you wish you would have enjoyed them more, therefore you just love your grandkids a little bit more knowing it's such a short time that you have them. Anyways I know she just wants to be free and be on her own and I'm having a very difficult time with that especially since the way it's happening it just seems so wrong to me. I really don't understand how you could meet somebody one day and practically move in with them. it's been a little over 2 weeks and I don't understand. Whet do I say her her? how do I let her know that I love her so she gets it? and then it hurts me to see her have such little self-esteem and such little self respect. That she would allow a practical stranger to just incompass her life and not only that, her children! I'm worried about the baby but more so I'm worried about the three-year-old because he is so impressionable and he has expressed to me that he doesn't like the guy, & wants to come home. as it worked out today I was able to spend some time with him because she went to Walmart and our friend I needed to drop him off because she had other obligations. So I took full advantage of the opportunity to play with him outside we watered plants we played Legos we played play dough, we played bubbles. I just wanted to see him happy. He was so exhausted and started to get fussy so I sat down with him and we saying a few songs and he fell right to sleep. And quite honestly I just held him and cried. I know I have to be strong, get my act together stop showing my emotions on my sleeve.

 

[Copabanana]

she hasn't really shown the love and care to her own child and they live here and we have really been doing the parenting that I think that does hurt her in a way that she feels resentful towards us, I get it.

Well. You had a full day and learned a whole lot. You have a good friend. Thank g-d for that.

You know I have to apologize. For some of my posting to you I imagined your daughter was your daughter-in law. I fear I was too harsh.

Your daughter in a sense reminds me of myself at her age. I was not a young mother. No. But I was immature and I was impressionable. I did not know what I wanted. I had little self-esteem. I was vulnerable and lacked confidence. I still am a follower to an extent. I did not know my value. And I was very, very intimidated by my mother. I could not be around her without feeling overshadowed, overwhelmed and small. I felt I was not good enough. I felt she could do most everything better than me. While I was a very pretty woman, I felt I was ugly in her shadow. You get the drill.

I am reminded of something my mother told me in her last year alive. She said: xxx you have so much confidence.

When she entered rehab for the first time she saw me around people outside of the family. Fifty years later she saw a different woman than the child I had been. She also told me something she had never before said. There had been the old story where a 3rd grade teacher, Mr. Wilson had told her...XXX is so smart she could be anything in the whole world, even president. My mother loved that story because it reflected well on her. But 50 years later in the last year of her life she told me the real story: He had said: If xxx had self-confidence she could be anything in the world when she grows up. She had guarded the truth for 50 years. Because she felt it was her fault. She did not say this. But I knew.

I am reminded of a mental health clinic/program that used to be in San Francisco. At the general hospital there. For infants and mothers who had trouble bonding. At-risk babies were identified who typically had rejecting young mothers. The therapists would work with the mothers to help them bond with their infants. Because infants who do not have mothers who bond with them, do not thrive.

Your daughter must be jealous of her 3 year old's attachment to you. It is a no-win situation if you look at yourself as competitors. Because by your attachment right now with your grandson, you are losing your daughter, and your daughter feels like she is losing you. Who really loses? The kids.

But it is a win-win situation if you find a way to see your power to help your daughter bond with her own children, and in so doing nourish your own bond with her, your mother-child bond.

You are so capable. So loving. So responsible.

At the same time you seem angry at her. I get it. Of course I do. But that is because we are in more or less the same age cohort, generation, life phase, and situation--frustrated because our kids are not stepping up. But I think there is more. For both of us.

Do I ever understand how hard this is to put into action. If I said to you the following, you would hate me: One way to begin to heal this is to stop appearing to her that you are a rival with her for the 3 year old's affection. You would dislike me even more if I said: if it feels to her that you are critical of her and the way she lives, this will push her away. I even dislike myself putting down these words. Because I believe you are the better parent times one thousand. And she is living badly. I hate that for her and I hate it for you even more.

But the thing is, these are the lives we are living. This is why we are here posting to each other, strangers, because we love these kids and cannot stand how they are living. We are trapped in our love for them. And we hate being trapped.

I am forever critical of my son. I am beside myself at what he says. What he does and does not do. But I love him. And I am afraid for him. And I would do anything in the world to help him. And he rejects my help unless it is on his terms. Just like your daughter.

But what feels like a trap is really an opportunity if looked at another way: look at what there is to gain. Is there a way you could become her coach? Her loving helper? Her guide? Can you find a way to be on her side? If you are on her side, you are on your grandchildren's side. And you are on your own side.

You are such a wonderful woman. I know you are. I know you can do this. I really, really do.

Can you and I find that place in our hearts of pure love for our children? And try to come from that place, instead of from our fear and our hurt?

It is very, very hard for me. I am the most loving and compassionate of women. I have a very, very hard time staying in that place, with my own child. Because I am afraid.

Whet do I say her her? how do I let her know that I love her so she gets it? and then it hurts me to see her have such little self-esteem and such little self respect.

So here you have phrased the dilemma. Our dilemma. Because I am in the same place with my own child.

In my own case I think I have a lot of guilt which has been passed through the generations to me. My mother in turn felt a lot of guilt about her relationship with me and my sister. I know my mother too felt guilt in relation to her own mother. And her own mother, (my grandmother) tremendous guilt and loss with respect to her mother.

I am wondering right now how we do this alone, without help. I am wondering if you would consider therapy?

As far as self-esteem and self-respect, I had zero. I think that is not uncommon in this society, for women. I earned my own self-respect and self-esteem but still I struggle with self-care. It is a battle. It is so much harder for your child, now, because she has dug herself deeper instead of digging herself out. But still, doable.

Is there something she would like to do, a secret goal or desire--like going to school, learning a trade, some kind of hobby? Is there something you could help her with? That she would be bowled over--that you were willing to do for her...help her with...with no strings attached, that does not involve the children?

I am getting your anger at her, I think. You cannot bear how she is doing this to herself. Like me, you cannot believe she is doing this TO YOU. Not just the kids. To you this must feel like it is snowballing out of control. You must on some level feel it is your fault, like my own mother felt with my sister.

My mother was enraged. Just enraged. But I believe under the rage and pain, there was guilt. Guilt she should not have accepted. It was not my mother's fault. But how my sister milked it.

I believe these things can be turned around. I know they can.

I think you have already started turning this around. I think you began this process today. You have asked yourself powerful questions. The answers do not exist yet because you have not put them into practice. But you will.

There are hugs. There is: I miss you. There is: I am sorry. There is: let's try again. There is: What can I do to help? There is: can we spend time together without the kids? What would you like to do? There is: would you like to go on a little trip? Or: I made a window box for you. Do you fish? Do you camp? Do you like the zoo? What would be fun for the two of you. You are so blessed, for one, to have loving friends. Maybe they will help.

You must be so worried about her. I am only seeing this now.

Today my son and I had our typical tense exchange. Hostile. And then he came into the house with his arms out and said, "Mom. Give me a hug."

Is everything all better? No. But I remembered that love does not have conditions. On some level you feel like an abandoned lover. And so does she. Each of you is longing for the other. And nobody can say it. Say it.

I hope you are not mad at me.

 

[Betty Boop Anna]

Thank you for your response, I really much appreciate your kindness. I am not mad by anything you said that I do agree I have to get ready to go to work so I will respond more later thank you again

 

[Betty Boop Anna]

Okay, so here we go, last night after my daughter came to pick up her son he was still asleep on the couch. Usually she has no problem just picking him up while he's sleeping and take him wherever it is and she wants to go. For some reason she said that he could just stay here because he was asleep and she could pick him up tomorrow. I was kind of surprised by that as that has not really happened before however I was pleased she would allow him to stay and not wake him up. While she was here I took advantage of a moment we had alone, I gave her a hug and I told her how much I loved her and how beautiful that she is, and how I felt that things were beginning to get better between us before she left. And I also told her how sad I was by sudden Interruption of her up and leaving for no apparent reason, there was no argument or disagreements no real reason just she just left, of course I really have a hard time with my emotions, I Esser going to cry but I just cried and I held her and I just tried to love her. she said that she loved me but no other explanation to any thing that is going on. I told her I would love to spend have her just you and me maybe Saturday we could go shopping and maybe have some lunch and let Dad watch the kids and she said sure that would be nice. Wow! so I was pleased to hear that, however after that she still left to go the guys apartment.
My other friend took my grandson today till my daughter could come and get him. This just like most of the other morning all week, I just texted her and I said good morning sunshine and wait for a response. She finally responded with good morning, I really didn't know much else to say, the interaction I have with my two friends contacting her with the child, I tried to keep quiet so she doesn't think that we're all talking behind her. My friend brought my grandson to school and we were able to visit and spend a little time together. She had made plans to keep him till later this evening because her daughter had volleyball and they were going to have dinner and she said she could bring him home or she could pick him up afterwards about 8 o'clock tonight. I contacted my daughter to see how she was I tried not to mention the kids too much because I'm trying to focus more on her to let her that I really love her and thay I care about her. I asked her what time she would be getting her son and if she would like to stop by and have dinner she said she didn't know what her plans were yet. Later my friend let me know my grandson wanted to go home but we both knew home ment here and not the guys place. I stayed strong and told her to check with Mommy if she want to pick him up or have him dropped off here with us. I just wanted to make sure she feel like I was not trying to take over. And then I called my daughter to ask her if we were still on for maybe breakfast or lunch and some shopping tomorrow and she said yes and that she would be home tonight to stay here with us. I'm a little puzzled to why she is being so nice right now I have a few ideas as to why, but really I hope that maybe we're making some progress in our relationship. I know it can't happen really that fast but I'm taking every little positive thing I can.
I'd like to back up just a little bit, can't remember what else I've mentioned about our situation. We have bailed her out financially several times this past year and she buried herself in which in fact buried is in a little bit as well. She leases a car and she chose not make her payment for about four months, car got repossessed, I felt that she kind of needed her car and talk to my husband and we decided to go ahead and get her car back, probably the worst thing we could have done. what's done is done more tho. the circumstances in getting her car back was she would have to give us her tax information so that we could have her taxes done and deposit in our account to pay for the fees involved in getting her car back. Also that her disability checks from being on maternity leave would be given to us so that we can help pay her bills and try to get her back on track. This all seems like a great idea and she agreed to it mainly because she wanted her car back. then of course she's meeting this new guy i think changed her mind about letting us help her. When her EDD card arrived, she activated it and handed over to her dad, we were to use that to pay her bills, and all of a sudden it was not valid so I asked her to call and find out what might have been the problem and she said that she needed to go to the bank to figure it out I did not really argue with her but I just told her that she could probably just make a phone call and she doesn't really need to go to the bank because the bank really isn't the issue, it's the EDD. I did also ask her if it was possible she may be cancelled the card . We couldn't use it to pay her bills. She denied that accusation, however she said she would go to the bank and tried to find out why it wouldn't work later that night I asked her if she made it to the bank and she said oh no I called and they are sending me a new card. So I said okay and just went with it. The very next day another card showed up in the which she does not know that we have received so I didn't mention it to her as they're just hasn't been an appropriate time to discuss with her without other people. Then I found out through another mutual friend that she did cancel the card the second card and she was expecting a third card sometime around the 11th, so knowing that, maybe this guy is trying get her give him money and that's the issue. anyways we diverted our mail to go to a PO box so we can intercept the card, it hasn't arrived yet and she doesn't know that we have received the second card, so in the meantime I can't help but to think maybe she's being so nice and cooperative because she's waiting for this card. Do you have any words of wisdom as to how I can begin a conversation during our time tomorrow? What kinds of things I should talk about, what I shouldn't talk about? maybe just not talk about much of anything and just enjoy our time together. I just don't want to waste this opportunity. and I also don't want to say anything to push her away.

 

[BusynMember]

If she is borderline, she wants something. They dont just change. If daughter has lied to you and gone back on promises before, why do you think she is being honest now? by the way borderlines tend to choose mean abusive men. Your daughter chose him. This is on her, not him. She doesnt have to listen to his dark desires but she does. Again this is on her, not him.

Guard your heart. Nothing you say should cause her to.do.this or that. She is manipulating you.for her gain and it is no real relationship.if you must watch every word. Has it happened before that you thought she was better only to have your heart shattered?

She knows you get guilty easily and exploits that. Borderlines think differently, lack empathy (important!) and dont suddenly see the light. She would need years of therapy and hard work. Does she admit she has problems? Does she get angry when you say she does?

Why am I saying these things? Because I hope you take care of yourself and dont let her shatter your kind heart. Learn that this is how she is. Read Walking on Eggshelps by Randi Krieger. Great book.

I wish you good luck, light and love.

God give me the Serenity to accept the things I can not change,
The Courage to change the things I can.
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Guard.your.heart. Love yourself.

 

[Betty Boop Anna]

thank you, it is true that when she is being nice, there is always something that she wants. she does easily get angry if anyone questions her about her decisions.
I feel I just need love her and except that she will never change until/ if she is ever ready. anything too keep her, the kids more importantly, in our lives. I feel we have to continue this game of keep her happy or lose her and the kids. Its so hard to talk to her, she doesn't learn from her mistakes and she doesn't think about the future.
my true concern is our grandson. He is becoming very aware that his foundation is shifting and just wants to be home.
I will look for the book you suggest.

 

[Copabanana]

Your daughter is of an age where manipulation, self-serving, and a sense of entitlement, are part and parcel of trying to grow up and make a separate life and identity. It is hard to separate out what is functional and what is personality. I would take with a grain of salt any diagnostic labels given here on this forum.

Now, I am going to get tough here, to make a point. When I came to this forum I had enrolled in the same online college classes I had pushed my son to enroll in, despite the fact I have an advanced degree. Why had I done this? To be sure he performed in his coursework. At that time he was a 26 year old man.

What I had done was borne of desperation and fear. But it was overtly controlling, manipulative and out of control. I am in reality none of those things. I had felt myself driven to it. By fear and love and hope.

I was wrong. I crossed boundaries I should not have crossed.

My son ended up sabotaging the whole thing by making a mockery of the class (and indirectly me).

bills and try to get her back on track.

we were to use that to pay her bills

You see, I did the same thing, with respect to the classes. And it backfired.

These are adult people. She is responsible to pay her bills. If she does not, the consequences should accrue to her. This is the only way we learn.

You see, I still do versions of the same thing. I use "help" to get control. I am wrong. There are parents here who have posted this: only give what you give freely with no expectations and no strings attached.

The reality as I see it is that you redeemed that car for you. You could not bear seeing her suffer or in want. But the thing is the only thing that will teach her is her suffering and want.

She gets to decide whether or not a car is worth it to her. If it is, she pays. If not, she does not. She lives with her life as she makes it.

This feels horrible and impossible for a loving mother. I know. Because I am in this spot, too.

I have the same issue, too. My son was homeless or a couch surfer. We bought a 2nd house for him because I cannot bear living with him much of the time. Luckily it has been a good investment and has given him for a while at least the opportunity to work and help, it has presented a lot of problems too.

These kids will be how they want to be. They will do what they want to do. They will win. The more we get into it with them and try to get them to "win" in our version, they will oppose us even more strongly, and to get out from under, make worse mistakes. We end up fueling the exact thing we so fear. Believe me. I know this from experience.

The only way to do this is to understand that we are doing the same thing with THEM. Oh yes. We tell ourselves it is for their good...blah, blah, blah...but it is still a power and control trip on our part.

she doesn't know that we have received the second card

So with this, I think you are manipulating her. I am sorry to be blunt but it sounds like there is a little bit of a war going on.

a conversation during our time tomorrow?

The first goal I might set if I was you--(and believe me I am on your side here, and I know exactly what it is you are trying to do--which I support. But it does not work. I have learned it does not work. Let me put this disclaimer in right now) I would come clean.

First I would think about all of this financial stuff. And I would ask myself, do I agree with the lady on the internet? Or not. Was it respectful to my daughter that I bailed her out financially and took control over her money in a kind of back-handed way....and now conceal that her card has arrived. Oh. I know SHE IS DOING IT TOO. And maybe she is doing it worse and she did it first. But the only control you have is in you and deciding how you will operate.

But really. What is your goal here? If there is this subterfuge and plotting between the two of you, how do you get things back on track? Personally, I think I would cop to it (or think about it, and talk with your husband.)

The real true conversation as I see it about the money is: I was wrong. I should not have inserted myself into your financial life. You had made decisions about the car, which were painful to me.

But I should not have put myself into the center of things. I know it is hard right now to pay me back. And I know it was wrong to take control and responsibilities to pay your bills.

You are a grown woman. I keep trying to treat you as a child, because you are my child and I love you with all my heart.

But you are an adult woman, and I was wrong. It was disrespectful of me. I want to clean it up. Because it was my error, I will gift you those car payments. There are no strings attached. And there is more: Your debit card arrived the other day. I held it back. That was wrong, too.

Now the thing is this: I know how horribly hard this all is. I am dealing with my own version of this h-ll. And it is worse for you in that there are these babies involved. I used to say with respect to my son: it is like my heart is walking around out there on the street g-d knows where. And it felt like my physical heart was out of my body. Bloody with the aorta just dragging on the sidewalk...I did not mean it metaphorically. That was who it felt to be me.

And you? You have two baby hearts out there with your girl.

But the thing is this: what can you really do? You are powerless except through your relationship with your daughter. And controlling her and taking control seem to not be working. Because the reality is she has found some guy that seems to have a better deal for her. At least for right now.

And even if she has to fall back on you...temporarily...unless she develops personal resources...this will be a revolving door.

She has to begin to work from integrity and strength and the only way you have any control or role right now in her learning to be this person is within the relationship with you. That has to be a model of integrity, truth and responsibility. In you. With her. (Of course this is only my point of view, which I have no right to believe is correct for anybody except for myself.)

But that is how I see it.

Another disclaimer: I am certain that there are people on this forum who believe I take too much responsibility, still, and allow my child, too much, still, to dominate my head. But the thing is this: every other parent here is only operating our of their own subjective head. Nobody knows how to do this in a way that is objectively true.

So I would try to begin by cleaning up my own act. (I just said that to myself, not you.) I am in a horrible state myself today with stuff that happened with my own son, and with me. I feel despondent and hopeless--about myself. Because this is how I get. I allow my son to hurt me when I want too much from him. And I feel it is him that has attacked me when it is the opposite. I wanted too much from him--something he could not or did not want to give and I set myself up. By wanting something from him, something important that he could or could not do, I opened myself up, and my heart got stabbed. And my hopes for myself crushed. I did it based upon my own want and need and love. And I stepped out on the plank...and crashed down into the surf...and cannot find the boat...which is me.

Which now, as I read this, in part, is what happened to you, I think. A little bit, at least.

Our lives, our feelings are our responsibilities. You gave her that money. For you. You loved your grandson. For you. She owes you not one thing. She is an adult woman. A mother. She can be with whatever man she wants for as long as she wants. She can pay her bills or not. She can take her children and do what she chooses.

But she is responsible for the consequences, too. Just as you are, for you. Your only power here is to learn about yourself, and to take responsibility here. Me, too. If our kids err, in a way that hurts us, we are the ones who need to change. The work that gets done on this forum is primarily inside us, the parents. Learning what they call "detachment." You will find an article on the PE forum. I think it is there.

All I can say more is this: it is all very, very hard and painful. That is all I can say.

We try to live for them...and it blows up in our faces...we cannot stand to be without them...and we end up feeling crushed and defeated. (I am singing my own song, here. It is the blues or that Portuguese singing that sounds like death itself. It is bothering me now I cannot remember the name of it. But think of agony, put to words and music. I am singing that now.)

I probably should have waited to respond until I felt stronger and more upbeat about myself. Oh well.

 

[Copabanana]

Betty. I changed this post some, over the last forty minutes. If you read it before now, I changed it, adding stuff and taking out other stuff. What I wrote could well be totally about me, and not you. But then again maybe there is some parallel. In any event, thank you for being here. I do not feel so alone when I read your posts.

I want to find women friends like you have. At this point in my life I think that friendship and mutual support and understanding is the cornerstone of a woman's life. I did not realize it sooner. I wish I had.