A living nightmear!

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Amália Rodrigues - Estranha forma de vida (1965)

This is me singing today (lie). It is Portuguese Fado. I am singing this and Blues. (I will try very hard to stop myself from going to get more music.) Amalia Rodrigues is singing. Life, how it is strange. Or, a strange form of life. Is more or less the translation. Portuguese has a concept in it based upon the word, Saudades, which is untranslatable. Yearning, comes closest. It feels like heartbreak. Because sometimes we yearn for what is impossible. Irretrievably lost or that which we never had, or never could have.

I think that sometimes in life we need this concept. Like an envelope in a dresser drawer. A place to go and to take out or put back our longing....to know it has a place and even a name. I will speak for myself here: when I try too hard to control life, it is because I am fighting to not have to return to that envelope of heartbreak. Every life has it. Maybe this is when I end up off the plank with my son.

Instead, I think I will find this music. To remind me that a part of life is heartbreak. And this is how it is and has always been.

There is love. There is friendship. There is song and there is heartbreak.

I am sorry I am sad on your thread. But you helped me to feel better.

Thank you.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I respectfully remind the other poster that the original poster said her daughter is probably borderline and that it exists. Sadly, it does. I feel advice seeking posters should not disregard anything anyone says here if it resonates.

When I first came here, fifteen years ago, I needed so much help. And certain posters resonated with me, others did not. The cool part that helped was that it is our choice. I never felt that overinvolvement and overtalking helped my adult kids (I never forget they are adults). But I appreciated sll responses. It made me feel not so alone.

With the gracious help here, i got advice, some helpful to my situation, some not.Every post was welcome and cherished. People cared. I was so battered and alone that it helped just to get responses. Maybe thats why I still try to respond.

At this time, precious Copa and me tend to type long responses. That doesnt make them better than anyone elses or one anothers. They are two opinions. Written from the heart.

In my case, my kids are all now employed and on their own so I share how I got them there. Two had had big problems. One still has a dufficult personality. He has narcicist traits and borderline is similar. When my son gets abusive I wont talk/text him until he shows respect so he shows it more often now. I dont hand him words he can scream at me over. With him less is more. So I do what works for me. And him.

I learned not to overtalk to him because my particular adult son will twist my words and use them against me. Im lust too old for drama. I am lucky that he did get his act together at least in the form of a very good job, a house, a car, one thing he never does is ask for money. It wo t happen. All my kids are financially independent, even my youngest who is just turning 21 and still in school and my 23 year old high functioning autistic son. He is independent too, a miracle. We were told it could not happen with him. It did.

Anyhow that is my story. I had very young kids when I first csme here. I learned by getting a variety of feedback and feeling grateful to all advice and to everyone who showed they cared. I also had much therapy for myself, ehich was invaluable in helping me cope and make hard decisions. I highly recommend therapy.

Copa is wise and loving, dealing with a difficult son and sharing her intelligence and personal experiences. I am not as talented a writer, but my words come from my own experiences and sadly I am well acquainted with how to handle people with Cluster B personality dusorders.They exist. How I wish they didnt! I read Walking on Eggshells many times. Another book that helped me was Codependent No More by Melody Beattie (probably spelled her name wrong.) Boundaries by Townstead and Cloud is awesome! It has a Christian slant, but it could be helpful to anyone. It is just good sense.

People like us with beloved difficult adult children sometimes have trouble with boundaries partly because they are not always rational and they dont always appreciate reason. And my son doesnt reason well.

Your daughter is suppised to pay you back. I personally would hold her to it. That doesnt mean my way is the only way. I come here as one who does not have enough money in the bank to support an adult child. Your situation is your own. You know it best. Nobody else does.

I humbly admit that what worked so well for my adult kids may not work for yours. But I gave you my best.

Take what works for you and leave the rest and just know we all really care for you, even though we may offer different points of view. And we care for and cheer for one another. I pray for all of us every night before I go to sleep.

Whatever you decide to do, we will all support your decision as we support one another.

Lastly Copa is a blessing to us. I dont think she thinks I think so, but I do.

My goal is to shorten my responses!!!! Yeesh I get wordy!!! For that I apoligize!!!
 
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Betty Boop Anna

New Member
first first off I'd like to thank you ladies for all of your encouraging words! I feel blessed to have found you and have somebody to bounce things off of. we are getting ready to leave pretty soon and I haven't decided how to handle things, maybe, just go with the flow and hope all goes well. I will get back to you later this afternoon. I just pray that I will have the strength to be honest and not say things that are hurtful towards her. I just want to have a normal day, maybe to just kind of forget everything that is happening and kind of bring it back to square one where it's just a mom and a daughter going to lunch. maybe not too much expectations for anything big, just to lay a little bit of a foundation for now and moving forward.
 

Betty Boop Anna

New Member
actually, I think I do kind of have a goal for today. First off, to accept the fact that she needs to be on her own and let her know I respect her decision whether I like it or not. But, for our grandson sake, I really feel like we need to come up with some sort of plan to help him feel secure, so that he knows when and where he is going. So he can have something to look forward to, so that when we talk on the phone I can have something positive to say like, oh I'll see you on Friday when Mommy comes over or something like that. I don't know, but I really feel like I would like to set up some sort of visitation plan with her so that it can be more plan and something for him too be able to look forward to. rather than never knowing what's going on. an't thoughts??
 

Betty Boop Anna

New Member
okay, so let me tell you how yesterday went. My daughter and I were able to go to lunch and do a little walking around in a historical part of town. During lunch I did a majority of the talking which typically is the case. I tried to choose my words very carefully and tried to not make her feel I was trying to condone her in anyway, I just wanted to tell her that I would like a fresh start because the last couple weeks have been really hard for everyone. I told her I understand that she wants to spread her wings and get out on her own, and that I will have to learn to deal with it. I told her that I can't do anything but change my own behaviors and my own thoughts and that I was just wanting to make things comfortable. I told her that if this guy is who you really seem to want to be with, and if that's the case, it is what it is and let's make the best of it. I told her my concern was for her and that I wanted her to be happy and I'd like to be happy for her but in this situation I just have a very hard time dealing with that. Also I told her I was concerned about the kids especially the three-year-old, who I explained to her that this is similar to a divorce situation, I told her that for his sake we needed to really come to some Solid Ground to make him feel stable and safe, that we really need to think about his best interest at this point. His best interest is to make him feel safe and comfortable whether he is there or here or wherever she decides to take him. She seemed receptive to the conversation, she processed a lot of it, she didn't really have a whole lot to say back, she did agree that it would be in his best interest for us to have some sort of schedule so he knows when he's coming and where he's going. I also expressed to her that if this is not really what she wants to do as far as staying with this guy, I didn't want her to feel like she's trapped in a situation because she made a hasty decision that she was always welcome to come back home. but, also, that she couldn't have both, she either needed to go or come, no middle ground.
another thing I talled to her about was her financial issues. I told her that I didn't feel like we have been doing her a service by bailing her out several times this past year. I felt that I needed to let her know that I had not intended to be controlling but I see how that could be perceived that way. As a mom I just want to help her and not see her struggle to see her be successful. I also understand that sometimes help isn't helpful at all . I shared with her that I have worked with people that sometimes I know they're just trying to be helpful but in the end it's not really helpful, so I get it, and then I would try to step back and try not to be so "helpful". In a way that becomes controlling because I'm trying to get her to do something I want her to do. she needs to learn to communicate with me when she feels I'm smothering her, not just get upset and resentful. i needed help recognizing when shes feeling that way. so I told her that if she would like to take over her own finances that would be fine, but she still had an obligation to pay us back. I do not want to continue to enable her and I want to give her the opportunity to grow up and take on the responsibility because she is an adult. even though I'm mom and I love her and I hate to see her struggle I have to let her go or she's never going to learn to fly. Also if she wanted us to continue to try to help her get on her feet that would be her choice. at this point so we will have to talk some more about that.
I know that's a lot and I'm not great at paraphrasing, just want to share. I welcome any suggestions or advice as I know there is much work ahead if me to change my own ways. thanks for your ears!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Wow. That's a lot. How do you feel? Did you feel?

What was her response? How did she seem? Open? Guarded? Warm?

Did you get a sense of what she wants, where she stands? I mean, what she really wants, what her motivations are for real? Or do you think she does not know and will go to the highest bidder at any one moment?

I think you did really, really well. She needs to be in this place...even if she is lost...especially if she is lost. Because how else will she ever begin to know who she is and where she stands?

She so much reminds me of me.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
in my opinion you blamed yourself too much and offered too much to a 36 year old. If our money or housing of these difficult adults really set them on their feet, nobody would be here. Instead, it makes thrm more dependent on us and she needs to seperate from you. She is not that cute little ten year old anymore. She is pushing middle age.

We are all different. No 36 year old of mine who still has not grown up would live in my house again. That doesnt mean YOU shouldnt do it. I just havent seen this sad situation help our struggling adult kids ever get independent. It usually ends badly with them continuing to live off of us and often not even helping around the house. They tend to live and behave like entitled teenagets rather than stable adults and most dont seek out help for their problems. This is what I have seen on here for fifteen years. They tend to do better when we pull the plug...at least that is how it seems from all the stories I have read. They often abuse us under our own roof. You probably know what I mean.

Although we may not see eye to eye (nor do we have to), i support any decision you make. We all must walk our own path and see where it leads. I hope yours is a good place.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
She is 22 years old with a 3 year old and a newborn.

While there is only the possibility that support will give her the stability and the security to change and grow, is thrusting her out into the cold what this mother wants, and will it benefit and protect these children, who their grandmother adores?

Boundaries do not necessarily entail complete abandonment of the adult child.

Not all young women are able to be independent emotionally of their mothers, right out of the gate. This is a major theme in psychiatric literature. When the mother-daughter bond has its issues (I am raising my hand here. I think the FOO threads are about this). Whatever issues there are spring forth from a maternal relationship of which Betty is a part, and is in part, responsible, as all of us are. I see Betty offering support, listening and integrity.

There are mothers who completely reject their adult daughters and make them bad and wrong...and disown them. Letting them and their children suffer and fall. Rather than try to begin where they are and to take responsibility for their part.

Rejecting this daughter and, and casting her out with her tiny children to me might be a self-righteous and self-serving act...but how would recovery happen for anybody? And it would likely destroy any chance the babies have.

Nothing horrible ever came from taking responsibility. By taking responsibility, I mean for my part. For communicating where I stand, and trying to live well. This is what this grandmother is doing. I support her.

What she did was open up a dialog with her child. She did it for everybody's sakes. It was strong, mature and wise. She will go from there. She did not forgive the debt and she did not endorse living badly or irresponsibly. She spoke from integrity and love.

Betty's daughter is very young. Not all of us are so perfect that our children launch effortlessly. Sometimes we have to go back to the drawing board.

Betty. I think you did well. How do you feel?
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Oops. I had the wtong person. I would definitely be more lenient with a 22 year old. The kids....I would hope there would be no more. But Id help out a 22 year old with kids but, as I always have, would try to get her independent and out of the house.

Yep. I messed up here. Thanks, Copa :confused:
 

Betty Boop Anna

New Member
Wow. That's a lot. How do you feel? Did you feel?

What was her response? How did she seem? Open? Guarded? Warm?

Did you get a sense of what she wants, where she stands? I mean, what she really wants, what her motivations are for real? Or do you think she does not know and will go to the highest bidder at any one moment?

I think you did really, really well. She needs to be in this place...even if she is lost...especially if she is lost. Because how else will she ever begin to know who she is and where she stands?

She so much reminds me of me.

I actually I felt like yesterday was very productive and I felt good. I do wish that she would communicate back a little bit more but her body language was open and she wasn't being short with me. It was nice to have a conversation even though most of it was one-sided she did agree with me that it would be a good idea for the three-year-old that we make some sort of schedule for him. She was very receptive to that and agreed that he could stay weekends with us and some of the time while I'm on spring break so that made me feel good. So I think she sees that there's a little bit of a problem with consistency for him and hopefully she'll start looking out for his best interest and what's best for him. As far as what she wants I think she was pretty honest with me when she responded that she doesn't really know what she wants yet. I did point blank asked her if she thought this was where she wanted to be and if she was going to move all of her stuff out pretty soon or she was going to think about this and slow down. She did consider it and she she said she's not really sure what she wants to do, so i feel this is a step forward in my book.
As far as her finances are concerned she didn't really answer me either way she didn't oppose, agree or disagree with any of the ideas I had. So I feel like maybe she's a little reserved as to what she wants to do. I think this guy might be taking her money and that might be her reservation because she knows she needs to pay her bills and that we will help make sure she pays them and if she takes over then that might mean he takes over her money and she won't be able to pay her bills I don't know that's just my assumption.
I expected her to go back over there to the guys last night, she had packed up all her stuff and put it in the car and was getting ready to take the baby and she came back just a couple minutes later un packed everything and then decided to stay here so I don't know if they had a disagreement on the phone or what was up with that. I didn't really ask a lot of questions. Only thing I did is ask if everything was okay and then just let it be.
Nothing really unusual happened last night I typically get the three-year-old ready for bed and read to him and put him to bed. I asked her permission before, so I can make sure that I'm not stepping over my boundaries and she said yes. This morning not much else changed either in the fact that the baby and my daughter slept and I took care of the three year old and when the baby woke up I gave the baby a bath of course asking her beforehand if it was okay, she was tired and I offered if it would be okay, Id watch the kids and she can sleep and she agreed to that. She is exhausted I can tell so just trying to be gentle. When she woke up, we talked, i asked her if she had any thing to say about our conversation yesterday and she didn't really have anything to say, she just she agrees with everything. I asked her what does that mean? I don't really understand, I said I don't want agree with me, because whatever I say doesn't make it right I want to know how you really feel. She didn't really having a great response, I didn't push the issue. However, I did tell her that as much as I want to try to step back and let her be the mom, that it makes it difficult for me when she sits back and lets me take care of her kids. Basically trying to tell her to get up and take care of her kids, step up and be the mom.
that's long winded, sorry, but I want you to seer the whole picture.
I do feel that between all the people talking to her this week, is helping her in a way, at least too slow down a bit, and maybe think a little more.
 

Betty Boop Anna

New Member
Oops. I had the wtong person. I would definitely be more lenient with a 22 year old. The kids....I would hope there would be no more. But Id help out a 22 year old with kids but, as I always have, would try to get her independent and out of the house.

Yep. I messed up here. Thanks, Copa :confused:
No worries I thought you might not have been responding to me because your talking about a 36 yr old.....She'd better have her act together before then
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
She was very receptive to that and agreed that he could stay weekends with us and some of the time while I'm on spring break so that made me feel good.
You have begun again with your daughter, as partners. This is wonderful, I think. I would feel good, too.
I did point blank asked her if she thought this was where she wanted to be and if she was going to move all of her stuff out pretty soon or she was going to think about this and slow down. She did consider it and she she said she's not really sure what she wants to do, so i feel this is a step forward in my book.
I agree here, too. And I was very gratified for you that she walked herself and her babies right straight back into the house for the night.

I think you showed respect to her, and self-respect. I am so proud for you and happy. This is more than a great start. You were humble yet strong. Open but with a spine. I am so, so pleased.

I will check back later.

You have a husband, I think. How is he doing through this?

The one thing I would say is this, and it is not a criticism. You have said your piece. She knows now where you stand. There is not much more to say. I would while with her, and on the phone, try to stay quiet. Ask her what she wants as you have already started. Not in a demanding way. But would you like xx? How would you like me to do it? Would it be helpful if I...? And let her start defining to herself, her own boundaries and her own voice and to begin to know what she wants.

And I would try to not put her on the spot about what she thinks or wants. The reality is: she does not know. This is what she is in the process of learning to know. Just like when she learned to tie her shoes, there are lots of different parts to learning...and it has to be practiced and practiced over and over again. If somebody does it for her...or asks her to say out loud how to do it, think about the pressure? Could you? This is the beginning.

The downside and the upside of having a powerful, knowledgeable, and capable mother is the same thing: when we grow up, she is not there. In the best case, the daughter emerges in the center of her life, with her mother holding her hand to reassure her. That is what you are doing now. Your daughter is finding a way to be a woman without you as the center of her life and of herself. Of course you will always be there, but she needs to find who she is, and act from that person. Not from your center. This is not easy. But I have confidence she will do it and so will you.

Trust me. I did not do this until my 60's. I am still working on it.

I was a spineless and indecisive woman. I only knew how to live with having huge goals, and I would drive myself towards them, like Stalin's 5 year plans, with millions dead in the process. Except I was the person who got exploited and mistreated (by myself) in the process of attaining the goals. It was my own dead body in the road that I stepped over, on the way to whatever it was I thought was important.

I had to learn (only recently) to listen to myself, to learn what it was I needed and wanted. To find out who I was absent mega-achievement. And I am more than 40 years older than your child!

My career in prisons helped me at work. Because I had to stay centered in my own power and values. While working, I learned to listen to a certain voice in myself, and ignore the fear and confusion. Only now am I starting to be able to do this in myself, in relation to my own life.

Your daughter can do this with your help.

But the learning for you is that she may feel diminished and overpowered by your strong and sure voice, so that she is unable to hear her own. Your voice, strong and sure, no longer helps her. Because she must find her own. She will.
 
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Betty Boop Anna

New Member
she's so unpredictable, just when I think things can't get worse, they do. just when I think she's starting to grow up a little, she's not. just when I think she's thinking of others before herself, I'm wrong If 2 babies don't wake her up, I'm not sure what will.
even though she didn't go back to the guys place last night, and she said she's staying here tonight. She was talking to another guy (at least I know of this guy, she calls him her best friend) she left to spend time with him, took the baby, left the 3 yr old here. came home and now leaving again. I asked her if she staying here or leaving again and she said I don't know. i asked if she going to the guys place or somewhere else. she not really answering. ok. i just walked away.
your right, she knows how I feel, I can't keep repeating myself. and as angry I am that she feels the need to be with a guy, any guy, more than taking care of her own children, she needs to figure this out herself.
when she got home tonight, I had just got the 3 yr old ready for bed, not sure if she taking him or leaving him here. I'm just waiting to see what happens.
as for my husband/ her dad, he washed his hands of her long ago. they don't really talk much and he's not surprised by any of her behavior.
I'm so saddened, I want to yell and scream at her, knock some since into her, but what good would it do?
honestly, i wish she just leave the 3 yr old here and go away !!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Betty. I read this late last night and could not respond and then I found myself dwelling on this when I woke up. Today is the week I am traveling cross country and have not a lot of time but I want to tell you this:

Every single thing you have said and done with respect to your daughter in the last couple of days, to me, has been sound, responsible and true. That is what I think.

That does not mean that there will be results on a day to day basis that feel good to you or right. Or that the babies will be protected....which I will get to later.

The situation is still the situation: you have a 22 year old daughter who seems to have no motivation or goal other than being with boyfriends.

Who does not communicate clearly or at all her intent because she seems to not have any intent beyond the moment.

The summary statement here is: This is what it is. You have not one ounce of control over her.

But where you do have control is over yourself. You have control over your house and you have control over your willingness to be available to help her with her kids, and to help her with any financial support and lodging you are providing for her.

Every single bit of this is on you. You determine how much or how little or when or to what extent you care for those kids. You determine whether she lives with you, and under what conditions.

At this point it is like you are a 24 hour drive-in babysitter. She calls the shots. Push. Pull. Up. Down. She knows that you will be there on her terms, whenever. And when she wants to, she will decide to drive down the block and deliberately withhold her business from you and patronize another place. In part to punish you, it seems. To show you who has the power in the situation. She has shown you through this latest episode that she will use the kids and do with the kids whatever and whenever she wants.

So you have decisions to make. Nobody can tell you what to do. But the thing is, she has shown her willingness to hurt her children, and be indifferent to their pain and their suffering, to suit herself. This is the reality. And she is willing to hurt you too. A lot.

As long as you permit yourself to be a 24 hour drive in, she will continue this. Because that is what she has right now. It seems she has free room and board, and a free babysitter. That what you are. She is not showing you the respect you deserve as a mother or as a grandmother. You allow this. She is not showing respect and care to her children. She will jerk those kids and take them with her to g-d knows what man, and how many.

To participate in this lifestyle, is to condone it. At this point, you are only complaining. That does not help.

One thing you can think about doing is setting conditions, about your availability and under what conditions. If she wants you to take primary responsibility for the kids, you need this reflected legally. But she gets to decide this. These are her kids. Or you can continue as you are. Or you can decide on what you need from her. You can decide to call the shots.

To me this whole thing, as it stands, is an accident waiting to happen. Because there is absolutely no guarantee she will not keep doing what she is doing indefinitely and over and over again. Why would she stop? She knows she has got a great deal. And that she has ultimate power through your love and sense of responsibility for those kids.

You can choose to keep this the same, or you can decide to change it. You have to choose which piper to pay.

I am not saying that she does not have the potential to change. But the situation as it is gives her no incentive to change or to grow up. It gives her no incentive to grow in responsibility and character, or as a mother.

You do not only love those children you love her, and to my way of thinking you have a responsibility I believe to make decisions that foster her growth as a mother and as a person.

I understand you feel frustrated by her attitude and behavior. But the only piece of this you control is the extent that your own choices and behavior feed into this. There is an article on this forum on detachment. Which helped some of us to deal with situations with our kids similar to your own.

I struggle continuously with this. I want things to be one way and I am over and over again crushed because my son does not treat me in the way that I would want. When I feel mistreated by him I get so devastated that I lose my will to live, to even have a life. In the latest iteration, I have a trip cross country to make on Saturday. I have lost my will and strength to make this trip...because I feel depleted and without hope and worth as a person--because of how my son treats me, and how he is. I blame myself. Who bears responsibility for this? I do.

If I were you what I would do is start a new thread, a series of them. With a series of focused questions.

You know already how this makes you feel. And you know the specific problems you face, about your love for these kids, your fears for them, your lack of control of how she jerks them around, and your lack of control over her.

What seems next, to me, is the question: are there ways as a grandmother that I can protect both these kids and myself? And how?

What kinds of boundaries and conditions would I need to set up, with my daughter, with respect to my availability to take care of her children? Should she be living with me and my husband? What rules do I need to set up with respect to that living arrangement and my availability? Do I need to set up some kind of legal guardianship or custody arrangement? To make this a condition? Is it worth it me to risk this, and the likelihood she will for a time, withdraw the kids? To what extent am I enabling her irresponsibility by not setting limits and defining the situation in accordance with my own needs to be respected and to be safe, and that the kids be safe, that is, not having the kids repeatedly jerked away?

It is not working this current arrangement. That is what brought you to the forum. It is not only about her and what she is doing or not doing. It is about you and what you are doing and not doing. The latter piece of this is the only place where you have control. There is no control over her. Complaining about her will not help. The ball is in your court. I wish it were different but it is not.
 
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Betty Boop Anna

New Member
Thank you for your straight forward respond. I know I need to stand up for myself and the kids. I feel no support from my husband other other children, as they all don't think she will change and therefore, why try.
As of now, she is still spending last 2 night's at the guys place, with the baby. She has been leaving the 3 yr old here at least. I let het know her mail came and asked her to activate her EDD card so she can pay couple things that are due, 2 past due. she had told me she wants to take care of her own finances, which did not surprise me. I reminded her that we had helped her get her car back with the agreement that we would take over to help het get on her feet. Now she doesn't want to keep her end of the bargen, so I told her that I expect her to pay a minimum monthly amount to us toward het debt. She one again get cold and not wanting to talk about it. So I let her know I'm here to help if she wants, and that I hope she doesn't plan on giving all her $ to this guy, as she has done in the past when she was with her "babies daddy". I tried to stay positive and let het know that I'm trusting she will pay her bills, encouraged her telling her I know she can do this. Who knows, maybe she will???
Down deep I know I shouldn't have given her the choice, but I'm trying to show her I'm trusting her to do the right thing. i am not expecting any miraculous change in her. but I'll take any baby steps.
My main concern is the kids and I will focus on their best interest. Keep journaling and hope nothing tragic happens in order to gain guardianship or even custody.
Thank you all for you encouraging words. I do intend on reading the books that you have suggested as well.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Walk carefully. It is always a fine line when you hae one difficult adult cbild snd other kids of any ages that try to live the right way. And a husband.

The troubled/possibly borderline daughter gets all the attention/sucks the air out of the room but udually does not change. The rest of the family resents her and is outraged at her bad behavior and all tje attenfion she gets for it. This can and often does cause resentment from the kind, well behaved family members. It can blow up on you and I would hate to see that.

Please temember your own self and gour other loved ones. Dot sacrifice the many for an attemp to fix one. It may not even work...especially if she is actually borderline.
 

Betty Boop Anna

New Member
Walk carefully. It is always a fine line when you hae one difficult adult cbild snd other kids of any ages that try to live the right way. And a husband.

The troubled/possibly borderline daughter gets all the attention/sucks the air out of the room but udually does not change. The rest of the family resents her and is outraged at her bad behavior and all tje attenfion she gets for it. This can and often does cause resentment from the kind, well behaved family members. It can blow up on you and I would hate to see that.

Please temember your own self and gour other loved ones. Dot sacrifice the many for an attemp to fix one. It may not even work...especially if she is actually borderline.

Thanks, I've been blinded by my own love
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Oh, I know. But you love the others too and I know from experience that neglecting their kindness can push them away. Then you are stuck alone with difficult adult and her drama and nobody else. We need to keep appreciating those who live well and love us right. Without my kinder adult kids and a nice adult childs grandchild (a girl who will never be taken out of my life or abused herself) and my loving husband, my life would be a lonely nightmare.

Meanwhile i did so much to fix difficult 39 year old and he is still difficult, rude, abusive at times and never calls on special days or to ask about me or sends a birthday card to anyone in the family. Not all difficult adults change and if they do one person can not take the place of all the others who can get lost in the fray.

Take care of yourself and your other loved ones too. Dont let one defiant, irresponsible adilt child push your own welfare or that of the others out of the way. All kids hope their mother loves and is interested in them. This daughter is not the only one. Also you will have other grands that will want your love.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
There is a reality to be faced. That reality is that to keep access to the babies, you submit yourself to mistreatment by her and to watch the babies be mistreated by her.

There is a way to hold this, to think about it, but you will have to be very, very strong. Somehow find a way to accept who she is and to find a way to tolerate it. And see your role as being there for the kids to the extent that you can.

The question is this: she is your daughter. Do you as her mother have obligations to her, to not continue to enable her to mistreat herself, her kids, and you? Another question: To what extent if at all is your marriage affected and your other kids affected by your continuing self-sacrifice, and by taking the hits? Because they are unwilling participants, and themselves may be affected too.

I mean, I have known people, Aunties, who have been de facto mothers, and have served as surrogate parents in exactly this kind of situation. These arrangements went on for decades and continued into adulthood. There were no formal rights. But in each case, they were not the biological mother of the parent, like you are, of your daughter.

I think what you are asking of yourself is doable but very, very difficult. It will require your being passive, and very, very defended. Because to some degree or another you will keep getting hurt over and over again. You will watch as these children are pulled and dragged. And you will not allow yourself voice.

I have been doing my own version of this with my son. I end up just like I think you feel, but worse. I have yet to find another, better answer. Because I love him. But the thing is, where is my love for myself? When I am hurt by him, I am devastated. I actually lose myself.

You seem stronger than I am.

Maybe the answer is my Fado music. That sometimes all there is, is heartbreak.
 
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