All good things come to an end....

[Copabanana]

My son left my area about 4 months ago to the area where we are from about 3 hours away. Now I think he is heading back this way.

After threatening suicide (to soften me up, I guess) he asked if he could come here just for the night, until he got settled either in a shelter or couch surfing somewhere in town. I said no, that I was sure he could work it out. I reminded him he had options, including even returning to Brazil if that was what he wanted to do. He did not like that and began swearing at me. I said goodbye and hung up.

My son's last situation was taking care of a dog while he lived in a studio apartment. He said that the one requirement was that he not leave the dog alone outside. He said that the landlady filmed the dog alone outside. The dog's owner insisted (by phone--she is in Brazil, apparently) that he leave. His friend who had helped him get the living situation came over and also told him he had to leave. My son said he called the police, "because it was not fair and he was doing nothing wrong."

My son does not want to understand that as long as he does not have a contract with his name on it, he has no occupancy rights. The same thing keeps happening over and over again. With the same result.

My son has called the police on us numerous times, for similarly capricious reasons. He has done so living with other people too.

I am sick at heart.

M says he thinks my son will come back to our area because he has nowhere else to go and nobody else to go to. M says my son know that I will help him get a living situation somewhere. I do not know if I will or will not.

All I know is my son does not seem to be learning. First, that it is necessary to compromise. Second, that he cannot make one hundred percent of the rules and impose what he wants in a situation where he has no power. Third, that he has to put some effort into things to get them to go right. Fourth, my son does not seem to value friendship and a hand. He seems to betray those who try to help him. He does not feel any sense of obligation or of gratitude for help, a hand.

My son has burnt his bridges with everybody who has tried to help him. He acts cold and blames others for everything. He feels betrayed. He does not accept that he has to do his part. He thinks he has tried and tried to no avail. I see him as trying not at all.

When he left my area 4 months ago he went to work with this long-time friend and live with the friend and his father. While the weather was OK they did landscape concrete.

He seemed to do well working hard. When the work ran out because of cold wet weather was when I began to hear about problems with the Dad which centered around marijuana.

My son does not seem to understand that when he lives with other people in their home, he has to subordinate his will to theirs, at least a little bit. Not biting the hand that feeds you. Simple, no?

The Dad did not like my son's use of marijuana, and did not like that my son provided marijuana to his own son.

My son did not see how the Dad had any right to interfere as long as he did not use the marijuana in their home. There was an explosion.

My son was kicked out.

I dread that he comes back here. I dread these phone calls just as much. I despair that he does not learn, that his life is like groundhog day. The same thing over and over, just worse. Without learning.

There are people who do not learn or change. Typically they believe like my son, that other people are the ones who are thinking and acting incorrectly, not they. These kinds of personalities are very resistant to change, because they do not see themselves as responsible.
The more that my son keeps going as he is, the more I fear he will not change.

There has always been the hope that he will mature, that he will learn. I have held out hope. Now, since an hour ago I have the twin fears of his harming himself or myself being harmed by his return here. I hate that I have to feel this way about my son.

My son has become hard and cold. For these past months, as his situation improved, he could show me some warmth and caring. I was grateful.

It was such a nice respite these past 4 months to only have to deal with phone calls which got progressively easier as I set limits. I know I can continue the same with him here, if he comes, but for right this second, I wish I did not have to face this.

I told M, "I wish I could disconnect the phone." He said I cannot. Of course I realize I cannot. I just want to.

COPA

 

[Nomad]

I hate to say it, but is there a chance your son has sociopathic tendencies?

Whatever the case may be, I think it's good that you are doing your best to stay detached and saying what you mean and mean what you say.

Our situation isn't as severe, because our daughter shows appreciation. But she has great trouble following rules and her social skills are abysmal. So jobs are non existent and I'm losing hope for any (even the most part time).

When she is hungry (no cause and effect reasoning...no ability, it seems anyway, to plan ahead) she goes to the food bank. When that is not available to her, we give her our leftovers and I sometimes go to the store and get the buy one get one free deals and give her my "free" item. She recognizes that we won't cater to her. She seems to have improved a teeny tiny bit. It doesn't happen nearly as much as in the past. And staying at our home is reserved for extreme emergencies and for like a day or two at most.

Bottom line, protect your heart and soul. Your health, relationships, happiness and pocketbook. This stuff is so sad and draining. But you are strong. Blessings.

 

[Copabanana]

I hate to say it, but is there a chance your son has sociopathic tendencies?

He is not exploitative. He will depend upon other people, but want to feel one hundred percent autonomous. He does not try to hurt other people, it is just the consequences of his unwillingness to let in others needs, and his egocentricity.

If this make sense: His intention is not to be hurtful. It is the consequences of his selfishness and self-centered attitude that hurts. It hurts me most of all because I suffer for both of us. For him and for me.

It is not so much I would want him to be appreciative. I would want him to "see" that life does not have to be so hard.

All he had to do to have a stable living and work situation, with good people, was to compromise with the Brazilian Dad about marijuana--the place he was at for 4 months.

My son has no understanding about loyalty or about protecting yourself by not biting the hand that feeds you. It frustrates me so much.

My son knows that he gave M, my Significant Other a black eye. He knows he called the police on us multiple times to get us arrested.

What is in his head? That he thinks he can say he is suicidal and I will pull out all of the stops to put my own welfare in jeopardy and that of my partner. And the cruelty of telling me he is suicidal but not where he is. He will not give me his cell phone number so I cannot have the police trace where he is. He calls me on a landline which does not have caller ID.

Tomorrow I will get caller ID so that I can have some recourse if this happens again. If he does this again I will call the police with his cellphone number. And I will refuse to speak with him again if he does not provide me the cellphone number. That alone is abusive. He sets up our relationship like a one way street. He has the control. I do not. I can choose whether I participate even to the extent that I pick up the phone. He can always call M, my significant other, on his cell phone. It is not that he will be cut off, if I choose not to pick up.

I am just so, so sad. So, so scared. While I know it does not matter one whit that I do not want to live out the rest of my life this way, I will say it anyway. I do not want to live out the whole rest of my life this way.

I never imagined that his growing up would be like this.

I am thinking that I will help him get an apartment here in my city if he does come back. I will not pay, but I will help him find an apartment so he can be stable. And we can go to social security again to request he get a payee. Because I do not see him making good enough decisions about choosing where to live, and reliably paying rent. Any help from me will have to come with the condition that he request a payee, and get involved with Mental Health.

COPA

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Bottom line, protect your heart and soul. Your health, relationships, happiness and pocketbook. This stuff is so sad and draining. But you are strong. Blessings.

How awful for you to have been put in this situation again, Copa.

Cedar

 

[pasajes4]

I am so sorry that this is disturbing your much deserved peace.

 

[New Leaf]

I am sorry Copa for all of this. It is difficult to live our lives this way, trying to be lovingly detached, trying to stay strong.
We chug on, building ourselves up, living our lives, dealing with our own issues, health, bills, relationships.

What a completely different reality we live in, from that of people with children who have launched, and go on to live productive lives.

It is hard when our d cs come back into the picture, for me harder than when they are not. When they are out there, there is always that thought in the back of my mind, as to how they are doing, the hope that they have found a way.

Then, boom, back again.

With my easy children, the phone rings, and I am happy to hear from them. Happy, when they come to visit.

When my d cs reappear, that feeling of "what now?" Glad to know they are surviving, but then the feeling of dread, they are still using, the energy it takes to keep my guard up, the extremes necessary to protect ones heart, and home.
The timing of it all, seems so impeccable, right when I am feeling a bit stronger, able to deflect the worries and heartache. Boom. Contact.

For although we lovingly detach, there are still the years of loving and care, the good memories that keep them in our hearts. We love them.

It is a cruel game. A test. "Lets see how you will handle this one." The universe says.

Tomorrow I will get caller ID so that I can have some recourse if this happens again. If he does this again I will call the police with his cellphone number. And I will refuse to speak with him again if he does not provide me the cellphone number. That alone is abusive. He sets up our relationship like a one way street. He has the control.

I think this is a good idea, Copa. It is not right to create this kind of control over another. I am glad you see this for what it is. You have worked hard all of these months at setting boundaries.

I am just so, so sad. So, so scared. While I know it does not matter one whit that I do not want to live out the rest of my life this way, I will say it anyway. I do not want to live out the whole rest of my life this way.

Amen, I feel the same way. Sad, and scared. You are right, it does not matter, we have no control over this, what our d cs do how they view us in their lives. We only have control over ourselves, our response and reactions.
I do not want to live the rest of my life this way, either.
I wish my two, would just see the light, get it together.

I never imagined that his growing up would be like this.

It is hard. I never thought my two would come to this, much less bring grandchildren into it. I am sad for all of us who go through this. Not just the parents, the d cs, too. They are lost in their thinking.
I do not think they can even begin to grasp, how difficult this is for us.

Any help from me will have to come with the condition that he request a payee, and get involved with Mental Health.

This is a good stipulation. I hope that your son will do this.
It is a line drawn, that will help him, and help you protect yourself.

Stay strong Copa, my heart goes out to you.

(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[Tanya M]

I reminded him he had options, including even returning to Brazil if that was what he wanted to do. He did not like that and began swearing at me. I said goodbye and hung up.

You tried to offer him a solution but of course it wasn't what he wanted to hear. Good for you for ending the conversation when he started swearing at you.

All I know is my son does not seem to be learning. First, that it is necessary to compromise. Second, that he cannot make one hundred percent of the rules and impose what he wants in a situation where he has no power. Third, that he has to put some effort into things to get them to go right. Fourth, my son does not seem to value friendship and a hand. He seems to betray those who try to help him. He does not feel any sense of obligation or of gratitude for help, a hand.

Oh I know how you feel. I don't think my son will ever get this either. My son doesn't post on FB often but when he does it affords me a glimpse of how he's doing. He has posted some "positive" stuff and I start to think maybe he's changing, then he will post something that brings me back to reality. He posted a rant about buying some "bad pot" from someone and how he wished this person would die a slow death. Seriously!! Who does that, oh yea, Difficult Child.

My son has burnt his bridges with everybody who has tried to help him. He acts cold and blames others for everything. He feels betrayed. He does not accept that he has to do his part. He thinks he has tried and tried to no avail. I see him as trying not at all.

My son is the same way.

My son does not seem to understand that when he lives with other people in their home, he has to subordinate his will to theirs, at least a little bit. Not biting the hand that feeds you. Simple, no?

Again, same with my son. He only thinks of himself, not those who are helping him.

I dread that he comes back here. I dread these phone calls just as much. I despair that he does not learn, that his life is like groundhog day. The same thing over and over, just worse. Without learning.

I don't blame you Copa. Last year my son sent me a message that he was wanting to come our way in fall and wanted to see us. I felt sick to my stomach but quickly replied that "yes, I would like to see you too. We can meet for lunch or dinner"
He didn't reply and never came. I think he knew by my response that there was no way he was staying here.

There are people who do not learn or change. Typically they believe like my son, that other people are the ones who are thinking and acting incorrectly, not they. These kinds of personalities are very resistant to change, because they do not see themselves as responsible.
The more that my son keeps going as he is, the more I fear he will not change.

Your son and mine share many of the same traits and views on how other people should treat them.

It was such a nice respite these past 4 months to only have to deal with phone calls which got progressively easier as I set limits. I know I can continue the same with him here, if he comes, but for right this second, I wish I did not have to face this.

Copa, I know how you feel. The good thing is you have these 4 months to catch your breath, you have learned some valuable skills. Don't let the fear of him being geographically closer grip you. You know that you can only do what you are comfortable doing. Remember, this is more about you than him. Yes, he's your son and you love him but in the end he has to decide for himself the direction his life will go and even if he makes no decision, that is a decision.

I am thinking that I will help him get an apartment here in my city if he does come back. I will not pay, but I will help him find an apartment so he can be stable. And we can go to social security again to request he get a payee. Because I do not see him making good enough decisions about choosing where to live, and reliably paying rent. Any help from me will have to come with the condition that he request a payee, and get involved with Mental Health.

It's good that you are thinking through what you are comfortable doing. Most of all Copa, take care of yourself first.

((HUGS)) to you my friend.

 

[so ready to live]

I tried to quote your post but it ALL rang so true-did we raise the same boy/man? Tanya too? ..and that is the problem-not learning from experiences-stuck at 13 yo. in so many ways, as a mom what do we do with this? I have felt your strange increasing relief as he is out of the house/area combined with fear of what he is "up to". ..and then he contacts us, taking us down with him again. I have finally concluded that what I have is "profound sadness at the way he is living his life" and yet I see that there is now profound sadness at the way we've lived ours -wasting all these years, thinking we had any power to change this...love to you from those who are "in your boat" You are in my prayers this day.

 

[A dad]

He is not exploitative. He will depend upon other people, but want to feel one hundred percent autonomous. He does not try to hurt other people, it is just the consequences of his unwillingness to let in others needs, and his egocentricity.

Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/com...od-things-come-to-an-end.61612/#ixzz40XZukxZG

This is so similar to my youngest as he does not try to hurt people he hurts them by being as you said unwilling to think about others also. Of course his solution to such things is to give them space. For example a relative of us he was very close to had cancer so his solution to help her with the issue was to cut all contact with her and before they communicated and where very close but when things get tough he is out.
So when things are good he is there for you when things are bad well he is out. Now do not get me wrong when things get tough his solution is always to run away or to avoid the difficult things so he never tried to call the police or to actively try hurt us he tried to avoid us as much as he could.
His solution is of course one of the solutions with the least damage among the bad ones but its not the right one and he will never change I am certain of that he will never learn to deal with bad things in his life he will always try to run away from them.
I know this does not seem so bad for a difficult child but I think it is.

 

[BusynMember]

Nothing came to an end, dear copa. Its an interlude. Perhaps his prenatal substance exposure makes it hard or even not possible to learn from experience. Perhaps not. He can one day choose to get support that will help him do what is necessary for live his best life.
He isnt doing it now, but now is not forever.

He is not dangerous or bad...he is disabled, perhaps in a few ways,so he needs to admit he needs help from others. It is hard to admit especially at his age. Some adults need adult support services but it does not and should not be you who is the one.

"Where there is life, thete is hope."

Big hugs
You sre doing great

 

[Lil]

Oh Copa, I understand too well the desire to disconnect the phone and just hide from it all. Sometimes I think the dread of waiting and expecting the worst is worse than the situations they find themselves in. It is easier when they're far away and can't knock on your door. I have no words of wisdom, just virtual hugs and all my support.