Another failed attempt

[Beta]

Just about a month ago, I filed another one of half a dozen missing person's reports with the Phoenix police. I didn't hear anything until last Friday afternoon. I was hoping that, as previously happened, any police officer who crossed paths with Josh would call me right away and put his phone on speaker and let me try once again to persuade Josh to get help or let us come to Phoenix and meet with us. Unfortunately, how that is handled is up to each individual police officer. In this case, the police officer did not call me but just called the officer in charge of taking the reports to report his interaction with Josh, and that officer then called me. He told me that the acting officer asked Josh if he would like to call/contact me, but Josh said he didn't want to talk to anyone. The officer asked if he wanted to get help, and as usual, Josh said no, he did not.

So, that was really disappointing, not to have had that chance to talk to him again. I had been thinking a lot about what I would say to Josh or ask him should I be able to speak to him again, and I didn't get the chance to do that.

I don't know how to think about this. I mean, it's a given that I will always love and pray for Josh. I pray for him every day, multiple times a day as God brings him to mind. But I have to wonder, does God want me to continue this cycle of "file a report/wait/be disappointed" again and again, or do I just give it up? Josh hangs out in or near a couple of the main libraries in Phoenix. Any time he wanted to get help or to contact us to come, he could do that. Yet, he doesn't.
Just before I heard from the officer on Friday, I had done another posting on FB, with a photo of Josh, asking people to keep a lookout for Josh and asking if they might consider reaching out to him with food, warm clothing, an encouraging word or encouragement to get help, etc. I got a lot of responses from people, some just reacting with empathy; other's promising to keep their eyes open for him. But given Josh's response on Friday, it seems foolish now to have asked people to do that. If he won't respond to my request to contact us, why would he respond to anyone else? I don't think I'll do it again.

I do have moments when I just want to give up entirely and let him go.

 

[ksm]

Hugs. I don't know what I would do in your situation. Just know you have done everything you can do. Ksm

 

[Copabanana]

I have to wonder, does God want me to continue this cycle of "file a report/wait/be disappointed" again and again, or do I just give it up?

I mean, clearly I don't know what G-d wants, but personally I don't think this cycle of what New Leaf calls, wash, rinse, repeat is good for us. But that doesn't mean we give up.

Josh hangs out in or near a couple of the main libraries in Phoenix.

Well. A while back you thought of traveling to Phoenix. I know this must sound like lunacy. Each time I went to the metro where my son was homeless, even when he assured me he would meet me, it was a bust. He didn't show. All it was for me was a few hour train ride each way. I am of the impression that Phoenix is very far away from where you live. Even across the country.

. But given Josh's response on Friday, it seems foolish now to have asked people to do that. If he won't respond to my request to contact us, why would he respond to anyone else? I don't think I'll do it again.

I don't think it was one bit foolish to ask the people to pray, to love him, to watch for him. Look at the response you got!!

I do have moments when I just want to give up entirely and let him go.

I know. But I don't think this is an off/on switch. I think there are other notches on the dial. We tried again, letting my son come back to a rental apartment I own. It was a disaster. He left. But that does not mean that I have to "let him go" or "give up."

My son is not using Fentanyl as far as I know but he has other very high risk factors. He has untreated Hepatitis B. He is brain injured. He does use other drugs. I live with the fear he will die. But I don't have to either deaden myself or give him up. I don't want to be dead and I don't want to give up or give him up.

I don't know the answer. I think it's reassuring that Josh hangs out where he is known, with what is familiar and where he can be found. Josh knows you know where he is. In a peculiar kind of way, he is seeking safety. I don't know how people recover from Fentanyl. There are a lot of things i don't know about Josh, like for one, where he gets the money to buy the drug. My son is on SSI. He uses that money.

I guess what I am trying to say is the issue here is we have to find another notch on that dial. So that we aren't in constant freefall. But I don't think the answer is letting go. I really don't. Nor do I think, Beta, that you're capable of it. I really don't. Love, Copa

PS I don't think this was a "failed attempt." Every contact reminds Josh one more time how much he is loved.

 

[Bettyboo44]

Beta, I can only imagine your disappointment when the officer made contact with Josh and you weren’t granted that opportunity to speak to him, but maybe he doesn’t want to be saved, not now anyway. Maybe one day he will, but as you know better than anyone, that he wont reach out until/if he is ready.
I don’t think your silly for wanting people to be compassionate towards him, but I also don’t think it’s a bad idea at all to take a step back from the idea of travelling looking for him and giving yourself a break from waiting by the phone, posting on social media.
You need to mind you too, and not use up all your time and energy waiting, hoping, trying. Use that energy to be kind to yourself and in the knowledge that police will be in touch with updates and that Josh can reach out through various different libraries if and when he wants to. Who knows, maybe he’ll be more inclined if he thinks it’s his choice rather than feeling that’s what’s expected of him.
Much love and prayers to you Beta and Josh

 

[Copabanana]

I think Josh must feel shame. I think he must want that drug very, very badly. I don't know what will intervene to stop that cycle, but I hope that he will be arrested for something small, and that way given treatment. I say that because I worked in psychiatry in prison working with thousands of people who went off drugs that way. But Josh seems like my son, in that they don't act out to the level that brings arrest and incarceration.

What I do know is this is out of our hands. I used to feel like my heart was outside of my body walking outside on the street. Now I don't. I feel my heart is back inside me. I feel moments of intense pain and sometimes even dread, but I feel peace a whole lot of the time, and I am able to concentrate more on the pain of my own life and how to alleviate it. So, I know Beta, that you can do this. I know that because I am. Love Copa

 

[Beta]

earWell. A while back you thought of traveling to Phoenix. I know this must sound like lunacy. Each time I went to the metro where my son was homeless, even when he assured me he would meet me, it was a bust. He didn't show. All it was for me was a few hour train ride each way. I am of the impression that Phoenix is very far away from where you live. Even across the country.

You've written about doing that before, and it just breaks my heart that that happened to you. That's what I fear would happen even if we could find him in a city like Phoenix with all the homeless population. I couldn't handle that. It would just be more trauma on top of trauma for me. So until he decides that he wants to talk to us, I can't do anything. And yes, we live across the country, just outside Atlanta, Georgia.

I don't think it was one bit foolish to ask the people to pray, to love him, to watch for him. Look at the response you got!!

I actually had two people who responded with something like, "Oh, you don't want to bother getting on a plane and finding your son but you want us to look out for him and help him?" So I kind of wondered about whether I was wrong to do it.

There are a lot of things i don't know about Josh, like for one, where he gets the money to buy the drug.

I'm not sure how he gets all the money he uses, and honestly, I'm afraid to think too much about it, but I know some of it comes from selling things he shoplifts.

I guess what I am trying to say is the issue here is we have to find another notch on that dial. So that we aren't in constant freefall. But I don't think the answer is letting go. I really don't. Nor do I think, Beta, that you're capable of it. I really don't.

I like that way of thinking about it. And you are probably right, I don't think I'm capable of it. I think it would be more painful in a lot of ways.

I think Josh must feel shame. I think he must want that drug very, very badly. I don't know what will intervene to stop that cycle, but I hope that he will be arrested for something small, and that way given treatment. I say that because I worked in psychiatry in prison working with thousands of people who went off drugs that way. But Josh seems like my son, in that they don't act out to the level that brings arrest and incarceration.

Yes, I think so too. At least part of what he feels I believe is shame. I also wonder if he has just given up and given in. As far as being arrested, a police officer told me he would have to commit a felony before he would be arrested. I pray sometimes that he would be arrested so he would be off the streets and not have easy access to the drug. So far, it hasn't happened.

I don't think this was a "failed attempt." Every contact reminds Josh one more time how much he is loved.

Thank you for saying that. I will try to keep that perspective.

 

[Beta]

I don’t think your silly for wanting people to be compassionate towards him, but I also don’t think it’s a bad idea at all to take a step back from the idea of travelling looking for him and giving yourself a break from waiting by the phone, posting on social media.
You need to mind you too, and not use up all your time and energy waiting, hoping, trying. Use that energy to be kind to yourself and in the knowledge that police will be in touch with updates and that Josh can reach out through various different libraries if and when he wants to.

Thank you. I guess I just hope and pray that maybe God will bring someone alongside him on a regular basis who might be able to develop some rapport with him and influence Josh in a positive way. I have filed about six missing persons reports over the last year. I do try to "take a break" of several months at least between them to allow myself not to be focused so much on him. Then I start to wonder if he's alive, and I use the report to help determine at least this much. It really bothers me that Josh is probably using the library and its computers and yet not contacting us at all. If that's true, that really hurts.

Thanks for your prayers and "hugs". Always, always appreciated.

 

[Copabanana]

"Oh, you don't want to bother getting on a plane and finding your son but you want us to look out for him and help him?"

I think this is incredibly cruel. Heartless and cruel. Thank G-d everybody isn't this way.

. It really bothers me that Josh is probably using the library and its computers and yet not contacting us at all. If that's true, that really hurts.

My son is mad at us. Why? Because he did not want to keep his agreement to us, what we asked in return for him to say in the apartment I own. Just basics. No drug use, no smoking, pay for utilities. So he left, he blocked me on his phone
(through the holidays). He has not called. In the past when I ask about this kind of behavior he says,
"I was ashamed."

I think when our sons think of us, they see themselves reflected. And I think they feel kind of disgusted
with themselves. I think this floods them. They can't get beyond it.

I will tell you what i think. My son uses libraries too. I am so grateful he has these safe places.
I want to think of your Josh and my Joseph as having moments of safety and refuge. It matters not a bit to me at this point that Joseph doesn't call me. For most of my day I am able to feel safety myself, and not excruciating crippling fear. I am grateful for that.

 

[Scout999]

I guess I just hope and pray that maybe God will bring someone alongside him on a regular basis who might be able to develop some rapport with him and influence Josh in a positive way.

Praying for you, Beta, and your son Josh. I can hear that pain in your words how much you love him. Big hug. I know the hurt when he doesn't reach out to you. It's like this big personality change has happened. With all the manipulations that are happening with my son, I'm no longer sure that son from the past exists anymore. Hoping you can break from the worrying and do something for yourself.

 

[Beta]

I think this is incredibly cruel. Heartless and cruel. Thank G-d everybody isn't this way.

My son is mad at us. Why? Because he did not want to keep his agreement to us, what we asked in return for him to say in the apartment I own. Just basics. No drug use, no smoking, pay for utilities. So he left, he blocked me on his phone
(through the holidays). He has not called. In the past when I ask about this kind of behavior he says,
"I was ashamed."

I think when our sons think of us, they see themselves reflected. And I think they feel kind of disgusted
with themselves. I think this floods them. They can't get beyond it.

I will tell you what i think. My son uses libraries too. I am so grateful he has these safe places.
I want to think of your Josh and my Joseph as having moments of safety and refuge. It matters not a bit to me at this point that Joseph doesn't call me. For most of my day I am able to feel safety myself, and not excruciating crippling fear. I am grateful for that.

Yes, I am glad too that Josh (and Joseph) may be using libraries, for the same reason.

 

[Beta]

Praying for you, Beta, and your son Josh. I can hear that pain in your words how much you love him. Big hug. I know the hurt when he doesn't reach out to you. It's like this big personality change has happened. With all the manipulations that are happening with my son, I'm no longer sure that son from the past exists anymore. Hoping you can break from the worrying and do something for yourself.

Thank you Scout. I'm sorry that you are dealing with the same pain and frustration with your son. Hugs back at you.

 

[Copabanana]

, I'm no longer sure that son from the past exists anymore.

I think we have some control over this, but only in ourselves. I think we can hold in our minds of that person who we have known all their lives. They will not return as they were, but if we hold onto that memory we hold onto ourselves. I think that is so much better than falling into loss and despair. And who knows what holding onto that positive energy of our love will bring?

 

[Looking For Hope]

Just about a month ago, I filed another one of half a dozen missing person's reports with the Phoenix police. I didn't hear anything until last Friday afternoon. I was hoping that, as previously happened, any police officer who crossed paths with Josh would call me right away and put his phone on speaker and let me try once again to persuade Josh to get help or let us come to Phoenix and meet with us. Unfortunately, how that is handled is up to each individual police officer. In this case, the police officer did not call me but just called the officer in charge of taking the reports to report his interaction with Josh, and that officer then called me. He told me that the acting officer asked Josh if he would like to call/contact me, but Josh said he didn't want to talk to anyone. The officer asked if he wanted to get help, and as usual, Josh said no, he did not.

So, that was really disappointing, not to have had that chance to talk to him again. I had been thinking a lot about what I would say to Josh or ask him should I be able to speak to him again, and I didn't get the chance to do that.

I don't know how to think about this. I mean, it's a given that I will always love and pray for Josh. I pray for him every day, multiple times a day as God brings him to mind. But I have to wonder, does God want me to continue this cycle of "file a report/wait/be disappointed" again and again, or do I just give it up? Josh hangs out in or near a couple of the main libraries in Phoenix. Any time he wanted to get help or to contact us to come, he could do that. Yet, he doesn't.
Just before I heard from the officer on Friday, I had done another posting on FB, with a photo of Josh, asking people to keep a lookout for Josh and asking if they might consider reaching out to him with food, warm clothing, an encouraging word or encouragement to get help, etc. I got a lot of responses from people, some just reacting with empathy; other's promising to keep their eyes open for him. But given Josh's response on Friday, it seems foolish now to have asked people to do that. If he won't respond to my request to contact us, why would he respond to anyone else? I don't think I'll do it again.

I do have moments when I just want to give up entirely and let him go.

i have the exact same situation with my daughter, who is homeless in Los Angeles. I used to see her once a month, but after I stop giving her money, she doesn’t want to visit anymore. She will not accept any other help or even sign up for Medi-Cal. It’s very sad.

 

[So Very Drained]

I think Josh must feel shame. I think he must want that drug very, very badly. I don't know what will intervene to stop that cycle, but I hope that he will be arrested for something small, and that way given treatment. I say that because I worked in psychiatry in prison working with thousands of people who went off drugs that way. But Josh seems like my son, in that they don't act out to the level that brings arrest and incarceration.

What I do know is this is out of our hands. I used to feel like my heart was outside of my body walking outside on the street. Now I don't. I feel my heart is back inside me. I feel moments of intense pain and sometimes even dread, but I feel peace a whole lot of the time, and I am able to concentrate more on the pain of my own life and how to alleviate it. So, I know Beta, that you can do this. I know that because I am. Love Copa

What an awesome response.

 

[Copabanana]

What an awesome response.

I am glad my response meant something to you.

 

[Beta]

Several weeks ago, I tried the Facebook route to try to reach Josh, through other people who might come across his path. A lot of people saw the photos I posted, and there were several people who were certain they had seen him. One man posted a photo of a man from the back, walking away, and said he thought it was Josh. I couldn't be certain but it was possible it was him. It was hard to look at that photo and see how the man was dressed and how the person who took the photo described his gait (shuffling). One lady offered to put up flyers in areas he has been known to be in. I sent her the flyers and she has put up some, but wasn't able to finish the rest just yet because of issues with her car. I really thought that I would hear from people who saw the flyer, and I was hoping and praying that Josh himself might see the flyer and maybe even contact me. But no response as of yet. It's discouraging. I'm thinking about filing another missing persons report and asking that, should a police officer interact with him, a note be put in the report to call me when Josh is still present so I can have another opportunity to talk to him. Every chance could be my last. I'm really tired of this.

 

[Copabanana]

Every chance could be my last. I'm really tired of this.

Hi Beta. M who I live with has a younger brother probably in his 50's who lives in Mexico with their mother (about 96) and other family. Lolo was an extremely enterprising teen until he began to sniff glue and paint and destroyed his brain. He has been psychotic and very regressed for many years. Why am I telling you this? Because periodically Lolo runs away. This time he has not returned. It's been a couple of weeks. Today M told me that his mother has decided that Lolo has died and the only thing now is to find his remains. (There is no objective reason to believe this. Lolo has left before, never this long, but has always returned. So far.) M's mother is a wonderful woman, a saint. She has been through everything in the world that is hard for a woman and mother to go through. Yet. She cannot bear this. In order to give herself a little bit of solace, she has declared Lolo dead. It is unbearable even to type these words.

They have called everywhere. Prisons. Hospitals. The morgue. She cannot bear more. This mother is just done. She's got no more suffering in her.

I am thinking about my Joseph and I don't know what I would do in this mother's position. How I could bear no news, day after day after day. I want to tell you to free yourself. But yesterday I was on the train coming home talking to a very nice lady I will never see again, and I told her about my Joseph and how I have found a way to free myself from the constant, unrelenting pain. She said, "you've moved on."

I said, no, I can't ever move on, but what I have found is a way to put the pain on the back burner most of the time. When I remember I feel pain. But much of the time it is not in the forefront of my brain. I live for myself now. But still, I don't know what it would be for me if I feared Joseph would never call or come home again. I just don't know. I don't want to know.

I feel that we resist putting our suffering on the back burner. It does not help our children. We have to find a way each of us to live without being destroyed. I believe G-d wants us to be whole.

 

[Copabanana]

Every chance could be my last

Every time we say goodbye to our partners, or anybody else we love, could be the last. I am not trivializing your pain. How could I? But the reality of death is there for all of us, isn't it?

 

[Beta]

But still, I don't know what it would be for me if I feared Joseph would never call or come home again. I just don't know. I don't want to know.

I don't blame you for not wanting to know. I wish I didn't know. Sometimes I'll think of Josh, and I'll start to text him. Then I remember with a start that I can't do that because he no longer has a phone. And I feel the pit of my stomach lurch inside of me once again and the "what if's" hit my mind. I still have trouble wrapping my brain around the fact that he is not reachable in normal ways and that this has happened to him and to us.

I said, no, I can't ever move on, but what I have found is a way to put the pain on the back burner most of the time.

I think I have done this, for the most part. At least, enough to be able to go to work and carry out my responsibilities each day. I compartmentalize. But once that's done, it comes rushing in again. On my way to and from work, there's a homeless man who is often lying on the side of a convenience store. That hurts to see that. I have flashbacks of Josh at different times of life, different conversations and circumstances. I daydream sometimes about how wonderful it would be to turn the clock back to when he was a little boy and start over. I'm terrified that the phone call will come, and there will no longer be hope. I function but there's a low level of depression that I live with that I keep under wraps when I'm around other people who don't know about our son. I don't think I can ever really move on or give up trying to find him or persuade him, and that's depressing because it's hard to live this way. It alters you, as you well know, and it alters your relationships, and not necessarily in a good way. I don't know what else to do but to keep doing what I've been doing so I will probably file another of the missing person's reports and hope and pray that this time something good will happen.

 

[Copabanana]

a homeless man who is often lying on the side of a convenience store. That hurts to see that.

Me too. I was in a big metro on Monday by myself. A scuzzy neighborhood. Lots of marginal and homeless people. I recoiled. That isn't like me. And then, the realization that other people see my son this way. What a life!