Beginning of the end?
- Thread starter Mikey
- Start date
Coookie
Active Member
Mikey,
Sending gentle hugs and saying prayers for you all.
As hard, and painful, as it may be I would encourage you to step back and let wife handle all concerning your difficult child. She thinks she can do it better so maybe letting her try will show her that you two need to be united?
I certainly would let her know that after you have stepped back that any anger or hurt she may feel because of difficult children actions should be directed to him as you had no part in it. I know this will be extremely hard...been there done that... and as my dear husband has said to me, you will have to "Sit on your lips".
I have been doing a lot of reading on Toxic relationships because of my difficult child and how destructive they can be and it seems to me that your wife is caught in the enabling phase and is therefore toxic both for you and your difficult child. It goes without saying that when our difficult children are at their worst it is a toxic relationship.
I spent a lot of time trying to FIX my difficult child.... if only I did this or that... things would be better... NOT!!! Your wife needs to realize that your difficult child is the only one who can FIX what is going on with him... but I don't think you will be able to help her realize this.
I'm sure others have suggested this but we have a wonderful link to a detachment article. I have the "Letting Go" part pasted on my fridge and read it every morning.
This is not an easy road...
Sending gentle hugs and saying prayers for you all.
As hard, and painful, as it may be I would encourage you to step back and let wife handle all concerning your difficult child. She thinks she can do it better so maybe letting her try will show her that you two need to be united?I certainly would let her know that after you have stepped back that any anger or hurt she may feel because of difficult children actions should be directed to him as you had no part in it. I know this will be extremely hard...been there done that... and as my dear husband has said to me, you will have to "Sit on your lips".
I have been doing a lot of reading on Toxic relationships because of my difficult child and how destructive they can be and it seems to me that your wife is caught in the enabling phase and is therefore toxic both for you and your difficult child. It goes without saying that when our difficult children are at their worst it is a toxic relationship.
I spent a lot of time trying to FIX my difficult child.... if only I did this or that... things would be better... NOT!!! Your wife needs to realize that your difficult child is the only one who can FIX what is going on with him... but I don't think you will be able to help her realize this.
I'm sure others have suggested this but we have a wonderful link to a detachment article. I have the "Letting Go" part pasted on my fridge and read it every morning.
This is not an easy road...
Mikey
Psycho Gorilla Dad
Actually, I think it's written into the genetic code, and set to activate when the testosterone starts to flow. I even remember my Dad telling me a story about a time when he was a kid, got caught with "a fifth of something or other", and told his dad that "he was just holding it for a friend until later that night".
That was almost 60 years ago.
Mikey
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Haha. I k now it's not funny, but strangely, my daughter was the good person who held things for everyone. The cigarettes in her purse belonged to her friends, the booze we found, the pipe she'd forgotten to remove from our car, etc. I guess she was just being a great, loyal friend
CAmom
Member
Just my .02 cents...I wouldn't waste my breath on discussions with a presumably intelligent (??) 18-year-old about why a backpack-full of beer isn't okay. He certainly already knows and probably gets a huge kick out of getting you to react.
My father gave me some advice years ago which I wish I'd taken and which would have saved me and my husband a lot of stress and frustration had we done so...that was to stop reacting (including talking) and start acting.
All the loving heart-to-heart discussions we had with our son when we actually believed love was enough got us no further than the angry confrontations and all simply resulted in a lot of useless dialogue.
My father gave me some advice years ago which I wish I'd taken and which would have saved me and my husband a lot of stress and frustration had we done so...that was to stop reacting (including talking) and start acting.
All the loving heart-to-heart discussions we had with our son when we actually believed love was enough got us no further than the angry confrontations and all simply resulted in a lot of useless dialogue.
Mikey
Psycho Gorilla Dad
CAMom: True enough. I doubt that McWeedy hears one out of every ten words I say, and ignores most of the ones he DOES hear. The sad truth is that I talk to him, explain these things to him for my own benefit. I've long ago given up hope that McWeedy actually listens to me.
All my life I've felt the need to explain things, explain my decisions. I guess that comes from trying to convince ME that I'm doing the right thing. It's probably an ADD thing, involving hearing my own words so I can decide if I'm right (involving more than one sense). I also write to do the same thing, but when I found the last four letters I wrote to McW in the trash - unopened, I stopped trying to give them to him. I still write them, though, but keep them on my computer. Maybe one day I can give them to him, but right now it's how I get the venom and pain out of my system.
And, I guess there's a teensy bit of hope there, too. Years before McW became an issue, Sarge and I used to go at it quite a bit (two Type "A" Italian males living under the same roof - capisce?) I tried to talk to Sarge during those times as well, only Sarge would fight back - even if he didn't make a lick of sense, he fought back. I worried a lot about him until one day I had a long talk with his girlfriend. She said that Sarge would never admit it, but that he did listen to me when I spoke honestly to him. I guess there's a part of me that hopes McW is listening to me, too, even if he doesn't admit it either.
But, even if he isn't, talking to him (or at him) is as much about helping me through a difficult situation as it is about trying (in vain) to get him to act responsibly. And, maybe this sounds bad, but if the worst happens to him at least I'll be able to say I tried my best to make him understand what was happening. It'll be cold comfort, but it may be the only comfort I have then, and it'll be one less thing for me to regret.
I just want to know that I tried. Hope I made sense, but if I didn't, then I apologize.
Mikey
All my life I've felt the need to explain things, explain my decisions. I guess that comes from trying to convince ME that I'm doing the right thing. It's probably an ADD thing, involving hearing my own words so I can decide if I'm right (involving more than one sense). I also write to do the same thing, but when I found the last four letters I wrote to McW in the trash - unopened, I stopped trying to give them to him. I still write them, though, but keep them on my computer. Maybe one day I can give them to him, but right now it's how I get the venom and pain out of my system.
And, I guess there's a teensy bit of hope there, too. Years before McW became an issue, Sarge and I used to go at it quite a bit (two Type "A" Italian males living under the same roof - capisce?) I tried to talk to Sarge during those times as well, only Sarge would fight back - even if he didn't make a lick of sense, he fought back. I worried a lot about him until one day I had a long talk with his girlfriend. She said that Sarge would never admit it, but that he did listen to me when I spoke honestly to him. I guess there's a part of me that hopes McW is listening to me, too, even if he doesn't admit it either.
But, even if he isn't, talking to him (or at him) is as much about helping me through a difficult situation as it is about trying (in vain) to get him to act responsibly. And, maybe this sounds bad, but if the worst happens to him at least I'll be able to say I tried my best to make him understand what was happening. It'll be cold comfort, but it may be the only comfort I have then, and it'll be one less thing for me to regret.
I just want to know that I tried. Hope I made sense, but if I didn't, then I apologize.
Mikey
CAMom,
I hear you. My dtr was so convincing in those heart-to-heart talks--she really seemed to "get it." Even her therapist thought she got it but gee, every time she left therapy, she seemed to do the opposite of what her therapist suggested and there she had sat, so charming and so agreeable! I think she "got it" all right, she just had no intention of doing it! And I do think she got a lot of satisfaction out of the drama and seeing us react.
I agree, Mikey, less words are probably best with your son. He is probably getting some kind of satisfaction out of seeing you upset and having you engage him in conversation.
Hugs,
Jane
I hear you. My dtr was so convincing in those heart-to-heart talks--she really seemed to "get it." Even her therapist thought she got it but gee, every time she left therapy, she seemed to do the opposite of what her therapist suggested and there she had sat, so charming and so agreeable! I think she "got it" all right, she just had no intention of doing it! And I do think she got a lot of satisfaction out of the drama and seeing us react.
I agree, Mikey, less words are probably best with your son. He is probably getting some kind of satisfaction out of seeing you upset and having you engage him in conversation.
Hugs,
Jane
CAmom
Member
Mikey, you made perfect sense, and I totally understand where you're coming from. In fact, as I mentioned, we did the same thing for the same reasons.
I guess we finally got to the point where we realized that all we were doing was making a lot of noise in explanations, admonitions, and recriminations, which was only giving our son a great game of ping-pong.
What he really needed, and what finally helped him, was when we stopped, and, in the ensuing silence when he found that ball resting firmly in his own hands, he was finally forced to look not at us but inside himself for the questions and answers.
Even so, he's still very much a work in progress...
I guess we finally got to the point where we realized that all we were doing was making a lot of noise in explanations, admonitions, and recriminations, which was only giving our son a great game of ping-pong.
What he really needed, and what finally helped him, was when we stopped, and, in the ensuing silence when he found that ball resting firmly in his own hands, he was finally forced to look not at us but inside himself for the questions and answers.
Even so, he's still very much a work in progress...
CAmom
Member
Jane, yep...that would be my son too. He's always been a master of the schmooze. He was speaking in complete sentences at 18 months of age and hasn't shut up yet.
In the past, we mistakenly believed that his above-average verbal skills actually indicated the potential for above-average performance. Maybe so in some kids, but not ours. He simply learned that he could talk a great story that got everyone hooked, including us, and then he could blow smoke (literally at times) to distract everyone from that schmooze factor.
And, like your daughter, I think our son got a real kick out of all the attention. After all, if you're successful at something, of course you're going to feel some sort of gratification!
In the past, we mistakenly believed that his above-average verbal skills actually indicated the potential for above-average performance. Maybe so in some kids, but not ours. He simply learned that he could talk a great story that got everyone hooked, including us, and then he could blow smoke (literally at times) to distract everyone from that schmooze factor.
And, like your daughter, I think our son got a real kick out of all the attention. After all, if you're successful at something, of course you're going to feel some sort of gratification!
donna723
Well-Known Member
"It's not mine - I'm holding it for someone". 
Mikey, I'm sure you already know that's the oldest line in the book! And I'll bet that every kid that has ever said that to their parents thinks that they're such a clever thing for coming up with that brilliant original line!
And that IS what they say on COPS all the time! When the police officer is pulling the crack pipe and baggie full of pills out of the guys pocket, they always say one of two thing: They will either say, "That's not mine - I'm holding it for someone", or they will have the nerve to look amazed and exclaim, "HOW DID THAT GET IN THERE? SOMEBODY MUST HAVE PUT IT THERE WHEN I WASN'T LOOKING!"
Mikey, I'm sure you already know that's the oldest line in the book! And I'll bet that every kid that has ever said that to their parents thinks that they're such a clever thing for coming up with that brilliant original line!
And that IS what they say on COPS all the time! When the police officer is pulling the crack pipe and baggie full of pills out of the guys pocket, they always say one of two thing: They will either say, "That's not mine - I'm holding it for someone", or they will have the nerve to look amazed and exclaim, "HOW DID THAT GET IN THERE? SOMEBODY MUST HAVE PUT IT THERE WHEN I WASN'T LOOKING!"
Mikey,
If you are going to call the PO or police, you need to HAVE the substance, not have it down the sink or the toilet. If you flush it or dump it, you have NO EVIDENCE. Therefore the officer cannot do anything.
I totally agree with Coookie, "Sit on your Lips!" It is contrary to your nature, but so is McWeedy.
Let husband do the pouring, the flushing, the calling. When she is angry and sending the anger your way redirect her firmly but gently. Just like you would a small child. It will be HARD, but you have to stop reacting to McW and wife. Show wife your love, take her on dates, support her in other ways, but step out of the McW drama.
It may be the only way to get her to unite with you and help McW hit bottom.
Susie
If you are going to call the PO or police, you need to HAVE the substance, not have it down the sink or the toilet. If you flush it or dump it, you have NO EVIDENCE. Therefore the officer cannot do anything.
I totally agree with Coookie, "Sit on your Lips!" It is contrary to your nature, but so is McWeedy.
Let husband do the pouring, the flushing, the calling. When she is angry and sending the anger your way redirect her firmly but gently. Just like you would a small child. It will be HARD, but you have to stop reacting to McW and wife. Show wife your love, take her on dates, support her in other ways, but step out of the McW drama.
It may be the only way to get her to unite with you and help McW hit bottom.
Susie
wakeupcall
Well-Known Member
Mikey, I've read all 50+ of these posts on this subject. It pains me for all of you. My very best friend was your wife....she enabled her son for years upon years upon years. Son did it all, and she cried and lost sleep and LOTS of money bailing him out, paying fines, buying him more cars....as he continued LONGER because she did it all. Her husband stayed out of all of it except for being the cash cow. She and her husband were almost ruined financially before she finally gave it up. Son has been in the pen for six years this time....he's getting out in June and she has a room for him......he's 33 years old and the bio father of MY difficult child. Scary, I tell ya.
All I can do for my difficult child is pray that all the interventions we've had in place since he was four years old will pay off some day. Yes, I still have hope there is a point where nuture beats out nature......god help me.
All I can do for my difficult child is pray that all the interventions we've had in place since he was four years old will pay off some day. Yes, I still have hope there is a point where nuture beats out nature......god help me.
