whateveryousay2007
New Member
oh...yeah...
and he constantly wants to draw....he'd rather have sketch paper & markers than any toy....
and he constantly wants to draw....he'd rather have sketch paper & markers than any toy....
Child with ADD & possibly Aspergers?
- Thread starter whateveryousay2007
- Start date
Sheila
Moderator
My son is on the spectrum also. I'm happy to report that he has been responsive to interventions/therapies and it is very unlikely that he would be diagnosed with-Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified today. It's still there, but he's come a long, long way.
Couple of other links for you:
http://www.parentcenterhub.org/resources/
Info such as, "Obsessive-compulsive disorder (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)) and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are often comorbid psychiatric symptoms that some clinicians label separately, whereas others include them as part of the presentation of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). Regardless of the approach, these symptoms of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and ADHD may be disabling and require treatment with standard approaches that include but that are not limited to medications and behavioral therapy." can be helpful also.
I also wanted to comment on, "When he was a baby he always had ear infections/tubes and his speech was a little delayed." Ear infections can certainly have an adverse impact on language development, but what many parents do not know is that ear infections can cause Central Auditory Processing Disorder. Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) is not a hearing loss.
Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) aka Auditory Processing Disorder is diagnosed by an audiologist with-experience and proper sophisticated equipment to do the testing, but treated by a speech language pathologist. There are different types of Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) -- see http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/medical/ears/central_auditory.html .
Not to complicate things for you, but Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) is difficult to distinguish from ADHD. Something you might want to discuss with-the doctor. in my opinion, sometimes ruling out a problem is just as important as ruling one in.
Couple of other links for you:
http://www.parentcenterhub.org/resources/
Info such as, "Obsessive-compulsive disorder (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)) and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are often comorbid psychiatric symptoms that some clinicians label separately, whereas others include them as part of the presentation of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). Regardless of the approach, these symptoms of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and ADHD may be disabling and require treatment with standard approaches that include but that are not limited to medications and behavioral therapy." can be helpful also.
I also wanted to comment on, "When he was a baby he always had ear infections/tubes and his speech was a little delayed." Ear infections can certainly have an adverse impact on language development, but what many parents do not know is that ear infections can cause Central Auditory Processing Disorder. Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) is not a hearing loss.
Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) aka Auditory Processing Disorder is diagnosed by an audiologist with-experience and proper sophisticated equipment to do the testing, but treated by a speech language pathologist. There are different types of Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) -- see http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/medical/ears/central_auditory.html .
Not to complicate things for you, but Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) is difficult to distinguish from ADHD. Something you might want to discuss with-the doctor. in my opinion, sometimes ruling out a problem is just as important as ruling one in.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
My son is Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified. I believe they are both on the autism spectrum. I was told a speech delay means no Aspergers, although I'm not sure this always follows. I think professionals use their own criteria. My son COULD be considered Aspergers because he's so high functioning, however he did have a speech delay, hyperlexia, and echolalia early on. My son also had early trouble answering "w" questions "what, why, where, what?"
When asked, "What's your name?" he'd answer "name" yet he knew his name and would respond to it. This symptom went away by age three/early four for Lucas.
My eleven year old definitely has Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD), which has given her a lot of trouble in school. She never had any ear infections and she spoke early and clearly. This problem affects her most with reading and understanding directions unless she is shown them rather than just told them. In no way is this child on the spectrum. She is very social and extremely appropriate with her peers, very well liked too.
When asked, "What's your name?" he'd answer "name" yet he knew his name and would respond to it. This symptom went away by age three/early four for Lucas.
My eleven year old definitely has Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD), which has given her a lot of trouble in school. She never had any ear infections and she spoke early and clearly. This problem affects her most with reading and understanding directions unless she is shown them rather than just told them. In no way is this child on the spectrum. She is very social and extremely appropriate with her peers, very well liked too.
Marguerite
Active Member
I've got one of each as well as a borderline Aspie.
The quoting large slabs of test - it's not what I called echolalia, I can't remember what I DID call it, but yeah, it happens a lot. difficult child 3 especially, although not as much now he's older. What I called echolalia was where I would say something, perhaps ask a question, and he would simply repeat what I said. Maybe he'd only repeat the last few words or syllables. At first he would only repeat, then he would repeat, followed by his own response.
For example:
Me: Do you want a drink?
difficult child 3: Do you want a drink? Yes, please.
Other related oddities in speech also, including apparent inability to communicate UNLESS he did things this way.
This was when he was much younger, say around three or four.
Some really good websites have been suggested. Trawl through those before you go to a bookshop - you can spend a fortune in a bookshop and still not get what you need. A library is better, before you buy the books make sure they're the ones you want.
When I first suspected something wrong with difficult child 1, I kept asking every health professional who saw him, "What is wrong?" and I kept getting told, "Nothing is wrong with him. You had a girl first, now you have a boy. Children are all very different from each other, boys and girls are very different. Don't worry, he's fine,"
But he wasn't. I even point-blank asked his psychologist if there was any chance difficult child 1 had "some form of high-functioning autism" (my words - I thought I had defined a new term just for us). I was told, "No way, I've worked with autism, this isn't it."
If I'd known then what we know now, difficult child 1 would have had a much better time going through school plus a greater amount of support.
What brought about the confirmed diagnosis was having a baby brother who was so obviously dysfunctional. I dragged ALL my kids to various doctors to get them ALL checked out, all at the same time. As one doctor described, "It was a very lively session."
Back to your son - stop fighting him. You will lose. ALL his determination is getting bound up in getting what he is certain he NEEDS, while not all of yours is, you have other things to consider as well, you can never be as single-minded in your determination as he can be.
And husband - he can focus more of his stubbornness on difficult child, but is it working? Nope.
So now we've established - irresistible force meeting immovable object is NOT what you want happening within your own four walls.
There are other options, which are definitely worth trying. You need to get husband on board with this as well, or it will go pear-shaped, especially for husband. And to begin with, both of you will be resistant; if difficult child is hard enough to control when you both put as much tight control in your handling of him as you can, how on earth will he ever learn, if you both ease back?
He will. And what you're doing now is not working, and is getting worse every time.
So here's the next book to dig out of the library - "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene.
It's not a cure. It's a very different way of handling some kids. The parenting techniques you've been using up until now were the way we were brought up to perceive as good parenting. They work for most kids. But there are some for whom this parenting style is disastrous. It makes them worse.
The Ross Greene method is not favoured by everybody, although a lot of people here have found it helpful. It will also work for kids who are NOT a problem. But again, you need to be consistent - it's a different kind of consistency. Most of it revolved around handing some control back to the child. A Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid especially, craves control over what he perceives as a very chaotic and confusing world. So the more YOU try to control him, the more he fights you. But when HE sees he has choices, he values them. He also sees you trying to keep him calm and he learns to value that as well.
A problem I found with the book is that it seems to take forever to get to some answers. And yet, while I was reading the book and before I thought I had got to anything useful, difficult child 3's behaviour improved.
What you need to do is watch him and observe - what sets him off? What makes him angry? What makes him difficult to reason with? Then think - what can you do to head off a meltdown before it really gets going?
Next make a list of the things you want to change. You have three baskets (this is from the earlier edition but even though I've read the second one, the basket description works better for me).
Basket A - this is where you put the behaviours that you will INSIST on changing even if it causes a meltdown.
Basket B - the ones you want to work on, but you will back off before he gets upset rather than force the issue.
Basket C - everything else that you can leave until later. As Basket B empties out, things move from basket C to Basket B.
The child does not need to know about any of this.
Now look back at your lists - I'm betting Basket A is fairly full; so is Basket B. You may have just now conceded, and put a lot of things into Basket C.
But think again -
Basket A MUST NOT contain anything other than immediate, urgent safety; and school attendance. For me, the school attendance is Basket B.
Example - your kid's ball rolls out into the road and he's running to get it, not seeing the oncoming car. You grab your child knowing that he will rage at you; but better alive and raging than hit by the car.
Second example - your kid's ball rolls out into the street but there is no oncoming traffic at all. You don't grab him but you call to him to at least look. When he gets back with the ball, you remind him he should have looked. Maybe you rehears what he should have done, if he is compliant. But if rehearsing it is beginning to upset him, ease back. You will get another opportunity, when he is more receptive. Forcing a lesson on an unreceptive kid will not lead to anything positive learned.
Basket B - what you put in this will vary. Maybe give him more choice in what he likes to eat, trying to insist on him trying new foods but not at the risk of meltdown. For us, 'trying new food' is a fairly permanent Basket B thing. Increasingly though, he is compliant and we aren't risking meltdown unless we're forcing him to try a food group we know he hates (such as creamy textures, plus anything with prawn, lobster or crab). Maybe choice of clothing to wear, especially if you're staying home. Or if you're going out and you want him to be presentable, give him choice such as, "Which sweater do you want to wear? The blue one, or the red one?" At least he's wearing a sweater!
Basket C - everything you're either not concerned about, or know he can't handle yet.
You need to have husband on side, with the same Basket items and the same response to approaching meltdowns. husband CAN NOT try to go back to the old techniques when you're not around, thinking that you can't see so why worry? Because you WILL see, in difficult child's changed attitude to any parent who is not using this technique.
Some people view this as spoiling the child, handing over all control so the child runs wild. But done right, and with a child who is not too manipulative, this works. The result is a child who begins to see you as a helper, not an obstacle. And your attitude to the child changes, to someone who sees the child as really trying to overcome HIS obstacles with your help. You and the child become a team, working together to teach him functional independence.
Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids are generally very law-abiding. However, the laws they follow are the ones they work out for themselves, rather than the ones they're drilled in. For example, difficult child 3 has memorised our road rules. One road rule is "Do not go over 40 kph in a school zone, during school hours." As it happens, this is a rule strictly enforced and therefore strictly obeyed. But if difficult child 3 sees cars regularly speeding through school crossings at 60 kph, in his head he thinks, "The rules say to not go over 40, but this must be advisory because IN ACTUALITY it happens all the time. So the law must REALLY be, 'It's OK to go over 40 kph in a school zone if there's nobody else around.'"
difficult child 3 was taught that it is wrong to hit other kids, even to hit back if someone hits you. But what he SAW - in the playground with no teacher watching, a kid would hit someone AND get hit back, and they wouldn't get into trouble. Then a kid would hit HIM, and difficult child 3 would hit back (because from his own observation, it IS OK to do this) and difficult child 3 would get into trouble. Over time, with repeat incidents which almost always led to difficult child 3 getting into trouble because kids would dob, or it would happen with teachers watching, the rule inside difficult child 3's head becomes, "It's OK to hit back if you've been hit, unless you're difficult child 3. But then - I'm going to get into trouble anyway, just for being who I am, so I may as well hit back, it won't be any worse."
Something else interesting you might want to try - see what happens if you put the subtitles on the film he's watching. Your difficult child may not care, but some LOVE the subtitles, it boosts their understanding and really boosts recovery from language delay.
Also, get some trailers from other animations done by the same animators, Pixar. You could expand his horizons a bit more this way. Mind you, whatever he decides he likes, he will watch over and over and over and over and...
There is a lot to love in a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) child. Autism is no longer the 'doom and gloom' diagnosis it used to be. These kids have potential, they have hope, they can surprise you. And when they hug you, you KNOW it's genuine. Contrary to earlier beliefs, these kids DO feel emotion, often very strongly, more than a lot of people. It's just that they often express their feelings in ways we don't always recognise. An expressionless face or voice, for example, may hide their strong feelings on a topic. Humour is a challenge, but when they begin to 'get it' it's hilarious. Both my boys have very infectious giggles. And difficult child 1's prodigious memory means he has vast recall of a vast store of jokes and responses. He only occasionally uses it, but to devastating effect.
difficult child 3 is also really fast with an appropriate (although not original) response; he then spoils it by explaining the joke. We're trying to break him of that one. And husband - we think he's a bit Aspie as well - had to teach himself to smile, just a little bit, when he tells a joke. People used never be sure if he really was making a joke, he always looked so serious. And this is in the last few decades - I've had people come up to me and say, "Did I just hear husband say what I thought he said? Surely he's not serious! But he must be. WAS he joking? I can't tell, and it's weirding me out."
Hang in there, keep us posted on how you're getting on.
Marg
whateveryousay2007
New Member
IT WAS AN AWFUL DAY AT SCHOOL YESTERDAY!!!!! His teacher is wonderful. He had a dentist appointment yesterday (tooth being pulled) so I took the day off of work to help out with his "walk-a-thon" and to be class mommy.
My brother went to because my son absolutely loves him to death. So we went. He was excited to see us. I was the only parent to come help out so he was in a good mood. And when he woke up this morning he was in a great mood. (very odd)
Well....we did arts & crafts. Then went outside to exercise. He did 19 laps and then sat down in the middle of the track pouting. Why? I don't know. That was it.....his mood was shot for the rest of the day. We couldn't get us to tell us why so we just let him sit beside us while we marked laps for his classmates.
Then we went in. His teacher introduced me to the school Pshc. She urged Seth to go to the class with her so we could talk. He refused. He stood there beside me and ignored her. So she left him with me. We stood there and spoke breifly (not about Seth because that's not the right thing to do) but just about how wonderful he is.
He's still in a bad mood. he puts his head on the cafeteria table & won't respond to anyone. After a few moments I told him I was going to his classroom. He didn't move. You don't pick him up when he's acting like that because he will resist & cry.
So after 10 minutes of walking off and watching him I finally got him to go back to his room. He stayed out in the hallway crying. I told him that if he wanted to go ahead and leave I would take him. I had to come back and get him out early anyway.
So I peeked in the room and his teacher came out. She sat down and talked to him. He finally told us that someone bumped into him on the field. that's why he was in a bad mood. then he didn't want to go back in the room because his face was red. So we stayed outside until he dried it up.
She told him that he could go in and play on her computer instead of watching cartoons if he would do what she asked him to. I told him either I could take him now or come back. It was 10:48 he looked at me and said come back at exactly 11:05. I told him no. I wasn't driving down the street to turn around & come back.
So he told me to get him later. I did. He was fine then. She had told me to watch how he acts in class. I see that he does act different. Very emotional. Happy one minute and emotional wreck the next.
Well...he ate lunch at school & then he wanted to eat lunch before the dentist. I told him he wouldn't eat it. Oh, yes he could. He didn't.
He did wonderful at the dentist & pretty good trick-or-treating. But....he is becoming increasingly more moody everyday. It was a battle this morning. at least he did hug me before he left for school.
Everyone makes a big deal about him not wanting to be touched. He's actually very affectionate....but....if he's even just a little bit aggrivated it's hands off!!!! I'm wondering if that's every child or just him?
My brother went to because my son absolutely loves him to death. So we went. He was excited to see us. I was the only parent to come help out so he was in a good mood. And when he woke up this morning he was in a great mood. (very odd)
Well....we did arts & crafts. Then went outside to exercise. He did 19 laps and then sat down in the middle of the track pouting. Why? I don't know. That was it.....his mood was shot for the rest of the day. We couldn't get us to tell us why so we just let him sit beside us while we marked laps for his classmates.
Then we went in. His teacher introduced me to the school Pshc. She urged Seth to go to the class with her so we could talk. He refused. He stood there beside me and ignored her. So she left him with me. We stood there and spoke breifly (not about Seth because that's not the right thing to do) but just about how wonderful he is.
He's still in a bad mood. he puts his head on the cafeteria table & won't respond to anyone. After a few moments I told him I was going to his classroom. He didn't move. You don't pick him up when he's acting like that because he will resist & cry.
So after 10 minutes of walking off and watching him I finally got him to go back to his room. He stayed out in the hallway crying. I told him that if he wanted to go ahead and leave I would take him. I had to come back and get him out early anyway.
So I peeked in the room and his teacher came out. She sat down and talked to him. He finally told us that someone bumped into him on the field. that's why he was in a bad mood. then he didn't want to go back in the room because his face was red. So we stayed outside until he dried it up.
She told him that he could go in and play on her computer instead of watching cartoons if he would do what she asked him to. I told him either I could take him now or come back. It was 10:48 he looked at me and said come back at exactly 11:05. I told him no. I wasn't driving down the street to turn around & come back.
So he told me to get him later. I did. He was fine then. She had told me to watch how he acts in class. I see that he does act different. Very emotional. Happy one minute and emotional wreck the next.
Well...he ate lunch at school & then he wanted to eat lunch before the dentist. I told him he wouldn't eat it. Oh, yes he could. He didn't.
He did wonderful at the dentist & pretty good trick-or-treating. But....he is becoming increasingly more moody everyday. It was a battle this morning. at least he did hug me before he left for school.
Everyone makes a big deal about him not wanting to be touched. He's actually very affectionate....but....if he's even just a little bit aggrivated it's hands off!!!! I'm wondering if that's every child or just him?
Please take time out to do nice things for yourself. That 10 minutes of quiet with a cupof coffee, the bubble bath, a nice hand lotion, things to lift YOU. If mommy isn't happy, nobody is happy.
An autism diagnosis is not cut and dried. It is a whole spectrum, just like the rainbow is. Some kids have just a few problems, some have very severe ones. Pediatricians do not normally pick up on this.
Parents do, schools do, and there are several kinds of docs that do very thorough testing. It sounds like you are going to see a developmental pediatrician at Vanderbilt. I completely LOVED our devel. pediatrician. He was completely wonderful, would respond to phone calls and emails, did a lot of testing, much like what midwest mom got from the neuropsychologist.
In general, a multidisciplinary evaluation will include most of the types of docs we talk about, though it is tough to get a multidisc evaluation outside of a Children's hospital. Sounds like it is certainly worth the wait.
in my opinion, husband's are very resistant to the idea there is something "wrong" with their son. Bio, adopted, or simply present, dads just don't want it to be true. My husband was SO hard to convince, but when it got through it made life a whole lot easier. There is a parenting guide you may find interesting and useful. We love it, and there are a number of FREE things on the website. It is http://www.loveandlogic.com I love it because it helped us, and because my husband thought it made sense. Since husband understands it, we are on the same page and it is harder for the kids to irritate and agitate.
An autism diagnosis is NOT a prescription for life-long dependence and helplessness, nor is it a sign of low intelligence. Often Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) (autistic spectrum disorder) kids have very high IQ's. They jsut don't think the way other people do, nor do they process things the way others do.
My son (16 in 3 weeks - EEK!) has aspergers. He is not as severely affected as other people with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), and I am sure there are people who are even less affected. He is now a junior in high school, finishing his last core class this year so he can take classes in metalworking at the Tech school his senior year and the year after that.
I fought like a mama bear to get what he needed. I truly thought he would NEVER function outside of a locked facility. We had some pretty great days and some really really horrible ones.
We got the right interventions, helps, parenting tools, medications, and I am pretty sure he is going to be OK. He has really worked to learn to be a good big bro.
There is hope with an autism diagnosis. There really is. Please check out the love and logic info. The books are on the website, and many are carried in bookstores also. You may also find help in The Explosive Child by Ross Greene.
Welcome to our cyber home!
Hugs,
Susie
An autism diagnosis is not cut and dried. It is a whole spectrum, just like the rainbow is. Some kids have just a few problems, some have very severe ones. Pediatricians do not normally pick up on this.
Parents do, schools do, and there are several kinds of docs that do very thorough testing. It sounds like you are going to see a developmental pediatrician at Vanderbilt. I completely LOVED our devel. pediatrician. He was completely wonderful, would respond to phone calls and emails, did a lot of testing, much like what midwest mom got from the neuropsychologist.
In general, a multidisciplinary evaluation will include most of the types of docs we talk about, though it is tough to get a multidisc evaluation outside of a Children's hospital. Sounds like it is certainly worth the wait.
in my opinion, husband's are very resistant to the idea there is something "wrong" with their son. Bio, adopted, or simply present, dads just don't want it to be true. My husband was SO hard to convince, but when it got through it made life a whole lot easier. There is a parenting guide you may find interesting and useful. We love it, and there are a number of FREE things on the website. It is http://www.loveandlogic.com I love it because it helped us, and because my husband thought it made sense. Since husband understands it, we are on the same page and it is harder for the kids to irritate and agitate.
An autism diagnosis is NOT a prescription for life-long dependence and helplessness, nor is it a sign of low intelligence. Often Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) (autistic spectrum disorder) kids have very high IQ's. They jsut don't think the way other people do, nor do they process things the way others do.
My son (16 in 3 weeks - EEK!) has aspergers. He is not as severely affected as other people with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), and I am sure there are people who are even less affected. He is now a junior in high school, finishing his last core class this year so he can take classes in metalworking at the Tech school his senior year and the year after that.
I fought like a mama bear to get what he needed. I truly thought he would NEVER function outside of a locked facility. We had some pretty great days and some really really horrible ones.
We got the right interventions, helps, parenting tools, medications, and I am pretty sure he is going to be OK. He has really worked to learn to be a good big bro.
There is hope with an autism diagnosis. There really is. Please check out the love and logic info. The books are on the website, and many are carried in bookstores also. You may also find help in The Explosive Child by Ross Greene.
Welcome to our cyber home!
Hugs,
Susie
whateveryousay2007
New Member
Thanks for the info. I've been fortunate enough that he had a teacher this year with a sharp eye. she saw problems that I thought was mere ADD and stayed in the loop to get him help. Better to find out sooner than later.
I think a lot of people are reluctant to see what's in front of them. I just didn't know that it was anything more than him being him.
but, hopefully everything will work out and it'll be okay.
I changed the way I correct him by watching someone interact with their autistic child at Target.
I've come to realize that there are things he can and things he can't control. Trying to punish him for things he can't control just ticks him off and doesn't get us anywhere.
It's been hard. people look at you like you're crazy and I don't feel like I should explain what is going on when you're out in public.
I have a whole new outlook on children when they're misbehaving, as one old lady told me in a store that children need their behinds spanked more (when mine was acting up). I told her I agree but instead of getting upset with her I told her that sometimes things aren't always as they appear. She seemed shocked.
But it's a process and I'm just trying to get by. Usually we try to leave the stimulation that's causing the "overload" but you can't do that when you're paying for groceries.
I think a lot of people are reluctant to see what's in front of them. I just didn't know that it was anything more than him being him.
but, hopefully everything will work out and it'll be okay.
I changed the way I correct him by watching someone interact with their autistic child at Target.
I've come to realize that there are things he can and things he can't control. Trying to punish him for things he can't control just ticks him off and doesn't get us anywhere.
It's been hard. people look at you like you're crazy and I don't feel like I should explain what is going on when you're out in public.
I have a whole new outlook on children when they're misbehaving, as one old lady told me in a store that children need their behinds spanked more (when mine was acting up). I told her I agree but instead of getting upset with her I told her that sometimes things aren't always as they appear. She seemed shocked.
But it's a process and I'm just trying to get by. Usually we try to leave the stimulation that's causing the "overload" but you can't do that when you're paying for groceries.
