Daughter "Back" With Abusive Ex... Demanding Child

[ChickPea]

My daughter's been on a bender.

It's been a couple months now where things have been sketchy.

Last weekend she was supposed to come for our weekly family dinner and called ahead to tell me she needed to talk to me. I assumed she was pregnant. I didn't want the drama, but she refused to talk over the phone. She got here, stepped outside and told me she wanted to take the baby tonight. To top it off, she just happened to have her (abusive boyfriend/alleged dad) out in the car waiting. She wanted to take the baby to his house for the night.

She's never had him overnight, never. He's been here since birth, every single day. She has refused the ex-boyfriend any private/unsupervised visits up until now because he's been emotionally/physically/sexually abusive to her in the past.

I said no, no and nope. So she called the police on us.
They came.
They refused to take the baby from where he was, and said she would need to work this out with the court.

She said that the EX wanted her to go down and change the baby's name, put him on the birth certificate, but she didn't (not sure if she's lying or not, but time will tell).

This entire week she's been distant, elusive, answering texts when she wants to, hasn't seen the baby, basically could care less about her family and claims she just wants to see her son. She doesn't have any interest in anyone who could possibly tell her how incredibly damaging some of the choices she's making right now are.

She's spiraling HARD. She really has been for years, but it goes up and down in severity. The baby is almost one and she's not employed (or just got another job), homeless (couch surfing), now back messing around with the person she's been trying so hard to get away from! She said he is selling pills and weed. Probably supplying her with that.

I'm trying not to live on pins and needles, but it's almost impossible. There's not really a solution right now, just keep doing what we are doing and wait for one of them to file something through court, I guess (according to every "professional" I've talked to). Just needed to vent a little.

 

[WiseChoices]

Chickpea, I am so sorry you are going through this. I would have felt so wrecked and scared by all that.

I commend you for staying calm and saying no. The police sided with you, and the baby remained safe.

If your daughter is indeed using and spiraling , I doubt she will have the wherewithal to file court documents. And even if she did, she does not have a history of stability. I doubt the guardianship situation would change .

It sounds to me that the ex who claims to be the Dad is egging her on. I think that because she did not seem to have a real interest in seeing the baby prior to the event.

Sending much love and prayers!

 

[BusynMember1]

So sad. Can you get legal guardianship?

 

[Copabanana]

I said no, no and nope. So she called the police on us.
They came.
They refused to take the baby from where he was, and said she would need to work this out with the court.

Good.

wait for one of them to file something through court, I guess (according to every "professional" I've talked to).

I don't understand what this means. Is it that you can only go further to solidify legal rights if the parent pushes in court?

ChickPea. I think you've gone above and beyond to maintain a loving and supportive relationship with your daughter, and to support her to become a functional parent. She has thwarted you at every turn. She has acted to disrupt and to destabilize your home, your psyche, and has been indifferent to how her actions and her machinations threaten her child and/or potentially subject him to harm.

I recognize that you are mother to one and mother-substitute/grandmother to another, and that you are trying to juggle these roles, to the welfare of both, while keeping your head above water and your family safe. To me, it seems that your interests, and your grandson's would be served by distance from your daughter. It can be argued, too, that distance from both of you benefits your daughter, too.

I struggle with this all of the time. Does my support of my son when he acts badly really help him? Or am I feeding his negative traits and bad behaviors?

All of us here are not there with you and do not suffer the consequences. But it seems to me that a stronger boundary makes most sense now. The re-appearance of this dangerous, controlling, criminally-behaving man adds another frightening dimension. This is on top of your daughter's behavior which is impulsive, capricious, uncaring, out of control and selfish. The very thought that she could accede to this man's aims is chilling to the max.

I agree with Wise that this man may be egging her on. For what? To get custody of the child, so as to get welfare money? To get control over your daughter, through the baby? This is scary. Both that he could be so evil, and she so malleable and indifferent to her own interests and those of her baby.

I am very sorry this continues so hard. You are doing anything and everything that a loving parent and grandparent could do. All I can say is to think about upping the ante, so that you and the baby would be safe, by limiting even more so, access by your daughter.

 

[New Leaf]

Hi ChickPea,
CD is switching servers so I can’t see your postings to get the back story to refresh my memory.
I am so sorry for your troubles. God bless you for providing your grand baby with a safe and loving home. It is hard. I know. My three grands went through our “revolving” door for many years. My daughter had custody along with their abusive father. We had the kids through CPS some ten years ago, their parents fulfilled their required classes and the kids went back. They slipped between the cracks of an overburdened system for ten years, while their parents violence and drug use escalated.
Sounds like you have legal guardianship for your grandson. That’s extremely important. I agree with Copa under the circumstances that less contact is best for now, especially since your daughter is back with abusive ex and spiraling. My grands eventually became nothing more than cash cows for the food stamp money. I have them in my care now as teens and the affect of living crazy, unpredictable lives is a heavy burden for them. I grieve the lifestyle and choices of their mother, but my focus is on them, they are children and their parents are adults who will do as they please.
I pray that you will find peace and that your grandsons parents will recognize that the love and stability you are providing him is the best thing. It’s not to say that your daughter cannot and will not change, but until she does, that precious child deserves a chance at a normal life.
I have had to study a lot on healing for traumatized children, the inhibited brain growth and developmental delays caused by living in fear and constant high alert for the next episode. I wish that I could have hung on to my grands 10 years ago. Hopefully your daughter will have enough love and empathy for her son to see that you are giving him a chance to grow in a peaceful environment. Hang in there and know you did the right thing saying no.
Prayers going up and
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[ChickPea]

If your daughter is indeed using and spiraling , I doubt she will have the wherewithal to file court documents. And even if she did, she does not have a history of stability. I doubt the guardianship situation would change .

It sounds to me that the ex who claims to be the Dad is egging her on. I think that because she did not seem to have a real interest in seeing the baby prior to the event.

Sending much love and prayers!

Thanks, Wise. Yes, he is completely egging her on. He called my husband after and had some choice words for him. He hasn't seen him now for 3 months.

So sad. Can you get legal guardianship?

We do have legal guardianship. Everyone I've spoken to (legal council) is very relieved to hear that.

ChickPea. I think you've gone above and beyond to maintain a loving and supportive relationship with your daughter, and to support her to become a functional parent. She has thwarted you at every turn. She has acted to disrupt and to destabilize your home, your psyche, and has been indifferent to how her actions and her machinations threaten her child and/or potentially subject him to harm.

...It can be argued, too, that distance from both of you benefits your daughter, too.

...I agree with Wise that this man may be egging her on. For what? To get custody of the child, so as to get welfare money? To get control over your daughter, through the baby? This is scary. Both that he could be so evil, and she so malleable and indifferent to her own interests and those of her baby.

From what I understand from the contacts I've made, we can't really do anything more right now than what we are doing (short of trying to get them to terminate rights).

You definitely have points about our relationship and needing to create space - for all of us. We have reached that area. If I were on the outside, I would say the same thing. She is absolutely indifferent right now. She has not seen her son for a week. She does not attest to NOT seeing the EX. She confirms she knows it is not good for her or the baby for her to be with him, but she thinks it might be OK for her to just be. (Delusional.)

 

[ChickPea]

Hi ChickPea,
CD is switching servers so I can’t see your postings to get the back story to refresh my memory.
I am so sorry for your troubles. God bless you for providing your grand baby with a safe and loving home. It is hard. I know. My three grands went through our “revolving” door for many years. My daughter had custody along with their abusive father. We had the kids through CPS some ten years ago, their parents fulfilled their required classes and the kids went back. They slipped between the cracks of an overburdened system for ten years, while their parents violence and drug use escalated.
Sounds like you have legal guardianship for your grandson. That’s extremely important. I agree with Copa under the circumstances that less contact is best for now, especially since your daughter is back with abusive ex and spiraling. My grands eventually became nothing more than cash cows for the food stamp money. I have them in my care now as teens and the affect of living crazy, unpredictable lives is a heavy burden for them. I grieve the lifestyle and choices of their mother, but my focus is on them, they are children and their parents are adults who will do as they please.
I pray that you will find peace and that your grandsons parents will recognize that the love and stability you are providing him is the best thing. It’s not to say that your daughter cannot and will not change, but until she does, that precious child deserves a chance at a normal life.
I have had to study a lot on healing for traumatized children, the inhibited brain growth and developmental delays caused by living in fear and constant high alert for the next episode. I wish that I could have hung on to my grands 10 years ago. Hopefully your daughter will have enough love and empathy for her son to see that you are giving him a chance to grow in a peaceful environment. Hang in there and know you did the right thing saying no.
Prayers going up and
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

I read this (along with the other responses) to my husband. I need to constantly remind myself of these things. My mom tells me that each day we have him is one more day that his brain and emotions are developing and he is in a safe place. She is very encouraging. I'm so sorry for what you are seeing in your grands as far as the trauma goes. Those fears ride around in the back of my heart. I will never say we are perfect; we're doing the best we can and he is thriving. We are very pleased with that.

Thanks again, all. We are somewhat isolated in what we are going through, so the feedback is very much appreciated. We started counseling last week and have 5 more "free sessions" before the end of the year. I'm so glad we are going, and taking baby steps with our new normal.

 

[Blindsided]

I read this (along with the other responses) to my husband. I need to constantly remind myself of these things. My mom tells me that each day we have him is one more day that his brain and emotions are developing and he is in a safe place. She is very encouraging. I'm so sorry for what you are seeing in your grands as far as the trauma goes. Those fears ride around in the back of my heart. I will never say we are perfect; we're doing the best we can and he is thriving. We are very pleased with that.

Thanks again, all. We are somewhat isolated in what we are going through, so the feedback is very much appreciated. We started counseling last week and have 5 more "free sessions" before the end of the year. I'm so glad we are going, and taking baby steps with our new normal.

Great responses from everyone. Counseling is a great choice. Just wondering, are there expectations from your daughter? If she was in a good space at a moving forward pace, she would not want the "boyfriend/bio-dad" around her child. She would be grateful for any time spent with her baby. As someone looking in, maybe she needs to behave with gratitude and respect as part of getting to see her child. She sounds like a younger version of my daughter as far as abuse, entitlement, addiction, and lack of empathy, and one thing I am grateful for is that she did not have children. Such a tough situation for you. Distance may be in order. I am so sorry.

“You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.”

― Jon Kabat-Zinn

Love and light

 

[ChickPea]

Great responses from everyone. Counseling is a great choice. Just wondering, are there expectations from your daughter? If she was in a good space at a moving forward pace, she would not want the "boyfriend/bio-dad" around her child. She would be grateful for any time spent with her baby. As someone looking in, maybe she needs to behave with gratitude and respect as part of getting to see her child. She sounds like a younger version of my daughter as far as abuse, entitlement, addiction, and lack of empathy, and one thing I am grateful for is that she did not have children. Such a tough situation for you. Distance may be in order. I am so sorry.

“You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.”

― Jon Kabat-Zinn

Love and light

Thanks for your reply.
Our expectations are that we will not be cursed at and yelled at in our home (or on the phone) anymore. I won't tolerate that verbal abuse any more... That her visits will be calm and focused on her child.

After what happened with the cops being called on us, my husband said that in order for her to come back in our home (to see him), we need to talk prior to - without baby and in person. I guess if she wants differently at this point, she will have to go through the courts. I hate to have it go that way, but it's what we feel is best to preserve a calm(er) environment for the baby.

At this point she hasn't made any amends or any real changes. Today her "threat" is to sign off her rights. She just goes back and forth. The trust level is very low on both sides, I guess. She wants to continue her negative, risky behaviors while we provide for her son and she pops in every now and then.

From the outside it really looks like she is choosing addiction/chaos/irresponsibility over the hope of being a stable parent for her child, at least right now.

 

[BusynMember1]

If you don't have legal rights to the baby, if it were me I would go for them. Daughter is going to endanger the baby otherwise. Safety of the baby in my opinion over pleasing your adult daughter. The police next time may not side with you if you don't have legal custody.

Also, if you want your daughter to still see the baby, maybe it's best to force her to see the baby in a public place, like a restaurant, busy park or YMCA. She is.less apt to have a fit in public and, if she does, witnesses can document her inappropriate behavior which could help you with custody. Your house is too private.

I know it's terrible to have to go against a child over her child. Our family is ready to pounce on Kay the minute she becomes homeless...we have a lawyer and a good plan in place for our grandson and informants ready to tell us when our daughter will become homeless. She and her husband have just been served with eviction but they will likely squat for a while. So this is an unpredictable situation.

We never wanted to bring Kay to court, but she and Lee are very neglectful parents and we don't want our grandson to live a homeless life in a camper parked on the streets in California. The dangerous streets of California. With violence and drugs.

Kay will hate everyone forever for this, but she is an adult. We have to get the child out of this horrible situation. We never dreamed we would ever have to do something this hard.

God bless you.

 

[New Leaf]

My thoughts are if your daughter wants to terminate her parental rights it may be the best thing for your grandson. I am dealing with the fallout of two teens and a preteen growing up in the chaos of addiction, violence and neglect. It is not pretty. Read up on ACEs (adverse childhood events) and the effect on brain growth. My 18 year old son grew up with his sisters coming and going as we tried desperately to help them. He has anxiety and ptsd from that mess. I didn’t realize at the time how much it was affecting him.
There is a chance for my grands to heal and learn to respond to situations rather than be triggered into spiraling reactionary rage. It will take some time and a lot of therapy.
You have an opportunity to prevent the damage and a lot of heartache for your grandson.
It is hard to let go and let God. We think that maybe something we can say or do will stop the madness. Truth be told, addicts lie and manipulate loved ones to make it easier for them to use drugs. They have thrown aside the values that we taught them for the next high. Partying is everything. It’s sad.
I still have hope for my two addicted using daughters. I didn’t give up on them, I gave them over to God, knowing that their issues are far more than I can handle, or fix. The more we thought we could help them, the more they used us, stole from us, took our peace of mind and turned our home into a war zone.
One would think that a precious child would motivate change, but addicted, drug using people don’t think or act from normalcy or decency. They are drugnapped. This is a horrible combination for any kind of parenting.
I am so sorry for your troubled heart. You are taking steps to set boundaries with indecent behaviors, that is a start.
I look back and am aghast at what we put up with, trying to save our two.Getting TRO’s, rearranging the house to accommodate our grands and my daughter, calling CPS, it was a crazy time. That cycled on for years, my husband became ill and was hospitalized several times, that did not stop their using. He passed, that did not stop their using. I kept waiting for a wake up call, they are still using.
My daughter has popped in twice now, after not seeing her kids for two years. She is cavalier and chatty, acts as if nothing has happened. I cringe because I know it is hurtful for her kids.
Meanwhile, we are all dealing with years of pent up trauma bursting out of them at the slightest trigger.
It is reliving the nightmare of their parents choices all over again.
Take steps to protect your grandson from this madness.
It will mean a world of difference for his growth and a chance at a normal, decent life.
Much love to you.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[Copabanana]

My quote thing isn't working. This that New Leaf wrote above is the most succinct and complete expression of what it has been like for me these years with my son, trying to prevail upon him to become a socialized, functioning and productive adult.

We think that maybe something we can say or do will stop the madness. Truth be told, addicts lie and manipulate loved ones to make it easier for them to use drugs. They have thrown aside the values that we taught them for the next high. Partying is everything. It’s sad.

I still have hope for my two addicted using daughters. I didn’t give up on them, I gave them over to God, knowing that their issues are far more than I can handle, or fix. The more we thought we could help them, the more they used us, stole from us, took our peace of mind and turned our home into a war zone.

 

[BusynMember1]

Amen.

We can't fix anyone. Just us. Nobody else.

 

[elizabrary]

Hi Chickpea- Not much to add except this could have been my post 10 years ago. So I'm sorry. I know how difficult this is and how horrifically stressful. You are doing all the right things, and so glad you said NO to your daughter and held your ground. Your grandchild is incredibly lucky to have you. I would also mention that I hope you are documenting all the interactions you are having with your daughter, as well as money you spend on your grand. This could be very useful if she ever tries to get custody when she shouldn't have it. Sending peace to you.

 

[ChickPea]

If you don't have legal rights to the baby, if it were me I would go for them. Daughter is going to endanger the baby otherwise. Safety of the baby in my opinion over pleasing your adult daughter. The police next time may not side with you if you don't have legal custody.

Also, if you want your daughter to still see the baby, maybe it's best to force her to see the baby in a public place, like a restaurant, busy park or YMCA. She is.less apt to have a fit in public and, if she does, witnesses can document her inappropriate behavior which could help you with custody. Your house is too private.

I know it's terrible to have to go against a child over her child.
God bless you.

We have legal rights/guardianship and custody/control. I am SO thankful that we have that. Saving grace.

We've met her at public places, but not for the reasons you stated. Very good point! Getting colder out, so it's a little harder, but I agree with this. Thank you for the suggestion. Sometimes in chaos your mind doesn't think of the duh-logical stuff.

My thoughts are if your daughter wants to terminate her parental rights it may be the best thing for your grandson. I am dealing with the fallout of two teens and a preteen growing up in the chaos of addiction, violence and neglect. It is not pretty. Read up on ACEs (adverse childhood events) and the effect on brain growth. My 18 year old son grew up with his sisters coming and going as we tried desperately to help them. He has anxiety and ptsd from that mess. I didn’t realize at the time how much it was affecting him.
There is a chance for my grands to heal and learn to respond to situations rather than be triggered into spiraling reactionary rage. It will take some time and a lot of therapy.
You have an opportunity to prevent the damage and a lot of heartache for your grandson.
It is hard to let go and let God. We think that maybe something we can say or do will stop the madness. Truth be told, addicts lie and manipulate loved ones to make it easier for them to use drugs. They have thrown aside the values that we taught them for the next high. Partying is everything. It’s sad.
I still have hope for my two addicted using daughters. I didn’t give up on them, I gave them over to God, knowing that their issues are far more than I can handle, or fix. The more we thought we could help them, the more they used us, stole from us, took our peace of mind and turned our home into a war zone.
One would think that a precious child would motivate change, but addicted, drug using people don’t think or act from normalcy or decency. They are drugnapped. This is a horrible combination for any kind of parenting.
I am so sorry for your troubled heart. You are taking steps to set boundaries with indecent behaviors, that is a start.
I look back and am aghast at what we put up with, trying to save our two.Getting TRO’s, rearranging the house to accommodate our grands and my daughter, calling CPS, it was a crazy time. That cycled on for years, my husband became ill and was hospitalized several times, that did not stop their using. He passed, that did not stop their using. I kept waiting for a wake up call, they are still using.
My daughter has popped in twice now, after not seeing her kids for two years. She is cavalier and chatty, acts as if nothing has happened. I cringe because I know it is hurtful for her kids.
Meanwhile, we are all dealing with years of pent up trauma bursting out of them at the slightest trigger.
It is reliving the nightmare of their parents choices all over again.
Take steps to protect your grandson from this madness.
It will mean a world of difference for his growth and a chance at a normal, decent life.
Much love to you.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

Jease this whole post. I read it to my husband, too. Over and over again I'm so thankful for all of you, for your stories and advice, and just being an outlet.

Totally resonates. Yesterday we met with her, talked with her (it was like talking with a glazed-over teenaged version of herself), and had her over for an hour to visit the baby - all on our own terms. Visit went well-ish. Today she calls me wanting to come over (no), and then wanting us to make her a sandwich (she's STARVING), and then not even having the time to get the sandwich because she's up to scheming something.

I CAN NOT fix her. I can extend branches here and there, but I can't make the horse drink the water. I literally refuse and can not fathom the thought of running this same hamster wheel when this precious kid is six. I can't. Please. Lord give me strength and guidance!

On top of it all, my husband's father was diagnosed with cancer. Blessing and a curse, but our focus needs to - and is - changing.

 

[ChickPea]

Hi Chickpea- Not much to add except this could have been my post 10 years ago. So I'm sorry. I know how difficult this is and how horrifically stressful. You are doing all the right things, and so glad you said NO to your daughter and held your ground. Your grandchild is incredibly lucky to have you. I would also mention that I hope you are documenting all the interactions you are having with your daughter, as well as money you spend on your grand. This could be very useful if she ever tries to get custody when she shouldn't have it. Sending peace to you.

We are documenting (husband is). Part of me writing here, too, is to help me remember. I'm not as good at documenting, honestly. But my husband has taken that task on and I am grateful. Between the two of us we should have enough.

I haven't been doing the expenses, though I probably should.

 

[Crayola13]

The judge will undoubtedly side with you. Thank heavens. This isn't what you planned on doing with your life at this point, but that child sure is fortunate to have you. I'm very relieved you've been there for that precious kid. The generation gap is going to show up so badly when the teen years come. It's expensive. It's exhausting. When you feel like you can't be strong, there are others here who can be strong for you.

 

[New Leaf]

Please. Lord give me strength and guidance!

On top of it all, my husband's father was diagnosed with cancer. Blessing and a curse, but our focus needs to - and is - changing.

Oh dear, when it rains, it pours. Us, too, while going though the crazy years, all sorts of stuff including aging parents and illness. It’s tough when we are being pulled in all different directions.
I hope, ChickPea you and hubs can get some quality moments for yourselves.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[Copabanana]

Dear Chick Pea

I am very sorry that your father in law was diagnosed with cancer. I hope that he responds to treatment and returns to health.

 

[RN0441]

Chick Pea
I'm so sorry you are going through all of this.
You have heard from the experts.
Prayers and hugs to you.