Developments

[AnonymousMe]

So...I'm not really new and in a few more words you'll know who I really am...but I am using a different user name since my son has snooped and I figure if I post under a different name - should he snoop again - he won't see the name or avatar and therefore likely won't read. This is Lil. If he does read...so be it. (Hi son!) I'm not saying anything untrue, just seems a little more freeing to make his reading less likely.

So...developments. I posted on another thread that son and I had a MAJOR fight on Saturday when he was going to no-call/no-show at work, I guess I nagged a bit, then actually tried to just leave it be and have him get ready...which he wouldn't do, he kept screaming at me, etc., and finally he head-butted the door and put a hole in it - the door that he broke over and over and we finally replaced when he was gone - at which point I just lost it completely myself - which ended with me screaming at him that I wanted him OUT of my house. He threatened to jump out the window (which probably wouldn't kill anyone, but might put you in a hospital), I threatened the psychiatric ward, he threatened to chew thru his wrists...and Jabber broke it up. Thank God.

Bottom line, we set a deadline. I told him he needed to be out in 4 weeks - or the end of October at the very latest. He had $900...that was plenty of time for him for him to get his electric bill he owes paid off and still have more than enough for deposits. We actually gave him $50 of his money to just leave and disappear for a day or two and then Jabber fed me, calmed me down, and we took money we've been squirreling away since January and went to a [place for grown-ups to pay games - apparently the C word is banned] (where I came home $27 richer...that's a lot when you don't bet over $5 a hand).

Two days later son asks me for his $850. A guy he knows (he lived with him once before when they were both renting rooms from the same person) is also looking to move to a place of his own (with girlfriend and toddler) and they found a trailer for $400/mo. Okay - if my son only pays 1/2 that's $200. If he pays 1/3, that's $133. Of course, it's 3 1/5 miles from where my son works and he'll be dependent on the roommate for rides when the bus doesn't run, every evening and weekend...I foresee all kinds of problems there. I found a nice one-bedroom 1 mile from his work for $325 a month - but he wouldn't even consider it. I mentioned there were 2 bedroom apartments in the same area - walking distance to work - for around $400, but no...the trailer is "better". Okay then. What's done is done. He's all grown up and 21 and I can't tell him what to do.

The mom and the lawyer in me just KNOW this is not the best alternative. I see him losing his job - which in 2 1/2 months he's gone from loving to hating anyway - because of problems with rides. I see the roommates not paying their share and son not being able to pay it all himself. Roommates, especially ones you don't know well, are asking for problems - but son won't even consider a single. I don't know why he's so terrified of living alone, but he hates the very thought of it. He's an ONLY CHILD. Jabber and I didn't coddle him and keep him under our wings constantly. All he does is hide in his room when he's home - you'd think he'd be USED to the idea of living alone! So...I haven't actually seen him, but he says (via text) papers are signed and money paid. This is happening, he's sharing a mobile home with A and his girl and baby.

I'm trying, I really am, to not stick my nose in it. The lawyer in me is in full-on panic mode. "You have an agreement to live with someone you barely know and nothing in writing? Who's on the lease? What utilities are there? Who's paying the bills? How are you splitting them? Are you paying 1/2 when there's two of them + toddler? What remedy do you have if they just don't pay? How are you organizing food storage? Are you sharing or buying your own?" And on and on and on...keeping my mouth shut is going to be rough!

Moving out was (past) due. I expected he'd be out in about 10 weeks...that was what we said when he moved in...and it's been 9 weeks...so he should be. He's not really lived up to what we agreed to. He was supposed to keep his room clean and dishes done (he won't use soap! - we end up re-washing). He was supposed to help out around the house (he's taken the trash out 2-3 times). He was supposed to pay his bills (student loan and electric in collection) and see his therapist. The ONLY thing he's done was to give us $100/wk to hold for him. I was still giving him rides. He wasn't budgeting his other $100/wk, he was blowing it in 2-3 days and then broke. He didn't get his own food. He didn't get his own soda. Heck, I'd loan him $ for smokes - which he paid back occasionally. He was too comfortable. I want him happy. I want him independent. But he needs to live elsewhere. While he's in my home he's MY KID. His job is my business. Whether he goes to work or not is MY business! HIS life is MY business. Needless to say, he does NOT like that!

But I can't stop obsessing with all that could go wrong with this. I hope it doesn't - help me stop worrying!

Incidentally - he still has his job. He was given a no-call/no-show (though he called, because they called him first) but apparently they give you one or two of them before they fire you. Nice job. Most give you exactly none! I asked what the policy was on that. He didn't know.

 

[GoingNorth]

Yikes. You need to quit giving him move-out dates and little bits of this and that, and just pitch his scrawny rear end OUT!

He's playing you, plain and simple. If he can't hold onto his money, if he winds up being done over by an ill-chosen roommate deal, that's on him, not on you.

His fear of living alone? HE needs to deal with that. He's a grown up now. You need to NOT be there for him if things don't work out.

He needs to figure things out on his own. If he can't? There are shelters; even if he has to travel to find one. At least he won't be alone there.

 

[Snow White]

You've gone above and beyond. You've set dates/boundaries and found alternative places for him to live yet nothing moves forward.

It's time to have your son leave your house. He tells you he has "friends" - he can stay with them or as GoingNorth suggested, there are shelters where he won't be alone. It sounds like he is risk of losing his job. Maybe the realization that he needs a steady income stream in order to have a place to sleep and food to eat will keep him at his job. If he stays at home, he will see no reason to keep the job because you are continuing to pay for him.

Stay strong.

 

[AnonymousMe]

I don't think I was clear.

He's definitely moving out. This is good! I'm glad. It's time. He was only back home because the place he was living had a fire in the next-door apartment and they condemned the building basically, so he was without a place to live. He'd quit his job two days before the fire. So we let him come back in order to save up the necessary deposits for a new place to live. We'd expected 8 to 12 weeks. One condition (of many) was that he keep a job and give us 1/2 his check of $100 per week. He's done that.

I guess, I just didn't expect he'd move so far from work. I didn't expect it to be so abrupt. So...yeah. He IS moving out. He's paid the deposits and rent apparently. The exact date for some reason still seems to be up in the air, but it's happening. My worry is that he'll get screwed over by taking a place so far from work or by the people he's moving with.

~Lil

 

[Snow White]

I don't think I was clear.

I guess, I just didn't expect he'd move so far from work. I didn't expect it to be so abrupt. So...yeah. He IS moving out. He's paid the deposits and rent apparently. The exact date for some reason still seems to be up in the air, but it's happening. My worry is that he'll get screwed over by taking a place so far from work or by the people he's moving with.

~Lil

OK - I misread that but at the same time, when he moves out, if he gets screwed over by the distance from work (no ride) or the people he's going to live with, then what is the plan? Will he assume he can come back home? Is the lease in his name, too?

 

[GoingNorth]

I misread that as well, but moving that far from work when transportation has already been an issue is just foolish, and I doubt he's going to even think of drawing up some sort of legal contract with his roommate(s).

I don't know why the exact date would be up in the air, unless its a situation like with my apartment where between the time I first looked at it, and when the then current tenants were finally evicted, they did a lot of damage that had to be repaired.

In my case, I was given a couple of move-in dates that had to be pushed out because the work hadn't been completed. Then, once the work was completed, I had to inspect the apartment and found a few other things that had to be corrected, which took another few days. So, all in all, it took about 6 weeks for my apartment to be ready to move into and I didn't know at the beginning when I'd be able to move in. Luckily, I had friends to stay with.

This is also a large complex owned by a huge real-estate company with complexes in 4 states. I assume, with your son's background and history, that he is moving into a smaller community, or a single property, such as a 4 or 8-flat.

I hope it works out for him. You've done enough. What concerns me is that he still doesn't seem able to manage money very well, and he doesn't seem to have much of a work ethic.

And this "fear of living alone" thing, which I think is a very real fear, needs to be explored in therapy and dealt with.

 

[AnonymousMe]

What concerns me is that he still doesn't seem able to manage money very well, and he doesn't seem to have much of a work ethic.

Yes, those are also my concerns. I want him out on his own...but I want him to do it the right way. Then again, if our kid's did things the "right way" I guess none of us would be here.

I don't know, because he hasn't said, why the "move date" is up in the air. A lot of places around here are rather informal and will say, "Well, you guys can just have the last week of September, so move in whenever." But perhaps he doesn't know when A and his girlfriend wants to move, or maybe A is putting the utilities in his name and needs time to get them on, or maybe they need to buy some things first...they don't own any furniture, etc. because they've been renting a bedroom, if I understand it right. Could be anything...

I'll try to pin him down more on things...or rather, I want to try to pin him down more...but I don't want to overstep or meddle or nag. I tend to. I know I do. But I want to know what's going on.

I know I did my mother/lawyerly duty by warning him in advance. I'm driving myself crazy worrying about things.

 

[GoingNorth]

I wouldn't try to pin him down at all. Stay as uninvolved as possible. Again, he's a grownup. Let him make his own mistakes and suffer the consequences of those mistakes...by himself.

It may interest you to know that I hadn't lived on my own (not counting several LONG deployments and a year and a half at war and then as a peacekeeper) until husband died.

I moved out of my family's home and into an apt with him. Now, I prefer living alone, and the idea of living with someone else makes me gag. The idea of living with a stranger scares the heck out of me.

Back on topic, I really do think your son is one who can only learn the hard way, and the only way that is going to happen is if you let it happen.

Frankly, I'd be more worried about whether he's' registered to vote, than what he's doing about his lease. The former shows being able to think outside of himself and about others. (Not just those who provide companionship so he's not alone).

He strikes me as very self-centered.

 

[GoingNorth]

What I say about learning. I lived in Germany for 8 years and rented an apartment there. The Army made sure that husband and I knew all we needed to about leasing laws, etc. Their attorney even reviewed our lease before husband was allowed to sign it.

When we came back stateside, we rented an apartment in Chicago and got royally screwed over by our landlord. We then bought a house, which I lost 9 years later to medical bills and bankruptcy after husband died. I moved up North and bought a mobile home, which I lived in for 11 years.

Having learned my lesson, I downloaded Milwaukee County's and surrounding town's tenant/landlord and leasing laws before even starting to look for an apartment, and studied them. By the time I actually started my apartment hunt, I was pretty well versed in tenant/landlord rights and responsibilities, as well as the various suburbs' laws that impacted renters and homeowners both.

It made a huge difference.

Now, I don't see your son doing that, but if he has access to a computer, I can see suggesting he Google leasing laws for the community and county he will be living in.

As it turns out, the complex I live in, has a pamphlet that includes the county and city laws that they give to anyone who stops by the office looking for an apartment and to anyone who asks. As part of the leasing process, you have to sign off that you have read and understand the rules.

I doubt that a complex that will rent an apartment to 2 or more menially employed barely adult males is going to provide those services, nor be willing to work with them if problems arise. My suggestion, if the landlord has direct deposit, is that they set up a special checking account for the rent, deposit into it, and have the rent $$$ automatically transferred to the landlord's bank account a few days before the due date.

The mgmt co here offers that service, but it is more aimed at late payments or last minute payments and they charge a 25 dollar fee for using it. Otherwise, I'd sign up.

 

[AnonymousMe]

Frankly, I'd be more worried about whether he's' registered to vote, than what he's doing about his lease.

Oh God no - of course he's not! He only registered for the draft when he was 18 because he had to.

Now, I don't see your son doing that, but if he has access to a computer, I can see suggesting he Google leasing laws for the community and county he will be living in.

He's going to be about 4 miles from my house. And his mom is a lawyer who has been a landlord. He doesn't have to google - he just has to ask.

It's really pretty straightforward around here. If you have a lease, do what the lease says. If you're a tenant pay as directed. If something breaks, call the landlord. If he won't fix it...hopefully you have a handy friend, because it's most likely not worth suing for.

My suggestion, if the landlord has direct deposit, is that they set up a special checking account for the rent, deposit into it, and have the rent $$$ automatically transferred to the landlord's bank account a few days before the due date.

That's not a bad idea. I doubt very much though, that there is any such direct deposit available. Most landlords around here (the ones that rent to low-income folks) come by and get cash once a month, or you can call them and they'll come and pick it up. But they DO need to set aside $50 each, per week, (or $33/$66 depending on the split) and literally put that in a jar and not touch it and hand it over every month.

I agree with one thing...I need to stay out of it. I hate that because I want to know...but I need to stay out of it.

 

[AppleCori]

Our young man has made some bad housing decisions, too. He is now in the best situation since he has been away from home, living with a guy and the guy's girlfriend in a small two bedroom apartment.

At one point, he lived in an unfinished basement that he rented from a friend who was renting the house above. The friend and girlfriend and their two preschoolers. D C had access to the kitchen and bathroom. When the landlords found out he was staying in the basement, they said he had to move into the house or move out because of code violations.
He chose to leave because he said the basement was actually better than the house. It smelled so bad he could barely tolerate being in it. Not sure why, but he did manage to find a new situation, which is much better.

I don't know why these kids of ours have to learn the hard way, but they do!

 

[Kalahou]

Anonymous Lil- …

I'm trying, I really am, to not stick my nose in it. The lawyer in me is in full-on panic mode ...keeping my mouth shut is going to be rough! ... While he's in my home he's MY KID. His job is my business. ... HIS life is MY business. ... I can't stop obsessing with all that could go wrong with this. ...- help me stop worrying!

I have been following many of your posts over the last year. You have been holding on and trying to repeatedly fix and plan and help, while at the same time always hating it and wishing things were different and progressing better, and having hopeful dreams that all would resolve according to your best laid plans and intentions.

I know this difficult son situation is hard for you. It is hard for your son also to have you in panic / obsessing mode. Your son is still relatively so young (even though an adult). I believe he is your only child also, is that right? He has been your focus for so long. You have sacrificed much of your life, your time, efforts, thoughts and resources on him. Certainly you, as a very competent, efficient, skilled technical and professional person, have your own standards for the responsibilities in your own personal and professional life. I’m sure in your own “normal” adult circles; you take action to ensure things happen more or less the way you want and plan for them to happen. That’s how most responsible folks function, and it usually works. But you just can’t make it happen for anyone else, no matter how much you want it so badly, and no matter how much and how long you try.

I agree with one thing...I need to stay out of it. I hate that because I want to know...but I need to stay out of it.

Yes. You do need to stay out of it. in my opinion you need to really try to let go (both for yourself, but especially for your son.) You do need to back off, but … you don’t want to -- (You said “I hate that … I want to know”) Yes, you keep thinking of what YOU want. – I’ve seen over the months of your posts how you want to fix – you want to make better - you want to plan for him, you want your dreams for him to happen the way you would like to see it. You try to make it happen (e.g. the convenient apartment, furnishings and food for prior apartment, the ease in transportation – giving rides /wanting him to be close to transportation now/ wanting him to have a responsible budget / good responsible roommates / comfort food, etc.).

I wouldn't try to pin him down at all. Stay as uninvolved as possible. Again, he's a grownup. Let him make his own mistakes and suffer the consequences of those mistakes...by himself.

in my opinion, it’s time now for you to slow down your obsession with your son. Time to try something new. I know this is hard –It has been going on so long that it seems an automatic established pattern of panicky / anxious reaction for you to want to fix, to make better, to continue the attachment and enabling / to keep taking him back into your home as a safety net, when he or you thinks he can’t make it or figure it out on his own. -- (Of course he will not figure it out on his own if he is always rescued.)

It’s time to Let go of the part of you that wants some control, that wants to know and try to figure things out for him the way you think would be best if you were doing it for you. Now at this time, it appears he wants to try it again on his own. It’s OK. Try to be calm about it. He can sense your uncertainty and fear and hesitancy and critical disapproval.

If you can’t change what you see, then change how to see it. Make a forceful effort to relax and freely and gladly give him the gift and freedom to spread his wings. Let him have this opportunity. Advise him that you are going to let go and he is going to have this freedom and release. Advise him that you are confident he can figure out and take care of the needs in his life. Advise him of Social Services options, if he really ends up again unable to care for himself. Tell him you can stay in touch now and then.

I think when the kids try and can make it on their own themselves, only then will they become more confident, become their own heroes. They can learn to save themselves and find their own self-respect. In another thread one time @scent of cedar related this image:

We need to push them from the nest. Believe they can fly, and push them from the nest. They will flounder. Then they will fly.
The kids are scared, too. Like the fledglings are when they leave the nest. But here is the thing. If the mother bird did not push her fledgling to fly, the fledgling's body would grow so heavy, but the muscles in his wings would not have developed. Soon, he will be a flightless bird through no one's fault, really.

But he will be a worthless thing to himself, nonetheless. Birds are meant to fly. How can they respect themselves when the other fledglings fly with strength and grace and beauty and their wings are tiny, useless things?

That is why they come almost to hate us, in their anger and their shame at their tiny, useless wings.​

It helped me to see it this way. I hope I am not sounding too harsh. All of this is stuff I am learning and growing with also. Detachment and stopping the enabling is really loving and courageous - to let them go and also to let the part of us go that wants to keep holding on in fear and love (both for them and for us). I know it is very hard.

Take care, dear. Sorry if I just rambled on and on. I’m glad you are still with us, even though anonymous now. You are surely going to be alright and so is your son. Trust the process. Take heart and take care. Breathe ~~ and give thanks. You are going to be alright ~ Kalahou

 

[GoingNorth]

Ugh. When husband and I first moved in together, husband got a boiler license and would up managing the ancient, 48 unit courtyard building we lived in.

He used to have to go round and collect the rent. Got a gun pulled on him a couple of times. Also came down in the middle of the night to fire the boilers a few times, and found homeless people who had frozen to death overnight after crawling into the sub-basements in hope of some sort of shelter.

Yeah, I've lived in those sorts of places as well. Builds character...yep.that's it.

 

[RN0441]

So glad you are back.

You have to break your habits that aren't helping either of you.

Trust me, I am in a horrible situation myself right now with our son, but as Kalahou said, I am trying to change how I see it. My son has to suffer in order to change and I am watching from a distance and it's as hard as hell. I wake up in the middle of the night wondering if we're doing the right thing and he won't hate us forever. But I hope in the end it will be a learning experience for him and it will help him find his path.

I have not been able to point him in the right direction and I've put everything I have into it. My son has a problem with addiction but otherwise, our sons are the same age and very similar in thinking/actions.

Don't obsess over it. I know it's hard but you must change how you think or it will destroy your life. This could go on for many years.

 

[AnonymousMe]

I was never really gone. Just hadn't posted much.

You know, I don't actually WANT to do things for him, I want him to make the right choices, the smart choices. And yes, those would be the ones I would make. . LOL. We put him out once...for a very good reason...And he wouldn't have been back if not for extenuating circumstances. Things weren't going terribly. But they could have been better.

At the moment, I'm past worrying. I gave him his $850 for deposits etc. He hasn't been home since.

I keep suspecting the worst. That he lost his job and isn't telling me, in fact lying. But the fact is I have no reason to think it. He went to work Tues. I took him. His uniforms are gone. So maybe he's doing exactly what he says he is. I suppose, whether he is or not, it's not my business.

I want it settled and over with. I hate the in-between. That's what I really mean by, "I want to know". I want things settled and done. That's the Really hard part for me, not being able to be settled. I like my like life stable. I can't BE stable when I don't know what's going on.

 

[mof]

I'm glad your back...I was thinking about you. I know I'm still new around here, but consider all of you a extended community.

I'm sorry you have been caused so much stress and worry. I sometimes have to remind myself...ok, all the time, that my son will never be the man I ever imagined. I have to be ok with that..me, myself and I.

Your son may never handle money well..I'm not sure ours will. I will not give him money for smokes...his habit...we feed him...but he has to treat our home with respect.

Just know, hugs are going out to you. You are obviously a very intelligent woman who had dreams for her child....now, he has to dream his own.

 

[RN0441]

Mof
Giver your son credit. He is doing well although maybe not the exact way you wish he would.

Give yourself credit too. You are showing incredible strength!

 

[mof]

RN...you are too kind..

 

[AnonymousMe]

Well that's good. He just asked me to pick him up at 9:30. So he's at work. LOL. That's one suspicion unfounded.

 

[jetsam]

their choices are theirs ,not ours. that is the hardest part. To not act from your heart and help, but to let them try their wings even though your gut tells you that,theirs is not a good choice! I have mothered my son long enough, He needs to get out . Now to just get hubby on board...