difficult child Threw Dad's Cellphone Down Garbage Disposal

[smallworld]

We have BCBS PPO as well. Our policy doesn't cover residential. It does cover inpatient and partial hosptialization (day treatment).

We are considering a residential program for our son. We are planning to take out a loan. Because our son needs the treatment, that's what we feel we must do.

I asked above whether you had looked into projective testing. I still think it would be helpful for your difficult child. We just did it for our son and got excellent information to guide our future decisions about his treatment. With projective testing, you would get good insight into what your difficult child is thinking about himself and the world around him. You would also have "data" upon which doctors could base treatment decisions.

 

[busywend]

So, this behavior existed long before the Anti-Depressant was introduced. Not to say it is not affecting him in a negative way, but it is certainly not a quick fix to remove the medications.

in my humble opinion, this kid is SCREAMING for help. All the things he has done have been signals that he is not getting what he needs. Every time he takes something or pees somewhere or hides these items - it is a cry for help!

How come psychiatrist can't see that? I would get a 2nd opinion, too.

 

[WSM]

I looked up some of the pictures used in projective testing. They are creepy and make me uneasy to look at them, which I suppose is the point. It would be fascinating what difficult child said about them.

I know lots of his therapists have had him draw pictures and narrate them or draw pictures to match a story. I suppose that's a type of projective testing.

I have suggested it. But I have no say in anything, except what **I'm** going to do. husband likes this therapist and psychiatrist, says they both lay it on the line for him and the sessions are brutal. He's seen them each twice. husband won't likely change them now, altho he says he'll give it a six month or nine month chance and if he sees no improvement let it go for now.

difficult child is very resistant to therapy. He either wins the therapist over with his wounded puppy dog act and then controls the sessions, or he sits sullen and uncooperative and just agrees with everything that's said to them, which forces the therapist (or anyone else) to just lecture longer and longer in frustration, to which difficult child says, okay.

 

[CrazyinVA]

Something struck me in your log.. and that is the number of times you say "sister's." Look back over and it and see how many times he has destroyed something that belongs to his sister. Perhaps that is where the potential fear is coming from... if I were her , I'd be pretty darn scared of him since he targeted MY things so often.

Have you showed this log to his psychiatrist?? I think that is EXTREMELY important...

 

[gcvmom]

Just a thought... even though you are not invited to the psychiatrist meetings, you could still call the office and ask about faxing your behavior log to them. You don't have to wait for another appointment to come up to communicate with them, in my opinion.

 

[WSM]

Something struck me in your log.. and that is the number of times you say "sister's."

Yes, he clearly targets his 9 yo sister and his father. Sometimes me, but not as much. I make it unpleasant, I absolutely insist there be a consequence. The other three boys are big and good natured but can be scathingly scornful. difficult child stole tootsie pops from the oldest once. Oldest then replaced them (oldest and his girlfriend just love tootsie pops) and left them lying around. They disappeared again, and oldest announced to the entire family. "Whoever stole my candy, well, the joke is on you. I unwrapped them both and twirled them around in my armpits after working out (son is a gymnast and gets very sweaty and stinky), then rewrapped them."

Next time he had tootsie pops they were left alone.

Dad also doesn't punish much. Sometimes over his stuff he goes ballistic, but it's over in two days and he's back to "I want to trust you, I'm giving you another chance" (this speech always, ALWAYS makes me anxious because it's stupid...difficult child is NOT trustworthy and it doesn't take long before difficult child does something else). EVERY weekend this happens, and we've had incidents for 4 years now. Over 200 broken incidences of trust, and yet my husband still hasn't caught on. Now that difficult child is on lexapro, husband is hoping that will make difficult child trustworthy. So he keeps giving him 'another chance'.

difficult child is only held accountable for about one fifth of what he does, and then usually only for something that has to do with his dad's stuff. When his sister's stuff disappears or is ruined, husband has a tendency to say, well, it was old, she doesn't play with it often, she probably lost it herself (which has happened, she's little), it was broken anyway...

He also yells at her for leaving her stuff out, and now she doesn't tell him what's missing. She should be able to leave her stuff out, it's her house, and she tries hard not to, but she's little. And besides, how did difficult child get ahold of husband's cellphone to put in the disposal? husband left it out.

husband says he doens't know what to do, "I'm mad at him all the time. I've been mad at him for 4 years now". He says no punishment helps (of course, not punishing doesn't help either), so what's the point of punishing him (three therapists tho have said to have a consequence even if it doesn't work. Accept that it won't change him, but have a consequence anyway). However, I say the punishment of difficult child for doing crappy things to other people makes the VICTIMS feel better even if it doesn't improve difficult child. And note when difficult child does get punished, it's usually for messing with husband's stuff.

But I think difficult child picks his victims carefully. If MY computer ends up in the pool I won't yell at difficult child, I will call the police. difficult child knows this. The older boys might seem to him unpredictable, besides in a way I think he likes them and slightly wants their approval. His sister is helpless and he knows husband is not likely to do much about her stuff disappearing, she might even be blamed even if husband knows difficult child did it. And he's jealous of her. Also he targets husband because he's so angry at husband for remarrying, for not letting difficult child control the household, for his mom, for trying to get close (difficult child has attachment disorder), etc...

Because difficult child chooses his victims, I and many people think he CAN help it.

We have locks and alarms and watch him all the time, and still stuff happens. It's a game. That's why I almost cried when I read the "I'm so sick of all the sneaking and lying and stealing" thread. That's us!

 

[hearts and roses]

I've read through this entire thread and am so surprised to see that not one person suggested you leave this household.

It would seem to me that not only are you all in danger, but you are not living in any peaceful way whatsoever at any time. You're all constantly on alert! How can you sleep at night?

It sounds as if your H is in some sort of denial about the seriousness of his son's actions. That he won't go get a second opinion from another set of docs is unreasonable to me. Perhaps he knows that he's hearing what he wants to hear from the present set of docs and he's afraid that a new set will REALLY lay it on the line and tell him his son needs to be removed from the home? Frisking him at night before bed obviously is not enough.

If your H will not take the next step to make sure the rest of the family is SAFE, then perhaps it is time for you to find somewhere else to stay, even if it's until H does what he needs to do.

Given the fact that you are not involved in the therapy or dr appts, etc., the only thing you have any control over, really, is how you react to the present conditions in your home. And for me, that would be to get out of there.

The look you describe, the horrifying actions towards your daughter, the destructive behavior, the fact that your daughter can never EVER be alone with her brother for fear that he may harm her or sexually assault her would all be good enough for me to get out.

I'm so sorry for the situation you're living. Sending hugs and support and strength.

 

[WSM]

Every year husband tries a new set of doctors. He goes for about 6-9 months, nothing gets better, the doctors eventually blame husband for not being a good enough parent, difficult child hates going and begs to stop, it seems like a waste of time and money, so they stop for 4 to 6 months. And then there's an incident or things get intolerable and husband finds a new set of doctors, and they start again, and nothing improves, and the docs get frustrated and start blaming husband and difficult child complains about going because the docs also tell him in essence to shape up and stop his games, so they stop and it's a cycle.

husband is not opposed to difficult child being removed from the home. He even doesn't mind if difficult child goes to juvenile which I really don't think is good. But who would remove him? He hasn't committed a crime since Feb 2008, so the legal system won't.

CPS either thinks he's the problem and we need to protect ourselves against him (yes they've actually told us this) or think we are so abusive they are going to take difficult child and his sister. It depends on the worker.

The school has no authority to take him, and he usually gets along with the school. He has the ability to make teachers think he's a poor little neglected boy and brings out the protective instinct in them. But usually by the end of the year they are happy to see him go. We can't afford to put him in residential treatment or even a boarding school.

His bio-mom is currently homeless, wandering the streets in psychosis, yelling at god as she goes along. His grandmother is a neurotic nut who cries everyday about someone who's been 'mean' to her for 'no reason', has no friends, is afraid to make any decisions (she's been like this all her life), is overwhelmed and dependent and needy, and who has a tube in her head to drain spinal fluid from around her brain to her stomache and she's 72 years old and poor. There's a strange uncle who belongs to a strange fundamentalist christian sect that no one has ever heard of that's quite rigid and strange and who's own son is 9 and wildly out of control and who's wife is so withdrawn she rarely speaks or makes eye contact. There's his mother's sister who is rich, rich, rich, but utterly exhausted by taking care of her psychotic sister and her two (yes, TWO) schizophrenic brothers, and is not interested in taking on any more crazy people. She skitters on the edge of alcoholism, altho it's a battle she's been winning for about 10 years--since she stopped taking calls from her siblings.

There's a grandfather he's never seen who has a 20 yo daughter who's so autistic she cannot speak and is developmentally about 18 months old and who throws wild tantrums.

There's another uncle who's pretty nice, but who never had kids and he and his wife deal with her disfunctional family, and who beleives, altho he doesn't really say so, that difficult child's problems are all because he's not getting enough attention and approval at home. If we send difficult child to him (and we've thought about it for just a summer), he'd send him back and be angry with husband. It would ruin the one good family relationship husband still has. Besides, this uncle lives down the street from nutty neurotic grandma and deals with her all the time and wouldn't understand that he must supervise granma and difficult child every single moment together and that situation would explode (grandma and difficult child together is worthy of it's own post). And there is no one else.

So how's he going to be removed from the home.

I've thought of leaving, and have a plan for immediate flight from the house and how to set up a new life on the spur of the moment if necessary without too much disruption. But my kids don't want to leave. They have a life here, love their stepfather, love their little sister, and can put up with difficult child since he doesn't target them and I shield them from most of his problems.

I've thought of leaving when the youngest leaves HS and difficult child is 16 and probably going to be worse than now and completely unmanageable (altho husband thinks difficult child will run away by then and husband says he won't let him come back if that's the case).

But if I leave what happens to daughter? I won't ever see her again and I'm the only mother she knows. Who will advocate for her? husband will train her to become codependent on difficult child (aw...give him a break, he's 'sick', he can't help it, you shouldn't blame him for taking your stuff...be the bigger person, be more understanding...).

Besides, I love my husband, and when we get away from the difficult child issues, it's wonderful being with him. So for me there's a sense of being stuck, but knowing if I can just hang on, difficult child will eventually be out of the house permanently and husband and I can have a very nice life together.

 

[WSM]

So how's he going to be removed from the home?

If anyone has any ideas, please, please, please. He needs a therapeutic residential school.

I am going to take everyone's advice and show the behavior log to our marriage counselor, and show the picture he drew of him jumping on his sister and stabbing her and his head exploding and his dad upside down (if I knew how to post pictures, I'd post it here). Maybe she will urge husband to take them to his new therapist and psychiatrist.

No counselors have seen it yet, but when I've brought it up, they all say it's not such a big deal, kids will draw pictures of themselves killing their families. Well, maybe the kids they deal with do it, but none of my kids did and I've asked friends and none of their kids did. Most lay people think it's horrible. But three counselors (none of whom saw the picture) have shrugged it off and showed no interest in it.

 

[TerryJ2]

A good counselor should be able to talk to difficult child about the drawing and discern whether it was drawn in the anger of the moment, or whether it indicates a long-term plan. It should take less than 10 min.

Unless your husband gets on the same page, I wouldn't know what to do. There is no consistency here.

I would seriously consider sending difficult child to the other uncle, despite what you think it will do to your husband's relationship. You have no $ to do otherwise at the moment.

FWIW.

 

[gcvmom]

I have to agree that it sounds like your husband is enabling the situation by being inconsistent. Ditto to Terry's suggestion that the two of you need to be on the same page, or the cycle will just continue.

Let us know what the counselor says about the journal and pictures!

 

[mrscatinthehat]

Wow,

I just wanted to say that I started off as step mom to my two difficult children. It is not easy. Obviously you already know that. I see about a thousand red flags in all that you have talked about.

I totally agree that husband is in denial. Mine didn't want to be a bad guy in all of the conflama that went on. I am trying to think of all I wanted to say.

You are a part of the solution people need to listen to you. You see things that others obviously don't and need to be heard.

Please protect yourself.

beth

 

[maril]

Wow,

You are a part of the solution people need to listen to you. You see things that others obviously don't and need to be heard.

Please protect yourself.

beth

Wise words from mrscatinthehat.

I realize you are in a very difficult position. However, as his stepmom living in the same house, his actions do affect you and everyone in your home; you do have a say in taking steps to get him help and to help make your home a safer place to live.

I have seen posts on the boards that give information regarding seeking financial help to cover costs of institutional care. Maybe someone else will come along and shed some light or you might try doing a search for those posts; for example, Medicaid was one option discussed but am not sure how it would apply in your circumstances.

Take care. Many hugs to you.

 

[WSM]

I contacted a medicaid atty this morning and asked if she thought she could get him on medicaid so we can get treatment for him. His mom's on medicaid, and one of the best mental health facilities in the country is in our county and has helped his mom, but won't do anything for him because he's not on medicaid or medicare. His mom was sane for 2 years because of their program. They have a kickazz program for kids, but they won't even recommend someone because he's not on medicaid.

Does anyone have any experience with getting on medicaid and getting medicaid to fund residential treatment?

difficult child was put into his room after school on Friday and has only come out for meals, bathroom and showers. husband said yesterday, just looking at his face fills me with rage. He's been excused all chores for the time being since he uses them as an opportunity to steal or destroy things, and is passive aggressive about them and very slow and ends up doing a crappy job. For example it takes up to 2 hours do the dishwasher and he tries his best to sneak dirty dishes into the cabinets. It's a game, he's being watched so he waits for you to look away a sec. He makes sure he washes half a dish, and will spend 10 minutes scrubbing one half while 'not seeing' the other half. He loads the dishwasher so the dishes won't get clean, bowls stuck into each other, one cup over another, dishes hidden in pots, and a bonus if he can manage it, mashed potatoes in the soap holder or his sister's watch or dad's gps tucked among the dishes.

We want one weekend when he does nothing to us.

 

[WSM]

husband just informed me that he doesn't want difficult child on medicaid on 'those programs' because they might jeopardize his future. You know--the stigma of them.



I just don't understand the denial.

difficult child also told husband he didn't get his pill this morning, even tho I gave him one and showed husband the empty and moved pill box. Caught in a lie, difficult child just said, "when?" and then "I don't remember".

I'm so at my limit with this problem, it's stuff like this that makes me think it's time just to walk away.

 

[BusynMember]

Well, I think you got some good advice and, sadly, I think husband is in the hopelessly delusional category. WHAT future does he think difficult child has? At this rate, it's jail or a mental institution (there seems to be out-of-control psychiatric illnesses in the family--and in my opinion SS inherited something bad).

husband is thinking of SS over his daughter. I understand your dilemma. Your own kids aren't really in danger and you want to stay there for the daughter. in my opinion she is being abused by SS. Poor little girl.

 

[maril]

I had read your post re consulting with attorney about Medicaid, etc., and felt hopeful; then on reading the followup post you made, I realized you are in a tough position since your husband is having a hard time/as you say, in denial/doesn't want the "stigma." Maybe it will take time, but I would not give up on husband. Is there anyone that both he and you would feel comfortable talking with as a "mediator type," who would be on the same page as you/support your ideas? I do respect your husband's feelings, as this is not an easy choice. However, MWM made a very good point regarding the possible bleak outlook for your stepson's future by not pursuing further treatment.

My difficult child was recently discharged from court-ordered inpatient treatment at a dual diagnosis facility. husband and I were impressed with the facility and our son's progress. We are hopeful for him; although, we realize he still has an uphill battle. I do recognize there may be a stigma attached but in hindsight also realize that difficult child was headed for disaster if there had been no intervention.

Hang in there. I hope whatever is decided will be positive for you all.

**I wanted to add as an afterthought that in our personal case when I refer to "stigma" -- it is referring to the fact that I have become aware that there are a few people in our community who do not understand my difficult children struggles with illness and substance dependence; as far as Medicaid goes, we personally have no experience with that at this time but may apply as time goes on (have bookmarked our state's website) depending on what our insurance will cover for future treatment.

 

[DammitJanet]

I dont quite get where your husband is coming from with the medicaid or "those type" program stigma deal. His son is still quite young and I dont know of any database or permanent record that anyone can access that has MEDICAID recipient stamped on it! When he goes to buy a car or get a job or even go to college if can manage any of these things...no one is gonna say...omg...this kid was on medicaid...no way!

What people are gonna notice is if he is an untreated mentally ill unstable young adult who cannot handle life in our society. That will cause him problems.

I worked for the state government and I had been on Medicaid before I got that job. No one asked me if I had been on Medicaid. It wasnt stamped on my forehead. I worked for the state for years until my disabilities became to great for me to continue working. I helped give Medicaid to people who needed it. Its not a sin to need Medicaid. Its part of the safety net in this country. It can also open doors that other private insurance cannot.

 

[graceupongrace]

WSM,

What makes the family-killing pictures alarming to me is the fact that he has actually stabbed and slashed things (not to mention all the other destruction). Your log and the pictures belong together. Also, even if he doesn't intend to hurt you, the impulsivity can take over in a heated situation. Our difficult children lose all ability to think clearly when they are angry (or at least mine does!).

I'm not sure why these men are in denial about their sons. My xh hasn't taken difficult child's threats of violence seriously either, despite a few incidents. I hope that the marriage counselor can convince him that there is a real problem, and that living in constant fear is hazardous to everyone's health.

Hugs to you!!!

 

[gcvmom]

Its not a sin to need Medicaid. Its part of the safety net in this country. It can also open doors that other private insurance cannot.

Well said, Janet. I totally agree with you.