end of my rope

[Allan-Matlem]

Nancy ,

My response was to the opening post , It seems I was on page one , missed page 2

The mom here is in my humble opinion really confused - she is trying to control the situation and confront difficult child which makes things worse and just escalates things and she is trying to stay in control and not let the Po or the law take over . Once the law takes over , she is no longer in control.

But as already said sometimes kids need to go through the law courts in order to get treatment

Allan

 

[Vanilla]

I had not been on this site for quite some time...now reading your post it is like my life was about 5 years ago. My son was exactly that way: angry, abusive, destructive. My husband and he would have arguments that escalated many times. Police came out, once he got an assessment at a psychiatric hospital but was not admitted. Another time, he went through a Juvenile Court diversion program. I often walked on eggshells to try and not "set him off." Finally he pulled a knife on me and his twin brother. I called the police and demanded that he be put in Juvenile Detention. He was for three days and then on probation for several months. It was not all smooth after that, but he did realize a line had been crossed and that I would no longer stand for his physical aggressiveness. Lying to "protect" you son will only enable his bad choices. I knew my son had to understand that the kind of behavior he was displaying would lead to prison as an adult. He hated being in JDC and he is intelligent so I think he did make a connection that this was NOT how he wanted his life to be. He moved many miles away when he was almost 20. He's self sufficient, works, is a full time college student, receives no mental health services and has not been arrested anymore. We talk fairly frequently and it's always cordial...NOTHING like the hell it was when he lived at home and what you're going through. I would never have believed it was possible. So please help your son by ensuring he is accountable for his actions, mental health or substance abuse help if he needs (and will accept) but do NOT be his victim any longer!

 

[GB_42_XYZ]

It went down just as I knew it would. (I was at work). My wife fixed the holes and told the JPO that difficult child fixed them. She did her best to down play the situation of course. The only thing coming out of the incident is he is no longer on house arrest, but he does have a curfew from the JPO (7:00pm); as if it really matters to him anyway. I have given up trying to change my wife's mindset. It's a wasted effort. Me and difficult child are not speaking at the moment, which is mostly my choice. I refuse to have anything to do with him until he learns to show some respect and/or a little remorse for the damage he's caused.

 

[Nancy]

GB he is not going to show and respect or remorse until he gets help. There will come a time when you and your wife will have to draw the line in the sand. Until then I guess all you can do is wait. You know in your heart that this is not going to get better on its own.

Nancy

 

[Allan-Matlem]

Hi,

Not talking to some one can be called ' passive agression ' and does nobody any good. As Nancy said the remorse and regret will come after he gets help , in any case apologies that don't come with change from the inside are just cheap words. Not talking will just reinforce any negative thoughts that your son has of you. The only tool you have is relationship and your ability for you and others to reach him. Your wife is trying to coonfront him , control him and enable him - that's not relationship , nor is not speaking

As a start I would invite him for a chat out of the home over a treat - no blaming , I am not mad at you etc just want to hear what's up , what bugs you , I just want to listen
Let him speak , don't try to answer , just try to get more input , more info , can you tell me more , all you want is for him to feel understood

You could try and direct the conversation towards his goals and his future , and ask how do you think what is happening will further his interests

In the home focus on general chatting , perspective taking , how he feels about something , how he thinks you feel about it

This is a start

I hope this helps

Allan

 

[toughlovin]

Hi GB,

Well I agree that relationship is important but I think the relationship right now that has to be worked on is the one with your wife. Clearly the two of you are not in the same place on what to do about your difficult child. This has got to be causing a lot of resentment and strife between you. Your difficult child can play that to the hilt if he wants. I really suggest you find a marriage counselor that you can both go to and both be honest. I am sure you resent her enablement of your son. I am sure that on some level she feels you just don't understand her feelings as his mother. I know for my husband and I it helped a lot for us to talk to someone together. In our case I was the one further along in the journey to not enabling him but it wasn't going to work if I stopped enabling him if my husband continued to do so. It was much more effective when my husband stepped in and also took a stand. My son listened then because when his dad took a stand he knew there was no way out. So I really feel you and your wife needs some help on this together, otherwise this is going to break the two of you apart.

Allan - I am curious because it is not in your signature. How old is your difficult child and what is the situation? You may have stated that somewhere else on the board but I haven't seen it.

My experience with my son is that tryingn to take him out fo a heart to heart would not have worked. He did not show any indication of wanting a relationship with me. What I had to do was stop enabling him and then in little ways still let him know I loved him and was there. I do think it is important that they know you care about them, but a 16 year old who is abusing drugs and does not really want a relationship with you is not going to easily sit down for a chat. At least I know mine wouldn't. He would have responded by being very sullen, giving one word grunt answers and I would have felt awful. It just plain would not have worked at this point in time.

It sounds to me like GB is not talking to difficult child for his own mental survival. I get that. Sometimes that is what you have to do. You have to step back and disengage. We are human too and constant rejection and disrespect by a difficult child takes it toll.

I now look for the little ways my difficult child connects to me. If I look they are there. So for example he still has his cell phone in rehab. He is texting us here and there and asking us a question. It is a practical question with not a lot of emotion but he is still contacting us and that is good. So I take it for what it is and of course I always respond.

 

[Allan-Matlem]

Hi,

My ds now 19 is an ex difficult child , doing very well , maturing etc. A bright kid which was both a plus , but also a minus for him. What helped us was the fact that his friends were kids with values , pcs etc , so I never had the problem of negative peer influence. I can't emphasize how crucial positive peer influences are - you can offer the best treatment but that goes to the wind when the kid gets back with his friends. What helped a lot was a mentor , somebody he studied with and would confide in . To this day there is some one in his life , a young adult with whom he consults , chats etc - when the relationship is more democratic they open up more . With implosive kids , not the explosive types , the ones that shut down it is more difficult to get talking. The truth is as Dr Greene says that many kids just don't have the skills to have a conversation, take perspectives , empathize, articulate their own concerns or feelings . In the past their concerns have been ignored or they have not got the skills to articulate them in appropriate ways. The best place to start is just general chatting on non-emotive stuff , something that difficult child has an interest in or can identify with or consult him on a dilemna we might have .

In the main the change came when he was able to trust his teachers , that they were not interested in punishing him , but helping him come up with a better plan , improve the relationship and inspire him.

Not easy
Allan

 

[gottaloveem]

I'm curious if you have dug down into his drug use. I know you stated he is smoking pot, based on his behavior I would say there is a possibility that he is using something other than pot. The fact that he stole the Xbox is a screaming red flag for me, also the holes in the walls, the irrational behavior. Kids usually don't steal and sell things for pot money,although I suppose it is possible. Many kids are using prescription drugs these days, it has been proven that prescription drugs are very often the first drug a kid will try nowadays ahead of pot and alcohol.

You may want to drug test him.

His behavior could mean he is addicted to more than pot.

It is just my opinion, but please don't leave the house because of your son, your wife and son need you more now than ever. I do understand not wanting to live with all the chaos, violence, and defiance, but you are needed. Please hang in there, if you leave it will get worse. It does take some of us moms longer to get fed up, we have to try to protect and fix them first. It doesn't come easily but for many of us it does come.

I understand we went through very much the same thing. As you can see in my signature my story does not end with a happy ending, we lost our son to an overdose 4 1/2 years ago.

Love,
Lia

 

[PatriotsGirl]

I would say it would definitely be more than pot, too. My difficult child's behaviors were at their worst and I subsequently found out she was using meth.

Edited to add that meth has no smell. no odor. She was doing it right in her bedroom and no one had any idea.

 

[toughlovin]

I think often, very often, drug use is much worse than they tell us. This was true of my difficult child who kept telling us he only smoked weed. Now we knew differently to some extent but I recently found out it was much worse than we thought. Definitely into prescription pain medications including ocycontin....

Thank goodness he is now in drug rehab.

 

[Nancy]

toughlovin I was shocked to find out at rehab how much difficult child was drinking. It was common for family member to find out their loved ones were using more drugs than originally thought. We were there when a dad found out his daughter was shooting heroin in addition to using cocaine. It was devastationg for so many, but at least it was out in the open finally.

Nancy

 

[susiestar]

It is rare for a child to tell their parent they are doing anything other than pot. Usually by the time they are willing to openly admit pot use they are using something else. My mother called me when she had taken my gfgbro to rehab a few years ago. She asked if I had known of anything gfgbro had used other than alcohol and occasionally pot. Gfgbro blacked out a LOT from the alcohol. We knew a lot of the same people and he hung around the crowd I had worked with, so we were at the same parties. He would use ANYTHING once he was drunk. He rarely remembered it, but I saw him smoke/snort almost everything from acid to cocaine and crack. Meth wasn't used in our group to my knowledge (this was about 17-19 yrs ago as I dropped the crowd after I got married for the most part. I had a husband and child and other priorities and never really fit in because I didn't use pot or anything else. Being around pot put me to sleep almost instantly so I avoided it.

My mom still doesn't believe he did anything but alcohol more than 1-2 times. Fact is I saw him use the other stuff almost every weekend for several years. And often during the week. He "forgets" all of it, and all the awful stuff he did while drunk, from abusing me to riding a bike nekkid down the major road my parents live on. He usually dropped his clothes about the fourth shot of booze. REALLY embarrassin, but my parents truly believe he has forgotten. I don't.

Your wife is just going to make your son worse. There is little you can do, just like there is little I could do to get my parents to realize what my gfgbro had done, and just like I will never be able to get my gfgbro to "remember" what al he did. If he allowed himself to remember he would likely kill himself because he did such terrible awful monstrous things.

I am sorry that things are so awful. If possible you should cut all funds from him, even if it means putting your wife on an allowance and getting a separate checking account that is only in your name so that she cannot give your difficult child any $$. It won't be easy.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE attend as many alanon meetings as you can. This is a FAMILY disease and every family member NEEDS support and help. Including YOU. Alanon or narcanon can be that help.

7 meetings in 7 days. I challenge you to attend 7 alanon meetings in 7 days. Lunchtime ones, evening ones, weekend ones. You don't have to say anything if you don't want to. You will be amazed at the love, acceptance and support you find there.

Many hugs, One Day At A Time (ODAAT)

 

[1905]

I can understand not being on the same page. It's very hard on a marrige, and having a difficult child in general is hard on a family. At some point all the craziness is just your family's norm, and that needs to change. No more lying to the PO! difficult child has to change his behavior, but why should he? There isn't any consequences harsh enough-he runs the show, and he knows this. Please think with your head. Call the PO, tell him what's been going on.

Things will keep getting worse, you can see for yourself. I do know what living like this is like- I lived with a son like this, holes in the walls and all, until I kicked him out and had to get a restraining order against him to protect my family. That was the best thing I had EVER done for him. FOR HIM! He would still be living here like that. You and your wife are making his life too easy. Call the police on him if you need to, stop protecting him and protect yourself! I'm wishing you peace.

 

[GB_42_XYZ]

Update:

My wife finally got sick of my difficult child and his friends using our house as the party/crash house and the holes in the walls, etc. We took the computer from him. That didn't go over very well. He had a rage and tried to steal one of our TVs. He told my wife "give me back my computer and you can have the TV back". Sounds like a 8 year old, doesn't it? Anyway that was a week ago and he's still bent out of shape. He is still verbally abusive to my wife, physically abusive to her car(it's beginning to look like she drives in a demolition derby) and our house. He finally pushed her far enough to call the cops. Unfortunately they can't really help. He was supposed to see his JPO yesterday, but he stayed away. THe JPO says he will come back next week and if he isn't here he will get a court date setup and have him back in juvie.

 

[toughlovin]

GB - Glad to hear it. Just remember getting to the point where you take a stand and hold your ground is a process... often one partner gets there before the other. Sounds like your wife is getting there though and at is what is needed. It took us a while too.....and my son ended up spending a couple of weeks in jail. That really woke him up and may be the best thing that ever happened to him since now he is in rehab... It was awful having my son in jail but right now I am very glad that happened.

So hang in there and it may be time to let the court system take over and do their part.

 

[GB_42_XYZ]

He's already spent a couple of weeks in juvenile hall (~ 1 year ago). This time it will likely be for 3 to 6 months.

 

[Nancy]

What do you mean the cops won't help? What state do you live in? Our cops are very helpful when parents call because their child is violating the law or committing domestic violence. I don't have much patience for not helping when parents are begging for help. We called the police many many times on difficult child and they never failed to respond. If they so much as saw one hole in a wall they would have arrested her on the spot.

Nancy

 

[GB_42_XYZ]

Apparently we live in different states. The problem is one parent is begging for help and the other begs for help until they show up and then she breaks out the sugar coating.

I was feeling a bit of relief and peace today because I thought I saw the light at the end of the tunnel, but it seems like it may not be the case. He came home today and my wife reminded him of all his responsibilities and apointments and he seemed to be in a somewhat agreeable mood. He went out to a football game and claimed he needed some money. She asked what he did with the prescription drugs he stole a couple of days ago (ADHD). He claimed that he gave them away. My wife gave him $30. She's wonders why I'm pi**ed. If nothing happens soon I'm leaving.

 

[toughlovin]

Oh boy that is tough. It is so easy to see that she is enabling him and he is going to abuse her trust again. I am guessing everyone here has been through that at some level and can see it coming. I feel for you. Yet it is a real process and she just isn't to the end of her rope yet. It may take you leaving for her to get there, I hope not.

Yeah the cops are not going to get imbetween you and your wife.... I think they will help if you both want it.

Keep coming to the board. You definitely will find understanding here.

 

[GB_42_XYZ]

Update:

difficult child was busted again with marijuana (on school property). Came up with a reasonable plan with the lawyer and JPO to send difficult child to a local well-known, big name hospital drug program (our choice, if he can get in) or Phoenix House (not our 1st choice and he would likely get kicked out anyway. He thinks it's too long and would rather go to juvey). While waiting to get into a program he has to stay in a sort of halfway house(just hang out and watch movies mostly). Unfortunately he seems to have problems following the rules there as well. I'm not sure he would even make it in either of the drug programs. He is apparently still glorifying drug use at the halfway house. He doesn't seem to get it. I am desperately trying to keep him out of juvenile hall; $15k a month doesn't fit into my budget. Any ideas? Is there any drug/ODD/behavior programs that aren't voluntary besides jail?