Gave difficult child the "Old Tomato"

[hearts and roses]

I know, I know, ultimatums rarely work out....hahha, but H wasn't following through with his 'plan' (UNplan is more like it).

Jan 31st came and went and H never took her keys away. He claims, "Well, she got a job". Yeah, but she doesn't start until tomorrow and the deal was she couldn't use her car except for work until she got her first check/one week - whichever came first. It was a stupid plan anyway, in my opinion, but I did agree to let H have at her.

Anyway, girlfriend never came home on Friday night OR Saturday night - never called, etc. I woke up in the middle of the night around 3AM on Friday night/Saturday morning and called her cell. She answered all groggy and said, "oh, I didn't realize what time it was". I just hung up and told her that her sister was coming home Sat and it would be nice if she were home for a while. difficult child texted me at 7AM and asked if I was going to NY. Well, I wasn't because easy child was coming home, but I never answered difficult child's text because I was so angry with her. She called me instead. I said No and she never came home until around 5PM, chatted for a few minutes while she wolfed down leftover pasta and something else, took her medications and then split again (this time with an old friend in tow who she brought home with her as a buffer). I watch on incredulously as H did absolutely nothing.

All evening and up until we went to bed, long after easy child went back to school, H asked me over and over, "Where is difficult child? Where is difficult child??" I got so peeved I told him to shut the F up about it already and yelled at him for not following through with ANYTHING EVER!!!

difficult child never came home on Sat night either, no call. Late Sunday morning, after H asked me again, "Where is difficult child?", and then called difficult child's cell. difficult child never called back until 4PM and told H that she forgot to call. Well, I've had it by this point because H tells her "You know, we're really upset with you. I think you should come home tonight" and they hang up.

After watching the Giants make an amazing win we went to bed. difficult child came in around midnight. This morning, I printed out our original agreement, cut and highlighted the most important parts, added a reminder paragraph and left it for her. In the amended paragraph I told her that this little party has come to an end. That she either shaped up or has to get out. I took her keys from her bag and disconnected the internet cable. If I could have, I would have taken her bed warmer, all the food and electric and heat away as well!

I just want to be clear, I don't want her home all the time, God no. I just want her to be respectful of us, our home, and our rules; get a job, be responsible for herself, BATHE regularly and BRUSH HER TEETH, WASH AND DO HER HAIR, clean her clothes. OMG, is that too much to ask?

Dicks won't give her a FT position if she's smelly, dirty, has continuous bad breath and smelly hair, calls in sick, is late all the time, etc. And this is how it will be if she doesn't start taking care of herself.

She HAS a kidney infection. Our DR gave her a strong antibiotic on Friday to take twice a day with plenty of water to flush things out. She's taken TWO pills all weekend. This kid is going to end up in the hospital hooked up to an IV soon. Oh, and about that. I told her that I was no longer paying her co-pays to see the DR or when she brings herself to the ER or her antibiotics since she's making ZERO effort to care for herself. She's burning the candle at both ends and always running off to be with Monkeyboy that her health is suffering. Not to mention the copay for the NUVA RING that she keeps forgetting to put in and take out. She never got her period this month. She was supposed to put it in yesterday. She had a preggo test when they did the urinalysis test and it came back negative - why didn't she get her period?? If she were preggo with Monkeyboy's baby, I don't think she WOULD get an abortion! She's so infatuated with him. I wish I could post his picture because I don't see the attraction. Ugh.

So, that's as far as I got with my plan for today. Today, she is stuck at home. Tomorrow she is supposed to start her job. I feel better, but sick to my stomach. It's a horrible feeling to want her out of the house.

Thanks for the vent.

 

[DammitJanet]

Jo...I so understand. I dont have any advice because Im in the middle of the same thing...but I understand. As awful as it sounds, we are counting the days until April hoping that the state will find appropriate living arrangements for ours for a little while...sigh.

 

[Coookie]

Oh Jo,

Hugs to you. While my difficult child is doing relatively well right now I do remember that horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach. Blech...

I remember unplugging the phone, internet access, giving the final ultimatum and hoping against hope that I would have the strength to follow through and then one day I did. That was the day husband and I bought difficult children ticket to Arizona. Hardest day of my life but I was so fed up I made it through ok.

It is especially hard when husband wants to handle it and we see nothing happening. My husband's way seems very similar to yours but then I am the type that wants to see results... NOW!!!!

I have no words of wisdom for you but I truly understand. One thing I want to mention though is that before difficult child went to Arizona my marriage was taking major hits... something that was very new to husband and I so basically it came down to us or him.

Then the choice was clear. Didn't mean we stopped loving him or wanting to help him, just meant that we decided that no matter what problems difficult child had...he was not taking our marriage down with him.

Hugs

 

[hearts and roses]

One thing I want to mention though is that before difficult child went to Arizona my marriage was taking major hits... something that was very new to husband and I so basically it came down to us or him. Then the choice was clear. Didn't mean we stopped loving him or wanting to help him, just meant that we decided that no matter what problems difficult child had...he was not taking our marriage down with him. Hugs

I can totally relate to this, Robby, because although mine and H's marriage is by no means perfect, it has come a long way this past year as H has been sober. I too have learned that I will not sacrifice what I have with H for difficult child. She's old enough, smart enough and capable enough of doing for herself, caring for herself and all she's doing now is causing strife in our home and I will not have it anymore. H thinks I'm awful because I told him I want her out. And it's not that I want her out, but I can't have her here while she's living like this. It's more of a need than a want. You know.

 

[Abbey]

I'm not sure where it is in the long post, but you need to read Pico's "This is not a hotel" post. It's great. I did exactly as she said and printed it out and put it on the fridge.

Finally, you have a tough road to go if you and husband are not on the same page. Trust me...been there done that. Maybe first what needs to happen is you and husband have a heart to heart and iron out some of these things. It means giving up some of what you are most annoyed, and he do the same. For example, I HATE clutter. When I walk in easy child's room, I just cringe. To husband, he doesn't care. I gave that one up. I just don't go in there anymore.

Abbey

 

[Coookie]

Jo,

Maybe if you tell H exactly what you wrote here it would better help him to understand? I didn't WANT difficult child to go either, in a perfect world I wanted a happy home with him moving on to become a responsible, working adult BUT the choices he was making and the subsequent fighting husband and I were doing pushed us to do what we did.

husband and I found ourselves disagreeing about many things concerning difficult child such as husband wanting to handle it and my not seeing any change.

husband and I rarely fought and then it was "cold" wars but during that time it became very ugly...I didn't like it at all and neither did husband. The FED up part came very quickly as did the decision to buy the ticket but in retrospect it was the best thing. It gave husband and I time to heal, which we needed.

It isn't turning your back on your difficult child, it is facing the fact (for me anyway) that I married that man because I loved him and no matter where or what difficult child does with his life my husband is my best friend and we need to protect that relationship.

Holding good thoughts for you, your husband and your difficult child.

More hugs

 

[hearts and roses]

I'm not sure where it is in the long post, but you need to read Pico's "This is not a hotel" post. It's great. I did exactly as she said and printed it out and put it on the fridge. Finally, you have a tough road to go if you and husband are not on the same page. Trust me...been there done that. Maybe first what needs to happen is you and husband have a heart to heart and iron out some of these things. It means giving up some of what you are most annoyed, and he do the same. Abbey

I will try and find Picos Hotel post. H and I are in agreement about what's bothering us and we're both very angry at difficult child about her lifestyle (or lackthereof) and everything. It's that H seems to hate confrontation and won't make a move to change anything until it directly affects him. Quite frankly I am AMAZED that he has continued to pay for difficult child's car insurance all this time. I mean AMAZED - as he is quite the tightwad. Haha.

We can both ignore the messy room and her being out all the time if she were at least working and working towards a goal. If she were at least bathing regularly, I could let some of my anger go. But she's being a lazy, good for nothing, waste of skin right now and it's sending us both over the edge. Maybe the reason it bothers me more than H is because she's MY daughter. As difficult as it is for me to believe this, but maybe if she were his BIO daughter, he'd be more vested in finding an appropriate action here.

Robby - Excellent idea! I will share this post with H tonight. Maybe it will help him to understand my position and why I need difficult child to either shape up or get out. Thanks.

 

[Mikey]

Jo, re:

I told her that I was no longer paying her co-pays to see the DR or when she brings herself to the ER or her antibiotics since she's making ZERO effort to care for herself. She's burning the candle at both ends and always running off to be with Monkeyboy that her health is suffering....

Let me know how that goes. I've thought about doing the same thing with McWeedy and his smoking, i.e. if he doesn't quit no more copays, no more free prescriptions, and if he ends up in the ER with another asthma attack he'll foot the bill (assuming he survives it).

I really feel for you on this one. As if drinking/drugs/acting out isn't dangerous enough, it's even worse when your difficult child has a known medical issue that they repeatedly ignore - and that the parents have to (repeatedly) help them recover from.

Right now, though, I'm talking to my insurance company to figure out how I can keep him on my policy, but have him be primarily responsible for all out-of-pocket expenses. If you know the magic words to tell the insurance folks to make this happen, would you please let me know? Right now, they say that since it's my policy, I'm the guarantor for all services provided on the policy.

Hope it works out for you, though.

Mikey

 

[witzend]

Sounds as though she is very successfully triangulating you and husband. With M, husband said he would take care of things when I finally had enough and was ineffective. What a lamebrain wish on my part that was! Why on earth would I think he would suddenly jump in and do everything I had been doing for the past 17 years? He didn't do dip. The expectation that he would, and M's manipulation of that nearly cost us our marriage. Honestly, we will never be as much in love as we were. It was too much to expect of him, it was too much of a disappointment for me. It was totally unrealistic of me to expect that it could happen.

As you know, it's been a long road for us. husband has only now after 4 years made contact with M, and is trying to rebuild a relationship. I'm comfortable now with my position, and willing to consider bending. I'm not ready to bend. I'm fine letting husband do what he will do, so long as it doesn't involve me until I have seen something that makes me feel that I am comfortable with having more with M than I have now.

Unfortunately for me, what it took was time and distance. I hope that for you and your family it won't take as much time or as much distance. But for you and your husband, I hope that you will re-examine what your expectations are of him. If he can't do it, and doesn't have the will to make himself that man that he really should be for you, are you ready to live with that disappointment?

Looking at what I am saying, it seems really sad, because I am not one that I thought would ever say "give up". But in hindsight, I am someone who is totally logical, and expecting my husband to deal with M at all was not at all realistic.

 

[hearts and roses]

Jo, re:

Let me know how that goes. I've thought about doing the same thing with McWeedy and his smoking, i.e. if he doesn't quit no more copays, no more free prescriptions, and if he ends up in the ER with another asthma attack he'll foot the bill (assuming he survives it).

Right now, though, I'm talking to my insurance company to figure out how I can keep him on my policy, but have him be primarily responsible for all out-of-pocket expenses. If you know the magic words to tell the insurance folks to make this happen, would you please let me know? Right now, they say that since it's my policy, I'm the guarantor for all services provided on the policy.

Mikey, if she goes for medical help at an er or dr office on her own, the bills come to our home in her name. I will pay for her birth control and her AD's but nothing else. I only pay for the BC because I don't want to see her get pregnant, and the AD for obvious reasons. Although, after she leaves there is no guarantee that she will take them anyway.

Tell me what your ins co says. Thanks.

 

[hearts and roses]

Witz and Abbey, I told H tonight, after things started getting heated, that I am tired of putting our marriage and happines on hold due to difficult child's drama and theatrics. He just kind of looked at me. But I think I saw some hope behind his eyes.

difficult child is a complete mess right now - like 'a trapped rat in a maze and no way out' would descibe it about right. She's sobbing and begging us to let her have the car, just till she gets some money and can put it into her name. She says she needs to leave to be independent, her friend's going to let her stay in her extra room. She starts work tomorrow, she has to leave....blah blah blah. I said, "Honey, I'd rather you do the right thing and get a better start, work, save some money before moving out. BUT if you're bent on moving out, you have my blessing. I get it - you want out. That's fine. When you transfer everything for your car into your name and get some insurance for yourself, you can come back for it."

That's when she flipped out. "Please, please, can't I just have it now so I can leave and I will change everything over when I get my first check?? Please mom! YOu don't get it!!" meanwhile, sobbing the whole while.

I didn't crack!! I was strong, not one tear shed. H backed me up, went into the room and repeated everything I said. We're united. I feel strong. I still think we should just let her learn the hard way - H still thinks he can get her to understand. I told him if he wants to try, go for it, but the second we turn our backs, she's gone. He knows it too.

Anyway, had to post the update! Please please please, send strength. Thanks

 

[Star*]

Hi Jo,

Well I hear you. I don't know that there IS a way to correct a problem like you have with difficult child at this moment - without putting her somewhere else or turning her out so you can regain some of your sanity and heal your relationship.

And then there is the matter of YOU my dear, not feeling well. (taps foot as arms are crossed and eyebrow is up, shaking my head)

I wish I had a good solid answer for you - but unfortunately once you add a difficult child to the mix - the soup becomes butter with crickets.

Hugs
Star

 

[hearts and roses]

She's gone. A friend came and picked her up to drive her to her friend's house (one of the ones we do not know) for the night. She said she'll be back in the morning; I almost asked "why?" but figured that would be too much. She was a mess, blubbering and then said, with a hint of a smile, "I'm scared!" and reached out for a hug.

This dry-eyed momma gave her the hug, told her I thought she was doing it all wrong, that it was all going to be okay, that she should stop underselling herself and then left the room. I think she was a little shocked that I wasn't crying too.

Anyway, I feel okay. I think H is waiting for me to cry. I don't think there are any left.

 

[Abbey]

One thing I've learned about these supposed adult-kids is that they are very resourceful. (Gosh, it's late and I don't know if I'm spelling right. If you know how Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) I am...this will haunt me tonight. Ok...I'm going to dictionary.com. Didn't find anything there. Maybe I should invent another word. Geez...)

Ok...on a side note, it took me 5 minutes to find the spelling of resourceful. I'm happy now and can sleep.

Back to the point. These kids are very adept at making their own way under dire circumstances. They can be very crafty at the guilt thing, too. Oh...I don't have my cell phone. Too bad. Find some quarters to make your calls, or **** off your friends who will quickly get tired of you. You make the choice.

What you have to decide is what is dire for you and what is dire for them. It can be quite different. If you can put up with an adult who comes and goes whenever they want, doesn't contribute to the household...then go for it. I could not.

If's she's gone, I suspect it's not going to be for long. You have to decide whether your house is a home or a hotel.

Give hugs and support...but don't enable. Sorry if this was a tough speech.

Abbey

 

[witzend]

Abbey you crack me up! Looking up "resourceful" in the dictionary to see if it is the right word, deciding that there's nothing more apt, then coming back with "These kids are very adept..."

 

[hearts and roses]

Seriously Abbey, thanks for the morning chuckle~

difficult child will be coming home today so she can shower and get ready for her first day at her new job. Not sure how she plans on getting anywhere as H didn't buckle under last night and give her hers.

I discovered this morning (something I already knew, but for some reason it was like a epiphany for me this morning) that my H is clueless. I love him, he's been so good to the girls, supportive, yadda yadda yadda. But My God, we were discussing the 'what happens next' stuff over our morning coffee and paper and he said still is saying, "We can't just let her go. We need to find a way to make her see..." I came back at him and reminded him that we've been trying to 'make her see' for YEARS, most of her life in fact. I told him I felt like a wrung out dishrag - I have used up all my resources to find a way to "help" her and "make her see" the

way. Apparently, OUR way is not the way she chooses....blah blah blah...and so it went.

Then, after H admitted that I was probably right and said his piece, I simply added, "Hon, she's determined to go. At this point there is very little that we can do. She doesn't want to live the way we need her to under our roof, she feels she needs to go, and it's okay with me. Some of us have to learn the hard way - it is what it is. We have to let her go." He said, "She'll come back you know. She'll get into trouble and we can't just leave her in jail. She may end up pregnant and we're going be called in." I said we'd cross that bridge when we get to it, but for now, she has to go. He shook his head and then went on a tirade about what a loser Monkeyboy is (I think the thought of MB touching difficult child is killing him).

Thanks for all the support. Although there have been no tears on the outside, I am shaking inside - I hope we're doing the right thing for her. I know it was nice last night after she left and this morning while getting ready for work not thinking about whether or not she will sleep until noon, etc. ​

 

[meowbunny]

As you said, she will be back. It will take using up all of her resources (now I started doubting how to spell it) but once gone, she'll be back. She'll probably be jobless, homeless, have lost at least half of her things, her friends. She'll promise the sun, the moon, the stars to come back home. She'll get comfortable, go back to old ways, be forced to leave again when you're adamant on rules being following ...... Amazingly, if ths happens enough and the bottom becomes a bit rockier every time, she may actually get it and move out the right way. This is what is happening with my daughter.

It's been a slow, painful journey (on both sides) but, hopefully, this phase of the journey is almost over. She's saving money, she's making some real plans, she's asking for help about furnishings, etc. She's not just planning to move out and live with whomever has room. She's not making bad choices here in the hopes she'll be kicked out.

As much as it hurts and as frightening as it is, you're doing the right thing. Some of our kids don't get it until they have to try on their own.

HUGS to you and husband.

 

[janebrain]

Hi Jo,
just sending hugs and support--I so strongly believe you are doing the right thing and I know how hard it is--kudos to you for remaining strong! I felt much the way you do when I kicked difficult child 1 out--I just was "there"--I couldn't take it anymore-- didn't cry, I didn't care, I was mostly relieved and even euphoric at times. I hope your husband can come to see that "making her see" and helping her are really not working and even detrimental at this point. She has to figure this out by herself and she may just surprise you at some point and begin making some better decisions. She sounds so much like my difficult child--she will have to make the wrong choices to learn what the right ones are. And you are right--you can't figure out how to deal with all the potential problems, you will just have to wait and see and deal with them when and if they occur.

You are doing great!

Jane

 

[Kathy813]

She'll get into trouble and we can't just leave her in jail. She may end up pregnant and we're going be called in."

Jo,

What I think your husband needs to realize is that all of those things can happen even if you let her stay in your home. If just keeping a child at home could keep them out of trouble, we wouldn't need this board in the first place.

You know that I absolutely think you are doing the right thing. You have given her a second chance and she has not abided by a single thing that she agreed to in the contract. Letting her stay at home while drinking, drugging, and sleeping with her boyfriend gives her no incentive to make any changes in her life.

The simple fact here is that she is an adult and can choose to live her life any way that she wants. However, if she is playing the adult card then she needs to go live like an adult with all of the adult responsibilities that come with it.

Sending strength and hugs!

~Kathy

 

[hearts and roses]

You are doing great!

Really? Wow - thanks!