Horrible day - need advice

[detachingmother]

Up and Down, that's great that you threw away the Vicodin. It is highly addictive.

There's so many drugs out there, it's hard to keep up.

Then, we all know each person reacts so differently based on their own make-up it's hard to tell what will work and what will not. I know we have tried many things.

Yes, you did good throwing away the Vicodin, especially if he was on Adderall at the time. That mixture is not good for most people.

I don't know, the more I learn the more I despise big pharma. But on the other hand certain drugs for certain folks works wonders.

The best thing to do is probably what you are already doing, watch closely for ANY changes if he's on it. Also, you could count the pills to make sure he's not abusing it, selling it, and if that happens you would be able to take action...take precautions. If Adderall works, then it might be what he needs. Everyone is different. You probably know that though. I'd be on the look out though with that drug.

When I first read the initial post, I thought, hmmmm....maybe this nurse sees something she's not communicating well to the parent. She probably just wanted to try something else first. Maybe during some continuing education class, or whatever, maybe she learned something negative about Adderall. Or, maybe she saw a negative reaction with another patient recently that disturbed her.

I am certainly not defending the nurse, but for whatever reason, she is now against Adderall for your son, as the first option. Even if she was the first to prescribe it. You see, it's my experience that these people make mistakes too and when they do, they most likely aren't going to tell you. Most of them will just "play it off".

For whatever reason, she was thinking Adderall wasn't the best choice now, or she would have prescribed it...maybe, maybe not. I hope it wasn't just because she was having a PMS kind of day. lol

Her actions were poor for sure...maybe she did just think he might abuse it or sell it or whatever. She was unprofessional...I'd chalk it up to a wasted day, and go to a psychiatrist which is usually the best option with the medications. You might have to wait it out for an appointment opening, unfortunately.

I always try to do my own due diligence now, because it's amazing the disconnect between doctors and pharmacists/pharmaceuticals, and how much they really do know. For instance, one example is that Risperdal has been known to very much so cause male breast cancer, and makes males grow female looking breasts (forgot what this is called), but yet they prescribed it to my young adult son, and they continue to prescribe the heck out of it. No, I'm cool with him not wanting to take that. He figured that one out himself and quit. It helped him greatly, we thought. Then we figured out that the Depakote worked well alone and there really was no need to be on Risperdal from the get go. Depakote was enough on it's own to keep him "normal". Geesh...when I am in doubt I ask an experienced pharmacist. lol.

Navigating the drug world is a wild ride.

When you wrote above that he said he would rather die than work or go to school, that to me does indicate a mood problem...maybe it's not so much the focus, he just doesn't have the desire, which then, why would he want to focus? perhaps because he is sad and depressed. I do see Pigless already asked if he was on a mood stabilizer (aka anti depressant). You, too, have a little bit of the which came first?, the chicken or the egg? kind of thing going on.

I wish you luck on your path to find some peace and help. It's been a long journey here.....I just found this forum and am very happy I did.

It's still all so confusing to me some days. I have been around the block and back and still haven't learned a darn thing...how i feel some days.

 

[GoingNorth]

A mood-stabilizer is an anti=epileptic drug that is also used for mood stabilization in bipolar folks.

The Depakote is a mood stabilzer.

Antidepressants work to allow higher baseline amounts of serotonin SSRI, by preventing the neurons from reabsorbing it after release. SNRI antidepressants work on serotonin, but also work on norepinephrine.

Risperadol is an atypical antipsychotic, used in Bipolar for its calming effect, and to deal with any signs of psychosis which aren't uncommon with BiPolar (BP). Antipsychotics work primarily by lowering baseline dopamine levels in the brain.

This is why AAPs can cause extra-pyramidal symptoms such as stiff muscles, tremor, etc.

 

[pigless in VA]

I always try to do my own due diligence now, because it's amazing the disconnect between doctors and pharmacists/pharmaceuticals, and how much they really do know.

The doctors don't know much, because they don't take the multitude of pills they prescribe. They don't spend much time talking with the patients, and they tend to discount life-altering side-effects.

UpandDown,

The nurse with the bad attitude was right about one thing. Adderall does ramp up anxiety. My late husband demanded Adderall of his psychiatrist. He was depressed and had a demanding job. Initially, the Adderall energized him and gave him focus. Long term, though, it was heck. My husband began taking more and more of it, would run out of it early, and then plummet into a deep depression. When he was taking it, there were times where he acted like a cat on a hot tin roof: jumpy, agitated, angry, fearful. If the person is depressed, the relief from the depression is immediate, and, it appeared to me, somewhat intoxicating.

 

[GoingNorth]

Pigless, Adderal is amphetamine salts, so it is addictive, and yes, it does cause euphoria. It also temporarily gets rid of depression.

The problem is that when the addicted user can't get more of it, the depression comes back way worse than before. That's part of the comedown I was referring to.

Many psychiatrists these days won't prescribe Adderal if they can avoid it.

by the way, the reaction your husband had to Adderal shows that he didn't need the drug. My husband tried Adderal when it first came out and it zombified him.

When he needed a longer acting medication than Ritalin, he took Focalin, which is basically time-release Ritalin.

He was so irritable due to dopamine receptor depletion (dopamine is the happy chemical) and because, after running on high doses of speed for several days, he just felt awful. Not sleeping, o not sleeping normally, not eating, not getting normal exercise or tending to hygiene. Lots of body pain from lactic acid build up and the like. So yeah, he was in comedown which is so miserable that speed users usually keep Seroquel or some sort of benzo (Valium, Xanax, etc) on hand to knock them out when coming down.

The usual deal is to sleep for at least a day and then eat and drink every thing they can lay their hands on.

 

[BusynMember]

Adderrall and other adhd stims are also abused by parents who take their cildrens adderrall. This was from a cop friend.

School and its robot like setting is hard for many people for many reasons. Some cant sit still. some have compromised abilities to pay attention and their minds wander. In my case I had such a bad case of school anxiety that I spent most of my school time trying not to panic. My mind was on that, not the learning.

This is why homeschooling and online schools are taking off by leaps and bounds. Charter schools too.

Not everyone can learn well in a conventional setting.


Sorry if I hi jacked the thread.

 

[pigless in VA]

SWOT, I can easily see how school would produce anxiety. Teachers expect a lot from students, any type of aberrant behavior is a problem, and teachers are over-worked and many are impatient. I think it's stressful, and I'm an adult. Add in another stressor like bullying or learning disabilities, and school anxiety would skyrocket.

The school where I work is over crowded, rowdy, and fights occur frequently. There are times when it's downright scary.

 

[detachingmother]

Up and Down, Just wanted to drop another quick line.

When the kids start presenting with depression, listen. When your just getting started with a teen, and it seems like a crazy world inside his head, just listen closely.

Even then, it's hard. But I think he told you exactly what was up. He said he was not happy with the world in his own teen kind of way. I too would be trying a mood stablizer first.

With that said, back when son first started presenting problems, I would not have had a clue. I only am looking back in hindsight and wished I would have done a whole heck of a lot of due diligence.

Just my Opinion. of course...hard to get a total grasp on your son, and can only go by what I read.

The best suggestion I can think of is IF you go with Adderall, I would count, watch, observe as closely as possible to sleep habits, actions, even what friends he spends time with...I would not let him have the bottle of pills, that
's for sure. I would also not let him know I was observing everything so closely...as teens hate to feel like Mommy is watching and waiting to react.

Eyes and Ears have to be open wide, but not so much so that he can sense you all over him...also with any medication, and I am sure you know this but it's worth saying...it takes a few weeks for a mood stabilizer to take full effect and for them to get used to it, so could be tired a lot at first. Patience is a must.

I hope you are having a better day. Dealing with teens can be a rollercoaster ride anyway, but add in adjustment problems and it's tough. Transitioning to teen hood is often as hard on a kid as it is the parents.

I agree with homeschooling too...some kids just don't belong in school enviro. Mine didn't. I could not home school though. No way. I had three kids that I was supporting myself with no outside help whatsoever. Son never finished school at that level, but he did get GED and is smarter than most businessmen I know...he's a genius at marketing, started his own two businesses, when he's in non mental ill mode, there is NO stopping this kid.

So please don't get stuck in a rut of laying all your chips on traditional ways of doing things when dealing with a difficult child. Some of them just simply will not do well or accept societal "norms". If given a chance they find their own ways that way.

Hugs to you. I feel for you. When my Son was 16, I would have had a better chance had I been on top of things better, and followed the suggestions I gave here.

 

[UpandDown]

Of course, I have an update because things are never dull here After a very stressful, high anxiety week I got a call from the school principal that my son had not attended class all week and was finally caught. He often has stomach aches and gets into school late. Those days I just sigh a huge relief when he actually gets out the door so I can some things done before he comes home again. I also find myself checking my phone for the inevitable texts that he is sick and needs to come home. But all week he went and for that I was relieved. Turns out he was going to school but wandering the halls. When principal met with him he broke down and cried. She said it took him some time to get himself together but finally did. He explained to her that he was overwhelmed, couldn't concentrate, that he is aware that he needs to get graduate to have a successful life but doesn't know how he is going to achieve that. She was very supportive and listened to him and offered him that there are options. She asked him if he would like to meet with the counselor and us to discuss ways to get through this. He shared bits and pieces of this with me and I played it cool because nothing ends a conversation quicker than me acting concerned or upset. So now I wait for the meeting with his team. He has a 504 for his anxiety and adhd so that helps a bit with follow through from the school. After having a long weekend to think it over, we have decided that he can't be home on medical leave with a homebound teacher. That was one of the options they suggested. Him being at home and not at school will just create so much stress and chaos. I need to get myself back to work and just can't be worried about him home all day. We are going to push to have them support him in some sort of arrangement AT school. He has started to not eat his lunch at school for some reason and being hungry is certainly not helping. Its tough because he is crying out and needs help but he can be so very difficult. We keep telling him that he needs to open up and let us in so we can help. Baby steps I guess.

 

[UpandDown]

detaching, I was writing at the same time as you! I realize I am probably confusing in my ramblings. My son REFUSES to take any medications, including mood stabilizers. Adderall was the only medication he would take because it was immediate. I have to add that we have told our son that we are open to a different path for him if that is what he needs and wants. But that it has to be something concrete. And we can help him find that. But we need his input. That being home doing nothing is not an option. That if he chooses to get his GED and leave school then he needs to get a job. We have been following the traditional path for years with him and its getting worse and worse. So very close to graduating and yet so far. (He is a junior). I am 100 percent open to a non-traditional path if only I could figure out what that looks like. We pulled him out last fall and he went to wilderness therapy. He attended school there but it was all hands on, small groups, frequent breaks, day started with exercise. He got straight As. That was a short term plan crisis intervention plan.

 

[detachingmother]

Oh ok, i get it more. Don't worry, I ramble non-stop as you can see.

lol I wish we could just slip their medications in their food sometimes. Mine did the same, refused all Tx except Adderall, but that would red flag me now. He actually quit last time treatment, bc doctor wouldn't prescribe him Adderall either.

Don't give up faith. Nothing wrong with non-traditional. Personall, I agree with Dave Ramsey on this...while education is important, unless your son is planning on college and becoming something concrete (Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, etc), that needs hard core skill, it's often a waste of money in our country. JMO I agree with DR here. Much more important to learn to be highly functional and well adjusted.

Even with a GED they can go on to college. Son got his GED, then took himself down to Community College and did very well--AFTER I cut him off. He hated regular school. Basically quit on his own to the point they would not let him return, in a few schools. Not much I could do without moving around to keep him in a place he had no desire to be,....I doubt he did much work in school worth talking about since 8th grade. He was that defiant.

We tend to project on others problems....I hope it doesn't seem I am doing that...just trying to give a different perspective. I knw my son is different from yours and is currently struggling tremendously, but I have to be honest, it's the Adderall I feel that set him on the most destructive path...the addiction that came after beginning to take it...and it was a FAST downward spiral. One that he got out of for awhile. But the lasting effects I think were worth noting here.

 

[pigless in VA]

UpandDown,

Ask the school counselor if there is a mentor program at your school. Ferb's counselor mentioned one when Ferb was a freshman and his uncle had just passed. I chose not to follow through on that particular idea, because Ferb has many friends at school. One of Ferb's highly intelligent and high achieving friends is part of something called the leadership program. Basically, I am thinking if your son were introduced to a buddy at school even under the guise of helping him with school work, that maybe that would help alleviate his anxiety. I'm sure that's why he isn't eating lunch. He gets stressed and can't eat.

When I was in high school, I helped a boy with his classwork who was in and out of mental hospitals. I also helped several Vietnamese girls do homework during study hall. There are kids at school who would be willing to help your son. The counselor or a teacher should be able to help you find them.

Hang in there.