Humph! So Much for the "I want to change my life"

[Hound dog]

Katie and her husband were doing great until the moment the money from biomom entered the picture. Then her husband's attitude totally went to hades immediately and it seems katie's is quickly following suit, sad to say. I know a lot of it is him......but it's katie too. She can always say no, she doesn't have to go along with what he wants.

I majorly POed her husband when I made them return to the motel. This morning I majorly POed him again when I told him NO I was NOT going to drive clear across town simply so he could buy him and katie breakfast at Mc Donalds. I had to tell him twice for him to get the idea I was serious. His kids are eating free breakfast at the school but they think it's ok for them (with no money coming in at all ) to eat breakfast at Mc D's. He pulled this same routine yesterday and I forced him to go to turning point with husband so the trip wouldn't be a total waste.......and all he did was walk into the building and right back out. WTH? Did he seriously think we were going to drive him across town everymorning so he could buy breakfast at Mc D's?? With that sort of logic it's no wonder they've been on the verge of living on the streets for the past 8 yrs and actually been homeless for almost the past 6 months.

Oh, and here's a good one.............Katie doesn't feel well today so plans to go to Job and Family Services is canceled. Excuse me? I'm sick as a dog and got up early to drive your kids to the bus stop and you can't get up to go out to a place that will educate your illiterate husband, get him a GED, and PAY him to do it?? Yet I feel like I've been run over by a truck with this lovely virus passed on to me by her kids and I can get up early, drive to the motel, drive her kids to the bus stop so they can get to school. Okkkk.

And again last night with no clean up after supper. Heck only Alex actually ate all his supper (besides Travis and husband)......the rest picked at it and gave their left overs to Molly. Guess cheeseburger macaroni and peas isn't fancy enough for them. Finally did get the grands to stop asking for desert. Last time Alex kept asking.........I gave them fruit cocktail. lol They haven't asked again. Folks when you're poor desert is for special occasions, I'm not serving up 5 course meals here, get over it.

After supper they conned husband into taking them across town to dollar general with the excuse they needed cough medications. They came out of the store with 3 bags of snacks and bottles of soda. This when I'd told katie when she mentioned they may need to get the kids some snacks at supper that I had the left over big bag of chips you use for sack lunches and such she could take those with her. That won't happen again either.

Been what two weeks? And I'm already fed up. Once that money arrived any desire they had to change vanished. They're back to living in the moment and to hades with the future. Well, that sort of attitude doesn't wash around here.

Not one of my kids here would ever dream of asking me to drive them clear across town for a breakfast sandwich they couldn't afford after I'd gone out of my way to get up early, make a special trip to pick their kids up, and drive them to the bus stop. Actually, they'd never dream to ask me to drive them across town for something so stupid to begin with. And if they did they'd get the same answer. NO

Honestly, they could use what cash they have left and go back to Mo for all I care at this point. I don't see them remaining here long term unless they just run out of cash and flat out get stuck here anyway. I've been treating their arrival as a "visit" from the beginning anyway. I feel for the grandkids. It's not their fault their parents are difficult children and will evidently always be difficult children. All this move did was put it right in their faces of how their cousins are living normal lives while they sit in squalor constantly worrying where the next meal is coming from or if they'll have a place to sleep.

I can't even get katie alone long enough to talk to her. Her husband sticks to her like stink on sh*t.

So POed at both katie and her husband this morning I'm not even sure if I'm going to bother to go out of my way to make the family supper tonight. I suppose if she can feel bad enough not to go see about work I can feel bad enough not to be able to cook supper, or to deal with her kids attempting to rifle through all my things while I'm trying to cook. (a new behavior that popped up yesterday that had me constantly telling them to get their hands out and off of stuff)

Sorry. Just disgusted.

 

[DaisyFace]

Lisa--

That really stinks. I'm so sorry this is happening...

 

[CrazyinVA]

I'm so sorry Guess the honeymoon is over.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

I am so so sorry. So much for hope.

 

[KTMom91]

I'm so sorry, Lisa. Sending hugs, kleenex, and chicken soup. Feel better.

 

[busywend]

Bummer. All you can do is try to tell them that since they are throwing away money, that could be much better spent, you can not help them anymore. Hopefully, it will sink in before they are penniless again. Can you offer to hold the money? I know it seems ridiculous, but maybe they just can not help it.

 

[Fran]

Man that's rough. Maybe Katie needs to make dinner for the family. Even if it's at your home with your stuff. She is really pushing her luck isn't she?
You have my sympathies. Sucking the life out of everyone around them is their strong suit. Maybe they should live with bio mom.

 

[DammitJanet]

Lisa...doesnt surprise me in the least. PM coming if I can get it to work. Well that doesnt work...sigh.

I recently got a small sum of money money for Cory. I havent told him about it at all. I know if I do he will blow it in no time flat. I am using it to purchase things he actually needs....a small very used mobile home, a scooter, some clothes for both him and Keyana, food, etc. He doesnt have a clue. He may be extremely ticked off at me when he finds out what I have done but there isnt a dang thing he can do about it. I have seen what happens when he gets a some money...he blows it. I am not letting that happen this time. Number one, I am not letting Mandy blow the money on frivolous junk either. A place for them to live is number one. I also think he can spend a few dollars on his kid. She needed winter clothes.

Funny, I wanted to move him to a different town but he is too scared to do it. Sigh.

 

[Hound dog]

Janet that's what my Mom wanted me to do..........take the money and hold it for them, only let them use it for necessities and that place to live. Sounds like a good idea, but like I told my Mom, she's 30 and he's 44 and it's high time they grow up........if either of them are capable. I'm not going to be around forever.

And if most of this money blowing business is her husband as I think it is.........well, time for Katie to face the truth of that.

Her husband will blow you away, I swear. I've never seen an adult act so child-like and I come from a family full of full blown difficult children. I've seen katie shop......she's careful, she debates how much they really need something.......when she and I went together she splurged on a belt for herself....it cost all of 50 cents on clearance. But if her husband wants something no matter how trivial.......he is relentless, he will talk about nothing else, he'll get up in her face, he'll stomp around and pout and carry on like an overgrown 2 yr old. Ridiculous. Watched this behavior over a 2 liter of soda...........and it was 100 times worse when both husband and I refused to give him use of our computers. This morning husband says he allowed Evan (who should've been seat belted in) to reach up behind husband while he was driving and yank on his hair. He said nothing. Most likely snickered while katie corrected him. I'm guessing this is retaliation for refusing the trips to Mc D's. Oh, and husband said katie didn't even mention breakfast.......so I still don't know if her husband was doing that without her knowledge. But her husband pouted (literally) until katie asked her dad if he'd stop and get the "man" coffee. ugh

I'd like to attempt to get katie alone and just talk to her. Which like I said, will not be easy as he sticks to her like stink on sh*t. Nichole is coming to town tomorrow........maybe easy child doesn't work.......and we can take her out to one of our lunches making clear to him "men" are not invited. Can imagine his reaction to that one. lol It's the only way I can think of though to get her by herself so we can talk to her and see what she wants and how badly she wants it. Because her husband is already hard at work sabotaging it for her.

Katie has an IEP meeting for Alex this morning. Which means we have to not only take them......but we have to watch Evan, the devil child from hades. *shudder* I've watched all their behavior concerning this child and ALL of them relent to him to avoid his wrath which is destructive and violent. Katie is the only one who attempts to discipline him and believe me, unless you do a psychiatric hold on him, it's not happening. I've watched him be openly defiant to both parents, dare them to do anything about it. Dad doesn't........Mom tries but it's an all out battle of wills which often she doesn't win. *sigh* Spankings don't cause this child to blink........and I've watched her husband swat him hard enough I'd have yelped had it been me. (1 swat that was justified for what he was doing) Time out goes right over his head. He simply doesn't care. Taking things away doesn't work........he doesn't have anything to take away. ughhhh Frustrating. Only good thing is he is afraid of his Nana. I don't raise my voice, I don't give him the counting thing.......I just move fast and stop the behavior, explaining to him why, and give him the Momma look. But even I've had to use the psychiatric hold on him once already. And that for me is an utter last resort to prevent them from hurting themselves or destroying property. Yep. I know where those migraines of katies come from.

OMG I don't want to watch him during that IEP meeting. And after this morning husband is afraid he'll strangle him if he's chosen as baby sitter. lol

But the only thing left I can think to do is to simply talk to katie. If she really does want to change her family will back her 100 percent. I want to make that clear to her. But we will not bend to her husband's bullying behavior and his over grown pouting, we're not their taxi service for frivolous trips all over town. We will not rescue her from his behavior if he manages to bully, goad, and tantrum his way into spending that money her Mom sent to her pay for the motel and they wind up on the streets. The very first thing she has to do is learn to stand up for herself and her kids when it comes to this "man". It's going to be the hardest thing she's ever done because I strongly suspect (and have suspected) domestic violence and katie runs from confrontation. After that the rest will be cake in comparison.

Katie told me she was ready and had basically ended their relationship in the shelter. But her husband had been relentless.......and worked hard to show her he was willing to change, then convinced her to come here because we have the program here that will teach him to read and get his GED.....plus he knew how badly she wanted to come here.

Bet he's beginning to regret that idea of his. lol

Her husband tries his "tough talk" around sister in law and Nichole's boyfriend and they just can't help themselves.....they snicker at him. sister in law would've said something confrontational by now but he's practicing thinking first and speaking instead of just saying stuff off the top of his head. lol I've been pretty impressed because katies husband makes it awfully hard not to say something.

Nichole is just waiting for him to pull something around her, as is easy child, so they can blast him. He avoids both of them.......he's as scared of them as he is me. lol

Unfortunately though, he has katie believing his "tough talk"........afterall she's had it drummed into her head from age 14. *sigh*

So I guess will give it one more whole hearted shot and snatch her away one day for lunch just to talk. I'll have to coach the girls carefully (especially Nichole) on what they say about katie's husband. Other than that..........if she doesn't respond to that.........there is nothing more we can do. We'll have to focus on just making the lives of the grands a bit more pleasant and giving them views of "normal" family life. Hoovers but I can't force her to see what a loser she is married to, she has to see it for herself and decide to do something about it.

Oh, and they were finally accepted for food stamps. So meals here, except the occasional invite to dinner will stop as soon as her card arrives in the mail. Which will greatly help our budget.

 

[Fran]

Truthfully Lisa, changing katie's difficult child behavior as she says she will, is not going to be an instant change. It is going to have to be taught to her and reinforced over and over.
If she received money the thing she should do is offer you and husband something for the effort you put in. Even if it's 20.00 and you refuse it, it's what reasonable adults do. You don't take something for nothing. Sitting her down and teaching her how to budget so every penny stretches so she isn't without food or clothing for the children and herself is a good first step. Talking to her about changing her choices is how she may change but to think they wake up and say today, I won't act the way I did for 30 some years doesn't happen. It's a series of small steps. It's like an alcoholic. Even if he is at the bottom of a pit and wants to change he must work the steps and make changes, knowing he will fall from time to time and to start each day fresh. Katie needs to outline what small changes she can make to keep to a budget and to regain some control over her kids.
After saying that, they I would tell them they must pay you 10.00 for every meal they eat at your house and contribute 5.00 for gas. Save it for them when they are in dire straits or keep it or use it in a way that seems fit. Teaching her that everyone needs an emergency cushion is a good thing, instead of blowing it on nonsense. Things go bad for everyone in life but planning for it with even 5.00 hidden away is how you avoid financial and family catastrophe.
No free rides for anyone. You have been generous and helpful but you must teach her that despite being family, she is using your kindness. It creates feelings of being taken for granted. in you and your kids. She must pay her own way with the money bio gave Katie. She must budget out that money in a way that gets the best use out of it and she must write her bio a thank you note that says what she plans to do with it. She should write you and husband a thank you also. It helps putting words down more for the writer the recipient.
If they want to be around family then they have to contribute to the family unit in some way. If her husband likes it, he can participate, if not he can leave.
Katie will decide which is crucial for the well being of the children or being husband's rug, where he can wipe his feet on her.
She must find a job. Everyone goes to school or works unless they are bums. No one is supposed to get a free ride. What does she want to be? Obviously, her husband is a bum and has taught her that it's more fun to live off of public charity and beg family than to do the work and reap the benefits.
Even Travis with his multitude of disabilities always works and goes to school. What possible excuse could either of them have?
Hope Katie, takes the reins and asks how to be a contributing member of the family, society and her kids lives. If she asks how, then you can teach. One day at a time.

 

[busywend]

Honestly, nobody has probaby ever told her husband that is he acting like a child. He needs to be told that. So, to further Fran's point that they will not change unless they are told what needs to be changed.....and shown how to change it....they will end up in the same place. So, her husband needs to learn that he is the adult and father of these children (whether he is with their mother or not - this will be good for him to get at some point). Grow up NOW. It is way past time.

So, sister in law should not hold back - he should tell him exactly what he thinks. Maybe it will help Katie see clearly, too.

 

[Hound dog]

3D telling katie's husband he's behaving like a child would go right over the "mans" head. Trust me on this. He is seriously developmentally delayed at the very least, and not very bright on top of that. And I am being kind as for the most part I don't think it's entirely his fault. He over compensates for this by trying to be a "tough guy" (which he's not in the least) and endlessly bragging about his knowledge of computers, which to anyone who really does know about computers.......is well, nothing really. He frustrates poor Travis to the point where the boy has started avoiding him......and Travis will talk for hours about computers.

As for teaching Katie to budget ect. Uh, no. I'm not going there. I may sound hard nosed, but I've been there done that with her 10 yrs ago and I'm not going there this time around. It was their idea to come here to turn their lives around, not mine. At their current ages it is completely up to them. Figuring out that a roof over your head comes 1st, bills 2nd, and food 3rd before anything else simply is not that difficult. As I told my own Mom.........I am not going to hold katie"s hand and walk her through this. If she really wants it she will learn and learn quickly. If not, nothing will change.

If I don't sound empathetic, it is because I'm not. If you've managed to live on the brink of homelessness for 10 yrs yet still have failed to get the 3 basic necessities come first above anything else.........nothing I could "teach" them is going to change that. You see, I have an advantage most people don't in this dept. I've spent almost 30 yrs with a man who thinks the same way these kids do. And he didn't get it until I totally forced it on him, no help, sink or swim.

I budgeted our money down to the last cent for 20 some years. I hid money. I tried every trick in the book. And husband would find a way to under mine me at every turn. This is what katie has been up against with both her biomom and her husband for years, which each of them blaming the other for the spent cash. She's dumped biomom. She for whatever reason decided to give her husband a 2nd chance. So either she is going to get to the point where she is so fed up with the life he's forced her to live that she says Enough! it's either this way or the highway..........or she will forever be stuck in this groove. Sadly, unlike her Dad, I don't think her husband is capable of ever being responsible. Maybe he will shock me, but from watching his behavior I really doubt it. When I say he is an overgrown child I mean that literally, not just behavior. Argh! I feel like filming him then you'd go ahhh hah! lol Cause seriously, you can't miss it. I keep having to remind myself that the guy isn't younger than Travis.

So, bottom line for Katie is going to be what Katie wants. If she doesn't want to spend the rest of her life on the constant verge of homelessness she is going to have to face the reality that her husband most likely will never be able to function as a responsible adult. Once she's done that she has to ask herself : Am I strong enough to keep all money out of his hands and keep the bills paid ect on my own? Do I want to spend the rest of my life warring with him over the fact he can't handle the money ect, while constantly trying to out think him on ways to keep any money out of his hands?

Because that is the reality.

I know, I've lived it already. I was lucky. While my husband is also a difficult child, he had the capacity to learn and accept responsibility concerning money, he'd just always refused to do it until I drew the line in the sand and he knew I meant it. He's not perfect, but our bills stay paid 99 percent of the time and food is on the table.

Katie will never be able to make the tough decisions she has to make if I or anyone else makes this remotely easy for her. She knows how to budget. She knows how to manage a bank acct. She knows how to save for an emergency. I taught her those things 10 yrs ago.

There is strength in this girl that she does not have a clue she possesses. I know, I've seen glimpses of it several times just in the short time she's been here. She is a difficult child, but she is intelligent woman and a responsible parent. She made me proud in Alex's IEP meeting today. Good as any warrior Mom on this board. She is just stuck in victim mode and fearful of confrontation........and sadly if she doesn't snap out of that she doesn't stand a chance against her difficult child husband. She lacks confidence in her own strength / intelligence. Her husband preys on that and uses it, knowing or fearful if she improves herself she's going to see him for what he really is and dump him like a hot rock.

I still see in katie the strong desire to change. I'm glad because I was worried she'd slid completely back into old habits. The refusal to go to Mc D's got her attention. Her husband was pouting at supper over needing soda at the motel. Katie finally asked me if I knew of some place that sold it cheaper than dollar general.......(which is also clear across town)......and I did because Travis buys his that way from a local grocer not far from our house. 75 cents for 2 liter or 1.00 for a 3 liter. Not bad, and I'm not going to go bonkers over them having something to drink other than water. Supper was here again tonight, too. And will be tomorrow night.

My Mom thought I was irresponsible when I "allowed" easy child to move out right after hs graduation. She thought I was out of my mind when I "let" Travis go off to college, although she did help fund it. She thought I was cold hearted when I gave Nichole her move out date and showed her the door. When discussing katie the other night she though I was a witch with a capitol B, until I reminded her that when I'd left husband she did not swoop in and help me. I learned to survive in shelters on my own, and I learned fast on how to live on a whopping 500 bucks a month all by myself. And along the way I learned that I was stronger than I ever believed myself to be, smarter than I ever thought I was........after that, husband never stood a chance. Ok, so I though my Mom was a witch with a capitol B at the time........but it wasn't long that I figure out she'd done the best thing in the world for me.

The rules I developed for myself for dealing with adult children come from my grandmother and from hard lessons learned in dealing with katie 10 yrs ago. I learned from the mistakes I made with her then (holding her hand, being overly helpful ect) and I didn't make them with the other three. Now I am following the same rules with her. She has the tools, she has the knowledge, she just has to put them to use........just as her sibs did.

I do still want to have that lunch with her. I'd like to have a clearer picture of her goals and dreams. I'd like to have some grown up discussion. And I'd like to let her know.......although I haven't quite figured out just how to do it yet.......that we know most of what is currently going on is her husband's attempt to sabotage her relationship with us and we're not letting him. (the pumpkin carving family gathering was a neon sign of what he's up to) Nope. We won't hold her hand and we won't do it for her. We will support her and help her, but not cripple her. If she wants advice we'll be there to give it, but know she may not take it. And we can't make her decisions for her.

Does that make sense?

 

[DammitJanet]

Crystal.

 

[busywend]

Yes - it sure does. You are a very smart woman!!