FWIW, I just saw this story and thought of this thread. It's one family's account of what happened when the mother looked for help. For them it backfired. I guess the lesson is that when you choose to involve governmental agencies in your child's health issues, you involve governmental agencies in your child's health issues. You can't just focus on the outcome you hope for, you must consider all the possible outcomes before you make that choice.
Hypothetically speaking...
- Thread starter klmno
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klmno
Active Member
Thanks for posting that- what a sad situation! I find it interesting that the very people who "take over" then claim that the parent has a "my way or no way" attitude. It is the authorities who dictate everything and refuse to make it a team effort. When we as parents need "help", I think we sometimes believe that they can and will provide assistance. At least, that is what I used to think. Now, I see it as- bringing them in means turning it all over to them. It is their way or no way and any parent not willing to go along with that, even when there is reason to believe that their way is not in the best interest of the child, is reported as "uncooperative". They use a systemmatic approach to kids- they don't seem to care if it's the best answer for an individual or not.
Even the GAL- I thought she was there to advocate for difficult child. No- she was there to be an objective party between the defense attny and prosecutor. And to see if the judge should order me to do something, apparently. She never really did anything that resulted in difficult child getting more or better care. She made assumptions and followed the systemmatic method that the county usually does.
Even the GAL- I thought she was there to advocate for difficult child. No- she was there to be an objective party between the defense attny and prosecutor. And to see if the judge should order me to do something, apparently. She never really did anything that resulted in difficult child getting more or better care. She made assumptions and followed the systemmatic method that the county usually does.
witzend
Well-Known Member
I do know what you mean about worrying about future wives and children. I can only say that I am glad that M hasn't found anyone. L is too thoroughly involved in the material things that her boyfriend who wants no children provides to her to get pregnant. She also knows first hand from my situation that young women with no means of support don't generally get to keep their babies when the fathers who make good money decide that they "fell in love with the baby when I saw it and decided it would be better off with me."
I just hope that if she really wants children that she will leave him before it's too late. And it goes without saying, that she will stop being such a materialistic fool before she has children.
klmno, is he eligible for the program the judge wanted to put him in now? It seems to me that he was only a few weeks - or was it months - away from being that age. I can't really remember the program or whether you thought it was appropriate. Is it the carrot, or is it the stick?
I hope that things will settle and become more clear for everyone quickly. This is an awful thing for all of you to go through.
I just hope that if she really wants children that she will leave him before it's too late. And it goes without saying, that she will stop being such a materialistic fool before she has children.
klmno, is he eligible for the program the judge wanted to put him in now? It seems to me that he was only a few weeks - or was it months - away from being that age. I can't really remember the program or whether you thought it was appropriate. Is it the carrot, or is it the stick?
I hope that things will settle and become more clear for everyone quickly. This is an awful thing for all of you to go through.
klmno
Active Member
Thanks, Witz- and Steely- I appreciate your post, too!! As far as legalities- difficult child doesn't qualify for the program that the judge wanted yet. It will be about another 6 mos. But, she might not offer it again. Right now, he stands to be committed to the state if he ever gets in trouble again. The program she wanted a few mos ago is better than that- but not musch. It is detention, but with a little structured learning about life. Really, it isn't much but it is better than the short-term detention (where difficult child learned how to make dice out of toilet paper and all about different types of guns) and state commitmetment (where they get raped and get sicker than anything we parents have lived with).
It amazes me how they want to tell us how to raise our kids, yet they are the ones who make it into an "all or nothing" situation. Either he is perfect- requiring no further legal intervention- or he isn't perfect- meaning he automatically goes to the state. The reality, of course, is that he will be in between. But, even if he qualified for what the judge originally wanted- I have NO say-so in it. The most I can do is ask the defense attny (which I can no longer afford) to ask the judge to consider it. The judge has been teetering between "is this a kid worth saving or not" for a while now- I don't think I can bank on her giving him anything I request in the future.
About the violence- there have been other signs. Two years ago difficult child hit me- I called police- they filed charges. He was convicted. Later, difficult child told me how he felt about things- he said he had felt that because I had always told him how lovable and smart he was, etc., that when he realized that his dad had turned his back on him and had never loved him, he felt like I had set him up and lied to him. He was so angry with me. Truthfully, I don't think he has ever gotten all of this out. All the times that he has acted erratic (illegal or wierd- whatever you want to call it) has been times when he felt the least bit of rejection- even if no one else would take it that way. Fri. night, after I thought about it, I realized that I had told him I was so disappointed that he had eaten so many snacks that week (not good but his eating all the snacks was not a criminal event) that I was not going to play a game with him after all. That could have been the trigger - you would have to know him. He is not as mature as most normal poeple would assume given the trouble he has been in.
Then- there are the other "signs" that something is wrong. He periodically, in phases, has gotten up during the night- gotten a kitchen knife and stabbed the walls. He has written illegible things on the bathroom mirror with my lipstick- he has done wierd things. I'm not an expert on this and clearly, I am a biased Mom, but it is my gut reaction that this isn't ODD or just trying to kill me- he could have already tried. He has never come to my room during the night and done anything- much less tried to harm me. But something must be going on- either he is hallucinating or he just has a tremendous amount of hurt and anger that is eating him up and he doesn't know a better way to let it out. If he was doing this to try to hurt someone, he would have made a clear effort by now, in my humble opinion. I can't help but think it comes out in phases, during the middle of the night, because he really doesn't want to give into that temptation. My gut instinct tells me that he really is that hurt and really does feel that bad and really is trying that hard. And I so far, haven't found a counselor that we can get to that point with. And I soooooo want to help my son.
And if I'm reading this wrong- if I'm enabling, then I need to know that too. Not from someone who wants to hang me for it, but from someone who understands it is out of being an ignorant biased Mom- not an idiot.
I hope someone understands this...
It amazes me how they want to tell us how to raise our kids, yet they are the ones who make it into an "all or nothing" situation. Either he is perfect- requiring no further legal intervention- or he isn't perfect- meaning he automatically goes to the state. The reality, of course, is that he will be in between. But, even if he qualified for what the judge originally wanted- I have NO say-so in it. The most I can do is ask the defense attny (which I can no longer afford) to ask the judge to consider it. The judge has been teetering between "is this a kid worth saving or not" for a while now- I don't think I can bank on her giving him anything I request in the future.
About the violence- there have been other signs. Two years ago difficult child hit me- I called police- they filed charges. He was convicted. Later, difficult child told me how he felt about things- he said he had felt that because I had always told him how lovable and smart he was, etc., that when he realized that his dad had turned his back on him and had never loved him, he felt like I had set him up and lied to him. He was so angry with me. Truthfully, I don't think he has ever gotten all of this out. All the times that he has acted erratic (illegal or wierd- whatever you want to call it) has been times when he felt the least bit of rejection- even if no one else would take it that way. Fri. night, after I thought about it, I realized that I had told him I was so disappointed that he had eaten so many snacks that week (not good but his eating all the snacks was not a criminal event) that I was not going to play a game with him after all. That could have been the trigger - you would have to know him. He is not as mature as most normal poeple would assume given the trouble he has been in.
Then- there are the other "signs" that something is wrong. He periodically, in phases, has gotten up during the night- gotten a kitchen knife and stabbed the walls. He has written illegible things on the bathroom mirror with my lipstick- he has done wierd things. I'm not an expert on this and clearly, I am a biased Mom, but it is my gut reaction that this isn't ODD or just trying to kill me- he could have already tried. He has never come to my room during the night and done anything- much less tried to harm me. But something must be going on- either he is hallucinating or he just has a tremendous amount of hurt and anger that is eating him up and he doesn't know a better way to let it out. If he was doing this to try to hurt someone, he would have made a clear effort by now, in my humble opinion. I can't help but think it comes out in phases, during the middle of the night, because he really doesn't want to give into that temptation. My gut instinct tells me that he really is that hurt and really does feel that bad and really is trying that hard. And I so far, haven't found a counselor that we can get to that point with. And I soooooo want to help my son.
And if I'm reading this wrong- if I'm enabling, then I need to know that too. Not from someone who wants to hang me for it, but from someone who understands it is out of being an ignorant biased Mom- not an idiot.
I hope someone understands this...
Funny how when the fathers walk out, it's the mothers who get hit with the anger. But there's no one else.
Whenever my son and I are together, I can count on there being a long conversation about how he never felt like his father loved him. Sometimes we have those conversations on the phone. My son is ten years older than your son and my ex walked out when my son was over 18 (but still not functioning). It is hard on kids when they believe/realize that a parent doesn't care....or never cared.
Could be that you're being tested with some of this. Is he trying to see if your love is unconditional? Does he feel unworthy of your love and support and is trying to drive you away? Is he trying to quit you before you quit him?
Has he talked about his feelings about his father with any doctor or therapist?
Whenever my son and I are together, I can count on there being a long conversation about how he never felt like his father loved him. Sometimes we have those conversations on the phone. My son is ten years older than your son and my ex walked out when my son was over 18 (but still not functioning). It is hard on kids when they believe/realize that a parent doesn't care....or never cared.
Could be that you're being tested with some of this. Is he trying to see if your love is unconditional? Does he feel unworthy of your love and support and is trying to drive you away? Is he trying to quit you before you quit him?
Has he talked about his feelings about his father with any doctor or therapist?
TerryJ2
Well-Known Member
Oh, I am so sorry. The stabbing the walls bit and writing on the mirrors ... all I can say is that you are astute and lucky at the same time.
I would like to feel that if he were going to do something, he would have done it by now.
I do believe you want to help him. I wish I could do something.
I would like to feel that if he were going to do something, he would have done it by now.
I do believe you want to help him. I wish I could do something.
klmno
Active Member
Sara, that is what the psychiatric who did his testing mentioned. (it was 2 1/2 years ago) I wasn't thrilled with the way she handled some things but the psychiatrists own the office, so maybe that has omething to do with it. She didn't put it in her written report, but she told me at the follow-up that there was a big possibility that difficult child was breaking the law in ways that he KNEW were completely out of acceptance for me because subconsciously, he had to know if I would love him and be there no matter what. In a way, it sounds like pscho-babble. In another way, I think there has to be some truth to it. My son has always been a handful, but he had never broken the law before he learned of his father's actions. He was fairly secure before that and I'm sure he knew of the things that I would never approve of. He never showed signs of major depression before that. And, about the same time that he learned of his father's decisions, we had a family friend die from a chemo treatment for breast cancer, I had a suspect mammo and had been telling him that if it was cancerous, I would have chemo. He had been asking about who would take take iof him, where would he live, etc. During this period, he was acting out at school and teachers were threatening him with detention, Special Education classes, etc. They were telling him that he was just bad. He told me himself that he must be bad because the teachers told him that and his dad never wanted him and bad things happened in his life and to people he loved. This is when he started giving away his toys and almost set himself on fire.
My son is not better than anyone else- but he is worth saving- I feel it in my heart and bones and blood. It just seems that sometimes profs won't listen.
My son is not better than anyone else- but he is worth saving- I feel it in my heart and bones and blood. It just seems that sometimes profs won't listen.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
It does sound like anger but not hallucinations. People can have lots of anger because of things that happen to them in childhood. I still dont think this needs to escalate into a police matter. It can be handled as a family deal at this point. He just needs to know that you are the mom and arent going to let him go but so far. He may be testing you to see how far you will go, how afraid you are, how sick you really think he is. If you sit back and wring your hands, it just makes him feel more out of control. Kind of like if he had cancer and you suddenly threw out all the rules he might conclude he was dying. That would scare him to death.
I would set firm rules and tell him he is not going to do certain things or his life will stop. Maybe read The defiant Child. I liked that much better than the explosive child.
I would set firm rules and tell him he is not going to do certain things or his life will stop. Maybe read The defiant Child. I liked that much better than the explosive child.
klmno
Active Member
Thanks, Janet! You bring up some good points. Fortunately, I think he knows that I'm not one to sit and wring my hands no matter what. Even though I was pretty shaken this weekend, I didn't wear that on my sleeve, so to speak. I do need to get a "plan" that I can stick to about exactly what to do if this happens again.
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