I am really scared for difficult child

[Kjs]

I am worried, sad....Making myself sick.

I called psychiatrist Wednesday morning on my way to the class I had to take. I left a message on HIS answering machine. Told him about difficult child, told him difficult child says adderall works like it is suppose to, he feels more focused, can get his work done, but is extremely tired. Exhausted.
Told him about how scared difficult child is. Feeling of nothing being real. Sad.
Also asked if he could start a medication to treat anxiety, asked him to leave a message on my phone as I am not available until after 4:30 due to class.

Went out to the car at break and Dr. called 2x's. Only said Sorry I missed you I'll call again. So I called back left another message that I am in class will be available at lunch from 12 - 1pm then after 4:30.

Checked at lunch. Two more calls. SAme message. No call during lunch.

Went back to class, this time with my phone on vibrate. He calls at 2pm. I walked out of class to speak to him. He called it "depersonalization" He said he wanted to start the Strattera. I am just so upset. Strattera doesn't help anxiety!!!!!

Then I talked to him some more. He said prozac or paxil would be the drug of choice, but difficult child will not take it. (side affect = weight gain)

So he said we tried Lexapro in March of 07 with no good outcome. But we will try again. Instead of starting at 10mg's, break it in half and start at 5mgs each morning.

I felt a little better.

Thursday I had to go back to class. Didn't work my normal midnight shift. This would be my normal day off but I was going to class.

difficult child has difficulty sleeping, always has. Tough to wake up. Was real cheery (husband too). Got him up and in the shower. He was extremely tired and sad. Wouldn't eat. I got his adderall out and the half of Lexapro. He took the adderall and refused to take the Lexapro. OMG. We started fighting. I was saying take it, he was yelling NO. I tried to reason, he refused. I was SO, SO upset. He doesn't understand I am terrified of losing him and I am trying to do what I can to help him feel better and he won't take it.
Since he was born if I say black he says white. Anything to go against me. Anything. This time I am fighting for his life. I am scared.

We fought all the way to school. He said he won't take it. I told him he isn't going anywhere because I am afraid and I need him to be supervised. So hanging out with his druggie friends isn't going to happen.
(meanwhile the neighbor boy who I give a ride to school is sitting in the back seat. He is one of the druggie friends) difficult child TELLS us this. He tells us everyone does drugs. What they do, the drinking. He goes with the neighbor only if he doesn't do drugs. One time he walked up to McDonalds with him and a few others. difficult child called a short time later to be picked up because they were doing drugs. He went with only if they agreed not to.
difficult child is afraid of this.

I feel hopeless. I told difficult child I would do what I had to do to help him. If that meant inpatient, that is what will happen. We were both crying when we got to school. Needless to say I learned nothing during class.

When I got home he was on the computer. AS usual. He walked out by me and asked if he takes the Lexapro would I not be angry with him. I told him it was too late in the day, and explained why I wanted him to take it and just gave him a giant hug. He said he didn't care if it kept him up, he took it.

I know he had a good day at school. Hung out with a teacher most of the day because he had no missing work (smile). Finals today and Monday. Quarter ends. One more to go.

I am in contact with principal. Gave him the side effects of Lexapro. He asked if there is anything he can do for me. If he should talk to him...

I just checked his Myspace right now. He says "trust me, I am NOT ok" and he is sad. I just showed husband. I am sitting hear crying. I don't know what to do. He is fighting this "unreal" feeling but he isn't winning.

I am SO scared.

Because I know difficult child looks everything up on the computer. I told him to look up "depersonalization" Maybe he did and that is why he agreed to take the Lexapro. Although....difficult child has been talking about Paxil. ????

I looked up depersonalization too during break yesterday. easy child was right. I DID this to him. OMG....All the fighting. I lose control so easy for so many years. We butt heads our whole life. Just ME. He has made me cry since he could talk (15 months). I get so sad/angry I blurt out things I shouldn't of. then I read what causes depersonalization. OMG. It is me. How can I live with myself.

 

[Stella]

It sounds as if you are being REALLY hard on yourself Kjs -
Please excuse my ignorance but what is depersonalisation? I've never heard of it...also what is Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD)?..

 

[SRL]

Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) is general anxiety disorder.

Sorry, I only have a minute here--my heart goes out to you.

If he's always had problems, has he had a sleep study done? I'm seeing more and more research that equates the importance of sleep for both mental and physical health.

Also, if he is seriously not sleeping I would consider it a mental health crisis and have him hospitalized.

I've never heard of Strattera as directly improving anxiety. Has anyone else here heard that from professionals or experienced that?

 

[smallworld]

Strattera is FDA-approved for the treatment of adhd in adults and children over age 6. Strattera is also used off-label for the treatment of treatment-resistant depression. Side effects to Strattera include sedation, fatigue, decreased appetite, insomnia, dizziness, ANXIETY, agitation, aggression and irritability.

Adderall could very well be INCREASING your difficult child's depressive thoughts and tendencies. In your shoes, I would be asking the psychiatrist to discontinue Strattera until his mood is more stable with other medications.

 

[susiestar]

I think you are jumping to the conclusion that YOU did this to your son very prematurely. This seems to be a complex disorder. I get the impression that the real origin of this is NOT KNOWN. There is a neurobiological basis for this. This article (http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Depersonalization-disorder.html ) gives a very good explanation of this.

Most of the causes seem to be stress and anxiety. Your son is in a very advanced high school where he seems to have been feeling a LOT of stress about the classes and fitting in. This has been a problem since early in the school year.

This is a HUGE deal to teens. No matter how they act with the not turning things in, etc... they really DO care. But when they get overwhelmed many of our kids shut down and just CANNOT face the problem - can't get an overall picture, can't break it into manageable chunks, can't dive in. They do something else, anything else to avoid this. But the work he is not doing hangs over his head, rather like a giant pendulum of doom.

The relationship between you and husband is part of his stress and anxiety. You say that husband stopped speaking to you after difficult child was born. This has likely created a HUGE amount of stress on your son. He knows it isn't normal. Especially now, when he can see other parents and adults in relationships. He KNOWS. he also feels the stress of the emotional abandonment from your husband. He is probably TERRIFIED that you or husband will stop speaking to HIM. If you think about it, it is a logical worry.

difficult child sees husband treating you like you are not a "real" person. Your feelings and desires are totally discounted from what you have been telling us. How can he NOT wonder if that will happen to him, or if he will do that to his girlfriend or lover or wife?

Here is another article on the causes of depersonalization: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/depersonalization/AN00595

This is from the Mayo Clinic. In NO place does it say that the mother is responsible. If the conditions in your home were bad enough to constitute severe emotional abuse (which I doubt very seriously) then BOTH you and husband are to blame. NOT JUST YOU!!! husband bears a LOTof responsibility in this. HE is the one who refuses to talk to you. Anyone would be upset and yell if this happened and you couldn't work it out in therapy.

This may be the result of the emotional abuse you have suffered for years, but you do not bear all the responsibility for this.

I think the key here is that you need to stop blaming yourself and focus on how to HELP your son.

What did husband say when you explained this to him? Is HE willing to work on the family situation in a serious and committed way to help his son? Or is he blaming you?

Can you see how husband has a big role in this?

Once again I BEG you to get counseling for the emotional abuse you have suffered all these years. difficult child also needs help for this. A DV center may be very much able to counsel you BOTH. difficult child needs to learn that what he sees husband do and say to you is NOT NORMAL. He also needs to learn and internalize that HE is not going to disappear from his father's consciousness, that even if husband stops speaking to him he will still be there.

Stop hogging all the blame for yourself. I don't think blame is needed, but if you feel it is please put it where it belongs.

I think you need an action plan for medications and therapy. You also need a new psychiatrist as soon as possible. how is it coming along with the therapist looking at the list of docs? Any progress? I would avoid strattera as an anti anxiety medication. I think the drug reps are pushing this as a "new use" because strattera may be running out of patent time. If the company can find a new use they can extend the patent and keep generics off the market. It reminds me of when they were pushing neurontin as a "cure-all" for everything.

One of the articles lists medications that are helpful in treating this.

I am sorry this is so long. I just worry so much about you. It is not healthy to blame yourself this much. easy child is a child with a little bit of knowledge that he used like a sledgehammer to hurt you and belittle you. PLEASE see his angry words for what they were - just plain WRONG.

We are here for you. I hope this is something that difficult child will comply with the treatment for.

Hugs,

Susie

 

[Kjs]

difficult child is not taking Strattera. He started Adderall ten days ago. He says it helps alot. He says he knows it helps. Just doesn't like being so tired.

He brought his grades up 1+ letter grades in a week. However this is his pattern. Starts off the quarter with all A's. Does no work and grades fall to D's and F's. Then works hard the last two weeks and brings them up. Since this is the end of the quarter (finals today and MOnday) I am not sure the if it is adderall or just his pattern. He DOES say it helps.

Then anxiety - omg, we have fought this his entire life. When he was six a neigbor man died in his sleep. difficult child wouldn't eat...SIX WEEKS because he thought he would die. FIFTH grade the counselor brought him home in the middle of the day. SAid he was having an anxiety attack. Didn't know where he was or what was going on. difficult child requested hospitalization. Contacted a psychiatrist - there were no open beds. He started lamictal and things were great except school/homework. He stopped the lamictal the summer before 8th grade. difficult child always worried about things, not like the past six months though. Dying. Total fear of dying. Since December the feeling things are not real PLUS dying. Nothing is fun anymore. Doesn't want to leave or do things he use to. NOW I am scared.

He agreed last night to take lexapro. Please pray it helps. He talks to people online. He said it is a teen forum. He said others he talks to feel the same and it will go away. Staff at school is absolutely wonderful.

difficult child/homework - this has been a fight since the day he started school. Even first grade. Yes, I agree he tries to fit in. Voice hasn't changed, on the short side. With me 6ft, but dad about 5'9...he takes after dad. short and stocky. But he DID grow 2 inches in the last month. So now on to another question. Are hormones finally kicking in? If so, how much of this is hormones?

husband - he has not even known I exist since difficult child was born. BUT...difficult child is HIS entire world. His LIFE revolves around difficult child. He would do anything in the world for difficult child. I have been sharing with him these things. I told him what therapist said about getting him to survive. husband said he knows that. I showed him his Myspace feelings. I told him of our conversations. husband is one that would let him do whatever he wants. Take him anywhere, do anything...difficult child IS his entire world. difficult child KNOWS that. He knows dad will be there for him forever. There is no doubt there. Things got really bad the last few years because I do the school thing. I am the one school calls, I have all the meetings....I do everything. I just can't do it anymore. I just can't do it. I tried turning it over to husband. But he cannot get phone calls in the shop. When he returns calls at lunch of after work---nobody is available. husband has been stepping up more, a little more than before. Although I still cannot get him to regularly check his grades online.
difficult child also knows (he told me this today) that dad has a hard time showing his feelings because his parents died when he was young. difficult child told me that just because dad doesn't tell me he loves me...he does.
But, he tells difficult child he loves him a thousand times a day. difficult child is a very bright kid. He ***** everything in and researches everything. He likes his school, he likes the staff...unless he gets in trouble. That would be true at any school.

I am trying. I try SO hard. difficult child knows anytime, anywhere if he is feeling bad, he has 5 different people he can call that would be there for him. He knows this.

I sure hope he did well on finals this morning. It will set the tone for the weekend.

Thank you all for helping me. Even if you can't get through all my jumbled thoughts, it helps to write. And I learn so much from all of your posts. Even if I don't have words to reply, your wisdom is so comforting. I think of you all ---always. I don't know where I would be without this board.

I am afraid it is because of me. Not only because of our arguments (me losing control.) He has pushed MY buttons his entire life. Not dad's. Dad didn't even see this behavior for years. He thought I made it up.

I too worry. About so many things that I have no control over. I take deep breaths, tell myself worrying doesn't help. still I worry. so, see he got that from me too.

Thank you all again. each and everyone. I do read all your posts and I pray for you all. Just don't have the words right now.

 

[rejectedmom]

Honestly at this point I think I would be asking to have your son checked into a hospital for a medication wash. He has been having one drug after another thrown at him and in my humble opinion he needs to start over in a safe environment. I am glad that you son doesn't take street drugs but worry that his "druggie" friends might be slipping some stuff into his food or drinks. It is amazing what kids will do to each other and I would put nothing out of the relm of possibilities.

In addition I want to suggest that you try adding a few natural supplements to your son't diet. EFA's and Phyconochol have been known to help with many symptoms of MI. I do not believe that either will have an affect with any of his currant medications but would check that out anyway before starting them.

Lastly, try to relax and stay calm. I am sure that is hard but it is important both for your own health and also his. You do not want him feeding off of your fear. Try meditation and see if he is also willing to give it a try. It cannot hurt. I will continue to hold good thoughts for you and your family. (((HUGS)))-RM

 

[hearts and roses]

{{{kjs}}} I posted before but it wasn't relevant to the way the thread went. You've gotten great advice and I agree with RM about doing a medwash and starting from scratch if possible. Try not to be so hard on yourself - we didn't do these things to make our kiddos like this.

 

[Kjs]

difficult child hasn't been on any medication since January except for advil, tylenol #3 for bad headaches. It has been atleast 8 weeks since he had any medication prior to starting Adderall on 3/17. Then added 5mg's of Lexapro yesterday. That's it.

He hasn't taken anything for headaches in a week or two. He still has them but can deal with them. I explained the rebound headache thing and he looked it up so he is trying to go without.

In the past 4 years he has tried many medications. Only good result was Lamictal but didn't last beyond 3 year mark.

He failed his Algebra final. I don't know if he finished it. That has been the biggest problem all year. They removed extra time for tests from his IEP and I am trying to get it put back on. If he didn't finish his final exam, he can finish next week. It is no longer on his IEP but principal will allow this. I don't think he will want to. He got 29/69...sad face. But his quarter grade is a C. Just I KNOW it could be an A. Maybe I shouldn't even mention it and just accept the C and start a new quarter. Too much going on right now and I need him to relax.

He is "hanging out" with a girl right now. This is a girl he really likes, goes to a different High School. She too will have nothing to do with anyone who does drugs. She even stopped talking to difficult child for a while because the kids he was talking to did drugs. I am glad she is spending time with him. She has no idea how much this means to him.

For some reason my boss scheduled me for two different classes in addition to my 12 hour work days. And working in a data center=I work weekends. So for the next three weeks, I have one day off. That one day I work at the school district serving lunch. I feel so tired with all the worry, and so guilty for not being able to be home. Not even on weekends since I have to work them. My next day off is Good Friday and I am planning a trip to Green Bay-----alone. It is the one year anniversary of my mothers death. I have not gone to the cemetary ever. I want to go. But I want to be alone. It will mean driving about 6 hours that day. But I miss her so much. I need to do this.

 

[smallworld]

Did the depression worse once Adderall was started? Even if it works for attention, it could be having a bad effect on mood and anxiety.

 

[Kjs]

Have not noticed a change since adderall. It was the very day he started the adderall that he started talking of all these things being unreal, and sad and nothing fun. I have been watching him. He is feeling worse regarding the "unreal" thing and feeling sad and not wanting to do anything. But it seemed to be headed this way prior to the adderall. His only complaint with adderall is how tired it makes him feel. Hoping it goes away.

I am very sad he failed his final. I bet anything he didn't finish. I bet he didn't even try to finish. Just like "pre adderall". I don't think he finished a single test or quiz the entire year.

 

[jbrain]

Hi Kjs,
wow, I can't believe all the stress you are under. You never get any time to recharge. I'm glad you will go to the cemetary and I am sorry for your loss.

I don't know if this will help or not but I remember when I was so worried over one of my difficult child's academic stuff and someone reminded me that her mental health was the most important thing--I had to sort of let the academic stuff slide and not worry over whether she would graduate or how her grades were, etc. They just had to take a second seat to her mental health. She ended up dropping out of school (one of my biggest fears) but then managed to get a GED when she was 17--it was all on her own too. I had totally butted out of her school issues by then.

It has been hard with difficult child 2/easy child dtr because she has had to reduce her schedule some of the time and she has barely passed sometimes. She is a senior now and it is only because she herself has set the goal of getting a diploma with her class that she is managing to graduate. She barely made it from 10th to 11th grade--had to do tutoring almost all summer to pass. With her too, I had to realize her mental health had to come first. It would not be the end of the world if she failed at school. Also, she had to be the one to take ownership of it--when I allowed her to do that she rose to the occasion and did as well as she could given her emotional problems. My nagging her or even mentioning her schoolwork caused more stress, not less.

Hugs,
Jane