I don't like my difficult child

[1 Day At a Time]

Nancy,

I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this. Both of our boys, easy child and difficult child have taken us there at one time or another. I agree totally with Marguerite's great analysis of the situation. Honestly, I wish I had this to consider years ago, but better late than never :smile:

I have always thought of it this way: it is the first and foremost job of an adolescent in our culture to pull away from home and family to create their own presence and identity in the world. Let me say that I really do not like this about our culture. I didn't like when I was an adolescent either. But, I'm not part of a culture that has "turning adult" tasks and ceremonies for adolescents. I think that kind of procedure takes the change over away from the home hearth and makes it public, and by the way, much more easy for all concerned. We encouraged both of our guys in Boy Scouts because we viewed this wonderful program as a good subsitute for a "coming of age" program. easy child accomplished every goal toward Eagle Scout except his final project. It was an enormous amount of work that he had already completed and husband so deperately wanted him to earn Eagle Scout - but easy child chose this as his adolescent rebellion and refused to do it. husband had devoted many years of effort into helping easy child with this - countless camping, and hiking trips - even to the extent of leading several two week canoeing trips in the Northern Boundary Waters between the states and Canada. Trust me, easy child knew how important this was to husband. But he took the power he had at this point and used it to rebel against husband. It took a long time for husband to lick those wounds!

I think this gets very complicated with difficult child's! The culture is giving them the message loud and clear: disrespect your parents, show them that you are not a part of their ridiculous dreams and goals for you. Not being very sophisticated in many ways, they tend to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". They are trying to incorporate a cultural imperative that they cannot possibly understand, they have fears about their own identity , and they are quick to repudiate what they feel they cannot do. Sour grapes behavior to the max. Add to this just general "difficult child-ness". What a receipe for disaster! I think you get, and I see with our difficult child, typical adolescent hormone fueled rebellion that is transmogrified into something that is so very ugly. I fight against it by bringing on my ultra thickskinned armour and doing the best that I can. If I remind difficult child about assignments in a discrete way and he chooses to ignore me - well ultimately that is his choice. At that point, husband and I just let it go and see it move to its logical conclusion . This is so hard... I had no clue about this when I first was thinking dreamy thoughts about having a family. But I have had to realize that ultimately the choice has to be his. If he chooses to say and do ugly disrespectful things to husband and myself - and trust me he does - he is the one who must deal with the results of his actions and words.

 

[Nancy]

You are all so wise. Thank you for all your insight, I am listening. Now if I can only put into action some of those words.

It's soooo hard.

Nancy

 

[Stella Johnson]

So sorry to hear she is spiralling downward again. :crying: I thought she had been nearing becoming a easy child. I haven't been on the board as much as I used to though.

Their words really do cut like a knife. You never get used to hearing those things. The only thing I can think of is to not show how much it hurts. She is looking for a reaction from you. Don't satisfy her.

Is she still hanging out with the good kids in school?

(((hugs)))

Steph

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

It IS hard.

My difficult child is six, and she says things like that to me.

I got to the point where no matter what she says, I say "ya THINK?"

 

[SunnyFlorida]

Sorry Nancy. Ditto to what Kathy said.
I too disliked both difficult child's when they were your difficult child's age. At 20, difficult child 2 is really quite a likeable person. difficult child 1? well, he's likeable if you don't get sucked into his drama.

 

[Star*]

Nancy,

Hugs for your pain. Margurite certainly had many sound things to say in regard to your post. I agree. I would also like to add a thought based on your observances of your daughter.

I'm bringing this to the table not for the darkside version but so that it may help you. I know it helped me allow myself to let a lot of hurtful things go regarding my difficult child and my former marriage.

There ARE people born into this world that are just mean and evil. My ex would be one of the evil people. There was never any remorse, never any kindness to me or anyone else without it being a benefit to him. He was manipulative, cold, calculating and just evil. People like this do exist. We can't change them. Do you think your daughter is like this or is she able to be kind and nice to others without it being a benefit to her; but just not kind and nice to you?

My son is a budding psychopath. THAT was a hard earful to hear. And while he has the characteristics of being a true psychopath he's not mean or cruel to me all the time. Some days he can be nice without a reason. This is what I have to hang on to in hopes that he isn't genetically linked to biodad and becomes a sociopath. Read up on psychopaths it's not what everyone thinks. Some are actually very functional. My therapist told me there are many political people, doctors, law makers that are. If what I described isn't your daughter then I would tell you and agree that it's your self esteem that needs a polish. If it is, then get your hand on as much literature as you can, read and find a good therapist to learn how to detach and walk away feeling good about you.

You're a great lady. You've always been here for me offering kind words, and encouragement. I appreciated it more than you'll know. So please don't take this as an over the internet diagnosis. It's just some of what you said about her, rang bells with my own therapy. I hope it's the latter and not the former.

Also remember if ugly words come out of a mouth, they had to come from ugly insides. IF that's what she feels inside you can't fix it. Only she can be responsible for herself and her actions. In the mean time I'd get a good therapist for myself and learn how to not let her words pierce my heart. It helped me in knowing that while I didn't like my son, I did love him; but I don't give him permission to walk on me and say whatever he likes and get away with it. I used to have a snappy comeback for difficult child. Now I just walk away in silence. My silence speaks volumes if to no one else other than myself.

Hugs for you
Star

 

[TerryJ2]

Oh, Nancy. I am so sorry.

SickandTired, been there done that!!!

Of course, that's why we're all here ...

 

[tinamarie1]

Nancy, I know how you feel. My difficult child has had rages in the past and told me similar things. It hurts to the core and I think in a way makes us distance them. I know that when I am hurt by abusive language, I will back away from my kids, it puts that little distance by the way us. It shouldn't be that way...I guess in a perfect world, I would just let it roll off my back, but I am a sensitive person anyway. Then I tend to think in my mind, gee I gave birth to you, I sacrifice alot of my life so you can have things and wear nice clothes and have a cell phone, etc. and all I want is to be talked to with respect. gesh

 

[BusynMember]

I've also read new theories about psychopathology being genetic. We think that love can heal our kids, but that isn't always true. I'm not convinced that this child is a psychopath though--she may have signs, but at least she isn't dissing the law completely or getting into serious legal trouble. Sometimes even the worst difficult children change in their 20's (mine did). It's very complicated. I tried to NOT add fuel to the fire when my daughter deliberately baited me. I didn't always succeed.

 

[Nancy]

Star I wish I had your wisdom. I am scared to death that she is a psychopath. She is downright mean and nasty to some people and yet claims that she can't be mean to anyone. There are several girls at school that haven't done anything to her but she HATES them and isn't afraid to tell people that. She can be nice to people but I think mostly it's to keep her friends. I believe it's mostly to benefit her. She isn't nasty to everyone, just some people.

But she lies, steals and cheats and has no remorse. She stole a necklace from the mall last week to wear with her formal. She wore it proudly even though we called her on the fact that we knew it was stolen. She denied it, yet we found it in her purse, not in a bag with receipt, tucked inside her school agenda.

She feels it is her right in tell me to get in a car accident. The fact that I just went silent and walked away tells her that she won, she made me shut up. She did this all in front of her friend. I don't know what her friend thought but I did say that I hoped sometime her friends would tell her how inappropriate she is.

I love what you said about ugly words coming from ugly insides. I don't know if that's truly how she feels or is just a mask. She never lets anyone in. I looked up psychopath and it seems most all of the characteristics she possesses.

My husband is much better able to accept the fact that she is a mean nasty person and will never change. I keep holding out hope, but then I get hurt over and over.

Nancy

 

[Penta]

After reading the posts about psychopaths, I wanted to add something else about my girl...she received so many terrible frightening diagnoses during her early teens..anti social conduct disorder, early onset schizophrenia, bi polar, ODD, and on and on because she exhibited characteristics of all these at various times...she lashed out physically and verbally at everyone in authority. But, NO diagnosis stuck. After she came to terms with her anger over the sense of loss in her life, she began to heal. And, now she is a young adult in every sense of the word...responsible, mature, healthy in mind and body, has goals and ambitions, compassionate, and kind. She still has her strong personality but, she is just a normal older teen now. And for that, I am forever grateful.

 

[Ephchap]

Nancy,

I'm so sorry to hear things aren't going well with J again. I had hoped that when she turned things around last year, that she'd stay on that path.

It seems she's focusing her anger at you and lashing out at you because she knows she can hurt you. She upsets you and she knows it. Like me, you wear your heart on your sleeve, as they say.

I have no idea what the answer is, but some of the above members had some good ideas.

Sending hugs. You've certainly been down a long road with her, and I know how much it hurts.

Hugs,
Deb

 

[Fran]

When I hear that hateful talk spew out of a kids mouth I want to shake them until their teeth rattle.
Nothing ever eases the hurt. The no blame because she was born this way is the only way I got through similar circumstances. I was just in the way.
I just posted about someone stealing something. I'm sure you cringe with shame to know she does this sort of thing.
You have my sympathies.

 

[Star*]

Nancy,


It's just an observance due to the behaviors you wrote about. Believe me, our genetic pool is a lot LOT more obtuse so chances for my son were bad from the start so WHO knew?

My x and his family have a long, long history of abusive behavior.
That should have been my first clue to run, but my x is a natural born sociopath. He's not nearly human, he's evil. The man that we see for therapy works and helps the prisioners within the prison system so if anyone would know sociopathic behaviors it would be him.

All the years of going to him to get my head straightened out, and talking about my x left him with only one diagnosis for my x. Sociopath. The more I talked about him the more he became convinced that maybe he answered to a different master. I told him what my son and I endured was beyond hideous. How I ever got out has only one answer.

Then there are my genetics, and being adopted so long ago doesn't really leave me wanting to go searching. I dealt with all that in therapy and I'm happy with who I am and where I came from doesn't matter. At least it didn't until the supposition that my son could be a budding psychopath.

The MAIN thing here is me - really. It took me a lot of time in therapy with a good shrink to figure out that while my son has his behaviors all messed up, it's NOT my fault. I learned in therapy how NOT to take blame or responsibility for the things my son said, did, didn't do, or screamed in hatred at me. When he was involved in those breakins I nearly passed out - actually I had a stroke, and later heart attack due to the judge screaming "You could get life". But again - he's 17, and this is his life, those choices were HIS not mine. And he can choose to be a psychopath or not too.

There was a joke going around on the internet years ago about an application with a,b,c,d questions for being hired. One of the answers to a question was Goes like an SOB if there is something in it for him. And THAT is my son. Hang the consequences, I just know what I want and if you're in my way I will eat you and spit you out.

Well then? So be it. Son or not, I had to start looking at this person like a person not a relative. When he came at me with fangs and loathe, I had to get out my invisible shield and draw from my therapy on how to react. Your reaction to your daughters hateful little comment was correct. You don't give them fuel. If you walk away, she doesn't win - you do. You didn't engage her. And we all know that consequences and punitive threats are well meant but worthless with these kids. SO it's on to bigger and better things like The school of hard knox, life lessons, letting them fall and not picking them up. Letting the real world have their turn and sitting on your hands, and keeping your mouth shut.

Without therapy? I could NEVER have done this because I didn't feel I was worthy of his respect. I'm the Mom, I married the bad guy, I let bad things be a part of his youth, I left his dad so I should be MOM and Dad, I took him away to a better life from his crazy father's family, I'm adopted so I must be genetic junk...and on and on. Then in therapy I learned how to communicate or rather NOT communicate with him. I took back control over my home, and meant what I said and did it. If I said "I'm calling the police!" I did! And once I started doing what I said I'm doing he calmed down. When he didn't? I said "You're no longer welcome to live here. I love you, but I care about myself more than to let this continue -this is crazy." Then I made arrangements for him to live somewhere else. And you know what?

When he moved I went into his room and sobbed for a solid hour. My baby, the thoughts racing through my head. I just put my baby out into the cruel world. I was a lousy...wait a minute. I'm not lousy I'm caring about myself, I didn't THROW him out - he had a choice, obey the rules of MY home or GET OUT and get his own home. You can do whatever you want in your OWN home. So go. I didn't make him break in, I taught him right from wrong and I did it the best way I could despite his being so ugly towards me. One minute he's nice (to get something) and then the minute I'm done doing (snap) it's over and I'm cow dung. Who else would EVER treat me like this and live to say something else with a full mouth of teeth? No one. SO WHY THEM?

There is no logical answer to that question so don't try to answer it. Fact is YOU are a great MOM. You did a fantastic job to give this 'person' a life that was safe, secure, well off, and educated her for the future to live on her own. Even mother birds will drop a fledgling out by the head if it stays in the nest too long. Eventually they fly away and the baby is on it's own to grow up.

God made me smarter than a bird - I was sure of that. But then I behaved dumber than dirt because I thought I HAD to keep taking the abuse. Not true.

There are places for her to go out of your home. If she's happier there? Good, if she's not? Oh well she had a choice to obey your rules and stay or keep being a jerk and go. And what I know about my son going away is that I am sad he's not here to share things with, then I remember he doesn't want to share with me. He didn't want to live here, he maybe wanted me to be his Mom but he sure didn't SHOW me I was wanted or appreciated. So why keep 'em? I didn't even count down to 18. I told people I would be dead before then, and they got him out.

You're too good for what you get from her Nancy. I'm sorry. I wouldn't shelter her any longer, let her have hard knocks. She's going to get them anyway, moving out at 18 isn't going to give her the 1.75 years she needs to mature, she's had 16.25 years to do that, and hasn't changed regardless. The ONLY difference is YOUR life will start to heal sooner. You deserve it. You really do. Ask anyone here, we think the world of you and we don't even "know" you.

Good luck and don't dwell on the psycho thing. She can change if she chooses to, and there's nothing set in stone that she is even a psychopath. And if she is? Like I was told - there are functioning psychos everywhere. Past that, it's up to you what you do with YOU to survive. Wherever she lands she'll make it.

Sorry for your pain, really and truly
Hugs & Love
Star

 

[guest3]

I can relate, what's worse is when difficult child's say such thing and 5 minutes later they're hugging you and telling you they love you. Nothing like an emotional roller coaster ride 24/7! Mine sense my skin crawling sometimes because I am so weary of it that the hug just doesn't cut it, then he gets mad and says more hateful things

 

[Wiped Out]

Nancy,
I'm so sorry for difficult child's painful words. It does cut to the core. Some day I'm better at ignoring it than others. (((((Hugs)))))

 

[Sunlight]

I think all the difficult children have said something similar at some point to their parent (s). it hurts, but I can tell you it will only hurt so long. in time if she continues this behavior you will stop caring so much. you will have convinced yourself it is nothing you have done, and this is truly a person who doesnt not repect man or beast. ugh. been there done that and still there with ant at times.

 

[lovemysons]

Dear Nancy...

I hope you're not feeling as hopeless today.

There was a time when my Young difficult child was spewing all sorts of Awful things to me. He told me he hated me, wished I were dead, called me an Fing B, etc.
I remember one day when he was cussing me out that I literally uturned and pulled into a Firestation. I knew I needed help and at least it got him to Shut Up for one minute!

Nowdays...I am Young difficult child sounding board and he tells me his deepest darkest fears, thoughts, opinions etc.
Who knew that only a few years down the road I would be his strongest confidante.

I'm sorry your difficult child treated you this way, none of us deserves it and I suspect your difficult child will be sorry for this one day if not soon. My young difficult child tells me how sorry he is that he treated me so poorly in the past. He is so glad that I listen to him now and have listened to him for years.

Hang in there, I hope it gets better soon!
Tammy

 

[Nancy]

Thank you Star and Tammy, you've both given me a lot to think about. Thank you everyone for your kind words. I'm printing this off because you have all helped me so much and I want to keep this close by for when I forget.

I haven't spoken to difficult child much since then, a few words here and there. We didn't go to her football game Friday, husband and I stayed home and grilled steaks outside. I'm working hard on letting go. This anger thing is her problem and she is going to have to deal with it. I can't save her from herself anymore. I keep hoping she will mature and realize she doesn't want to live this way but it doesn't happen.

I don't know what difficult child feels inside if anything. I suspect she will need years of therapy as an adult to sort out all her feelings.

Nancy