I don't want my daughter to live with me...

[Copabanana]

I do think, however, there is something else at play here with her blatant defiance, spitefulness and vindictiveness starting at a very young age

Welcome Icefairy.

I have nothing to add but want to underscore the neuropsychologist idea. It will help you find answers, point the direction to treatment and hopefully allow you to access resources that will help her and you.

You have our support. All of us are dealing with some form of the same thing, or have, for many years.

Most if not all of us have blamed ourselves to some extent. Wrongly. Many of us have been scapegoated by others. It is no fun.

At the same time, children do not intentionally torment us although it feels that way. I second what Insane and Somewhereouthere wrote. And Apple, too. ODD is really just a list of behaviors. It does nothing to illuminate a cause.

I was very sensitive too, about my parenting. It would destroy me if somebody questioned any aspect of how I mothered my child. The reality is that professionals can be insensitive and even ignorant. Other people, too. It still hurts.

The thing is to understand that every one of us would feel as you do in the circumstances you are in. It is not your fault. But it is not your daughter's fault either.

This is a detective story and the clues must be figured out before it is known what to do, how to deal with her behaviors and how to intervene to help her and to help you. Something is going on with her that as yet is not understood.

You need help to learn how to respond to her behaviors in ways that are effective. This will come with a good diagnosis and treatment.

I do not know where you live. In the USA the schools have a responsibility to help with diagnosing and with providing adequate educational interventions. That said, it is always a good thing to get a diagnosis privately, I think.

I do not see that you mentioned school. How is her behavior there? What do her teachers say? Has her intelligence been measured? What about achievement? Does she have friends? Is she aggressive with peers? Does she have interests, hobbies? What are they?

In the US there are quasi-governmental agencies that can support families in some cases.

Depending upon the diagnosis medical insurance could apply.

This kind of assistance would require a diagnosis from a developmental specialist like you would find in a University Hospital or a Childrens Hospital in a major city, i.e. the neuropsychologist. We did this. We also went to a child neurologist.

She could have a developmental disorder which affects her ability to understand or respond in a normal way, but not necessarily affect her intelligence. That would be nobody's fault.

Keep posting. We support you. And your daughter, too. We want her to thrive and to succeed. And you too. Have hope. There is hope. Believe us.

Most of all, it is not your fault. You are a loving mother. But you are human.

Take care.

COPA

 

[NC Momma]

Hey there! I am also new here, but I wanted to comment. You were very open and honest with your feelings and honestly... I am worried for you as well as your daughter. You sound so very close to just breaking. Would it be a bad idea to let her stay at your mother's maybe just over Christmas break? To give yourself a break and get settled down so that you can think? I had a child with classic ADHD too and until we got her medications right, I couldn't even think and I know that you know this feeling.

I also had a neighbor friend who had a daughter with ODD and yes, this child was, I don't know how to say it. Her behavior was AWFUL. My neighbor friend would get so very frustrated and in the end, she couldn't take her own emotions over the situation and she lost control and ended up hitting her child in an abusive way. We are all only human, and whether we like to admit it or not, we all have a breaking point. Please consider letting your family help you before you get to this point. As some have said, this has nothing to do with you being a bad parent and it also has nothing to do with her being a "bad" child. ADHD is a medical condition. Some of these things, whether she knows better or not, well these children can't always help their behavior; thus, the ADHD. Saying that she knows better is not always the case as her mind just doesn't work the same as someone who is "normal".

I applaud you for making the appointment. As a counselor myself, I can guarantee you that a counselor is not going to think you are crazy or a bad parent. But, I do urge you to get help immediately and not to let this go any farther. When you get to feeling so frustrated, just take a minute for yourself, breathe deep, and remind yourself that she is only ten years old and she is also your little girl. I pray that things turn around for you and your child. I truly do.

 

[NC Momma]

Also, I want to say that while there are many people who don't subscribe to the ODD theory, I do, and from what you are mentioning here, I would say that you have an extremely good theory. Now the thing is to find a doctor and a therapist who are educated and practice treatment of ODD and get her to them quickly. The quicker you get her there- the quicker that you all get some relief. Right? Right! I truly do think you are on the right track with that.

 

[InsaneCdn]

NC Momma - perhaps you can inform us of the therapies that actually work for ODD?

My son was labeled ODD in his early teen years. The counselors and therapists and psychologists and psychiatrists would not give him any other label. But the tough-love approach they advocated only made things worse. I had to do my own research and find other approaches that are not recommended for ODD, to try... and found that approaches used for kids on the autism spectrum worked best - not a complete answer, but better. Then he became an adult. And as an adult... he got a whole different set of professionals, and a whole different theory on behavior and... he IS on the autism spectrum (Asperger's), plus bi-polar, and finally starting to get the help that he should have had 10 or 15 years sooner. I have seen this over and over with other parents and kids that I know in person. Label = ODD but... mental health, developmental issues, or sexual abuse were the root of every ODD kid I have known.

 

[Second Time Around]

I agree with others who have advised not to rule anything out and not to be certain that she has classic ADHD. My stepson was diagnosed with ADHD when he was six and put on stimulants because he was extremely impulsive, always moving, etc. He had always had a hot temper since he was a baby, but he became almost unbearable to live with after that - always irritable, had hour-long melt-downs over very minor things, such as difficulty putting on his boots, ran away from home and school frequently, and hurt someone at least once a week. This behavior went on for years. We kept looking for answers. It seemed like much more than ADHD and looked at bipolar disorder, but he had a child psychiatrist who insisted that children couldn't have bipolar disorder (which is now classified as disruptive mood disregulation disorder in children). Finally, he was placed in a residential treatment facility for a year. There was a different psychiatrist attached to the facility, who diagnosed him with bipolar disorder and changed his medications at age 12. He has been a different person since then. He is cheerful most of the time and no longer spends his life looking for a fight. He can still have a blow up and get angry, but it only lasts a few minutes and once every couple of months instead of a couple of times a day. He and everyone else around him endured six years of violence and anger because of this misdiagnosis.

I have thought for several years that he is on the autism spectrum as well - very literal, poor social skills, unable to put himself in another's place, sensory issues, motor coordination issues. However, I can't convince my husband to have him re-evaluated and his doctor doesn't see it - the same doctor who couldn't see that he has bipolar disorder, which we had to go back to after he was released from residential treatment. Child psychiatrists are very limited, so we're stuck, when he could be getting sensory integration therapy and other additional services.

So my advice would be to look at everything and keep pushing if the diagnosis and treatments don't seem to be helping.

 

[BusynMember]

My son was also diagnosed as ADHD and ODD (I don't think ODD is a useful diagnosis...sort of means "bad behavior and I don't know why.") There is no treatment for it.

My son is actually not ADHD, but on the autism spectrum and has gotten good interventions and supports and is now a very high functioning and self-sufficient autistic young man of twenty-two. If we'd run with our first diagnosis., he'd be a mess on stimulants, which made him crazy, and he would not keep doing better and better every day and making friends nor being beloved by everyone in the community. His behavior was horrid as a toddler.

Seriously, as a young adult, he has almost no temper at all (he used to rage as a young 'un) and seems to be very happy with life (he had bounced from an ADHD to bipolar diagnosis, but clearly the bipolar diagnosis was incorrect. medications made him worse. He is medication free, working, and living along, something we'd never thought possible when he was your son's age. Without medications, he has zero moodswings. He is so easygoing my youngest child, who never had any diagnosis. like him, has said, "Wish I were as even tempered as my brother!" The medications themselves made my son seem moody and bipolar. I'm angry at all the years he spent on heavy duty medications...be careful about your health care professionals. Do your own research too. It helps!

Never stop looking for the truth and get second and third opinions.