I give up....
- Thread starter ColleenB
- Start date
Endeaver
New Member
Colleen I can totally identify with your situation as I spent way too much on my two kids and they blew it. However, besides feeling foolish when I think about it, I do feel completely free of guilt on their subsequent consequences (as a small positive side to the bad situation).
DarkwingPsyduck
Active Member
And this is about all you can do. Or SHOULD do, for that matter. I am not a parent, and I don't mean to criticize parenting, I am just hoping to give a better view into their minds. I was just going to say that you will be better off once you start accepting the reality that NOTHING you can possibly do will do the work for them. It may be the natural parental instict to at least try, but it doesn't do them any good. And clearly doesn't do you any good. Since so many of us need to have a date with the rock at the bottom of the pit, much of what you do for them only slows the fall. The sooner they hit it, the sooner they will be willing to do the work required to live a sober, happy life. You cannot do the work for them, as much as you might like to. Even if you could, should you? It may make things easier in the immediate future, but it will take it's toll somewhere down the road. I can't truly comprehend your feelings on a deep enough level, same way it is difficult for you to do the same with me, and your sons. I can only tell you what I believed to be helpful in my own case, and the things that were detrimental. No two addicts are identical, and no two parents are identical. I am just trying to share my own personal experiences, and I sincerely apologize if I have offended you, or anybody else here by presuming too much.
DarkwingPsyduck
Active Member
And I hope that you reach the point where you no longer feel any guilt for them, or feel responsible for the things that THEY do, in spite of the fact that you raised them better then that. I would imagine that is a pretty liberating experience.
ColleenB
Active Member
It's been a quiet week. Husband bought us bikes, and we are trying to get outside and enjoy the nice weather, which here in Canada means just not snowing!
Younger son has been making a concentrated effort to find a job, no luck yet. He has also contacted his university advisor, and is trying to find out options for next fall. Right now he thinks he would like business better, as he did well in math and his business elective. I'm glad he is at least thinking forward.
Older son has been sick all week, it seems he is sick often .
He has been in a better mood, even going out with us the night we bought the bikes. It doesn't appear he is using right now, or selling. But I am not always aware I realize. I'm just making observations based on past experiences.
He says he is looking for work in a kitchen. He says he can't be around people in a positive way right now. He used to work with kids and was very good, but he says he isn't healthy enough
He is also waffling on returning to university. I get it. I am extremely sad about it however. He is such a smart and gifted person academically, so it's hard to accept. I know that I can't make him do anything, and if I do force it, it won't work, he has to find his own way.
I feel like I look at other kids his age and wonder why it's so different? Where did he decide that our life, life choices, we're not him? We have always valued education and doing the right thing, giving back to community.
It hurts my pride, and that is something I'm learning .... I have turned it into my shame, my perceived failings as a mother. But it's not about me. I get it. I do.
Learning how to live my life knowing I can't fix them... Or even really help much at this point. They are men.
Whew. Who knew those sweet babes would be sooooo much more complicated than the BAby Gap ads lead us to believe???
Younger son has been making a concentrated effort to find a job, no luck yet. He has also contacted his university advisor, and is trying to find out options for next fall. Right now he thinks he would like business better, as he did well in math and his business elective. I'm glad he is at least thinking forward.
Older son has been sick all week, it seems he is sick often .
He has been in a better mood, even going out with us the night we bought the bikes. It doesn't appear he is using right now, or selling. But I am not always aware I realize. I'm just making observations based on past experiences.
He says he is looking for work in a kitchen. He says he can't be around people in a positive way right now. He used to work with kids and was very good, but he says he isn't healthy enough
He is also waffling on returning to university. I get it. I am extremely sad about it however. He is such a smart and gifted person academically, so it's hard to accept. I know that I can't make him do anything, and if I do force it, it won't work, he has to find his own way.
I feel like I look at other kids his age and wonder why it's so different? Where did he decide that our life, life choices, we're not him? We have always valued education and doing the right thing, giving back to community.
It hurts my pride, and that is something I'm learning .... I have turned it into my shame, my perceived failings as a mother. But it's not about me. I get it. I do.
Learning how to live my life knowing I can't fix them... Or even really help much at this point. They are men.
Whew. Who knew those sweet babes would be sooooo much more complicated than the BAby Gap ads lead us to believe???
We were joking the other day, when the temp actually got above 20C for one day... "well, that's the end of summer".
If he isn't mentally healthy, university isn't the place to be. This may not be a permanent stop to his education, but he may need a few years to get his feet back under him.
Karenvm
Member
Colleen, this is me right now as well. My oldest (turning 21 very soon) is in college and we pay for it, also a brilliant and gifted kid who just can't seem to stay on the right track. I thought that if he could just go to college, get a degree, at least he will have options in his life. But that was MY doing. I am the one who pushed him to get there (at the very last possible second), and although he is "getting by", I feel a spiral coming, and it's horrible.
Because of the way he acted when home on spring break recently (alcohol involved, yet again), we have told him he cannot live here this summer. And "this summer" is coming next week, when the semester ends, and I know he has made no plans, and this is going to become ugly.
My middle son (who has NEVER had any issues with anything at all, and is just a wonderful person all around) had planned to enter the military after graduation in June, but just found out he is disqualified because of a medical issue (we are trying to get a waiver), and now I am finding out that he may not even graduate because his grades are so bad (he had planned to go into the military for two years, never wanted college, and in this last year, did hardly any work at all, though he too, is extremely smart). I sat in a meeting last week with the principle and almost cried.
I too think, "what did I do wrong"? I have a Masters Degree, and a very successful career and job that I LOVE. My kids see that, they know that. So how could they end up like this? I know I have to realize that I can't MAKE them something that they are not, but I am really grieving right now, because both seem to be in a tough position at the same time (though the second one I know will be successful in life, and he probably WILL graduate, but the dream of him becoming a Marine- his dream, that I had accepted, supported, and began to look forward to seeing, is falling apart).
You are not alone, Colleen, and I think it is so much easier for me, an "outsider" to see that you should not be blaming yourselves, even when I am doing the same exact thing in my very similar situation. Crazy, I know.
I hope that maybe we can help each other through all of this. The support and "advice" from members here is so helpful to me!
ColleenB
Active Member
I think having BOTH boys struggling right now makes me really feel like a failure! I know in my head that I can't do anything, but it's my heart that cries and feels so terrible. I constantly think " what could I have done differently? Where did it all go awry?"
I know the "what if" game only makes me sad, and has no use at all.
I just found out I was accepted to a second Masters Degree, and I wasn't even happy about it.... Why can I do this while working full time, but my kids can't even do part time univ? It's baffling.... And oh so depressing!
It's not like I ignored my boys, I was a stay at home mom until they were both in school, then went back and got my degrees in Education, and Counselling. I always wanted them to know they were loved, and spent lots of time with them. Their Dad coaches them for years and spent every weekend taking them to their events.
I don't know what else we could have done. In that way I know we did our best. But it feels so hard to accept that we can't just fix it and make it all better for them.
On a good note... They are both kind and loving boys. They visit their grandparents, and care about family. They are rarely rude to us.... The only time older son was mean was when he was heavily using. He owns his actions and the consequences. He is just sad about it. Which makes me sad.
Endeaver
New Member
It hurts my pride, and that is something I'm learning .... I have turned it into my shame, my perceived failings as a mother. But it's not about me. I get it. I do.
Colleen,
I'm trying to truly feel it's not about me.......
Your posts are so similar to my situation. Thanks for posting.
Colleen,
I'm trying to truly feel it's not about me.......
Your posts are so similar to my situation. Thanks for posting.
ColleenB
Active Member
Yes, it's a pride thing for me too! I feel so much shame... But I know that I shouldn't.
We are going out tonight with a few other couples, and I'm already trying to think of how to cancel! One of the moms I've known since my college years, and our oldest are the same age, when they were young they played together. Now her daughter is on her second degree and is doing an internship over in China. Makes me cringe when she talks about her. And she has a way of making me feel terrible about my son. She makes small comments that are "supportive" but feel like judgement. Another of the moms is one of my best friends and I'm going for her. She lost her youngest to suicide last summer, and is one of the most loving, un judgmental people I know. Her strength is amazing, an inspiration.
I will just have to ignore any conversation about kids....my hurt heart can't take it.
pigless in VA
Well-Known Member
Colleen, this ^ is what you hold onto. You and your husband have done a great job in raising your sons. They will both find their way as adults; they simply haven't figured everything out yet. They will.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
When we place our values on our kids shoulders we make it so hard for them and for us.
I know many people who post here have degrees and good jobs, so you maybe feel very good about this part of your life and want to share it with your kids. But many people aren't cut out for four year colleges, degrees and internships in China . Ok. I am just another peon off the street, but if that is what she wants to do and enjoys good for.her. thats all fine and good but...
Sorry, it doesnt impress me more than my son who didn't go to college at all yet worked his way up to a college level type job/salary. And I certainly dont feel as if that is more impressive than my brave, hardworking daughter who is a sweetie yet almost finished with her law enforcement degree. She'll make a great cop. My autistic son lives alone, works and is Mr. Nice and Happy. If you drop your groceries, he'll be the first person to run and pick them up for you. We were told he'd be a vegetsble. Um, hes NOT a vegetable AT ALL. He is my hero. I am proud of my daughter who put hersrlf through two years of college and won statewide cooking contests to become a pastry chef and is now the best stay at home mom. I am proud she said no to daycare. I am over the moon about both my grands...brilliant sweet eight year old (bart) and charming bright beautiful graddaughterb(princess). My kids are great parents. Their kids are so loved and to me that trumps any college degree.
None of my kids have a four year degree yet im as proud of them as if they had three degrees. They are good people, hard workers. A few had rough spots, which is why I sm here, but they triumphed. They won!!
We need to learn to stop comparing our house,our cars, our kids to what Mrs. Jones has. She has nothing to do with us. Her house, her job, her car, her kids are hers and ours are ours and we will be unhappy forever if we keep negatively comparing our lives to that of Mrs. Jones. And we dont know what really goes on in her house when the doors are closed. Nor should we care.
I grew up in a very rich, very competitive,even meanspirited suburb. I never Did "get it." Never did understand the mean competition to have a bigger house or car, nicer clothes, a higher paying job...as a girl it used to amuse me. I never did it and left that place behind. Never did like it there.
I have many nerological and mental health challenges and have struggled, but I have always taken so much pleasure in the best things in life that money cant buy, like a soaring eagle in a cloudless sky. I have had challenges with a couple of my kids, but feel so much pride and gratitude when they achieve. F u to Mary Cary who has ten degrees. So what? I dont care. I have the best kids ever and a prestigious degree or job is immaterial to me if my kids are good people. It is easy for me to feel pride in my family. And you can keep your mansion. I love my homey, cozy apartment and pretty view and my beloved dofs sitting next to me. I am glad if you have a mansion you love, but not envious. I am me. You are you.
Why did I write that?. Not sure. I guess maybe to share that that we CHOoSE what makes us happy. I feel its never good to hope our kids do what made us happy. They are not us and what made us happy may make them misersble.
Lastly, my husband to me is the best father ever and sonic snd jumper say so all the time. He did not work 60 hours a week to give us a huge house. But he was home in time to coach every single spirt,vto watch every game, to dry every tear. He was as involved in parenting as I was. The two kids he and I raised together...jumper and sonic...are the two happiest, most well balanced young people I know. My husband makes me so proud too. He is a mechanic (no college) and served our countrybin thebAir Force for telwelve years. Thanks, honey.
I hope this didnt offend anyone. It is just written by a differently wired mom with a different way of looking at things and who grew up to be very happy and contented. I may not have made much sense...lol. sorry if I rambled.
I live in gratitude for every little thing.
Love to all you lovely mothers.
I know many people who post here have degrees and good jobs, so you maybe feel very good about this part of your life and want to share it with your kids. But many people aren't cut out for four year colleges, degrees and internships in China . Ok. I am just another peon off the street, but if that is what she wants to do and enjoys good for.her. thats all fine and good but...
Sorry, it doesnt impress me more than my son who didn't go to college at all yet worked his way up to a college level type job/salary. And I certainly dont feel as if that is more impressive than my brave, hardworking daughter who is a sweetie yet almost finished with her law enforcement degree. She'll make a great cop. My autistic son lives alone, works and is Mr. Nice and Happy. If you drop your groceries, he'll be the first person to run and pick them up for you. We were told he'd be a vegetsble. Um, hes NOT a vegetable AT ALL. He is my hero. I am proud of my daughter who put hersrlf through two years of college and won statewide cooking contests to become a pastry chef and is now the best stay at home mom. I am proud she said no to daycare. I am over the moon about both my grands...brilliant sweet eight year old (bart) and charming bright beautiful graddaughterb(princess). My kids are great parents. Their kids are so loved and to me that trumps any college degree.
None of my kids have a four year degree yet im as proud of them as if they had three degrees. They are good people, hard workers. A few had rough spots, which is why I sm here, but they triumphed. They won!!
We need to learn to stop comparing our house,our cars, our kids to what Mrs. Jones has. She has nothing to do with us. Her house, her job, her car, her kids are hers and ours are ours and we will be unhappy forever if we keep negatively comparing our lives to that of Mrs. Jones. And we dont know what really goes on in her house when the doors are closed. Nor should we care.
I grew up in a very rich, very competitive,even meanspirited suburb. I never Did "get it." Never did understand the mean competition to have a bigger house or car, nicer clothes, a higher paying job...as a girl it used to amuse me. I never did it and left that place behind. Never did like it there.
I have many nerological and mental health challenges and have struggled, but I have always taken so much pleasure in the best things in life that money cant buy, like a soaring eagle in a cloudless sky. I have had challenges with a couple of my kids, but feel so much pride and gratitude when they achieve. F u to Mary Cary who has ten degrees. So what? I dont care. I have the best kids ever and a prestigious degree or job is immaterial to me if my kids are good people. It is easy for me to feel pride in my family. And you can keep your mansion. I love my homey, cozy apartment and pretty view and my beloved dofs sitting next to me. I am glad if you have a mansion you love, but not envious. I am me. You are you.
Why did I write that?. Not sure. I guess maybe to share that that we CHOoSE what makes us happy. I feel its never good to hope our kids do what made us happy. They are not us and what made us happy may make them misersble.
Lastly, my husband to me is the best father ever and sonic snd jumper say so all the time. He did not work 60 hours a week to give us a huge house. But he was home in time to coach every single spirt,vto watch every game, to dry every tear. He was as involved in parenting as I was. The two kids he and I raised together...jumper and sonic...are the two happiest, most well balanced young people I know. My husband makes me so proud too. He is a mechanic (no college) and served our countrybin thebAir Force for telwelve years. Thanks, honey.
I hope this didnt offend anyone. It is just written by a differently wired mom with a different way of looking at things and who grew up to be very happy and contented. I may not have made much sense...lol. sorry if I rambled.
I live in gratitude for every little thing.
Love to all you lovely mothers.
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ColleenB
Active Member
SWOT, I'm not offended at all.
I agree that you don't have to have a college degree to be successful. I'm just disappointed that they both wanted to be in school this term, so we paid out thousands of dollars, and they both did horribly, it's just frustrating.
I've tried to encourage older son to go back to working as a teachers assistant, which was his happiest I've seen him in the last four years. He stopped using, and was sleeping normal hours. He also felt good about what he was doing , helping kids who struggled. He says he isn't well enough to do that right now. He says he isn't in a good place mentally. I get it.
Younger son is just really immature and maybe not ready for univ. He is a good person, kind and funny. I do think he is lazy.... And that he needs to work on. He plans on moving out this summer, and we are totally supportive. We think it will be good for him. And for us.
I hope you don't think I only value people with college degrees. I'm not that way at all. My mom doesn't even have her high school and is my hero. She has done more for others than I can ever hope to. She was severely abused physically and prostituted out by her own father. He also sexually abused her. You couldn't meet a kinder, gentler soul. She is a light in a dark world. I adore her.
I also work with kids at a rural school, most of whom will never do post secondary. I think they are wonderful, smart kids. So please don't think I judge. What has been devastating is watching my child flail and use drugs, sell drugs and keep hitting walls. His hurt heart is hard to take. He said to me not long ago " I just messed up so bad... Why can't I just be a normal univ student?" This is where my pain comes from.
Does that make more sense? It's hard on here to see our stories as more than just a little clips.... I can't share all of it, so I just share the most painful, and sometimes shameful parts
I agree that you don't have to have a college degree to be successful. I'm just disappointed that they both wanted to be in school this term, so we paid out thousands of dollars, and they both did horribly, it's just frustrating.
I've tried to encourage older son to go back to working as a teachers assistant, which was his happiest I've seen him in the last four years. He stopped using, and was sleeping normal hours. He also felt good about what he was doing , helping kids who struggled. He says he isn't well enough to do that right now. He says he isn't in a good place mentally. I get it.
Younger son is just really immature and maybe not ready for univ. He is a good person, kind and funny. I do think he is lazy.... And that he needs to work on. He plans on moving out this summer, and we are totally supportive. We think it will be good for him. And for us.
I hope you don't think I only value people with college degrees. I'm not that way at all. My mom doesn't even have her high school and is my hero. She has done more for others than I can ever hope to. She was severely abused physically and prostituted out by her own father. He also sexually abused her. You couldn't meet a kinder, gentler soul. She is a light in a dark world. I adore her.
I also work with kids at a rural school, most of whom will never do post secondary. I think they are wonderful, smart kids. So please don't think I judge. What has been devastating is watching my child flail and use drugs, sell drugs and keep hitting walls. His hurt heart is hard to take. He said to me not long ago " I just messed up so bad... Why can't I just be a normal univ student?" This is where my pain comes from.
Does that make more sense? It's hard on here to see our stories as more than just a little clips.... I can't share all of it, so I just share the most painful, and sometimes shameful parts
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Yes, Colleen. Sadly, it makes tons of sense. I hope both your boys can get on track. They sound like they have a lot of potential
And, Colleen.I was not writing just to you. This forum tends to attract high achievers and many parents have lamented over college. Sometimes I just feel like reminding posters that there are tech schools or junior colleges or other types of ways to get a career. I do feel having a career is important. I dont feel it has to be a college degree. Some of our kids struggle with challenges that make them more suitable to get educated differently.
It has been my experience in real life that people who have degrees are stuck up about it. I dont mean everyone, of course, but a few. And some I know will be ashamed if their children don't get degrees. Yet my oldest had to quit college due to mental illness and he is making more money than many college grads. A degree doesnt mean success. Not having one doesnt mean failure.
I don't know...lol. My post was just a general one, not aimed at any one person. Just hoped to remind all that what made us happy doesnt always make our kids happy. Trust me, I never dreamed I'd raise a cop. I had grown up being anti gun!!!! Now I own one as I cheer my daughter on. We live.we learn.we change
Cheering all out talented kids on to victory!!!!
And, Colleen.I was not writing just to you. This forum tends to attract high achievers and many parents have lamented over college. Sometimes I just feel like reminding posters that there are tech schools or junior colleges or other types of ways to get a career. I do feel having a career is important. I dont feel it has to be a college degree. Some of our kids struggle with challenges that make them more suitable to get educated differently.
It has been my experience in real life that people who have degrees are stuck up about it. I dont mean everyone, of course, but a few. And some I know will be ashamed if their children don't get degrees. Yet my oldest had to quit college due to mental illness and he is making more money than many college grads. A degree doesnt mean success. Not having one doesnt mean failure.
I don't know...lol. My post was just a general one, not aimed at any one person. Just hoped to remind all that what made us happy doesnt always make our kids happy. Trust me, I never dreamed I'd raise a cop. I had grown up being anti gun!!!! Now I own one as I cheer my daughter on. We live.we learn.we change
Cheering all out talented kids on to victory!!!!
Karenvm
Member
What disappoints me is NOT that my sons may not have "college degrees", but that both have always had aspirations to do great things, but the oldest just can't get anything done for himself, can't execute at all- barely graduated high school (despite taking all AP classes, he cut GYM for an entire year!), and now seems to be spiraling downward again and my middle son may not even graduate high school (and despite the fact that I don't feel having a college degree makes you more "successful", I am sorry but a high school degree is just NECESSARY!), and has no plan, now that the military plan has fallen through.
I point out MY degree because I did it while my kids were in elementary, middle and high school- they watched me work, AND go to school, AND do all the "other " stuff mom's do, and they know that I am now in a job that I love. I worked (and still work) very hard, and really thought that I (we) had instilled that work ethic in them.
I only want for my kids what they want for themselves- my oldest has always wanted to become a physician or a scientist. I want him to realize his dream, but I don't know if he ever will. Alcohol and pot have gotten in the way.
My middle son has wanted to become a marine for years, and I completely support that (though unless this medical waiver works, he will not be able to do this either).
I want my kids to be "successful", meaning that they can contribute something to society, do something that they love to do and that makes them happy, all while being independent. Having a college degree has really nothing to do with it!
I point out MY degree because I did it while my kids were in elementary, middle and high school- they watched me work, AND go to school, AND do all the "other " stuff mom's do, and they know that I am now in a job that I love. I worked (and still work) very hard, and really thought that I (we) had instilled that work ethic in them.
I only want for my kids what they want for themselves- my oldest has always wanted to become a physician or a scientist. I want him to realize his dream, but I don't know if he ever will. Alcohol and pot have gotten in the way.
My middle son has wanted to become a marine for years, and I completely support that (though unless this medical waiver works, he will not be able to do this either).
I want my kids to be "successful", meaning that they can contribute something to society, do something that they love to do and that makes them happy, all while being independent. Having a college degree has really nothing to do with it!
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Karen, you sound like an awesome mother. I get exactly what you mean.
Sometimes, what we do overrides what we say. So, while you actually believe that the key to "success" doesn't come from a degree, they may have gotten a different message from all the work you put in to get there.
But school is brutal. Beyond brutal. One of mine is a drop-out, and the other was next-thing-to but does intend to finish. So much of the school environment works against differently-wired kids.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
You know. If I had not helped my son with his work, he would not have graduated from high school. If I am honest with myself, he was indifferent.
Yet, this same child in 3 weeks (at 14) had taught himself to speak Portuguese because he was going to Brazil on a trip, and later Latin, Italian, and French. In addition to Spanish fluency.
My son is enamored of his free money, SSI, and marijuana. They are his principle life goals at this point.
Now my dream is that he marry and have a family. But I do not even seen him interested in girls lately. Even that motivation has fallen by the wayside.
I guess I hope now that he will take on some kind of social service/volunteer cause and feel motivated to help others. But so far, there are no signs. He is empathic and kind but it does not seem to translate into helping as a commitment or a responsibility.others
My son seems like he wants to resume where he left off here in the house a decade ago. Free food. Family taking care of responsibilities. Life pretty much handled for him.
He has learned to temper the aggression but he shows no understanding of or motivation towards assuming adult responsibilities and actually making a life beyond indolence.
Yet, this same child in 3 weeks (at 14) had taught himself to speak Portuguese because he was going to Brazil on a trip, and later Latin, Italian, and French. In addition to Spanish fluency.
For me, this is so far in the rear view mirror I almost forgot it.
My son is enamored of his free money, SSI, and marijuana. They are his principle life goals at this point.
Now my dream is that he marry and have a family. But I do not even seen him interested in girls lately. Even that motivation has fallen by the wayside.
I guess I hope now that he will take on some kind of social service/volunteer cause and feel motivated to help others. But so far, there are no signs. He is empathic and kind but it does not seem to translate into helping as a commitment or a responsibility.others
My son seems like he wants to resume where he left off here in the house a decade ago. Free food. Family taking care of responsibilities. Life pretty much handled for him.
He has learned to temper the aggression but he shows no understanding of or motivation towards assuming adult responsibilities and actually making a life beyond indolence.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I pushed my son to take an online college course. You would have thought that I had learned.
He lied to me that he was doing the assignments until he could no longer lie. There was time to complete the paper but he fell apart. He really dissolved with stress and fear. Even I saw that this was not doable. He is working with disabled students to drop the course.
My son reads physics books in the library. He loves to learn. But on his terms. He cannot seem to handle the stress and demands of a formal school environment in real time. Maybe what you are saying, Insane, is the key.
