I need support

[Ascending]

Thank you. There is an update. Today after dropping my second son at school I ran into the guy my first son is staying with. He asked me why Nathan is still at his house. I said I didn't know. After some back and forth he told me it is time for Nathan to leave. He is not working or doing anything. Nathan was planning to move back with us for a time till he moves in an apt with a friend, but after my husband and I met with him, he was acting like such an we changed our mind. So now he is sulking. The man (Nathan's best friends dad) told me Nathan has to move back to our house cause he is done now. I know that is not what I am supposed to do......but Nathan is doing NOTHING about it. I told my husband (who is busy working today) and I am a wreck. There is something wrong with Nathan. He will not take responsibility. And he was so mean a couple weeks ago when we were agreeing to let him come back for a short time. I am panicking today and feel like my head is spinning. My son has no friends that he can ask a favor. My mother in law said he could live there.....OMG this never ends

Really being out, not having cushy couches left to surf, made a huge difference for mine.

And again if your mother in law is going to give him a spot I strongly recommend getting her the In Sheep’s Clothing book to help as a guide. So that she can give tough love and not herself be easily manipulated!

 

[YogiLori]

It’s all a learning process!!!

A hard one!


I wrote back some where you wrote on thread I started. It took actually being homeless (living in car ) for awhile for my son to be ready to change.

First, I think you need to feel okay to choose whatever meets your needs and those of your other son and husband first. That might be exactly what you are doing and letting your husband take control. And you can be sad because situation is sad. But the other way clearly wasn’t working for any of you, so this can at least be better for 3. And maybe it will be best for manipulative son too.

Some of all this may not even be very personal, but as much a situation of these times, just like losing a child to a war might have been in some prior time. Marijuana, vapes, etc entered into schools badly for this era. And it was probably not chance even that it happened. Plus popular culture influence. Including movies and media showing riches and drugs and almost no one is shown working hard ...

If you do ever let him home again or anything equivalent tough love and clear rules will still be needed. (And I hope any other relative etc giving him a chance will do that in your stead.
Though you can only control you.)

And I want to highly recommend
In Sheep’s Clothing by George Simon about dealing with manipulative people.
And if he’s going to a relatives you might share the book with them.

https://a.co/aarMgap


One of my requirements for my son being at home was treating me with kindness, respect and ... one other word that eludes me now.

Another of course was no drugs.

Another requirement was work. He had to find a job and make it work asap. Since currently there are tons of work places looking for employees this was not so difficult now as it might have been in other times, though still harder than one would have thought. Including that a minimum wage grocery bagging job that seems to be begging for people has yet to have had a reply, while he actually ended up taking a $20 per hour type job.

Then, very important, has been nipping seemingly “small stuff” like minor disrespect or meanness to dogs in the bud.

...

Thank you, I am buying that book today. My son called my husband to ask him about a job application. He had questions about some things. This made me happy. My husband and I are going to see my therapist tomorrow to talk all this out. My husband and I decided nope, he cannot live here anymore. We had made so many rules, and tried many many times and it is just not going to work. And I have to be proud of myself because I read the text that I sent to him a two weeks ago about him moving back and us saying okay for 2 weeks but then realizing he was going to be here for an unlimited amount of time and I said NO. My son and I went back and forth for many texts and I simply explained, we love him, can help him move, and even give him furniture, but moving back, even for a short time, is moving backwards. I also mentioned that he does not reciprocate our goodness and it is too hard to live with him. He replied that I was too sensitive (which yes I am the most highly sensitive person I know!!!) and I am giving my responsibilities to someone else. I told him his comments hurt my feelings but NO he is an adult and can live wherever he wants. So I have been ANXIOUS since this conversation because of course I want love.........BUT I didn't back down and this is a win for me. Also, I didn't text or call him to see how he was doing......another win for me. I am breaking my bad patterns BUT IT IS KILLING ME. my son called my husband for help, not me - which is unusual cause my husband does not take the crap I do. So he plays us off depending on what he wants or who he last had a negative interaction with..He cannot live here and I know he will not stay long at his grandma's cause she does not run the A/C its 100 here and she has no wifi. She is completely old school (her house is filthy too) It will be interesting if he does choose to go there and also interesting if he gets a job anytime soon. I am getting two of those books however for me and my mother in law. THANK YOU!!

 

[YogiLori]

Lori, first of all, is that your son’s real name you are using? Most of us use pseudonyms to maintain anonymity.

We are no better parents than you, just have been around the block a little longer, so to speak. I had to change my entire parenting style to parent my son, who sounds a lot like your boy. He had no motivation except to get in trouble, hang out with druggies, was very immature for his age and didn’t ever take responsibility for anything.

The violence started with the onset of puberty, with holes being punched in walls and doors, breaking things, police being called, juvenile court involved and me being a nervous wreck, so once he became an adult, we had to remove him from our home for the sake of our sanity and safety. He was getting in my face and threatening me, acting more vicious when my husband wasn’t around—really taking advantage of my weakness. He actually chose to leave on his own because of the pull of marijuana which he had just discovered. But we told him he couldn’t live here ever again. It hurt like heck but it was a relief from all the chaos and violence. We can’t possibly go back to the way it was.

Your son has got to know that he is going to end up homeless by not doing what is expected of him or making any effort to take responsibility for himself. He’s a smart kid, right? Got accepted to college? Sometimes they have to hit rock bottom to turn things around. Or not. I’ll be honest—I don’t know if my son has a rock bottom. You’d think it would have been jail, but even the possibility of returning there did not stop him from walking away from his third drug treatment program in two years.

Yes, this is very, very hard. But you can get through it. He will find his way. These kids are incredibly resourceful even as they continue to stay high. He is probably stronger than you think. But one thing that concerns me is that he is driving a wedge between you and your husband. My husband got tired of hearing about it as well and we had more arguments than I care to admit about how to deal with our son. Don’t let him ruin your marriage or disrupt the peace of your other child.

Hugs and stay strong.

Thanks, it is so hard, and I agree - my son is different with me than my husband. We had a very difficult interaction via text two weeks ago when he was asking to move back and I kept saying NO and giving him reasons. So he called my husband today to ask questions about a job application. Who knows where - but at least he is applying. We are going to meet with my therapist tomorrow morning so we can talk it through. I get so anxious when I don't give my son what he wants but I have said NO. And, when he says hurtful things, I tell him that hurt me deeply. At least I am setting my expectations about what he can say to me. And NO on the living here.......It feels like a win but I feel miserable even though. My son is the best manipulator and narcissist.....I know he is 19 but he is. I hope he grows out of it. Being in the real world and not in his room in our house will teach him. He would not even stay in a college dorm and talked us into living at home. It really was awful and I am a mom and want to take care of him - just naturally - but I feel resentful very fast because he takes and takes and takes and has that entitled attitude. We have to keep a separation or I will not be able to stay strong - it will take too much energy for me to stay strong.....He is REALLY strong and my therapist says he will take the path of least resistance which is wearing us down..........nope......not this time. And I was telling someone else that my mother in law grew up with 10 brothers and sisters on a farm in KS with outdoor plumbing and a dirt floor. She is salt of the earth and does not run her A/C so it is 92 in her house all summer, its kind of a dirty house (and I know my son doesn't like it) and she has no wifi.......he WILL NOT enjoy that. She is a wonderful soul and my husband is low maintenance, smart, tough, and knows what is important - so are his sisters.......We tried to teach our son those things but video games, social media, the wrong friends, marijuana, the pandemic - his strong will and defiance........he just keeps fighting w us and won't follow the rules!! I am literally on an emotional roller coaster today. I don't want to be, I am aware that I am, but I am letting my emotions get the best of me. It is really hard lately. I am working on it but I am not easily strong with saying no and not knowing where he will go......I have to keep working at it.

 

[BusynMember]

I will continue to believe that we can not "help" these adults and that all we do is get used and abused while they are pitied by us. Fact is, they are not children and if they won't work to get money to support themselves in my opinion it is best to write down the homeless shelters for them and phone numbers on how to apply for state benefits. Give it to them maybe so they can learn what life is like if they refuse to join society and its rules. Some like being homeless. Many leave our safe homes for the streetsveven when we offer them a place to live.

You have another child too. I decided that my other kids deserved peace.

Your husband is so important if you love him and he is a good man. He will likely be the one to be with you until the end unless you let Nathan destroy your marriage. It is a choice YOU have to make. He wants to let go of this chaos but you want to continue it. There has to be a way to work it out or the differences will likely end your marriage. Trust me, your son will not be with you when you are sick or in trouble or lonely. Once our kids are grown in my humble opinion it's not necessarily a good choice to put a wayward adult child above a spouse. I almost did...you read my story.

Being strong is to me knowing when to let go. It's easier, or it was for me, to keep enabling Kay than to give her to my God. So in my opinion its easier to hang in there when adult kids are doing negative things than to show them the consequences of what they do.

This is a big concern I shared withbyou. Kay could die. She had threatened suicide many times.They usually don't die. But they can. You could die too in some car accident. Your hubby could maybe get sick.

We can not keep another person alive. We can't.

I hope your focus becomes on yourself. I don't want you to be me in 8 years. Trust me. We can't control our wayward kids. But we sure give them the power to control us. And not in a productive ways.

Blessings.

 

[Mirabelle]

Dear YogiLori,

I am so sorry for what you are going through. I can feel your suffering leaping off the page. Everyone who has commented has already given some EXCELLENT advice. I have been where you are (in fact I'm mostly still there.)

I have the same sadness and concern that heavy marijuana use has changed my son for the worse. He is 21 but has the foresight and maturity level of a 16 year old. Like your son, he knows everything, and he doesn't have much use for us when he is pretending to be a grown up and getting high whenever he chooses.....no job, no responsibilities, just living the life. When the consequences of his bad choices come home to roost, he suddenly plays the lost little boy again. And as his parents we are supposed to put up with his crap and kiss his boos boos.

I noted that you spoke of feeling guilty in regard to how sad your son must have felt when you refused to have him home. I have to say, it sounds as though you and your husband have given him countless opportunities to do better with your loving support. What could he really expect you to do? You know what he wants you to do, but no one in the real world would put up with that abusive and trauma inducing behavior. And although the friend's father that he is staying with is ready to have him out, you said it is not because he is misbehaving, but because it is time for him to move on. This is evidence of him being able to control his behavior when it is in his best interest.

Our son was not really abusive to us, but very petulant and dishonest. He consistently failed to follow rules he swore he would abide by every time he came home. No drugs, no staying up all night, get a job, pull your weight. Not one of these things ever happened, despite countless opportunities and loving support. If our son were still in our home, he would be behaving in exactly the same way, because there would be no impetus to do better. I suspect the same is true of your son. As unnatural as it sounds, my husband and I came to the conclusion that we were helping him more by putting him out than letting him stay. He had stolen our peace and exploited our kindness for long enough.

I'll have to cut my response short there but I am so glad to hear that you are seeking help and doing things for yourself because you have suffered a lot and you are worth the time!! Please keep posting - it really helps!

Mirabelle

 

[YogiLori]

Dear YogiLori,

I am so sorry for what you are going through. I can feel your suffering leaping off the page. Everyone who has commented has already given some EXCELLENT advice. I have been where you are (in fact I'm mostly still there.)

I have the same sadness and concern that heavy marijuana use has changed my son for the worse. He is 21 but has the foresight and maturity level of a 16 year old. Like your son, he knows everything, and he doesn't have much use for us when he is pretending to be a grown up and getting high whenever he chooses.....no job, no responsibilities, just living the life. When the consequences of his bad choices come home to roost, he suddenly plays the lost little boy again. And as his parents we are supposed to put up with his crap and kiss his boos boos.

I noted that you spoke of feeling guilty in regard to how sad your son must have felt when you refused to have him home. I have to say, it sounds as though you and your husband have given him countless opportunities to do better with your loving support. What could he really expect you to do? You know what he wants you to do, but no one in the real world would put up with that abusive and trauma inducing behavior. And although the friend's father that he is staying with is ready to have him out, you said it is not because he is misbehaving, but because it is time for him to move on. This is evidence of him being able to control his behavior when it is in his best interest.

Our son was not really abusive to us, but very petulant and dishonest. He consistently failed to follow rules he swore he would abide by every time he came home. No drugs, no staying up all night, get a job, pull your weight. Not one of these things ever happened, despite countless opportunities and loving support. If our son were still in our home, he would be behaving in exactly the same way, because there would be no impetus to do better. I suspect the same is true of your son. As unnatural as it sounds, my husband and I came to the conclusion that we were helping him more by putting him out than letting him stay. He had stolen our peace and exploited our kindness for long enough.

I'll have to cut my response short there but I am so glad to hear that you are seeking help and doing things for yourself because you have suffered a lot and you are worth the time!! Please keep posting - it really helps!

Mirabelle

Mirabelle - You literally have written EXACTLY what has happened and how I feel. I am so grateful that you and others responded because I have felt so alone in my community. All of my son's friends have got it together and are in college or working and living on their own. As I was driving home just now from teaching my yoga class my son called for me to help him with a job application. A night stocker at Walmart. Since weed he has become nocturnal. And, I am not sure how he will make millions like he wants stocking at Walmart but it is a start. He asked me, "what if they drug test?" I of course replied, "well, you obviously cannot pass a drug test so you better find out." He also had to list his DUI on the application. All of this stuff is stuff he is going to have to face. We have told him again and again and again........but he knows everything. This is the lessons life teaches and he would not even apply if he were home. We would be arguing and as you say, he would be destroying our peace. I have no idea how he intends to GET to work cause his drivers license is revoked till 12/22. I have a sinking feeling he will ask my husband and me to pick him up and take him........another NO.........sometimes I find myself anticipating scenarios that stress me out. But, I have had to learn to be ready all the time with our unpredictable and volatile kid. I am happy he is applying.....maybe he'll ride his bike in the cold dark night???? Thank you so much for posting - this forum is life saving for me

 

[YogiLori]

I will continue to believe that we can not "help" these adults and that all we do is get used and abused while they are pitied by us. Fact is, they are not children and if they won't work to get money to support themselves in my opinion it is best to write down the homeless shelters for them and phone numbers on how to apply for state benefits. Give it to them maybe so they can learn what life is like if they refuse to join society and its rules. Some like being homeless. Many leave our safe homes for the streetsveven when we offer them a place to live.

You have another child too. I decided that my other kids deserved peace.

Your husband is so important if you love him and he is a good man. He will likely be the one to be with you until the end unless you let Nathan destroy your marriage. It is a choice YOU have to make. He wants to let go of this chaos but you want to continue it. There has to be a way to work it out or the differences will likely end your marriage. Trust me, your son will not be with you when you are sick or in trouble or lonely. Once our kids are grown in my humble opinion it's not necessarily a good choice to put a wayward adult child above a spouse. I almost did...you read my story.

Being strong is to me knowing when to let go. It's easier, or it was for me, to keep enabling Kay than to give her to my God. So in my opinion its easier to hang in there when adult kids are doing negative things than to show them the consequences of what they do.

This is a big concern I shared withbyou. Kay could die. She had threatened suicide many times.They usually don't die. But they can. You could die too in some car accident. Your hubby could maybe get sick.

We can not keep another person alive. We can't.

I hope your focus becomes on yourself. I don't want you to be me in 8 years. Trust me. We can't control our wayward kids. But we sure give them the power to control us. And not in a productive ways.

Blessings.

Thanks for sharing that and you are soooooo right. I have been very preoccupied with our son and it takes away from our relationship. I am turning the page and giving it to God again and again and again. It is like an every hour process sometimes. There is such a part of me that I recognize I would like to control and I just can't. Its a vulnerable and scary feeling. I need to do it and I will!! There have been a few kids in our neighborhood that got into drugs and parental fights in high school and two of them died by suicide. They were both students of my husband in middle school. Our son was good friends with one of them in childhood. They came from loving families and were smart kids. I have feared that about mine. And, I know in my heart we have done everything - EVERYTHING - too much to help him. It has been enabling and it has finally stopped. I am going to post something I read today that struck me so deeply....about letting go. I love when you read exactly what you need to when you need it!!! Blessings

 

[BusynMember]

Our adult.kids live a rough life. They are at higher risk for being robbed, hurt or killed
.Suicide is actually a risk for all troubled people, even those living with parents.

My daughter, when she lived at home, still snuck out at night and ran the streets when we were sleeping. She has been beaten up, robbed and she claims raped although that is not something we 100% believe since she kept describing the rapist with a different appearance. And changed how it happened.It is not beyond her to say that to guilt us so that we give her stuff. The cops were not sure it really happened either. She lies like she breathes. All these adults share some similar traits.

I have a Serenity Prayer necklace.

 

[Nandina]

I have no idea how he intends to GET to work cause his drivers license is revoked till 12/22.

Lori, my son does not have his drivers license but he at one time lived in transitional housing close to the school where he worked in the cafeteria and rode a bike to work. We did pay for the bike to get him started. It was not that expensive. We always advised him to find housing that is on a bus line. Actually, one reason living in our home will not work (other than we are done with that) is we are not on a bus line, and it’s too far and dangerous to ride a bike (or walk) to work.

He is currently living out of state and has a decent job, although I don’t know how he is getting there. In the past, he has had to pay someone to drive him.

Your son can do the same things. These are natural consequences of his bad choices. Let him figure it out.

You are doing great and I truly get what you are going through. Love and hugs

 

[YogiLori]

Lori, my son does not have his drivers license but he at one time lived in transitional housing close to the school where he worked in the cafeteria and rode a bike to work. We did pay for the bike to get him started. It was not that expensive. We always advised him to find housing that is on a bus line. Actually, one reason living in our home will not work (other than we are done with that) is we are not on a bus line, and it’s too far and dangerous to ride a bike (or walk) to work.

He is currently living out of state and has a decent job, although I don’t know how he is getting there. In the past, he has had to pay someone to drive him.

Your son can do the same things. These are natural consequences of his bad choices. Let him figure it out.

You are doing great and I truly get what you are going through. Love and hugs

Good morning, yes he rode his bike to lifeguarding all summer. He knows. He called me yesterday to get help on a background check he was filling out. Apparently he is getting a full-time stock person night job. From 10pm-7am. This is actually perfect to keep him out of some trouble. This will be his first REAL JOB - he has been lifeguarding for 4 summers and has done well. But in this job obviously he will have to show up, do the work etc etc. I hope it happens. I do know that the only way he will learn is through life experiences, not anything we tell him! I do feel a little better knowing he is applying for jobs and asking for help.........it is a roller coaster ride for sure.

Hugs to you!

 

[Nandina]

Looking for work (and asking for help) is an encouraging sign! Baby steps…I hope he continues to make progress. He may surprise you. Sometimes a kid having a job and making their own money gives them a sense of pride and independence. It seems to do that for my son. Best wishes to you!