I'd like to talk about acceptance

[Childofmine]

Yes, indeed - 20 is young. And old.

And my son is now nearly 25 (two months from now). When is he old enough? At what age do we say, we're done?

Several years ago, my sweet mother said I was rushing him too fast to grow up. She said kids these days take longer than they used to. I remember feeling completely exhausted on hearing those words from her. I feel like I have been raising difficult child forever, and he never gets raised.

I would agree with what my mother said, though, and I am sure there are multiple reasons why. One is that many were treated as "too precious" children. I know I treated my sons that way. There were two of them and two of us. We should have had three kids---then I don't believe I COULD have over-focused on them both so much.

But that is not why my son is a drug addict. My overprotectiveness and enabling did not make that happen. I do feel like my overprotectiveness has contributed to his aberrant behavior and continual pushing on me to make things happen in his life. That's because I ran interference for years. I taught him that.

Today, my dear sister has her 28-year-old son living at her house, still, and her 23-year-old daughter. They are SLOWLY moving out of the nest, and one reason for the delay is that my sister and her husband have made it very possible and attractive for them to stay. It's not good for any of them, and I hope it will change soon, but that's their deal.

I agree with Witz here. I think we don't like to feel cold and harsh and draw a line in the sand with our adult children, but sometimes maybe that is what is needed.

I am slowly moving into a new place to stand called accepting what is, and recognizing that things are not likely to change. I am no longer expecting and hoping and waiting every day for difficult child to change. I want that to be my state of mind.

He still can change of course, and it would be great (beyond great) if that ever happens. But in the meantime, I am going to expect things to stay like they are, realizing they can get worse or better. That is a big shift for me and it feels like it is right to work toward this direction for myself.

 

[SeekingStrength]

I agree. It took me much longer.

For a year and a little more, i believed difficult child HAD changed. He and his girlfriend had moved to a town he loved and to which he always hoped to return. They had saved about $3000 to make it happen. They rented a nice apartment (not fancy, but much better than husband and i lived in back when!). They had a cat and a dog and referred to each other as "mom" and "dad" when referencing the pets. girlfriend had a good job; difficult child had two part time jobs. One of his jobs was with the downtown association. difficult child has a felony and many misdemeanors. He seemed to have a life way better than i ever expected. And, i had prayed, so i was very ready to believe those prayers had been answered.

It was a temporary facade. Before long, it was the same old, same old.

So......i am accepting. His outlook on the world did not change, his sense of entitlement---as strong as ever. He is smarter than any therapist, so he believes.

I never, ever wanted to accept this for him. But, I am getting there...fairly quickly, considering the 15 years i drug my feet.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I don't know if
it even has anything to do with age, but for me, hope left and then I began to feel better.

The last time we helped difficult child daughter and it all fell apart, we felt a less bitter kind of betrayal. Hope...I still have hope that she can reclaim what was lost. Part of that hope is that at some level, some part of me still believes there was not an element of choice involved in this, for difficult child. That she did it again, I mean. That as coldly as I am choosing, now, to pull myself together and survive whatever it was that happened to my family...difficult child chose to go the way she did, betraying her children and herself (and us) to do so.

At some level, even today, I am not letting myself see the depths of that betrayal.

When I do, and that time is coming, I will be free of it.

Finally, free of it.

One of the reasons I always tell folks to get therapy, or counseling or some kind of real support is that this process cuts deep and it goes beyond our
difficult child's, it goes to the core of our issues of control, guilt, expectations, self
worth..........so much of our self esteem can be wrapped around our kids
and when they fail or struggle, we mothers go through the agonies of the
damned attempting to separate what is the truth with what our own
expectations of ourselves and our kids are. There are a lot of layers to
unravel as we pick apart the cords that bind us to our children.

This is fantastic, Recovering.

Thank you.

"Inner peace
begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to
control your emotions."

Ok. So that's a boundary issue. Inner peace would come from trusting myself, from believing myself about what I see, about what I think I know. When it comes to my kids, that takes more courage than I have, sometimes. I am learning. Stings, though.

And the question becomes how this could all have happened. The answer has to be "It is what it is."

It's trying to figure out how it happened and fix it that keeps us trapped.

It seems to me
it is a perceptual shift out of our suffering and into acceptance, it's a
matter of how we perceive it all.

nothing has changed for my difficult child, but everything has changed for me.

My son is not going to change. He does not want to. He does not say that hewill try to change. He will say that he loves me and I believe him. He knowsthat I love him.

Oh, this is such a crummy thing to admit, but I think I only love the idea of my kids. I think I do not let myself see (or do not take seriously) the worst things. Just like I rationalized my son's verbally abusive behaviors.

All I know to do is to aim for health.

I am getting there.

I believe most parents never have to let go of their beautiful illusions regarding their children. That is why they call it mother love.

All those years dedicated to them and their lives. It's time to let them dedicate themselves to their livesand dedicate ourselves back to our own. When they can be a pleasant part of it that's appropriate.

Witz, you hit at the heart of things with this post.

It goes back to that thing about mourning something we never had. I do mourn the holidays that were never so perfect as I'd hoped. I mourn all the Hallmark moments I'm missing and etc.

Excellent post, Witz. The more times I read through it, the more clearly I see things I only whizzed through, the first few times I read those lines.

There is permission there to choose freedom from all of this. The thing is? I wanted, and worked for, so much more.

An appropriate part of self kindness may be to discover a ritual to honor myself for each of those times when I wish everything was the way I wanted it to be. Something simple. Maybe, light a candle honoring the beauty of the illusion.

After all these years, I know the missing everyone healthy and together ~ especially at the holidays and stupid football games! ~ is not going to go away. Perhaps honoring those feelings, instead of trying to stuff or ridicule them, will allow them to rest easy.

Cedar

 

[Echolette]

Oh, this is such a crummy thing to admit, but I think I only love the idea of my kids

Cedar, I am always appreciate your honesty in saying this. I sometimes feel trapped by the assertions on the forum that we all love our kids. I am not sure I love my difficult child. For a long time I felt terribly responsible for him, in an almost holy way. Then the power of anger and fear felt a lot like the power of love. With those feelings receding....I am not sure there is much left, except a little sadness, and a little repugnance. I don't want to have to say I love him.

It isn't crummy. It is real. I agree with you that the concept of mother love comes in large part from the world of mothers who weren't challenged as we have been.

More anon.

Echo

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I feel like I have been raising difficult child forever, and he never gets raised.

One is that many
were treated as "too precious" children. I know I treated my sons that way. There were two of them and two of us. We should have had three kids---
then I don't believe I COULD have over-focused on them both so much.

But that is not why my son is a drug addict. My overprotectiveness and
enabling did not make that happen. I do feel like my overprotectiveness
has contributed to his aberrant behavior and continual pushing on me to
make things happen in his life. That's because I ran interference for years. Itaught him that.

Excellent points. Sometimes, we need someone else to say what we refuse to allow ourselves to think.

Somewhere in the deepest heart of me, I do blame myself for the addictions. Bad genetics, or that I wasn't able to protect my children the way other parents must have been able to teach and protect theirs.

Thank you, COM. Even now, even after all this time, I am not able to forgive myself for what happened to my kids. But you are right. While I did enable, and while it is true that I focused so single-heartedly on my kids...I am not solely responsible for their drug use or addictions.

I still need to work on this part.

I am slowly moving into a new place to stand called accepting what is, and
recognizing that things are not likely to change.

I am slowly moving into a new place....

I like that.

I can do that.

I want that to be my state of mind.

When we can see where it is that we want to get to, we can focus on that place, on that set of feelings.

Great post. Very helpful to me, COM.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

More anon.

:O)

I love this.

Cedar

 

[Echolette]

I'm going to add, for those here on the forum who have only difficult children and no PCs...my PCs are growing up and pulling away from me too, as they must. I can see that there will be a time when I miss them desperately at holidays and football games too. It unfolds as it must, an ache in our hearts, a necessary part of life. No mud no lotus.

Echo

 

[recoveringenabler]

It's trying to figure out how it happened and fix it that keeps us trapped.

This is a futile experience Cedar. It doesn't matter. What would we do if we knew......blame someone, blame ourselves....... We'll likely never know and we certainly can't fix it. I think part of acceptance is accepting that this is our life, this is what is, not only with our kids, but simply what we've been given in this life. I think here's where the perceptual shifts occur...........for instance I watched a group discussion where folks who had cancer and healed from it discussed their journeys. Whether you believe it was a spontaneous healing or God's will, or medical science triumphed, the bottom line was that every single one of these people at one point in their journey began to shift their perception from this sucks to this is a "gift." Every single one of them used that word, a "gift." It changed their lives in ways that they began to recognize their lives needed to change. I am not saying this is right or wrong or anything, just reporting what I observed. I thought it was very interesting. A perceptual shift.

And, just today I was talking to a woman who is going through some major upheaval in her life. She said to me, "this is a gift. This has prompted me to go deeper, to learn more, to allow this to take me somewhere I've never been before."

As I've mentioned before, I look at life's struggles as a lesson...........I unravel it from that perspective, looking for what I need to learn. I've observed that over time as I begin to see the lesson for what it truly is and I learn it, it dissipates. That's how I've approached this process with my daughter, that it had something to teach me.............it's been filled with great learning for me, so many changes, so many new thoughts, so much growth.........it has NOT BEEN EASY, but it has been rich with learning. I am a different person then I was just a few years ago..........in many ways I feel that if I can learn to let go of the attachments I have with my daughter, if I can learn to accept her the way she shows up, then, really, I can do anything. This is the hardest thing I've ever, ever, ever had to do or thought I would ever do.........and, for all intents and purposes, I'm doing it.

I believe most parents never have to let go of their beautiful illusions regarding their children. That is why they call it mother love.

I completely agree with you Cedar. And, we here do have to let go of our illusions. And, it sucks. However, once we have that illusionectomy, we are able to see clearly in all areas, not just with our kids.............. our hearts are more opened because the kind of sorrow we face here blows the heart wide open..........and we can have compassion for another without stepping in to "save" them thereby NOT creating a one-up position for ourselves...............and we've learned to love without attachment............without expectation............without guilt.........without judgement...........without fear..............those parents with their illusions don't have to learn any of that..............and perhaps they are lucky in their blindness, but I don't believe that to be true.....................life beats us all up, no one escapes that, but some of us can stand up and say I loved fully and without reservation, without fear............illusions require work to hold it together...........when you let go, there is nothing to hold on to, you're free...........

I am an avid believer in the Buddhist concept of our suffering being caused by our attachments.............. and how we feel about our kids has got to be an extremely huge attachment to SO much, their achievements, their happiness, their lifestyle, their choices, their education, the way they turned out as people who are kind, giving, smart, funny............on it goes. I've had to let go of ALL of that .........and then some. All of it. And, then some. Way hard. And yet..............freeing...........relief..........comfort............deep breathing........release of worry and anxiety about how it is supposed to be, how it should be............it's over.

Inner peace, in my opinion, comes when we allow...............we simply allow life.........we don't have preconceived ideas about how it is supposed to be or should be, it just is and whatever shows up, we allow it to blow through us and breathe it in and let it go. I am not talking about violence or abuse.............that is not okay, I am talking about what we cannot control, what we try to control, what we have to control out of our own fears............

I am slipping in to all of this now..........I may not be verbalizing it clearly, I don't know..........I'm trying to describe a new kind of sense I have now.............and clearly, I learned this from this process with my daughter............

Here is an analogy that may make this clearer.........one of my brothers is a pilot and years ago we used to fly his small plane around for fun. Before lift off, I would be sitting in the plane as he walked around doing the final pilot check. At that point, this two seater plane was tethered to the ground by large cables as the engine was running. One time I was watching my brother do his check, waiting to take off and I thought to myself, "gee, this is how my life is, I am ready to take off, but I am stuck tethered to the ground." At that point in my life, with so much family responsibility, that felt so real.

Well, recently, if I use that same analogy, those cables are now falling away.

The cables in my story are attachments, fear, control, guilt, expectations, judgement, our need to have life show up the way we want it to, or need it to.............

My daughter didn't show up the way I wanted her to. There are a million ways I can respond to that. The choice I continue to make is to learn.........to allow..............to open to what is ...............and to accept.

Somewhere in the deepest heart of me, I do blame myself for the addictions. Bad genetics, or that I wasn't able to protect my children the way other parents must have been able to teach and protect theirs.

I know. I understand why we do that. But it is wrong thinking, there is no blame. All of those books I read by Chodron really emphasize blame of ourselves and others is a way we try to find a ground to stand on when the ground we stand on disappears or shakes or blows up. Don't do it Cedar. You did your best. That's all any of us can do. It's over, they are grown now. With all our real and imagined wrong doings, they are whole and complete human beings on their own journey.............let it go. Let it go. Blame means punishment..........let it go. You didn't do anything wrong. No one here did. We are human, we make mistakes.........we correct them and move on, we don't spend the rest of our lives correcting our kids.........that's their job now.

You pass the baton on to them, they run the rest of the race, not us. Let it go.

I am not able to forgive myself for what happened to my kids

It's time to forgive yourself. Remember that profound experience you had when you forgave the man who beat up your daughter? Well, you deserve that forgiveness too, you deserve your own forgiveness for all that you did and didn't do.......and for it not turning out the way you wanted.............well, it turned out the way it did, your son is away on his journey and as you said, your daughter is adventuring...............there is nothing for you to do..................so forgive yourself across the board for all real and imagined wrongdoings, for everything.........because like me and everyone here, you did the very best you could and now........it's over. It's time to move on. It's time to let go. It's time to forgive yourself and allow yourself to feel that profound relief to know you are free of the burden of self blame. Let it go Cedar.

There is permission there to choose freedom from all of this. The thing is? I wanted, and worked for, so much more.

But what you wanted and worked for is that illusion..........the Ozzie and Harriet stuff.........no one really lives that, those illusions are born out of our childhood dreams of something more then what we have as children, especially if we grow up in dysfunctional families............those illusions are killers Cedar.........we can't maintain them........they are not real...............everyone struggles and has sorrow.......some more then others.......... it is just time to let go of that illusion and all the disappointments that created for you..............time to look behind you and release the past with love................and turn your sight to this moment right now..........where everything is really, quite okay. And, if it isn't, then change what you can and let go of the rest. (The serenity prayer............)

It's time for us to be on our own journey like your son, to go adventuring, like your daughter, to be free to do whatever it is that you want to do...........Let's do it.

 

[pasajes4]

Tethered- It is the perfect word to describe this season of my life. I am a 60 year old woman who is ready to move onto a life free to travel, find love, experience new things before the aging process starts limiting my physical ability to do so.
I am tethered by fear. The fear that I will be in emotional bondage to my 17 year old long past the time the natural separation of us and them takes place. That time when you know that they have the skills to do for themselves and deal with life good or bad. I saw that day coming with my other two children. It is a bitter sweet time of life. I just don't see even a spark of it with F. His separation into adulthood will feel more like the removal of a bad tooth ........ painful but necessary.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Iam tethered by fear. The fear that I will be in emotional bondage to my 17year old long past the time the natural separation of us and them takes
place.

His separation into adulthood will feel more like the removal of a bad tooth ........ painful but necessary.

Pasajes, could you provide more detail regarding the separation process with your PCs? That term "emotional bondage", and the fear that this will occur with this child but that it did not occur with the others...is it possible for you to describe the difference between the kinds of attachment / detachment for easy child and difficult child kids?

I had always believed there was some genetic something that prevented us from moving past the mothering stage until the child was capably independent. Is that what you are describing with the term emotional bondage? That kind of weird inability to separate our responsibility to the child that was from our responsibility to the criminal, addicted, or mentally ill adult?

Is it possible for you to describe what that process looked like for your easy child kids? I think we might have had that for a time with both our kids. In looking back on it now, I see that there was appreciation for us, there. Sort of just a happy to come home, so happy to see them feeling. There were mates, and a sense of the future.

Then things seem to blow up again.

Interesting that you should have posted as you did just after Recovering's post about guilt and forgiveness.

It would be an incredible thing, if I were able to truly forgive myself for what has happened. Something about that term "emotional bondage" rang so true for me, pasajes.

"Long past the time the natural separation of them and us takes place"

My tethers would be emotional bonds from two directions ~ from the continuing boundary permeability with my abusive mother, and from the searching-for-a-reason-why-this-happened-and-blaming-and beating-myself up-for-it with my kids. Which somehow, through those permeable boundaries (which you name emotional tethers), works in with the condemnatory mother and the black and white of the perfection piece.

If it isn't perfect, it is contemptible, worthless, fraudulent.

That belief, that brokenness, would open a vulnerability to my own abusive mother. Which it did. I have posted about it, before. I did not see it as ongoing, but of course, it is.

Emotional tether.

Incredible imagery.

Thank you both.

Cedar

 

[recoveringenabler]

I had always believed there was some genetic something that prevented us from moving past the mothering stage until the child was capably independent.

Cedar, that sounds like the crux, the root of what many of us feel. I think that is a fallacy. Certainly one promoted by society and our own sense of parental responsibility, duty or guilt, but that doesn't make it real.

Truthfully, I don't feel that anymore. I think that thinking is false. I believe there is a 'season' to parenting, a time, an experience we are granted to help form and guide a soul to it's adulthood. Once that soul reaches adulthood, whether that's 17 or 23, it doesn't have to be 18 or 21, that soul is on it's own. Adulthood may happen to kids at different ages, however, I don't believe it goes much beyond 25. That's when the brain is fully formed.

"Capably independent." If we feel that our kids are incapable and dependent then we continue with our parenting. I've done that. I don't want to do that anymore.

I think when a easy child gets to a certain point,we no longer feel they are incapable and dependent because they have shown us their capabilities and their independence.........so we can safely let go. But if we continue seeing our kids in the light of incapable and dependent, then it seems, we would hold on to them and not let go.

What if they are capable and independent, but not in the way we think is right? For instance, panhandling, living under a bridge, living in a shelter, being in jail. Those are likely to be ways of living we don't believe are 'right' but what if they are 'right' for our kids and we keep trying to mold them into what we perceive as 'right,' so we don't let go?

Just some thoughts and reactions to your post. I have no answers, just inquiries into my own process so I can see it clearly.

I don't want those tethers holding me back anymore. I believe, for me, that I am the only one who can free me, I can't wait until my daughter is independent and capable in the way I see those words. I have become willing to see her as capable and independent in the world she has chosen to live in. The chasm between her world and mine is very wide. It is no longer my job to build a bridge between them...........it's okay for her to live over there...............it's her choice. My choice is to unhook those tethers and fly.

 

[CrazyinVA]

I have become willing to see her as capable and independent in the world she has chosen to live in.

This. This is acceptance.

We really have to let go of all of it -- the expectations, the guilt, the resentment, the disappointment -- and accept our kids where they are, right now. This is who they are, who they've become. We don't have any responsibility to them, any more than we would if they were PCs - do any of us think that our own parents were responsible for us when we were 26, or 30?

Their lifestyles, their morals, their choices are not ones we would have chosen for them. They're certainly not ones we'd choose for ourselves. But that's ok - because we're not them. We deserve our own happiness - and that happiness does not have to be dependent on what our kids are doing at any particular moment. It doesn't really matter if we don't like it -- it matters if we like ourselves, and what we are doing with our own lives. Acceptance is partly about a shift in focus -- focusing on our own needs instead of theirs - especially when it's really just our *perception* of their needs.

Overly simplistic again, maybe - but I tend to think in simplistic ways these days. It helps when I feel like I'm getting sucked back into the drama.

 

[nlj]

Acceptance is partly about a shift in focus -- focusing on our own needs instead of theirs - especially when it's really just our *perception* of their needs.

This strikes a chord with me. My son is happy in his life. It's me who's not happy with it. He doesn't think he needs anything, he thinks his lifestyle is the ultimate in idyllic utopia (except when he needs cash for something or his cellphone paid for). The trouble is that my own needs include knowing that my kids are all safe and healthy, so it's really difficult to completely separate his needs from my needs.

 

[CrazyinVA]

The trouble is that my own needs include knowing that my kids are all safe and healthy, so it's really difficult to completely separate his needs from my needs.

I understand, I've been there. The thing is, that is still putting the focus on him (or any of your kids) instead of yourself. What you're really saying is, you need him to be safe and healthy, in order for you to be happy. But you have no control over that, and If your happiness is dependent upon something you can't control, you're bound to be let down, over and over.

This is one of the things I had to work really hard on in therapy, so I understand it's not easy to get to. But I think it's another important piece of the acceptance journey.

 

[Childofmine]

I know it sounds harsh COM, and for our mother's hearts it can be a devastating blow........there is so much to let go of to get there.......but yes, I think that is exactly what it is. Somewhere between the ages of 20 and perhaps 25 or maybe 30, our influence or control over their lives is over. We can certainly keep on keeping on, but to what end?

It does sound harsh. It sounds harsh when I think it and when I write it and when I say it. But I believe it is true and real. I am working to live with that without becoming harsh myself.

I agree with CiV and MWM that it has nothing to do with what WE like or dislike or expect or don't expect, it is completely about letting go of anything that we can't control. Having expectations that don't get met creates disappointment and heartache. Makes more sense to me to give up the expectation.

We can't control anything. Will we EVER get that through our heads?

So much of it, for me, has been about letting go of my judgment, my opinions about what is right and what is wrong............... how do I get to decide that for another human being? They may have a fate that I cannot possibly understand or know about...................their 'soul growth' is personal between them and their higher power, I am not privy to that.

I judge a lot. I don't like that about myself at all. I like it less and less as I work on me. Now, I practice driving down the street, looking at all of the houses and businesses and people up and down the street and recognizing, recognizing actively, that they have lives that are all their own and they make choices all their own and that is right and just and has nothing to do with me and my values and decisions. May we all just accept each other, somehow. I believe accepting my difficult child starts and ends with accepting other people, regardless. That is what I am working on. It is much bigger than difficult child.

From that point I started to realize that misery is optional.

It is optional. That is the hope we can grasp onto. We will continue to experience pain, but we don't have to suffer. We can take the pain in, we can turn it over and over in our hands and our hearts and our minds. We can look at it, accept it, learn from it, and then we can choose to go on, better people for it. Whether it's a business failure, or the death of our aging parents, or a friendship that ends, or that difficult child is in jail again, we can take it in, feel it, claim it, own it, learn from it, and then work to let it go.

Underneath the control we believe we have, is our fear.

I believe this absolutely. When you unpack it all, at the bottom of the suitcase is fear. We are afraid of what we can't control and can't foresee and can't prepare for. So we scurry around trying to control and manage and fix so there will not be things we can't control and we can foresee the future and we can be prepared for it. Doesn't work. Just doesn't. The opposite of this is acceptance. That does work, and it's worth working toward. It's the pathway to peace.

I think - for myself & M, anyway - that deep down I still wish he was 3 years old and I could do something different to make him more self-assured and confident. That's fantasy thinking.

Yes I do too Witz! I know that my difficult child never felt comfortable in his own skin. Is there something I could have done differently to help that? I don't know.

It's a problem with my own perception that makes me wish he would change, and in fact it's quite selfish of me to feel that somehow he has to live his life to my standards, but I do.

Yes, who do I think I am that I should expect anyone to live life as I see it. What arrogance in me.

It's what makes it so hard to talk to him. That's on me.

It does, and it's hard to be with difficult child and have to listen to a bunch of bs. Now, I put a stop to it very quickly. I say, I don't want to talk about that.

I look back now and I see all of the kisses and hugs and encouragement that I didn't give that I should have.

I did shower difficult child with all of that Witz. I left my full time job to work part time when he was born. I was with him, and coddled him, and babied him and was present with so much love for him. This still happened. My love could not stop it.

A second answer is to recognize that you suffer, that you are suffering. It is a strangeness that every spiritual tradition teaches that suffering opens the spirit.

It does, Cedar. Suffering does open the spirit and has made me a better person. But holding on to suffering would not. I am working to let go of my suffering, having transformed it and allowed it to transform me. That is my work.

I can't seem to end the judgment.

Wow, this is such a burden on me, the way I judge others. I want to stop it.

if we don't call it out does that mean we condone it? what if no one ever calls anything out? where is the line? He is still in my circle, in my community if you will...aren't we supposed to try to help our community be the best they can?

The law will stop it. The law will call it out. So will other people, who set limits on unacceptable behavior. That is the calling out. We don't have to talk it anymore. We can do it. We can set limits and boundaries and what we will spend time listening to and doing. When we do that, we are silently saying: Enough. And then, we are able to love and be compassionate and gentle and kind. You, Echo, said you were doing well until you started seeing him too much. Me too. I can offer my best to him when I can limit myself with him, right now. That is sad, but that is how it is. As I grow and let go of my judging and learn to accept more, I believe I will be able to spend more time. I hope.

what do I say when he talks about using drugs, or stealing food, or tapping into some one else's electric system, or begging? I guess that is almost the crux of the crisis for me...what do I say then?

You say: I don't want to talk about that. You change the subject. He KNOWS all of that is wrong. How many times have you told him? How many times has society told him? Too many. We demean them and ourselves by continuing to repeat old truths. They know it, already. They don't choose to do it. When will we GET that?

What a great thread. I am reading it all again and learning so much. Thank you.

 

[pasajes4]

Scent of Cedar, My oldest two did not have any health problems or any psychiatric issues. The oldest son is dyslexic but extremely bright. They had both parents in their life even though we were divorced. Both developed meaningful friendships and had goals for their life. They accepted limits and learned from their mistakes.

Youngest did not have his father in his life at all. He is an alphabet soup of disorders. He had a mother that was full of guilt. There it is the crux of it all. My guilt. He learned to use it to his advantage and I did not stop it. It became a cancer that took over my life. The treatment is painful. I must acknowledge my part in this. I must change the pattern of our interactions and my responses to him. I must conquer my fear and anxiety and let him learn to navigate through life. I must believe that he is capable and stop assuming that he is not.

 

[BusynMember]

RE, you did it again. I haven't read this thread for a few days and then I do and you have hit the nail on the head for me once again. And you made me feel good and validated (thank you) because my life's philosophy has become just that...it is what is it. Life is short, enjoy every day with gusto. Blah, blah, blah. I have never been so at peace as I've been since I've found these Buddhist practices which you can also find by learning about Mindfulness in Dialectal Behavioral Therapy.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I believe accepting my difficult child starts and ends with accepting other people,
regardless. That is what I am working on. It is much bigger than difficult child.

Yes. The things I am coming to understand go to the heart of who I am. I have been angry and ashamed for so long that somehow, I got all twisted up, got all identified with that.

Maybe the first step is: It is what it is.

Whether it's a business failure, or the death of our aging parents, or a
friendship that ends, or that difficult child is in jail again, we can take it in, feel it,
claim it, own it, learn from it, and then work to let it go.

We can. Once we can see where we are. That is the hard part.

This still happened. My love could not stop it.

This is an important piece, COM. My questions had to do with where I had failed, with what was the matter with me.

"This still happened. My love could not stop it."

This is beautiful.

There is a kind of courage in that statement. My love could not stop it. Not a frantic scurrying for how I was wrong or bad or less than. The truth is that I did love my children. I do love them.

This still happened. My love could not stop it.

Simple, and clean.

We can do it. We can set limits and boundaries and what we will spend
time listening to and doing. When we do that, we are silently saying:
Enough. And then, we are able to love and be compassionate and gentle
and kind.

In addition, there is the truth that what we pay attention to we will get more of. For myself, I will say that everything became identified through the problems, through the losses and wrongnesses. I kept trying to find a way to be better than I was, kept trying to see where and how I'd created this vulnerability in my children.

"This still happened. My love could not stop it."

I love that.


Guilt. That is what that phrase addresses.

Everything gets to look very different, when I am not choosing the victim's stance; when I am no seeing through the victim's stance of either guilt or shame.

As I grow and let go of my judging and learn to accept more, I believe I willbe able to spend more time. I hope.

We demean them
and ourselves by continuing to repeat old truths.

Yes! By continuing to repeat old truths, and by continuing to rework old, failed patterns.

I must acknowledge my part in this. I must change the pattern of our
interactions and my responses to him. I must conquer my fear and anxiety and let him learn to navigate through life. I must believe that he is capableand stop assuming that he is not.

Yes. For me, this is the nature of detachment. To take responsibility for my part in creating this twisted dependency/resentment.

"I must believe that he is capable and stop assuming that he is not."

Cedar

 

[in a daze]

I understand, I've been there. The thing is, that is still putting the focus on him (or any of your kids) instead of yourself. What you're really saying is, you need him to be safe and healthy, in order for you to be happy. But you have no control over that, and If your happiness is dependent upon something you can't control, you're bound to be let down, over and over.

Thank you, CIV!. I continue to try to separate my happiness from HIS happiness. It's not easy, but I think I'm getting better at it.

 

[Echolette]

This whole chain made me feel better, as I said somewhere in the middle. But it falls apart when I see him. I can only accept him in his absence. His presence makes me squirm, makes me tighten up, makes my heart harden, I resent the way that I behave, the way I feel, the way I AM when he is with me. I resent him for being.

I do believe I am pretty good at accepting what is when is absent.

He called and left me a voicemail on mother's day. (I am not a big celebrator of holidays, so that was fine...his easy child twin, who is in college 2000 miles away, texted me something sweet, and that was fine too. His easy child brothers, who live with me, went to the zoo with me at my request.I spent the rest of the day alone, and that was fine too.)

He called again the next day to wish me happy mother's day and say he was sorry he had missed it...I said that is OK, your phone message was nice. He was surprised, and said "I left a message? what did I say?" and then I flipped to anger. As always, the call had interrupted me...this time I was making dinner, and shifted to trying to do it with one hand when he called. When I realized he must have called "under the influence" the day before I got mad, and got off the phone as quickly as possible, just saying I was in the middle of dinner.

He called again today, and said he had something for me and could he come over (I took the day off from work, having coordingated a variety of handymen to come fix things around the house). I said OK, even though it felt intrusive, because I thought he was just dropping something off. When he got here he said he wanted to talk..and I said "that isn't what you said, I thought you were just bringing something over". He was dirty, greasy hair, dirty hands, shredded jeans, and carrying a nearly empty backpack, wheeling a bike with a flat tire. I told him I wasn't in a good place for a talk (some of the handymen weren't working out and I could feel my irritation building--never a good recipe for a productive or kind conversation with him). He started anyway--this is classic for him, he is a very slow processor and has trouble changing paths. I interrupted and said I didn't want to talk, and that having him in my house was making me uncomfortable...he pushed for why, and I said he was dirty. He countered with "what do you expect, I live under a bridge, I'm going to be dirty, I'm working on that". You get the drift..we went around a few times..he said he didn't feel that I accept him for who he is. I said something along the lines of it is hard for me to accept your choices, and it makes me uncomfortable to be in your presence. And I reminded him again that I didn't want to talk. At that point he said he understood and went to leave. I remembered that his Christmas gifts from my siblings were still here, and that they hurt my heart a bit to see every day, so I gave them to him, with an edgy comment about how they care about him...he said he cared about them too, at which point I pointed out that he hadn't come for Thanksgiving, or his brother's birthday. I said "it isn't a one way street".

When he got to the door he talked a bit about his bike tire, and how he needed money and I said "hmmm." Then he said "I love you Mom" and I said I love you too. And he said...we'll leave it at that.

He can be kind that way.

it is the continuing choice to stay open in each moment, to be present in each moment and make my choices with my boundaries intact but my heart opened. That is the hardest thing for me to do. And, that is what I am committed to do because I do believe that is where there is peace

I cannot stay open when he is in my presence. I feel myself shut down, get angry and hard and miserable and afraid. I have made no progress on that front.

Into a shocking obscenity.
This does not give us the right to turn away. We do not have the capacity to set ourselves free of it, for the most part. We are their mothers.
So, we need to figure out, coldly and decisively and without looking back, how to survive it.

The survival for me is to stay away from him. But that feels like turning away. I don't feel OK with that either.

There is something *not right* at the cellular level. What does it feel like, look like, to accept that?

I don't know. How can I accept my son, love my son, when he is in front of me and his whole being declares his cellular "not right ness?"

Hope and acceptance are like apples and oranges.

When he isn't with me I can let go of hope. When he is in front of me I feel compelled to challenge, to not accept.

Let go let go let go and work on myself.

I feel like its a bit circular when I find myself quoting myself?

So here I am again, aching heart, disappointed in myself, afraid for him. Derailed, fighting back tears.

And he didn't even do anything. He didn't want anything. He wants me to accept him. For now that is beyond me.

And that is where we are today.

Thank you, friends of the forum, for reading along.

Echo

Oh, the "I have something for you, Mom" was a broken flower he had picked up and put in his backpack. The stem and all the petals were off but he gave me the pieces anyway, saying he had tried, and it is the thought that counts, and he was sorry he hadn't done anything for mothers day. I put it in the compost bin. Because I am not OK with that.