I'm sorry you're dealing with this ... in our area, Legal Aid will take on SpEd issues. I haven't ever tried it, but the wife of a colleague is a legal aid attorney who handles civil cases and that's a big part of her case load. For Holden, I was able to get better compliance/cooperation once I started muttering "FAPE" - as in "sure there's a voucher program, but if you aren't complying with his IEP or can't show improvement, then you can pay the full cost of private school". Of course, you need to have to have some sort of real alternative, which I know isn't there for everybody.
It was UGLY...
- Thread starter buddy
- Start date
myeverything04
New Member
I completely agree with this!! You are the most educated person I know on this forum and I know you do all you can. I'm sorry I can't offer much advice as I'm all new to the "school" issues but just wanted you to know that I fully support you and think you do a great job! I don't know if you have ever thought about homeschooling him... my guess is that you have but I can imagine it would be very hard and stressful on you. Please keep us informed as I'm curious to see what happens with this situation. Hugs all around and hope things turn around
buddy
New Member
Thanks, for sure not the most educated on this forum but certainly old, lol....
Yeah, I can barely get him to read five minutes a day so doubt I would survive our doing all schooling together, but after last summer which was really a great summer, I would for sure allow home bound schooling and lots more time at home. He has many therapy options for this year so would be really busy. I just feel like it is so unfair to him to have them do this and take away what he has worked hard to learn for the last two and a half years. They can handle four months of it. But if the principal is encouraging them to do things that set him up to fail (I can't tell you how many times they said he hits hockey pucks during one on one dape at people when they come in. UMMM , why in hell would you give a kid who has no judgement in those situations an actual hockey puck? I NEVER have stuff like that in my house, not even a nerf gun)
My legal advocate is from the division of legal aid that works with disabled people. They took his case the day I got to talk to a live person. I'm sure if I didn't have that he would have done even worse in terms of walking all over me. And the school psycho would never have shut up. He literally said not one word today. I loved it. He can just not attend if you ask me.
Yeah, I can barely get him to read five minutes a day so doubt I would survive our doing all schooling together, but after last summer which was really a great summer, I would for sure allow home bound schooling and lots more time at home. He has many therapy options for this year so would be really busy. I just feel like it is so unfair to him to have them do this and take away what he has worked hard to learn for the last two and a half years. They can handle four months of it. But if the principal is encouraging them to do things that set him up to fail (I can't tell you how many times they said he hits hockey pucks during one on one dape at people when they come in. UMMM , why in hell would you give a kid who has no judgement in those situations an actual hockey puck? I NEVER have stuff like that in my house, not even a nerf gun)
My legal advocate is from the division of legal aid that works with disabled people. They took his case the day I got to talk to a live person. I'm sure if I didn't have that he would have done even worse in terms of walking all over me. And the school psycho would never have shut up. He literally said not one word today. I loved it. He can just not attend if you ask me.
TerryJ2
Well-Known Member
Sorry, after I read about the principal calling the cops and making threats, it was all over. I couldn't even finish the note. I am SO sorry!!! How aggravating. How juvenile.
THIS is the way to go: We actually have specifically said in meetings that when he starts to talk nonsense (remember this like a grade K kid talking about these things) we say, oh Q, I am not going to talk about silly things, what else can we talk about.
THIS is the way to go: We actually have specifically said in meetings that when he starts to talk nonsense (remember this like a grade K kid talking about these things) we say, oh Q, I am not going to talk about silly things, what else can we talk about.
I am so sorry you are dealing with all. Get in contact with the superintendent ASAP who was helping you. You also need to remember you have that restraint issue you can use. (that it was not proper, not discussed with you and the false documentation you recently received) just remember you have that info that can harm this district.
I hope you can find a great solution for him. It is just a disgrace they are making things worse for him on purpose. I will never understand why ds act this way. (I have my own issues with ours too) they are suppose to want to help our kids but they make things worse on purpose and it makes me sick. Keep you armor and keep fighting the fight to get him the help he needs even if that is outside the district. Hugs.
I hope you can find a great solution for him. It is just a disgrace they are making things worse for him on purpose. I will never understand why ds act this way. (I have my own issues with ours too) they are suppose to want to help our kids but they make things worse on purpose and it makes me sick. Keep you armor and keep fighting the fight to get him the help he needs even if that is outside the district. Hugs.
Buddy,
I keep thinking. I'm guessing my brain will be churning on this for part of the night
But as a first cut... I'm wondering if the three of you (advocate, psychiatrist, and you) can make an appeal to the Super... to see what kind of workable creative solutions can be implemented that will...
1) work for Q for the remainder of this year
2) prep for whatever next year's plan will be, and
3) enable him to "complete" his year, associated with THIS current crop of kids, get his year book, and so on.
I do not believe that is too much to ask.
Just "saying" the whole get out of MY school thing... doesn't solve the what next problem... and the super knows that.
There is a short-term crisis, and a medium-term crisis, and a solution must be found for both - while still being fair to Q.
I keep thinking. I'm guessing my brain will be churning on this for part of the night
But as a first cut... I'm wondering if the three of you (advocate, psychiatrist, and you) can make an appeal to the Super... to see what kind of workable creative solutions can be implemented that will...
1) work for Q for the remainder of this year
2) prep for whatever next year's plan will be, and
3) enable him to "complete" his year, associated with THIS current crop of kids, get his year book, and so on.
I do not believe that is too much to ask.
Just "saying" the whole get out of MY school thing... doesn't solve the what next problem... and the super knows that.
There is a short-term crisis, and a medium-term crisis, and a solution must be found for both - while still being fair to Q.
buddy
New Member
Exactly. I am letting the law advocate gather her thoughts and consult. She said that there are several things they can really nail the district on and so that may force their hand. She also said to let him do what he threatens, Q is not a threat to the community and nothing he has done has ever been at a level of serious bodily harm, weapons or drugs.
I hate these people so much. SOOO MUCH And it is not in my character to feel like that so it is tearing me apart.
I hate these people so much. SOOO MUCH And it is not in my character to feel like that so it is tearing me apart.
In which case... sit down with the PD and explain the situation, so that IF they DO get a call from the school, they already know what to expect, and can come in with a whole different approach?
And then, if you can get the PD on-side, is there a really friendly officer that Q can meet with a couple of times (yes, in full uniform etc) and adapt to the fact that these police guys are nothing for him to be afraid of?
Marguerite
Active Member
Also if you can get the PD on side, maybe they can get across to difficult child that some topics of conversation need to be avoided except with immediate family...
Marg
Marg
buddy
New Member
They have police right in the school. They would just use her.
Pretty sad, I probably made things worse tonight. Q heard me on the phone even though I had gone in my closet to talk. He freaked out about my saying the name of the Special Education school. He said he was going to pay them all back etc. After a fit and his breaking my light switch on the wall in my room I got him to sit down and talk. Every time he started saying things like he is going to make the dog take the blame etc... I again said, no nonsense talk, this is serious.
I told him I didn't want him to talk to the psycho or the counselor anymore. Q told me that the psycho has been telling him he is there to help him and he can say whatever... so Q says literally...WHATEVER and also says nonsense stories. These things are all documented as if he is really deeply disturbed. Nevermind no testing has ever shown anything like that, no one who works with him in any other setting has thought that or thinks that, but since he can't carry on such conversations because he just says whatever comes to mind that engages them. that has always been shown in testing and daily anecdotal data. He never maintains a topic and has an awful time taking turns in a conversation. He just brings up any topic he can imitate or that he has said over and over and gets a reaction. if you dont attend to it, he moves on to something else like nascar or baseball.
He said he is going to tell them the dog and another kid really said all those things, I said this is the kind of nonsense talk that your school thinks means you are not a good match for them. I said, I want you to stay there and do a great job. I know you can. He said (like he says every day) well tomorrow I will turn it all around and be good all day. he said he destroyed his room again, well those are the words they used with us so clearly that is what they are telling him he is doing...
He ripped a book and tipped his table. (they taught him to rip things for calming, I TOLD them he will nto stick to a box of recycled paper he will rip everything but they didnt' listen to me at all so now he rips his notebooks, assignments etc.)
He didn't destroy his room, he messed the room and nothing is broken. Nothing has ever been broken there but that is how they tell the principal so he says he is ruining school property. He cleans up the room each and every time.
I told him it has to stop. That I can't defend him if he does this because the truth is the principal doesn't understand. He said he is going to tell him to leave him alone because he doesn't understand. It is so hard to support him because he says things this way then and then they say he is being awful to them. I told him that if he had worries or concerns he can talk to his counselor at the therapy place we are going to.... he said well psycho is the only one who he will tell things..... I had to then say to him, it is ok to tell him any fun things you want to tell him. But he is not really helping us right now. I know Q is going to tell him that. But I really dont care now. I told him that he can just say no thank you if they ask if he wants to talk. BUT that does not mean he can ignore the teachers when they talk about his school work .
I wouldn't have even told Q anything but he saw me crying and got agitated then when he snuck up the stairs and hit behind the wall he heard me on the phone. when I first told him that I was just talking to my friend he said I know you are hiding something. He got so out of control I decided to just tell him part of what was up.
I sure hope I didn't just seal his coffin. I doubt anything would turn out differently anyway. I just said I am doing all I can to support him but I need him to try to keep his thoughts in his thinking bubble better. No more telling stories and nonsense talk to any of the teachers. Only talk about school stuff. I know he can't but maybe it will slow it down a little. Q was very calm by the time he went to bed. He actually said that he is just going to talk to the private counselor.
I doubt that will happen but at least he is calm now and not full of anxiety. We were even making jokes about things totally unrelated by the end of the night.
Pretty sad, I probably made things worse tonight. Q heard me on the phone even though I had gone in my closet to talk. He freaked out about my saying the name of the Special Education school. He said he was going to pay them all back etc. After a fit and his breaking my light switch on the wall in my room I got him to sit down and talk. Every time he started saying things like he is going to make the dog take the blame etc... I again said, no nonsense talk, this is serious.
I told him I didn't want him to talk to the psycho or the counselor anymore. Q told me that the psycho has been telling him he is there to help him and he can say whatever... so Q says literally...WHATEVER and also says nonsense stories. These things are all documented as if he is really deeply disturbed. Nevermind no testing has ever shown anything like that, no one who works with him in any other setting has thought that or thinks that, but since he can't carry on such conversations because he just says whatever comes to mind that engages them. that has always been shown in testing and daily anecdotal data. He never maintains a topic and has an awful time taking turns in a conversation. He just brings up any topic he can imitate or that he has said over and over and gets a reaction. if you dont attend to it, he moves on to something else like nascar or baseball.
He said he is going to tell them the dog and another kid really said all those things, I said this is the kind of nonsense talk that your school thinks means you are not a good match for them. I said, I want you to stay there and do a great job. I know you can. He said (like he says every day) well tomorrow I will turn it all around and be good all day. he said he destroyed his room again, well those are the words they used with us so clearly that is what they are telling him he is doing...
He ripped a book and tipped his table. (they taught him to rip things for calming, I TOLD them he will nto stick to a box of recycled paper he will rip everything but they didnt' listen to me at all so now he rips his notebooks, assignments etc.)
He didn't destroy his room, he messed the room and nothing is broken. Nothing has ever been broken there but that is how they tell the principal so he says he is ruining school property. He cleans up the room each and every time.
I told him it has to stop. That I can't defend him if he does this because the truth is the principal doesn't understand. He said he is going to tell him to leave him alone because he doesn't understand. It is so hard to support him because he says things this way then and then they say he is being awful to them. I told him that if he had worries or concerns he can talk to his counselor at the therapy place we are going to.... he said well psycho is the only one who he will tell things..... I had to then say to him, it is ok to tell him any fun things you want to tell him. But he is not really helping us right now. I know Q is going to tell him that. But I really dont care now. I told him that he can just say no thank you if they ask if he wants to talk. BUT that does not mean he can ignore the teachers when they talk about his school work .
I wouldn't have even told Q anything but he saw me crying and got agitated then when he snuck up the stairs and hit behind the wall he heard me on the phone. when I first told him that I was just talking to my friend he said I know you are hiding something. He got so out of control I decided to just tell him part of what was up.
I sure hope I didn't just seal his coffin. I doubt anything would turn out differently anyway. I just said I am doing all I can to support him but I need him to try to keep his thoughts in his thinking bubble better. No more telling stories and nonsense talk to any of the teachers. Only talk about school stuff. I know he can't but maybe it will slow it down a little. Q was very calm by the time he went to bed. He actually said that he is just going to talk to the private counselor.
I doubt that will happen but at least he is calm now and not full of anxiety. We were even making jokes about things totally unrelated by the end of the night.
Steely
Active Member
OMG....this story just continues to make me more and more enraged. It is like you are living my life, all over again, and once again there is no one there to stop the cycle. I am just so sorry....I have been there done that too many times to count. I just wish I could make it stop for all of us. There just has to be a better way.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Have you ever contacted your state's Dept. of Education? I had to do that to get proper services for Sonic. After the person in charge of special needs heard about the runaround I was getting, he called the school. I don't know what he said, but we got what we wanted the next day and my son was treated like a prince after that...lol.
The Dept. of Education decides which districts get federal funding so they have power. There is also an office of civil rights. Not sure where it is in MN...in WI it is in Chicago. I called them too. I think I could feel the Special Education director shaking in his boots. THAT really mobilized him into action. Q. has a right to a free and appropriate education, and these people can help you. Be sure to mention how you were threatened. I found that working within the district is often useless...they have one another's backs, not yours.
The Dept. of Education decides which districts get federal funding so they have power. There is also an office of civil rights. Not sure where it is in MN...in WI it is in Chicago. I called them too. I think I could feel the Special Education director shaking in his boots. THAT really mobilized him into action. Q. has a right to a free and appropriate education, and these people can help you. Be sure to mention how you were threatened. I found that working within the district is often useless...they have one another's backs, not yours.
pasajes4
Well-Known Member
When my son gets out of juvie, we will be doing battle with the school for not providing the approriate services. My son compounds the issue with his behavior. This does not excuse them for not providing him a "free and appropriate education". I feel your frustration. The system has to change. The damage they do to our kids will destroy them and everyone who loves them. (((((HUGS))))
B
Bunny
Guest
Buddy, I am so sorry that the meeting went that way. I have no words of wisdom for you. Just wanted to say that I'm sorry.
SearchingForRainbows
Active Member
difficult child 2 used to hear me talking too no matter how hard I tried to keep him from hearing things. I basically did what you did, told difficult child 2 that he was to only talk about school related issues to all school staff, especially to his adjustment counselor (a total (w)itch!!). I also told difficult child 2 that if teachers, etc., pressed him for information, he should tell them to contact me. I told him whenever he felt uncomfortable not answering a personal question, he should tell whoever asked him the question to call his mother for the answer. I'm sure, just like you think Q will, difficult child 2 told school staff his mother told him not to tell them anything personal. This didn't matter to me.
To my surprise, this was one of the best things I could have done. difficult child 2 was comfortable not talking about anything personal once he rehearsed his standard line enough times - "I don't know, you'll have to ask my mother about this." No longer could the staff twist his words, make them into something he didn't mean. The one down side to this was that when difficult child 2 was uncomfortable, after he repeated his standard line, he would immediately begin rambling about primates. To this day, difficult child 2 uses the same coping mechanism.
I am so very sorry for Q... for you... As has been said so many times, you're a fantastic mom (an understatement!!), doing everything possible to help your son. I feel the pain, frustration, anger... and understand... Just don't have any answers but wish so much I did.
I am confident that Q is going to get what he needs. He has you on his side. Hang in there. The road ahead is a rocky one but you'll get through this. Hugs... SFR
T
TeDo
Guest
Wouldn't it be awesome if Q would just say "I'm not going to talk to you because you don't understand". THAT would be priceless.
LET them drive you down to file the complaints. It NEEDS to be done so they will work with you. The principal "implied" that he could make your life a living h*** if you don't move him. He needs to know that YOU can make his worse. He needs to be knocked down a few pegs. His ego has gotten too big.
LET them drive you down to file the complaints. It NEEDS to be done so they will work with you. The principal "implied" that he could make your life a living h*** if you don't move him. He needs to know that YOU can make his worse. He needs to be knocked down a few pegs. His ego has gotten too big.
rejectedmom
New Member
Buddy, Sorry I am coming in a late here. I took a couple of days off from the board.
I am so sorry your dealing with this garbage and I have been in your shoes. It seems that as our difficult child's get older the SD's become less and less tolerant of their behaviors. To the adminisration our difficult child's are no longer "cute" little kids with problems they are near adults with troubling behaviors. It is not fair, it is not right but it is a fact of life.
My difficult child was a victim of zero tolerance. He traded his video games with a boy for a BB gun. He knew we would not allow him to own a BB gun so he hid it in his back pack and took it to school. He never took it out of his pack. He never threatened anyone with it. Unfortunately another student saw it in the pack and told on him. My son was expelled, a comprehensive evaluation by the school psycologist was ordered. He labled as my son as Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and painted a very black future for him. Juvie was called in and my son was now on record and had a PO and was sent to an alternative school. His teachers were in tears saying what a good polite kid my son was etc. They did not agree with what happened to him.
The thing is it was not the police who went after him They were willing to let it go. It was the school principal who decided he should make an example of difficult child. difficult child had only been back to the public schools for 6 weeks at that time after being taken out in the third grade and sent to private school.
Lucky for us the alternative school was a good school with small classes, whole class teaching, and very decidated teachers. It was the kind of educational environment my difficult child could thrive in. Without that I sincerely doubt my son would have ever gotten a HS diploma.
The down side was that difficult child met other troubled kids at that school and being easily led he got into alot of trouble from there on out. I do think he might have used drugs and most likely would have shoplifted even if he didn't go to that school (he never could resist things he wanted but that didn't belong to him due to no impulse control). Never the less I believe being in that setting and hanging with other troubled kids sped things up and made it cool to be baad.
Home schooling was out of the question for me. difficult child had no respect for me and would not learn from me. I could have sent him back to the private school he had been in before but It had just been involved in a huge scandal and lost it accreditation. The founder had forged his crdentials The teachers had formed a colition and were trying to gain control of the school and the funding so the future of that school was uncertain. Also difficult child would have had to take the GED for a diploma since theier's was not recognized. I knew difficult child most likely would not pass a GED test because of his concentration problems so I let him go to the alternative school. I also could have fought the placement on the basis that his behavior was a manifestation of his diagnosis and might have won but I knew the principal was gunning for my son and would eventually find a reason to get rid of him anyway.
As parents of challenging children we are often faced with very difficult decisions that more times than not are a choice between the worse of two evils. Fair and "right" doesn't even factor in when it comes to the beauracricies we are forced to deal with. That said I do have concerns for you.
If you do homebound schooling you will not have a break from Q. You are already showing signs of exhaustion. How will you manage? It is too easy as a mother to sacrifice ourselves for our children. At some point we do have to factor ourselves back into the equation.
Q is 15. In my state they can only stay in the schools till 20 no matter how handicapped and at 18 they go to the closed SP ED setting anyway. I think to make your decision as to how hard you are going to fight a principal and teachers that have it against your child, you must take a very realistic look at what the best possible future is for Q given his disabilities. If in the grand scheme of things little will change in his future if goes to the alternative placement then sending him there to preserve your health and sanity is an OK thing to do.
I am sending you many hugs and lots of support. I am all choked up as I type this. I know what it is like to have your child persuecuted because of behaviors he cannot control. I wish there were more autism villiges around and that they didn't cost so much. There is one in Montgomery County MD I read about a few years back. Check it out and see what you think. Being an educator, maybe you could get a grant to start something similar by you...
I am so sorry your dealing with this garbage and I have been in your shoes. It seems that as our difficult child's get older the SD's become less and less tolerant of their behaviors. To the adminisration our difficult child's are no longer "cute" little kids with problems they are near adults with troubling behaviors. It is not fair, it is not right but it is a fact of life.
My difficult child was a victim of zero tolerance. He traded his video games with a boy for a BB gun. He knew we would not allow him to own a BB gun so he hid it in his back pack and took it to school. He never took it out of his pack. He never threatened anyone with it. Unfortunately another student saw it in the pack and told on him. My son was expelled, a comprehensive evaluation by the school psycologist was ordered. He labled as my son as Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and painted a very black future for him. Juvie was called in and my son was now on record and had a PO and was sent to an alternative school. His teachers were in tears saying what a good polite kid my son was etc. They did not agree with what happened to him.
The thing is it was not the police who went after him They were willing to let it go. It was the school principal who decided he should make an example of difficult child. difficult child had only been back to the public schools for 6 weeks at that time after being taken out in the third grade and sent to private school.
Lucky for us the alternative school was a good school with small classes, whole class teaching, and very decidated teachers. It was the kind of educational environment my difficult child could thrive in. Without that I sincerely doubt my son would have ever gotten a HS diploma.
The down side was that difficult child met other troubled kids at that school and being easily led he got into alot of trouble from there on out. I do think he might have used drugs and most likely would have shoplifted even if he didn't go to that school (he never could resist things he wanted but that didn't belong to him due to no impulse control). Never the less I believe being in that setting and hanging with other troubled kids sped things up and made it cool to be baad.
Home schooling was out of the question for me. difficult child had no respect for me and would not learn from me. I could have sent him back to the private school he had been in before but It had just been involved in a huge scandal and lost it accreditation. The founder had forged his crdentials The teachers had formed a colition and were trying to gain control of the school and the funding so the future of that school was uncertain. Also difficult child would have had to take the GED for a diploma since theier's was not recognized. I knew difficult child most likely would not pass a GED test because of his concentration problems so I let him go to the alternative school. I also could have fought the placement on the basis that his behavior was a manifestation of his diagnosis and might have won but I knew the principal was gunning for my son and would eventually find a reason to get rid of him anyway.
As parents of challenging children we are often faced with very difficult decisions that more times than not are a choice between the worse of two evils. Fair and "right" doesn't even factor in when it comes to the beauracricies we are forced to deal with. That said I do have concerns for you.
If you do homebound schooling you will not have a break from Q. You are already showing signs of exhaustion. How will you manage? It is too easy as a mother to sacrifice ourselves for our children. At some point we do have to factor ourselves back into the equation.
Q is 15. In my state they can only stay in the schools till 20 no matter how handicapped and at 18 they go to the closed SP ED setting anyway. I think to make your decision as to how hard you are going to fight a principal and teachers that have it against your child, you must take a very realistic look at what the best possible future is for Q given his disabilities. If in the grand scheme of things little will change in his future if goes to the alternative placement then sending him there to preserve your health and sanity is an OK thing to do.
I am sending you many hugs and lots of support. I am all choked up as I type this. I know what it is like to have your child persuecuted because of behaviors he cannot control. I wish there were more autism villiges around and that they didn't cost so much. There is one in Montgomery County MD I read about a few years back. Check it out and see what you think. Being an educator, maybe you could get a grant to start something similar by you...
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buddy
New Member
Thanks for sharing your story. Such a disservice to your son. I am sorry for that. Here he stays thru 12th grade then gets transition thru 21.... transition is individualized depending on his needs... he will likely be in independent living and work sills classes)
I am not open to an EBD setting to warehouse him. I asked what the licensure and certification of the teachers were and they tried to side step it so I need to find out if they have had a few autism classes or if they are truly autism trained. I have been duped before and I dont want it to ever happen again. If he did homebound he would not be being taught by me... I would bring him to the teacher or she could come to our home.
He would still go to school related services.
I am not stressed by HIM, I am stressed by these people. I am used to him, we have moments I want to strangle him as most parents do...but I have never, not even one day felt like I didn't want to do it anymore.
I am not open to an EBD setting to warehouse him. I asked what the licensure and certification of the teachers were and they tried to side step it so I need to find out if they have had a few autism classes or if they are truly autism trained. I have been duped before and I dont want it to ever happen again. If he did homebound he would not be being taught by me... I would bring him to the teacher or she could come to our home.
He would still go to school related services.
I am not stressed by HIM, I am stressed by these people. I am used to him, we have moments I want to strangle him as most parents do...but I have never, not even one day felt like I didn't want to do it anymore.
