It's who I am
- Thread starter Nancy
- Start date
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Signorina
Guest
Ditto what nancy said. Not at all pg!! 
P
PatriotsGirl
Guest
Phew!! I meant what I said to her. As long as she is trying to change her life, I will support her a thousand percent. But if she chooses to go back to killing herself, I cannot be a witness to that and I won't.
T
toughlovin
Guest
I don't accept or support the drug use either.... however I have accepted that his drug use IS his decision and his choice. It is not mine, will never be mine, and i can't do anything about it. To me drug use is not really a moral issue... there are plenty of people who smoke pot or drink and I have no problem or moral judgements about that. My sons drug use is a symptom of serious substance abuse issues as well as some underlying psychiatric issues and to survive he is going to eventually have to face those issues and get help for them.... When and how is his choice.
However the lying and stealing (and Nancy these two issues were a problem WAY before the drug use) are moral issues and is where our values really differ. And yes it is hard for me to imagine that those values of his will change since they have always been there no matter how hard I tried to teach him differently. To me those things are just plain WRONG and I do make moral judgements about people who lie and steal.
And yeah most of the times these days I don't like my son very much. I love him very much but I don't like who he has become.
TL
However the lying and stealing (and Nancy these two issues were a problem WAY before the drug use) are moral issues and is where our values really differ. And yes it is hard for me to imagine that those values of his will change since they have always been there no matter how hard I tried to teach him differently. To me those things are just plain WRONG and I do make moral judgements about people who lie and steal.
And yeah most of the times these days I don't like my son very much. I love him very much but I don't like who he has become.
TL
This is an interesting conversation and I appreciate it a lot. It's been a long road for me to make distinctions with these issues. I think for me, acceptance is about accepting the person my daughter is, to really look at her and accept her for who she is separate from me and my aspirations for her. And then, there are behaviors which are not in my realm of thinking as morally 'right.' It took me awhile to be able to distinguish that and to not just be angry at her for not doing the right thing. I guess when I say acceptance, I mean accepting her in spite of the choices she makes.
I recall a time in therapy talking about myself and my experience of feeling shamed as a kid. The therapist said that my parents did not make a distinction between my behaviors, which they may have felt were wrong, and ME, so that I grew up thinking there was something inherently wrong with ME, as opposed to my behaviors. It feels bad to feel that way, I didn't want to do that to my difficult child. So, I have tried to make a distinction for myself, with my daughter's behavior and my daughter and who she is. I didn't want to keep making her wrong for doing things which she couldn't help doing. Acceptance for me is about having compassion for her, recognizing that she is different then I am and because of some brain anomaly she may make bad choices. I don't have to like her choices or accept them as okay. I started to understand what she meant when she said I didn't accept her for who she is.
For me, therapy has helped me to see that part of the issues with my difficult child relate to me, not her. My control issues, my codependency issues, my fears, my enabling, are my issues and dealing with those has helped me to be able to more effectively deal with my daughter's issues too. One aspect of that has been my somewhat harsh judgements of myself, which then translates outside of myself and onto others like my difficult child. In learning acceptance of myself, it was so much easier to learn acceptance of her.
I am in no way suggesting that other parents here on this board have issues which need to be addressed in therapy, I am only speaking for myself and my experience. I've needed help to unravel my own 'stuff' and heal from that. This is how I look at it, not to say I am 'right' simply my own feelings and experiences.
This therapy group I'm in now, which primarily deals with codependency issues with (mainly) parents of kids who are either substance abusers or mentally ill, has helped me immeasurably because it's given me the tools and the understanding to recognize my issues, deal with that, and then use the tools I've learned to deal with my daughter. Just having a space where I can talk about these issues and get feedback not only from the therapist, but from other parents going through essentially the exact same feelings that I am going through, is an amazing support and has kept me not only afloat these last few months, but relatively calm and free of that debilitating worry that use to keep me up all night.
This thread began with that worry Nancy was going through. For me, so much of that has been worry about things that haven't happened yet, the "what if's." That's the part I've begun to let go of, waiting for the other shoe to drop. I've learned that codependents are motivated by fear, fear is the basis for all my worry and I've spent so much time worrying about stuff that actually never happened! When I add that all up and realize how much actual time that's been, it gives me a real incentive to stop that behavior! And that part, I can change. I can't change my difficult child and the choices she makes, but I can change me and the unnecessary worry I go through. And, I can shift my feelings about my difficult child by my acceptance of her which makes both of our lives much more peaceful and comfortable.
I've learned that my difficult child has a brain which fires very differently then mine does. My therapist tells me that it is not that different with people who are substance abusers since their brains are changed because of the drugs and their reactions and choices are then impacted by those changes. That information helped me to separate the choices my difficult child was making, with who she is as a person. Once I was able to do that, I could accept her. The choices are what I have to keep boundaries around.
I recall a time in therapy talking about myself and my experience of feeling shamed as a kid. The therapist said that my parents did not make a distinction between my behaviors, which they may have felt were wrong, and ME, so that I grew up thinking there was something inherently wrong with ME, as opposed to my behaviors. It feels bad to feel that way, I didn't want to do that to my difficult child. So, I have tried to make a distinction for myself, with my daughter's behavior and my daughter and who she is. I didn't want to keep making her wrong for doing things which she couldn't help doing. Acceptance for me is about having compassion for her, recognizing that she is different then I am and because of some brain anomaly she may make bad choices. I don't have to like her choices or accept them as okay. I started to understand what she meant when she said I didn't accept her for who she is.
For me, therapy has helped me to see that part of the issues with my difficult child relate to me, not her. My control issues, my codependency issues, my fears, my enabling, are my issues and dealing with those has helped me to be able to more effectively deal with my daughter's issues too. One aspect of that has been my somewhat harsh judgements of myself, which then translates outside of myself and onto others like my difficult child. In learning acceptance of myself, it was so much easier to learn acceptance of her.
I am in no way suggesting that other parents here on this board have issues which need to be addressed in therapy, I am only speaking for myself and my experience. I've needed help to unravel my own 'stuff' and heal from that. This is how I look at it, not to say I am 'right' simply my own feelings and experiences.
This therapy group I'm in now, which primarily deals with codependency issues with (mainly) parents of kids who are either substance abusers or mentally ill, has helped me immeasurably because it's given me the tools and the understanding to recognize my issues, deal with that, and then use the tools I've learned to deal with my daughter. Just having a space where I can talk about these issues and get feedback not only from the therapist, but from other parents going through essentially the exact same feelings that I am going through, is an amazing support and has kept me not only afloat these last few months, but relatively calm and free of that debilitating worry that use to keep me up all night.
This thread began with that worry Nancy was going through. For me, so much of that has been worry about things that haven't happened yet, the "what if's." That's the part I've begun to let go of, waiting for the other shoe to drop. I've learned that codependents are motivated by fear, fear is the basis for all my worry and I've spent so much time worrying about stuff that actually never happened! When I add that all up and realize how much actual time that's been, it gives me a real incentive to stop that behavior! And that part, I can change. I can't change my difficult child and the choices she makes, but I can change me and the unnecessary worry I go through. And, I can shift my feelings about my difficult child by my acceptance of her which makes both of our lives much more peaceful and comfortable.
I've learned that my difficult child has a brain which fires very differently then mine does. My therapist tells me that it is not that different with people who are substance abusers since their brains are changed because of the drugs and their reactions and choices are then impacted by those changes. That information helped me to separate the choices my difficult child was making, with who she is as a person. Once I was able to do that, I could accept her. The choices are what I have to keep boundaries around.
I don't come in here often, but this thread spoke to me. My difficult children have had minor run-ins with substance abuse but it's run its course (although I had an alcoholic mother, and two ex-husbands who were alcoholics, so I'm well versed in SA/codependency/Al-Anon). But, I understand all too well what Nancy is feeling.
This comment struck me:
Acceptance isn't about accepting their behavior. I'll never accept that kind of behavior, either. But I'll accept that I can't do a dang thing about it, and it's not my choice, it's theirs. Acceptance is coming to the realization that despite your best efforts and intentions, you cannot change anything about your difficult child's (or anyone's) behavior. We have to accept that, whether we like it or not, or live a life full of misery (in my opinion). You can only change one thing: you. And that is incredibly difficult. I personally couldn't have done it without good therapists along the way. RE hit on what I have worked on for years. My issues with my difficult children are just that: mine. I believe in my way of living life. My difficult children believe in another way. They are not me, they're not even an extension of me. They are who they are, and they are adults and make their own decisions, even if those decisions sometimes end up being horribly dangerous (sometimes dangerous to my grandkids). The only person I was making an impact on with all my worrying and fretting and well-intentioned advice-giving was ME. I was falling apart: stressed out, heart palpatations, chest pain, depressed. All because of someone else's behavior. My worrying was accomplishing nothing and many times, acting on that worrying only made my difficult children' behavior worse. I *had* to learn to fix that in myself, even though it was a pattern long-ingrained in me.
So, it may be who you are now. But it doesn't have to be who you are forever. Working on it isn't easy, though. It's downright painful.
This comment struck me:
Acceptance isn't about accepting their behavior. I'll never accept that kind of behavior, either. But I'll accept that I can't do a dang thing about it, and it's not my choice, it's theirs. Acceptance is coming to the realization that despite your best efforts and intentions, you cannot change anything about your difficult child's (or anyone's) behavior. We have to accept that, whether we like it or not, or live a life full of misery (in my opinion). You can only change one thing: you. And that is incredibly difficult. I personally couldn't have done it without good therapists along the way. RE hit on what I have worked on for years. My issues with my difficult children are just that: mine. I believe in my way of living life. My difficult children believe in another way. They are not me, they're not even an extension of me. They are who they are, and they are adults and make their own decisions, even if those decisions sometimes end up being horribly dangerous (sometimes dangerous to my grandkids). The only person I was making an impact on with all my worrying and fretting and well-intentioned advice-giving was ME. I was falling apart: stressed out, heart palpatations, chest pain, depressed. All because of someone else's behavior. My worrying was accomplishing nothing and many times, acting on that worrying only made my difficult children' behavior worse. I *had* to learn to fix that in myself, even though it was a pattern long-ingrained in me.
So, it may be who you are now. But it doesn't have to be who you are forever. Working on it isn't easy, though. It's downright painful.
Calamity Jane
Well-Known Member
You're all incredible, eloquent, and thoughtful. I just wish your experience, insight and eloquence could somehow influence our SA difficult children. Is that asking too much? Is that too controlling?? sigh.
<sigh>
Calamity Jane.
You know the saying... Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus?
Well... SA difficult children are from some other galaxy.
It doesn't matter how eloquent we get... they honestly do not understand.
S
Signorina
Guest
I am still pondering the whole acceptance thing...
and I think some of the disparity can be explained *a bit* by our difficult child's ages. It struck me (in reading these last few posts - haven't reread the whole of it) that there is a commonality between our "attitudes" that coincides with the ages of our difficult children...and even a bit with our relationships with our pcs...
I can only speak for myself, but I fully expected my difficult child to be somewhat dependent at age 20. We built the house we live in with having "adult children here" in mind. Fully expecting our kids (difficult child especially, though he was a easy child then) to come back home to live in between semesters, and maybe while in grad school. Certainly for a year or so post college. Regardless, the 18-22 years are usually transition years - between being dependent and independent -- and for myself (and I suspect a few others on this board) there was no transition. It was a cliff dive. So therein lies the struggle. It's normal to be patterning and influencing the path of a 18-22 (or even older) son or daughter to give them a healthy start into adulthood. It's part of the parental duty...in my world anyway. And my difficult child is certainly not on a healthy path...
So I sit on my hands, cover my mouth and hope that should I get that tiny glimmer that my kid wants and will accept my guidance (see PG's post on another thread, Kathy's post a few weeks ago) that I am ready to jump in with good and researched options,and give him the best advice.
I hope I am making sense
and I think some of the disparity can be explained *a bit* by our difficult child's ages. It struck me (in reading these last few posts - haven't reread the whole of it) that there is a commonality between our "attitudes" that coincides with the ages of our difficult children...and even a bit with our relationships with our pcs...
I can only speak for myself, but I fully expected my difficult child to be somewhat dependent at age 20. We built the house we live in with having "adult children here" in mind. Fully expecting our kids (difficult child especially, though he was a easy child then) to come back home to live in between semesters, and maybe while in grad school. Certainly for a year or so post college. Regardless, the 18-22 years are usually transition years - between being dependent and independent -- and for myself (and I suspect a few others on this board) there was no transition. It was a cliff dive. So therein lies the struggle. It's normal to be patterning and influencing the path of a 18-22 (or even older) son or daughter to give them a healthy start into adulthood. It's part of the parental duty...in my world anyway. And my difficult child is certainly not on a healthy path...
So I sit on my hands, cover my mouth and hope that should I get that tiny glimmer that my kid wants and will accept my guidance (see PG's post on another thread, Kathy's post a few weeks ago) that I am ready to jump in with good and researched options,and give him the best advice.
I hope I am making sense
T
toughlovin
Guest
RE - your discussion of acceptance of who they are vs their behavior rang very true for me and gave me some food for thought. I always felt absolute unconditional love from my mother, total acceptance for me no matter what.... but less so with my dad... that was more about what I did....Now I was a good kid and so I am not sure such an issue.
With my difficult child his behavior has always been an issue and as a parent you do have to correct and direct behavior so I could see that he may not feel acceptance from me although I try to let him know I love him unconditionally I don't think he believes it... and maybe to some extent its not totally true... or rather I love him unconditionally but I am not sure I like him unconditionally and from his point of view whats the difference? So my current path as a parent giving him options, but also setting boundaries but recognizing he needs to make his own decisions hopefully he can somehow get a sense of acceptance from me. I don't know.
I think my easy child daughter totally feels unconditional love from me but she has also never had behavior issues... and now she has the added view and knowledge that I still love her brother even though he has really made a mess of things!!
Sig... you make a good point. This age of 18-22 should be a transition period and yeah our kids jumped off a cliff and i had to kick my son out of the house and he knows he can not come live at home... and we have had to let him live on the street... Man that is so not the way it should be!!! It is definitely not the way I want it to be and it is painful and scary that that is where we are. I worry about his safety.... and so no wonder I get my back up a little when I feel like people tell me I need to let go or not enable him, when in fact I am letting him fall on his face more than any parent should at this age. It is what I have to do..... but my helping him look for options does make sense at this age. Thanks for that reminder.....
Last night my husband got some weird texts from difficult child, we are pretty sure difficult child sent them by mistake. Nothing overtly bad in them but they sounded to me like he was either getting or looking for drugs. Sigh... have not heard from him today and I think it will be another week or two before he is hopefully ready for treatment again.
TL
With my difficult child his behavior has always been an issue and as a parent you do have to correct and direct behavior so I could see that he may not feel acceptance from me although I try to let him know I love him unconditionally I don't think he believes it... and maybe to some extent its not totally true... or rather I love him unconditionally but I am not sure I like him unconditionally and from his point of view whats the difference? So my current path as a parent giving him options, but also setting boundaries but recognizing he needs to make his own decisions hopefully he can somehow get a sense of acceptance from me. I don't know.
I think my easy child daughter totally feels unconditional love from me but she has also never had behavior issues... and now she has the added view and knowledge that I still love her brother even though he has really made a mess of things!!
Sig... you make a good point. This age of 18-22 should be a transition period and yeah our kids jumped off a cliff and i had to kick my son out of the house and he knows he can not come live at home... and we have had to let him live on the street... Man that is so not the way it should be!!! It is definitely not the way I want it to be and it is painful and scary that that is where we are. I worry about his safety.... and so no wonder I get my back up a little when I feel like people tell me I need to let go or not enable him, when in fact I am letting him fall on his face more than any parent should at this age. It is what I have to do..... but my helping him look for options does make sense at this age. Thanks for that reminder.....
Last night my husband got some weird texts from difficult child, we are pretty sure difficult child sent them by mistake. Nothing overtly bad in them but they sounded to me like he was either getting or looking for drugs. Sigh... have not heard from him today and I think it will be another week or two before he is hopefully ready for treatment again.
TL
recoveringenabler,
I can't tell you how much your posts have helped me. It was one of your posts that made me finally be able to stop being mad at my difficult child. I had let my anger stop me from seeing her mental illness and the severity of her anxiety disorder. I spent many years thinking that she was doing drugs to spite us and could just stop if she really wanted to. I never really believed in the mental illness and thought her issues would go away if she would just stop drinking and abusing prescription pills. Now I believe that the substance abuse is a coping mechanism and won't go away until she gets treatment for the mental illness.
As you said in that post, once I accepted her for who she was our relationship changed. It's not perfect by any means but we are able to talk now and she is making a real effort. I'm glad we decided to give DBT a second chance.
husband and I are going to our first session tomorrow night with the counselor that runs the recovery center where difficult child goes to her Smart Recovery meetings. I am really looking forward to it.
I just wanted to thank you.
~Kathy
I can't tell you how much your posts have helped me. It was one of your posts that made me finally be able to stop being mad at my difficult child. I had let my anger stop me from seeing her mental illness and the severity of her anxiety disorder. I spent many years thinking that she was doing drugs to spite us and could just stop if she really wanted to. I never really believed in the mental illness and thought her issues would go away if she would just stop drinking and abusing prescription pills. Now I believe that the substance abuse is a coping mechanism and won't go away until she gets treatment for the mental illness.
As you said in that post, once I accepted her for who she was our relationship changed. It's not perfect by any means but we are able to talk now and she is making a real effort. I'm glad we decided to give DBT a second chance.
husband and I are going to our first session tomorrow night with the counselor that runs the recovery center where difficult child goes to her Smart Recovery meetings. I am really looking forward to it.
I just wanted to thank you.
~Kathy
I'm having trouble figuring out how to accept a drug addict for what she is and want a relationship with that. Seriously how do I do that. How can I accept her when she is doing drugs and drinking herself to death and putting innocent people in harm along the way.
I feel like I am the only one who doesn't get it.
Nancy
I feel like I am the only one who doesn't get it.
Nancy
S
Signorina
Guest
Nope, you are not the only one. And honestly, our kids are not at the stage where it is acceptable. I am sorry. Flame away if you must. But they are not adults and should be at a stage in life where parental guidance is accepted if not welcomed.
Nancy, I am not accepting the drug abuse. I am accepting that she is mentally ill and I now understand that she turns to drugs to feel better rather than to hurt us or because she thinks it is cool.
That does not mean I think it is okay. I will do anything I can to help her stop drinking and using drugs and if she willing to accept help with the mood and anxiety disorder then we will be there to help her do that.
If in the end, the treatment doesn't work she will have to learn how to live on her own the best way that she can.
What I was trying to say is that I finally accept that she will never be able to snap out of this and be a easy child.
Sig, my difficult child is about to turn 27. I think that there is a huge difference between where your difficult child and Nancy's difficult child are and where my difficult child is. At 20, I was still convinced that she would "outgrow" this phase and eventually turn into a easy child. I am now at the point that I just want her to have the best life she can have with her limitations. It will hopefully be drug free but I realize it is not something I can control.
That does not mean I think it is okay. I will do anything I can to help her stop drinking and using drugs and if she willing to accept help with the mood and anxiety disorder then we will be there to help her do that.
If in the end, the treatment doesn't work she will have to learn how to live on her own the best way that she can.
What I was trying to say is that I finally accept that she will never be able to snap out of this and be a easy child.
Sig, my difficult child is about to turn 27. I think that there is a huge difference between where your difficult child and Nancy's difficult child are and where my difficult child is. At 20, I was still convinced that she would "outgrow" this phase and eventually turn into a easy child. I am now at the point that I just want her to have the best life she can have with her limitations. It will hopefully be drug free but I realize it is not something I can control.
exhausted
Active Member
Thank you all for this discussion. I too am a worry wart-have lost soooo much sleep the last 3 and half years. I'm a fixer. I have helped many kids in my classroom-don't know that I have changed them forever, but teaching is helping to effect change. As for difficult child-I am not so sure. There are glimmers of hope at time. And then I realize they glimmer because she is about to pull a doozy or is doing something to get her way.
I too think addiction is an illness. Someday they will find a medical cure. We have had many discussions about the effects of genetics.They are powerful. Add in the lack of brain development as they are in active addiction and add in the brain damage from use and all you have is maladaptive behaviors.
I don't accept the behaviors or use as ok, but I truelly accept that difficult child will be who she is.( Don't get me wrong it is sad and I will grump about it and have eternal hope) That means accepting the mental illnesses and her lack of willingness to work on her behaviors. When she is willing I will be there to support her.
I think Insane is correct-the pain just doesn't go away. It can become less. I have noticed that I am getting better at not panicing when she does not come home at night. I use to get frantic. I have also stopped thinking about her waisted potential. I just don't think there is potential when someone has untreated mental illness or active addiction.
My difficult child has not always been a difficult child. She did share some of our values. She has always had a lazy streak and a tendency to put things off until the last moment. She doesn't see the harm in hanging around people who are classless (she thinks we are judgemental there). Our community is very mixed economically, religiously and ethnically (Unlike the greater part of this city). We wanted our kids to have a greater exposure to culture and develop tolerance. It has backfired-she seems drawn to the negative affects of this. She always had friends who had troubled families, financial problems, major disfunction. When she was young I had to do the transporting and the kids mostly came to my home because her friends homes were just not places to hang out for the most part. We took her to dance, music and volleyball on the other side of the city hoping that she would make friends with someone she had more in common with-never really happened.Most of her friends families did not have money to even send their kids to the local pool. But, she was a good kid and did well in school until Junior high. It all changed horribly. So you see, could not fix anything.
It makes me feel I have no control and that for me is the real issue. Getting control back of myself is my goal. Thanks Nancy for sharing-I completely understand.
I too think addiction is an illness. Someday they will find a medical cure. We have had many discussions about the effects of genetics.They are powerful. Add in the lack of brain development as they are in active addiction and add in the brain damage from use and all you have is maladaptive behaviors.
I don't accept the behaviors or use as ok, but I truelly accept that difficult child will be who she is.( Don't get me wrong it is sad and I will grump about it and have eternal hope) That means accepting the mental illnesses and her lack of willingness to work on her behaviors. When she is willing I will be there to support her.
I think Insane is correct-the pain just doesn't go away. It can become less. I have noticed that I am getting better at not panicing when she does not come home at night. I use to get frantic. I have also stopped thinking about her waisted potential. I just don't think there is potential when someone has untreated mental illness or active addiction.
My difficult child has not always been a difficult child. She did share some of our values. She has always had a lazy streak and a tendency to put things off until the last moment. She doesn't see the harm in hanging around people who are classless (she thinks we are judgemental there). Our community is very mixed economically, religiously and ethnically (Unlike the greater part of this city). We wanted our kids to have a greater exposure to culture and develop tolerance. It has backfired-she seems drawn to the negative affects of this. She always had friends who had troubled families, financial problems, major disfunction. When she was young I had to do the transporting and the kids mostly came to my home because her friends homes were just not places to hang out for the most part. We took her to dance, music and volleyball on the other side of the city hoping that she would make friends with someone she had more in common with-never really happened.Most of her friends families did not have money to even send their kids to the local pool. But, she was a good kid and did well in school until Junior high. It all changed horribly. So you see, could not fix anything.
It makes me feel I have no control and that for me is the real issue. Getting control back of myself is my goal. Thanks Nancy for sharing-I completely understand.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Your kids are 20/21 years old. Think if perhaps they werent meant for college and you were living in Denver. Your son or daughter takes off at age 18 for the West Coast to find herself.
Would you have any control over what your adult child was doing on her own? Would you even know what she was doing? In this day and age, yeah most likely have some idea because of Facebook and twitter and whatever other type of social media is out there. Back in my day, kids did that and parents were lucky to get a phone call home once a month. Tons of kids leave home at 18. Look at how many kids enter the military at 18? Some even at 17. But if your kid left home for parts unknown, you simply cannot control anything.
Would you have any control over what your adult child was doing on her own? Would you even know what she was doing? In this day and age, yeah most likely have some idea because of Facebook and twitter and whatever other type of social media is out there. Back in my day, kids did that and parents were lucky to get a phone call home once a month. Tons of kids leave home at 18. Look at how many kids enter the military at 18? Some even at 17. But if your kid left home for parts unknown, you simply cannot control anything.
T
toughlovin
Guest
Nancy,
I don't know as I am still thinking this through too.... but I don't think it is accepting the drug addict for what they are doing because what they are doing, the way they are behaving is unacceptable. I think somehow it is loving the person they are inside, the person you once knew without the drugs. Gosh it is confusing isn't it?
Someone said to me once that a drug addicts primary relationship is with the drugs not with you... so it is really impossible to have any kind of real relationship with someone who is using because the relationship with you will not be their focus, their focus is the drugs. I think this is true.
And yet what RE said makes sense to me... but it means somehow separating the person from their actions. We can love and accept the person but we can hate and not accept what they are doing to themselves and others. I guess for me this means changing my thinkingi from my son IS an a*** to my son ACTS like an a***.
I also think drawing boundaries around behavior absolutely makes sense. So no you dont need to see or interact with your daughter while she is using drugs. However you can let her know you love her and will see her or interact with her when she is not using.
Does any of this make sense? I am thinking this through as I write. I don't have it figured out.
TL
I don't know as I am still thinking this through too.... but I don't think it is accepting the drug addict for what they are doing because what they are doing, the way they are behaving is unacceptable. I think somehow it is loving the person they are inside, the person you once knew without the drugs. Gosh it is confusing isn't it?
Someone said to me once that a drug addicts primary relationship is with the drugs not with you... so it is really impossible to have any kind of real relationship with someone who is using because the relationship with you will not be their focus, their focus is the drugs. I think this is true.
And yet what RE said makes sense to me... but it means somehow separating the person from their actions. We can love and accept the person but we can hate and not accept what they are doing to themselves and others. I guess for me this means changing my thinkingi from my son IS an a*** to my son ACTS like an a***.
I also think drawing boundaries around behavior absolutely makes sense. So no you dont need to see or interact with your daughter while she is using drugs. However you can let her know you love her and will see her or interact with her when she is not using.
Does any of this make sense? I am thinking this through as I write. I don't have it figured out.
TL
Kathy,
Thank you for saying that, it makes me feel really good and makes me so happy for you and your daughter. You are so welcome. I'm very glad you have found a counselor, that helped me so much. I send you love and warm wishes for your journey............
Today I was waiting to get a chiropractic adjustment and while there I started to read a pamphlet that was given to us at my codependency group. It's called 'Letting go of the need to control' by Hazelden Publications. It is directed at codependents. There was a part in it which made me think of
myself and the road many of us travel on the way to detachment and acceptance. Control is a huge issue for codependents, perhaps the biggest deterrent to finding peace, I've learned that letting go of the need to control is an "inside job," and as CrazyinVa said, "it's downright painful."
Here is an excerpt from that pamphlet under the heading of, "Who is responsible"
"Deciding who is right and who is wrong is irrelevant. Things happen; people are who they are. Needing to control makes it hard for us to see life is a process of learning and working things out. It doesn't occur to us not to feel responsible for deciding what should happen, and it doesn't occur to us that letting go allows others to be responsible.
If we need to find someone to blame when things go wrong, and if we take credit when things go right, where does that leave everyone else? By concentrating on perfection, we radiate dissatisfaction. We think no one knows, but people sense the disgust, impatience, disappointment and superiority we feel. They feel guilty, hurt, inadequate and angry.
As long as we believe we are powerless to shape our own lives, we will need to control the lives of those around us. As long as we believe others cause our unhappiness, we will continue to try to change THEM in order to feel better. Of course, we really can't change anyone else. We waste energy trying to do so. We must learn to direct our attention to internal feelings, values, and goals instead of focusing on external persons and events."
What struck me in that blurb was the line about radiating dissatisfaction and what that feels like to the other, in this case, our kids. For me, once I got a handle on that for myself, I stopped radiating dissatisfaction and just like Kathy said, their relationship changed. Our kids want our approval so much and when they mess up and we withhold it and offer up only our disappointment in them, we sever that connection and everyone is angry. In accepting them with all their flaws and choices, we open the door for them to walk through, as TL so beautifully said, "I always felt absolute unconditional love from my mother, total acceptance for me NO MATTER WHAT." My belief is when we feel that love, we have the possibility of a healing. I believe in the power of unconditional love. It's free of judgment, in fact, it is the absolute space of non judgement.
This is my take on it, I'm not professing to be right, I can only share with you my experience and what I believe. This has been no easy task for me, I've had to take a good hard look at myself, and look at that need to control, how that is based in fear. That fear prompted me to act and react in certain ways that impacted my difficult child. Did I cause her to be who she is? No. But I have my part in the script and since that is the only part I actually do have control over, I went about finding out how to do that. It's interesting that the first step in any 12 step program is "I am powerless." It is not only true for the addict, it is absolutely true for the codependent as well. It is a strange concept to give up control since so much of what we do everyday appears to be about holding on to control. It seems like a paradox and I wanted to learn about how to unravel that paradox so that I could love my child and live my life in peace.
This is a great opportunity to put into words all the feelings I've had for the last couple of months. And, as I get clearer that I am on the right track now, I am demonstrating that with the recent events surrounding my difficult child, which I'll update you on another post, I don't want to hijack this one.
[FONT=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif][/FONT]I don't know why I just thought of this, but years ago, I was affiliated with a healing center out here which was working with children who had catastrophic illnesses where death was imminent. Some of these kids were really young, 5, 6 years old. There were groups where the parents, who were absolutely devastated, as you can imagine, met with counselors and the kids and addressed death head on. What blew me right out of the water, and still blows me away, is that the kids, young kids and teens, all the kids, wanted nothing more then for their parents to be okay about their passing. With help, the children had accepted their illness and impending death and wanted more then anything, for their parents to accept it too. The facilitators were all trained to get to the heart of the matter which was unconditional love and forgiveness. These groups opened the door for people to accept. Acceptance was the key. It still brings tears to my eyes just remembering it. In the four stages of dealing with death, acceptance is the goal and the final step. Once we get there, we're free and the rest doesn't matter.
Thank you for saying that, it makes me feel really good and makes me so happy for you and your daughter. You are so welcome. I'm very glad you have found a counselor, that helped me so much. I send you love and warm wishes for your journey............
Today I was waiting to get a chiropractic adjustment and while there I started to read a pamphlet that was given to us at my codependency group. It's called 'Letting go of the need to control' by Hazelden Publications. It is directed at codependents. There was a part in it which made me think of
myself and the road many of us travel on the way to detachment and acceptance. Control is a huge issue for codependents, perhaps the biggest deterrent to finding peace, I've learned that letting go of the need to control is an "inside job," and as CrazyinVa said, "it's downright painful."
Here is an excerpt from that pamphlet under the heading of, "Who is responsible"
"Deciding who is right and who is wrong is irrelevant. Things happen; people are who they are. Needing to control makes it hard for us to see life is a process of learning and working things out. It doesn't occur to us not to feel responsible for deciding what should happen, and it doesn't occur to us that letting go allows others to be responsible.
If we need to find someone to blame when things go wrong, and if we take credit when things go right, where does that leave everyone else? By concentrating on perfection, we radiate dissatisfaction. We think no one knows, but people sense the disgust, impatience, disappointment and superiority we feel. They feel guilty, hurt, inadequate and angry.
As long as we believe we are powerless to shape our own lives, we will need to control the lives of those around us. As long as we believe others cause our unhappiness, we will continue to try to change THEM in order to feel better. Of course, we really can't change anyone else. We waste energy trying to do so. We must learn to direct our attention to internal feelings, values, and goals instead of focusing on external persons and events."
What struck me in that blurb was the line about radiating dissatisfaction and what that feels like to the other, in this case, our kids. For me, once I got a handle on that for myself, I stopped radiating dissatisfaction and just like Kathy said, their relationship changed. Our kids want our approval so much and when they mess up and we withhold it and offer up only our disappointment in them, we sever that connection and everyone is angry. In accepting them with all their flaws and choices, we open the door for them to walk through, as TL so beautifully said, "I always felt absolute unconditional love from my mother, total acceptance for me NO MATTER WHAT." My belief is when we feel that love, we have the possibility of a healing. I believe in the power of unconditional love. It's free of judgment, in fact, it is the absolute space of non judgement.
This is my take on it, I'm not professing to be right, I can only share with you my experience and what I believe. This has been no easy task for me, I've had to take a good hard look at myself, and look at that need to control, how that is based in fear. That fear prompted me to act and react in certain ways that impacted my difficult child. Did I cause her to be who she is? No. But I have my part in the script and since that is the only part I actually do have control over, I went about finding out how to do that. It's interesting that the first step in any 12 step program is "I am powerless." It is not only true for the addict, it is absolutely true for the codependent as well. It is a strange concept to give up control since so much of what we do everyday appears to be about holding on to control. It seems like a paradox and I wanted to learn about how to unravel that paradox so that I could love my child and live my life in peace.
This is a great opportunity to put into words all the feelings I've had for the last couple of months. And, as I get clearer that I am on the right track now, I am demonstrating that with the recent events surrounding my difficult child, which I'll update you on another post, I don't want to hijack this one.
[FONT=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif][/FONT]I don't know why I just thought of this, but years ago, I was affiliated with a healing center out here which was working with children who had catastrophic illnesses where death was imminent. Some of these kids were really young, 5, 6 years old. There were groups where the parents, who were absolutely devastated, as you can imagine, met with counselors and the kids and addressed death head on. What blew me right out of the water, and still blows me away, is that the kids, young kids and teens, all the kids, wanted nothing more then for their parents to be okay about their passing. With help, the children had accepted their illness and impending death and wanted more then anything, for their parents to accept it too. The facilitators were all trained to get to the heart of the matter which was unconditional love and forgiveness. These groups opened the door for people to accept. Acceptance was the key. It still brings tears to my eyes just remembering it. In the four stages of dealing with death, acceptance is the goal and the final step. Once we get there, we're free and the rest doesn't matter.
S
Signorina
Guest
Janet I am not picking apart your post. But I read it and wasn't really happy with it but I had another one of those annoying "ding ding ding"
moments. And this has been such an evolutionary post topic... So I am going to share it all with you.
I get that many kids leave home at 18 & many parents are really ok with that and can flip the switch from child to adult without a pause. I am not one of em. Never will be. I wasn't raised that way and didn't raise my kids that way. That said, I was thrilled when difficult child left for college; I missed him yes-but was happy he was at this junction. I had no problem letting go! Had he moved out to the military or to be a bus boy; I may not have been thrilled, but I would have accepted it. Again Janet-not picking on you- this goes back to my op on this thread-but there seems to be some societal implication that not being able to accept a kid's HARMFUL lifestyle choice (in my case-drugs) is due to a desire to control him. And my difficult child loves to try to twist our non acceptance into some parental plot to control him forever.
And this is my ding ding ding-I ACCEPT that I have no control over his life. I accept that he is my son & I love him unconditionally. I do not accept his lifestyle & will not support it. And since I accept that I cannot control or change him or his choices, i choose not to condone his ILLEGAL, IMMORAL, DISHONEST lifestyle by looking the other way. HIS LIFESTYLE is completely unacceptable to me.
I am willing to support him should he decide to get help.
I think accept is often a synonym for approve which is why I struggle.
I accept I have no control over him. I love him and will forever. I do not approve of his choices. I mourn the bright future he has blown while at the same time, I hold out hope he will come to his senses.
moments. And this has been such an evolutionary post topic... So I am going to share it all with you.
I get that many kids leave home at 18 & many parents are really ok with that and can flip the switch from child to adult without a pause. I am not one of em. Never will be. I wasn't raised that way and didn't raise my kids that way. That said, I was thrilled when difficult child left for college; I missed him yes-but was happy he was at this junction. I had no problem letting go! Had he moved out to the military or to be a bus boy; I may not have been thrilled, but I would have accepted it. Again Janet-not picking on you- this goes back to my op on this thread-but there seems to be some societal implication that not being able to accept a kid's HARMFUL lifestyle choice (in my case-drugs) is due to a desire to control him. And my difficult child loves to try to twist our non acceptance into some parental plot to control him forever.
And this is my ding ding ding-I ACCEPT that I have no control over his life. I accept that he is my son & I love him unconditionally. I do not accept his lifestyle & will not support it. And since I accept that I cannot control or change him or his choices, i choose not to condone his ILLEGAL, IMMORAL, DISHONEST lifestyle by looking the other way. HIS LIFESTYLE is completely unacceptable to me.
I am willing to support him should he decide to get help.
I think accept is often a synonym for approve which is why I struggle.
I accept I have no control over him. I love him and will forever. I do not approve of his choices. I mourn the bright future he has blown while at the same time, I hold out hope he will come to his senses.
