Kind of new here but not really

[Looking2BFree]

Where to begin?! I posted here over two years ago about issues with my 18 year old daughter. After days of reading posts, I stumbled across mine. All I can say to any new members is: please listen to the wise parents who offer advice. I didn’t and here I am again.

I’ll keep this as brief as possible. We have had ongoing issues with daughter for years. We removed her from our home at 18 when I posted on this forum. She was with an abusive, drug using boyfriend. We suspected drug use which we’ve now confirmed. Coke was her drug of choice. Fast forward to sept of last year. Daughter discovers she’s 4 months pregnant. Begs my hubby and I not to “make her live with boyfriend”. We set firm boundaries. She worked full time and bought everything on her own for the baby, including paint on the wall. She was definitely clean from drugs during her pregnancy. She was like a completely different person and I actually enjoyed her company. Three weeks before giving birth, she suspected the boyfriend was still using (his drugs of choice are adderall and coke). She confronts him and his clueless parents. He refuses to take a drug test and tells her to eff off. She ends the relationship, gives birth and is really a great mom. I was firm with boundaries and kept my hands off raising the grandchild. Ex boyfriend and his family continue to try to abuse and threaten my daughter. We go to court. Solid parenting plan in place including no contact outside of a court email program. That was in the middle of June. I go back to work, feeling peace that she’s finally on a healthier path.

Two weeks ago, I discovered she is back with the boyfriend and has been since...June. About one week after court. I didn’t learn this by her telling me. I had a suspicion and asked. She went to diabolical lengths to hide this from us. And has stated she lied “not to be sneaky” but because of my reaction. Huh? My fault, I guess. Her last text really was more truthful “I didn’t tell you because I didn’t want to get kicked out before I knew if it would work or not”. Boom.

She begged me to stay in the GC life. I have chosen to close that door and the door to my daughter. Why? Because I know her well enough to know that the baby will forever be used as a pawn and I can’t keep putting myself, my husband, or 10 year old daughter through this insanity. She claims the boyfriend is clean. Ya. Ok. He refused to take a drug test in court even though she submitted one. She now lives with him and his enabling family. I will be damned if I beg to see a baby that lived in my home for 6 months.

We cannot figure out what drew her back. She had once a week counseling since October of last year. She’s pleasant and almost enjoyable to be around when she was away from the boyfriend and drugs.

I’m beyond the guilt. I KNOW we’ve done everything to support her. I KNOW she knows right from wrong. I’m ok shutting her out. It’s the baby. The baby is innocent.

What possesses someone to treat their family like this? Because I’ve gone no contact, I’m the bad guy. I’m just done.

There’s so much more to this ridiculous story that I have left out but I will say my decision is warranted and I wish I listened to the sage advice on this forum and never let her back in my home, or my life. I let my guard down.

My issue is around the baby. I feel like keeping him in our world opens up more hurt to us, especially my younger daughter who has already witnessed too much. But then I feel guilt and sadness because he could grow to feel unloved or not wanted by us and that is the furthest thing from the truth.

Any one else in this situation? I don’t want or need a relationship with my Difficult Child.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Triedntrue]

My situation is similar but is with my sons ex. I have decided that i want to see my grandson more than i want to stay away from her. Even though that means i have to capitulate to alot of conditions which make it difficult. I had already established a relationship ship with him though. It is hard when none of it is there fault.

 

[New Leaf]

Hi Looking, welcome again but so sorry for your need to be back here. I could have written your post with some edits. My daughter stayed with her abusive boyfriend and had three children with him. We went through years of trying to help, ended up taking care of the grands when they were removed from their parents. They went through counseling and the family was reunited, only to have the cycle start all over again. They swore up and down that they weren’t doing drugs....”Just pot” but I later learned they also mixed it with coke. Then it was crack. Ugh.
This is a very short version. Of hell. Yup, it was hell.
My son, now 17, spent most of his young life watching the chaos, living through the drama. We were desperate to protect our grands, looking back, it was all so totally unfair to my son.
I have helped my daughter take TRO’s out on her boyfriend, only to have her sneak him into my home, while we were working. Or, she would go back to him. Over and again.
This caused incredible stress for our family.
My daughter is not phased by this.
My husband suffered illness and fought it for a few years, then passed during this time. Before he passed, I put my foot down and said no more. It was incredibly difficult.
She ended up homeless and on meth (which she denies) and is now in jail. Her boyfriend is on the streets. The three grands are with their paternal grandparents and we see them as often as possible, they have spent summers with us.
Sigh.
With that written, I believe through my experience and regrets that our primary responsibility is to our minor children, to provide a home that is their sanctuary. Stability.
I understand your being done, and deciding to go no contact. It must be incredibly painful to have supported your daughter through her pregnancy by having her home, had your grandchild in your life from infancy, gone through court proceedings, then have her go back to the abusive boyfriend.
You see the writing on the wall.
I hope that it is not more of the same, for your daughter and her child’s sake, for yours too. But..... I have been through many rounds of this. Abusive patterns are difficult to break. Things would go well for a time and then boom, something would trigger, it was like a recurring nightmare. We could not convince my daughter that she and her children deserved better.
That being said........

There’s so much more to this ridiculous story that I have left out but I will say my decision is warranted and I wish I listened to the sage advice on this forum and never let her back in my home, or my life. I let my guard down.

You are well within your right to set boundaries. It is helpful to read the article on detachment at the top of the PE forum page to help guide you in your decisions. Going no contact for a time, helps us to get our bearings. I do believe there is a way to have limited contact. Detachment doesn’t mean we have to cut our adult children from our lives. We learn better ways to react and respond to them.

My issue is around the baby. I feel like keeping him in our world opens up more hurt to us, especially my younger daughter who has already witnessed too much. But then I feel guilt and sadness because he could grow to feel unloved or not wanted by us and that is the furthest thing from the truth.

I have wrestled with this for most of my grands lives. We had a sort of revolving door for years, my daughter would come and go with the grands, when she left it was usually under difficult circumstances, we wouldn’t hear from them for awhile. It was a roller coaster.
As I wrote before, your first duty, is to your younger daughter. If she has witnessed too much, you might want to have her go to counseling. I took my son for the same reason. I went as well.
Try not to write the end of the story. It is obvious you love your grandson. I understand how you feel, there are so many what if’s. When I first came to CD, one of the many bits of wisdom I received was to slow way down. Take one day, one moment at a time. You don’t have to decide everything right this minute.
Read as much as you can about domestic violence, I am sure you have already. It helps to know if there are shelters nearby, in case your daughter decides to leave again. It was hard to tell my daughter that she couldn’t come home, even after everything we had gone through. I had promised my son that that would not happen again. I knew that she would not get the help she needed, and our lives would get caught up in the crazy. That was unacceptable.
Knowing what your boundaries are and sticking to them is important.
Take very good care of yourself, be kind and gentle to yourself. There are many mixed emotions that come in to play when dealing with this.

I don’t want or need a relationship with my Difficult Child.

I felt the same way many times. My daughter can be manipulative and abusive. She tries to blame me for her choices. She is hard to be around.
I ended up giving her and her sister back to God. I pray for them daily to find their true potential. They were both homeless before the younger ended up in jail. I see my eldest sporadically, but I don’t go looking for her.
The mother of my three grands, went MIA for a year, before she ended up in jail. She blamed me, for not looking for her.
Sigh.
So, yes, I do understand how you are feeling. I have decided to tread lightly with my two, if they genuinely make an effort to change, to stop using, I will reassess. I have to guard my heart.
It is hard when our adult children choose the rough roads they do. We go through all of the stages of grieving. It is doubly hard when there are grand babies involved. Take time to honor your feelings, try not to write the end of the story, but definitely work on your boundaries and switch focus to your well being, as well as your daughter and husband.
You have been blindsided by this, your daughter chose to sneak around, that is unfair and unacceptable after all of the support you have given her. That being stated, it is very typical of abusive relationships to behave this way. Abusive men will do what it takes to isolate their victims from family and friends.
My daughter was drawn to her boyfriend like a moth to a flame. It never ceased to amaze me what she endured and put her children through. It was a toxic mess.
I hope this will not be the same for your daughter. Please prepare yourself, by doing as much as you can to educate yourself and be ready for whatever come what may.
I am so sorry. This is very, very hard. Please know you are not alone and keep posting. It truly helps to have support and understanding.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[Looking2BFree]

Triedntrue - thank you for your reply. I appreciate your stance and understand it as this is where my battle lies. I think for me, at least for right now, I am not strong or wise enough yet to be able to detach from the daughter's problems/issues and still have a relationship with the grandchild. I know for me it would be very hard and very painful to know that the grandchild is suffering to some degree where he is and I would have to hand him back over with a smile on my face. I am not there yet. My daughter and grandchild are now living with the boyfriend and paternal grandparents. I find peace knowing that the grandmother will always do her best to make sure the grandchild is safe. Unfortunately, the paternal grandparents are in classic enabler mode and will contribute to their son and my daughter starting back up in the party lifestyle and then she'll wonder why things are so bad. This, too, has been a pattern. My hubby and I are also not prepared emotionally or financially to go to court to protect our grandparent rights. All I know for sure is that we will be here if our grandchild ever needs us. I also know that when it comes to my daughter, she likes to have an upper hand. Something to use against me so I continue to enable. Previously it was her schooling, then it was her mental health (if you do this to me, I will get "sicker"), and now of course it is an innocent grandbaby. My choice to go no contact wasn't so much that she's back with the boyfriend - it was her decision to go to great lengths to lie to us about it while we continued to support her and her son (living in our home - she paid/pays for the child on her own) financially and emotionally. It was DAILY we would tell her how proud we are of her, how much strength she has and she'd take those compliments and look us in the eye and smile knowing full well that she was hiding a HUGE secret from us. I question now when she would tell us her beautiful dreams of building a family with her boyfriend? She just cannot seem to understand that it was her outright lies that have pushed me to the end of the cliff. She has justified in her own mind that her choices were acceptable and that is what I can no longer ignore. This has been her pattern for years and I've learned (the hard way) that if there is no trust, there is no relationship. We honestly believed up until 2 or 3 weeks ago that she turned over a new leaf, that it was ok for us to trust her. How wrong we were and I cannot keep going backwards. You will be in my thoughts TriednTrue - I hope things go more smoothly for you than they have for us.

Leafy - oh Leafy. You were my lifeline two years ago and it appears you will be my lifeline now. First off, I am genuinely sorry for the loss of your husband. How difficult to navigate a tremendous loss while continuing to navigate the "dance" with your daughters. And you continue to help others. You are an amazing soul.

I suppose I am going through stages of grief. Yesterday I felt more anger when I wrote that post. I, of course, would love to have a healthy relationship with my Difficult Child and I honestly believed that was where we were headed, only to be blindsided and have my heart literally shattered. I have cried for years and I cried for about a week after first discovering this. I think because I have been down this road so many times, I tend to bounce back faster. I believe there will come a day where I am able to have a superficial relationship with her, have boundaries, and continue to live a happy life even though hers may be falling apart. But for now, I am not there.

My first priority is my youngest daughter. My guilt is geared more towards her now. I realize that I have spent so much of my time and energy trying to save my Difficult Child, my youngest girl was often tossed to the side. We have started her in counseling - her first visit was yesterday and it was eye opening not only for me but my husband too. He told the therapist, that we've been lucky that we've had such an easy daughter during these times with the Difficult Child. Hearing that made me sad because in my beautiful little girl's mind she HAS TO be easy so she doesn't upset us and cause more stress. NOPE. She deserves to have a childhood. While we've done our best to shelter or shield her from the Difficult Child's violent & abusive behavior, she has witnessed many times the Difficult Child being in and out of our house. This last time has most definitely affected her to a higher degree because she has a strong attachment to her nephew. I will NOT allow this to happen again. This easy child deserves a chance to live in peace so she can navigate her own world and have her mom and dad present, fully present, standing by her side when she needs us to.

I have been in counseling for years and I continue to go. I am beyond grateful that I have found a wonderful woman who knows the whole story with the Difficult Child. She has provided literature to me about abusive relationships and I have spent the last two years educating myself on domestic violence. We took steps over a year ago to protect ourselves and our Difficult Child. The boyfriend has not been allowed in our home or on our property and we stuck to that even when she was pregnant. We wanted the Difficult Child to have a safe place to come to. When learning of her pregnancy, I had a nervous breakdown, mainly because I felt then that this boyfriend would never be out of our lives. I was so proud of my Difficult Child when she put her foot down and walked away. And it was months that she was free - that is where I cannot understand how she went back. The boyfriend has encouraged her to write us off on more than one occasion and I suspect that is exactly what is happening now as well. I understand the isolation aspect but the sad fact is so does my Difficult Child. She wants her "family" together. Sigh. The other difficult part to this is the paternal grandparents. My hubby and I are leaps and bounds ahead of them when it comes to NOT enabling. They are still at the stage of getting mad when their son screws up and then getting over it in a short period of time. Or they outright ignore the signs of drug use...in their home. The paternal grandmother seems to get it but the grandfather is still stuck in the illusion that if I admit my son is a mess, it's a reflection of my parenting. We suspect he's abusive himself - maybe not physically but most definitely on an emotional level. At any rate, I believe there will come a time where these grandparents are faced with choosing their son over their grandchild. And I'm not sure which way they would go. I know they were always using drugs in their home. If that continues and CPS gets involved, the grandchild will need to be removed. The other thing my hubby and I are struggling with is the fact that these grandparents were complicit in hiding this relationship from us. It was very toxic and emotionally draining when this baby was born and words were exchanged. My Difficult Child and that family seem to have moved on from it but we cannot. We (me) are viewed us unforgiving and unwilling to move forward. This is all so crazy to us but normal to them.

I'm told not to "catastrophize" - hard to do when I know how sideways this can go. I know the extent of the boyfriend's drug use and I know my Difficult Child joined him in order to cope. She "gave up" - her words not mine. We looked at this baby as a saving grace and he was for a short time. I pray everyday she continues to make good choices for the baby's sake. All I know for sure, is me rescuing has never worked and it won't work now. I cannot and will not have my home as a revolving door which it has been and will continue to be. Leafy, the story of your daughter with the grands really hits home for me. I want to believe "it will be different this time" but my head will not allow that anymore. Because, it won't be different this time. Difficult Child has other family she hasn't used so I know she has resources to help her if the time comes. If she reaches out to me, I will encourage her to reach out to those resources. That's as far as I can go with the help.

Because of the dynamic between us and the paternal grandparents - if the child is taken from his parents - I don't think they would even allow us to be apart of his life. I'm not sure that I have much fight left in me. I could write for days about the paternal grandparents and how dysfunctional they are but there's no point. In their minds, their son is a good man, a good dad yet he's treated like he's still a child and they financially support him. We've been polar opposite with Difficult Child where we expected her to be responsible for her choice to have a child.

Leafy - did you go through this with the paternal grandparents? Or were they on the same page as you? These people are most definitely NOT on the same page as us. They ignore the problems and proceed as normal. The mother actually said to me one time "I'd like to be able to have a drink with my son sometimes" almost upset that he can not drink like an average person and she's missing out because of it. ENABLER to the highest degree.

Ugh. I'm sorry these posts are so long. I don't expect anyone to read them - I'm writing more to get my thoughts out. A diary I suppose.

 

[New Leaf]

Looking, there are so many similarities with our stories.

Leafy - did you go through this with the paternal grandparents? Or were they on the same page as you? These people are most definitely NOT on the same page as us. They ignore the problems and proceed as normal.

The paternal grandparents may be related to your grandsons, if not by blood, by actions.
Not on the same page at all. I used to get calls from daughters boyfriend’s aunty, telling me how abusive her brother in law (grandfather) was to his wife, her sister. My daughter would go back and forth because they allowed pot smoking and partying. We were more strict and expected the parents to work and care for their children.
Proceed as normal. Yup that was them. Domestic violence is generational.
How can I allow my grands to live with them? But, what else can I do? I am not able, or even willing to take on that responsibility. My grands actually prefer to live with them, and for the most part, it seems that things have calmed a bit with their grandparents age. I have encouraged them to seek counseling for my grandchildren, who are a bit wild, due to their upbringing and chaotic, dramatic experiences with their parents. This falls on deaf ears. I try to impress upon the kids that they do not have to follow in their parents footsteps, that they should do well in school and stay away from drugs. I hope and pray for them, that they make good choices.
I stand by my promise to my son, that I will not be rescue grandma, that I will provide a safe and stable home for him. Lord knows he has been through enough, and like your daughter, has used the bad experiences to lift himself to seek better. He has always been an old soul, responsible and thoughtful.
My daughter has no other family here that would take her in. Before she was homeless, I found out that a couple, former drug users, had taken her in to try to help her. She ended up sneaking out in the night to party.
I urged her before that, to seek a dv shelter, that she would get help there for herself and her children. I was cognizant of the fact that all those years of “rescuing” her, to our own detriment, did not help her. It was just too easy for her to remain the same. She cared not what it did to her own family, or her children for that matter. Looking back, I am astounded by the things we put up with and remorseful that my son witnessed what he did. It was, and is completely unacceptable. My son has awful memories of his nephews, invading his privacy, fighting, breaking his toys, completely disrespecting him. It was utter chaos. Not fair to him. He loves them, but is tired of the drama. My grands grew up watching their parents fight over the most trivial things. It is not their fault, but they are the same. Sibling rivalry can’t even begin to describe it. When they are here, it takes a while for them to calm down and be peaceful. There is this frenzied energy about them, reminiscent of their parents. I suspect that same energy flows through their living conditions with their grandparents. Ugh.
We are the strange ones, wanting peace and quiet, respect for one another and manners.

Ugh. I'm sorry these posts are so long. I don't expect anyone to read them - I'm writing more to get my thoughts out. A diary I suppose.

I am the same. Write it out. I get it. I have written reams here. (Sorry guys) but it helps to get the toxic stuff out. Whether or not people read all of it, we all get it, how absolutely absurd and hard it is to be on this journey. I wish my daughters would wake up and find their true potential. It has been a rough ride for all of us. My other children have pulled way back. I take my cue from them, and my parents, who would not have gone to the extremes I did.
I am learning, folks here have been so supportive. I am grateful for the help, and for those who have walked a mile in my shoes and understand the pain of it. It is amazing that our stories are so similar.
You matter, your husband and young daughter matter. That is where your focus needs to be.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[Elsi]

Looking, I am too tired and sad today to have any wisdom to share, but I wanted you to know that I read every word here and understand completely where you are coming from. It's a hard line we're walking now, with no easy answers.

 

[Copabanana]

Have no grandchildren but wanted them as much as I wanted to be a mother.

I think what you describe is a level of hell. There is no other way for me to understand. I am sorry.

This is a Sophie's choice. Either way your heart is cut in half.

Mothers have chosen the same and different and then both. This shows you that there is no right course except the less bad one for you.

The world is full of young mothers who change. And some who do not.

Personally, I believe you have a great deal of strength and courage which I have started to describe as the other side of mother love.

I think it takes a valiant and loving mother to not follow her child into hell.

Mother courage. That is you.

 

[Looking2BFree]

Elsi—thank you for reaching out. I have read your posts and my mom heart goes out to you. I don’t have any wisdom myself. I’m treading water and getting tired. Living like this is cruel. This is hell on earth.

Copa—I have followed your posts for over two years. Reading your words brought tears to my eyes for the first time in two weeks! I feel the furthest thing from strong. I feel weak for not being able to see a grand baby I adore because of the overwhelming anxiety I feel being around his mother. I feel selfish for choosing to get off the sinking ship while my daughter stays on it without a life jacket. I’ve tried to rationalize her decisions and question whether my heart has hardened and I am really the problem in all of this. I feal fear that my younger daughter will choose the same path and leave my life too. I feel anger, mostly at myself. Because if I had raised her better, she wouldn’t make these choices and devastate her family.

We were not pleased about this pregnancy but we stood by her and embraced and loved that perfect, innocent baby and although I was the one who voiced closing the door (for now anyway) she actually made that decision for us.

I find myself bitter. I look at other mother/daughter relationships and ask constantly WHY I can’t have that. I genuinely want to be happy for others but truthfully I am not. That makes me feel like a terrible person. I now am terrified for people to ask me how my daughter and grandbaby are. What do I say other than “good”.

Copa, thank you for your words...it forced me to really examine how I’m feeling. Perhaps it is strength, I never viewed it that way. I viewed myself as a really cold hearted woman who isn’t all that great at being a mom.

Hugs to everyone in this forum. This is a special kind of hell.

 

[Elsi]

I feel selfish for choosing to get off the sinking ship while my daughter stays on it without a life jacket.

I could have written this. I too feel selfish for choosing my own peace and sanity over their physical safety - for denying them room here when I have the space and the money. But I just. Can’t. Do it. Anymore. And I doesn’t help them get to where they need to be. If we go down with them, we won’t be able to help when our help might actually do some good.

 

[Elsi]

find myself bitter. I look at other mother/daughter relationships and ask constantly WHY I can’t have that. I genuinely want to be happy for others but truthfully I am not. That makes me feel like a terrible person. I now am terrified for people to ask me how my daughter and grandbaby are. What do I say other than “good”.

It’s an awful feeling isn’t it? When my kids are struggling it always seems like everyone else around me is like ‘Percival just got accepted to Harvard on full scholarship, and Beatrice is loving her second year in the peace corps... so how are your kids, anyway?’

 

[Looking2BFree]

Absolutely true Elsi. I know my husband deserves a wife and my younger daughter deserves a mom. That might be the only thing that keeps me going at this point. I’ve been through the stages where I felt like life just wasn’t worth living if my daughter was suffering. This time around I feel a little differently simply because she made the choice to board the sinking ship...as it was sinking.

 

[Looking2BFree]

Elsi—I am on my phone and haven’t figured out how to quote yet. Your last post about Beatrice made me giggle so thank you for that! It’s not a laughing matter but I try to find humor when I can.

The hardest part for me is the look on people’s faces where I know they are questioning what I did as her mother to make her live like this. I loathe that. Actually, judgy mcjudgers, I’ve made myself sick and broke trying to save her from herself! But thanks for comin out! Ugh.

 

[Copabanana]

Looking. I find a kind of clarity and comfort by thinking of two famous children's books. Oh. The Places We Will Go. I think that is the title of the Dr. Seuss book.
And Runaway Bunny.

The first title in my mind's eye refers to the wonder of a child's desire to explore his world and move beyond the mother's safety. After all, this is what has to happen and does happen for a child to separate from the mother, and to individuate.

The second title refers to the reassurance provided by the mother to the baby bunny that his desire to run and to explore will not put him at risk of losing her. Because she will follow him to the ends of the earth. And further.

This is exactly where we are stuck.

Our grown up children are exploring the world. Oh. The places we will go.

Somehow 15 or 25 years ago we did not quite get that those places would entail drugs, abusive men, pregnancy, etc.

Yet. We are still emotionally geared up to follow. There is the emotional pull to follow them, no matter where they go. In the book I think I remember the bunny went up trees, etc, and eventually, I think to the moon. And there, mama followed. And this was immensely reassuring to the baby and to mothers and babies all over the world. That it was safe to explore. Because mother would be there.

She would follow. And when the baby went to places that were unsafe, we could go pick them up and bring them back.

And now we can't.

Now to stay with them we have to go to places that are unbearable, horrible, and degrading. To them. And to us, if we were to go there with them.

They still want us to go. To follow them. But we cannot. Because they have gone where people should not go. I will say that straight out. Because this is what I believe. I believe there is a right and wrong way to live.

We cannot go to bad places with them. At least, that is how I believe, now. I tried and tried and tried to follow. So that I could pick him up and turn him around. And I became degraded with my son. I lost myself.

I am living with heartbreak now. Because I know I cannot go anymore. And I believe my son knows that now, too.

At first he pushed against this. And tried to phrase it, as I no longer loved him.

No, I texted. And very briefly I explained, the love in question is your own, to act in a loving way towards yourself.

Somehow and for some reason, our kids act in relation to us, in an immature way. They want our love and help, but are unable or unwilling to take responsibility to make choices and to act in a way themselves that would help them, and demonstrate self-love. The result is bad acts, a series of them.

Over and over again, we try to step in, as if we can go and pick them up, turn them around, and set them straight. As if they are 3 years old.

It no longer works. I tried and I tried and I tried. I could not get it through my head it would no longer work. Until I ended up almost as bad as my son, because I kept following him into his degradation to try to turn him around.

You have grasped this very quickly. You will not be spared the heartbreak. But you will spare yourself and your family the degradation.

You have modeled for your daughter a very clear picture of dignity and responsibility. She can choose.

You have no control. I have no control. Heartbreak, yes. Buckets and buckets.

 

[Tired out]

I think your 1st obligation is to remove the mess from around your 10 year old and yourself.
if you decide you would like/need to see the grand you could speak with daughter and offer to babysit when she has to work. 1 or 2x/week if you are able. That way it is a win for you, the grand and your daughter. If she accepts that put in writing the agreement and expectations and have her read and sign.
I have no idea why she would go back to a druggie when she herself was clean.
Good luck.

 

[Looking2BFree]

Looking. I find a kind of clarity and comfort by thinking of two famous children's books. Oh. The Places We Will Go. I think that is the title of the Dr. Seuss book.
And Runaway Bunny.

The first title in my mind's eye refers to the wonder of a child's desire to explore his world and move beyond the mother's safety. After all, this is what has to happen and does happen for a child to separate from the mother, and to individuate.

The second title refers to the reassurance provided by the mother to the baby bunny that his desire to run and to explore will not put him at risk of losing her. Because she will follow him to the ends of the earth. And further.

This is exactly where we are stuck.

Our grown up children are exploring the world. Oh. The places we will go.

Somehow 15 or 25 years ago we did not quite get that those places would entail drugs, abusive men, pregnancy, etc.

Yet. We are still emotionally geared up to follow. There is the emotional pull to follow them, no matter where they go. In the book I think I remember the bunny went up trees, etc, and eventually, I think to the moon. And there, mama followed. And this was immensely reassuring to the baby and to mothers and babies all over the world. That it was safe to explore. Because mother would be there.

She would follow. And when the baby went to places that were unsafe, we could go pick them up and bring them back.

And now we can't.

Now to stay with them we have to go to places that are unbearable, horrible, and degrading. To them. And to us, if we were to go there with them.

They still want us to go. To follow them. But we cannot. Because they have gone where people should not go. I will say that straight out. Because this is what I believe. I believe there is a right and wrong way to live.

We cannot go to bad places with them. At least, that is how I believe, now. I tried and tried and tried to follow. So that I could pick him up and turn him around. And I became degraded with my son. I lost myself.

I am living with heartbreak now. Because I know I cannot go anymore. And I believe my son knows that now, too.

At first he pushed against this. And tried to phrase it, as I no longer loved him.

No, I texted. And very briefly I explained, the love in question is your own, to act in a loving way towards yourself.

Somehow and for some reason, our kids act in relation to us, in an immature way. They want our love and help, but are unable or unwilling to take responsibility to make choices and to act in a way themselves that would help them, and demonstrate self-love. The result is bad acts, a series of them.

Over and over again, we try to step in, as if we can go and pick them up, turn them around, and set them straight. As if they are 3 years old.

It no longer works. I tried and I tried and I tried. I could not get it through my head it would no longer work. Until I ended up almost as bad as my son, because I kept following him into his degradation to try to turn him around.

You have grasped this very quickly. You will not be spared the heartbreak. But you will spare yourself and your family the degradation.

You have modeled for your daughter a very clear picture of dignity and responsibility. She can choose.

You have no control. I have no control. Heartbreak, yes. Buckets and buckets.

This. So powerful. Thank you Copa.

 

[Tanya M]

Hi L2BF,

I'm getting caught up on some threads today. I think you have been given wonderful advice by the others and I agree that your daughter that is still at home needs to be your top priority.

It's never easy when a grandchild is involved. Perhaps you can keep the communication open with your daughter. Of course with strong firm boundaries in place. You might consider seeing if she would be willing to meet you in a public/neutral place so you could see your grandchild. There is nothing wrong with giving your grandchild gifts for birthday's and Christmas. I would caution against giving money or anything of real value.
There are ways to keep communication open without becoming a door mat.

We always have to guard our hearts as best we can. You can only do what you can live with. One thing to always remember, your grandchild is not your responsibility. I know it can go against the mommy in us to want to swoop in and make everything okay but in doing that we risk our own happiness and sanity.

((HUGS))

 

[OTE]

Can only offer sympathy. Just a thought...

Does your state have "grandparent rights"? You may be able to get a court to order visitation with your gbaby. No contact with daughter necessary for visitation. Just like ex spouses... Drop off/ pick up in neutral location. Obviously consult your own lawyer. But also if there was a guardian ad litem for the child in the last legal go-round ask that person. Judge might be happy to order visitation as a safeguard for the child when there's active drug use.