Lies

[Nomad]

Largely a vent.

Our daughter (age 30, diagnosis bipolar, medication compliant, adopted) has been lying to us. She has a young man living in her apartment for a month or two clandestinely.

He is adopted. About 29 yo. She has known him many years. Ironically, his father is a very wealthy attorney. Parents fought and they are now divorced. Mom was fed up and for the most part walked away. Father hung on for a short time and bought him a car and told him to find a job and largely cut him off. Consequently, the young man has been mostly living in his car. He works on and off. Sometimes part time. Half way decent about trying to work. Sort of. Again, works on and off. More than most of her friends and much of it pt. Last I heard he sometimes smokes pot. Don’t know how bad this habit is. My guess is it might if worsened. But I don’t know this for a fact.

He is “off.” ADD for sure. Do t know what else. Depression. Immature. Irresponsible. Possibly bipolar.

He has been at her place (with his cat) contributing nada. She won’t ask. We’ve been through this on some level before. He is not interested in her romantically. I suspect eventually he wants a girlfriend and that causes her to kick him out.

The HOA President has been notified (not by her or us) and says he can live there if he completes hoa form and completes and satisfies background check.

UNsuee if he will pass. She (daughter) claims he will do what it takes to get approval.

I can not tell you how freakin tired and fed up I am with her lies. She has told us she has not had ANYONE at her place for months. Never mind a live in person. And wth...asking us for money the other day when this freakin guy has been living there for free and she doesn’t have the bxlls to ask him to buy toilet paper? But she is ok with lying to us repeatedly and ask to buy extra cat food, kitty litter and toilet paper and us not knowing why?

Have I mentioned that I loathe liars?

I was in therapy for years over this crxp. I’m tired. I’m fed up. Bottom less pit. This crxp is a bottomless pit.

Husband and I have two trips planned. We have not told her. Like a freakin teenager she tends to go way off deep end when we travel. Will have out of control party. Makes no sense. We do t even live in same city. Acts like she is a teen.
So....we are in quiet mode.

She is uninvited for Thanksgiving.

And come January, shhhh I think her life might change significantly. I’ve have freakin had it. Bottomless pittttt. Noooooo end in sight. I’m angry sad and fed up.

 

[LauraH]

My son is notorious for lying as a means to an end. Whoppers, fibs, white lies, and everything in between. I was just starting to trust him again when he told about about a couple of situations in which he lied to others. I thought, if he'll lie to them he'll lie to me as well. And of course I was right. Outside of a serious criminal offense, lying is about the worst thing a person can do. It's ok to fib and tell a friend that you like the dress she's wearing even though you think it's ugly as sin. But I mean real lying. Lying to accomplish a goal or achieve an end. Lying to get or stay out of trouble. Sounds like we're of the same mind. Have you told your daughter how you view liars? My son absolutely knows how I feel but something in him won't let him acknowledge that lying is generally not a good thing. I hope your daughter comes around.

 

[Nomad]

She must recall me saying this OFTEN when they were kids and teens. I understand about little white lies. But can’t stand crazy constant lying. Hate it.

There is lots of crazy background to this. Impossible to fully explain the boatload of backstory and drama here. Hours of patching things up with her neighbors and the HOA President. Repeated lies. Repeated everything. Repeated mishaps. Crazy entanglements. Predicaments. Foolish mistakes. Lack of forethought. LYING. For decades.

Yet, I read posts here and I understand this is not as difficult as what others are going through.

Still...the repetitive nature. The lessons never learned. The lies. I’m fed up.

 

[LauraH]

I hear you and I don't blame you one bit. If we were neighbors I'd say let's meet for tea. Maybe you should do what I literally just did a few minutes ago and make your daughter get by on her own with no help from you. I don't know if that's possible or feasible, but search your heart and the answers will come, perhaps painfully.

 

[SeekingStrength]

Hey there Nomad,

I am sorry to hear about this. My Difficult Child lied so often, so many times. When husband and I finally realized how much/often he had lied to us, we felt like (blankety-blank) fools.

And yes, we fell for a cat food emergency story once. He asked for $50; we sent $35. We were on a mini-vacation and sent him part of our fun money.

Although the bad news is not over with Difficult Child's shenanigans, they no longer involve us. The freeing feeling of no longer providing $$ (for his lies) is awesome.

 

[LauraH]

SeekingStrength, I just told my own son via Facebook that I not only can't but won't help him, and probably not in the future after I learned a few things over the past couple of days and then hearing him tell me "FU." And you're right, it's so liberating!

 

[SeekingStrength]

SeekingStrength, I just told my own son via Facebook that I not only can't but won't help him, and probably not in the future after I learned a few things over the past couple of days and then hearing him tell me "FU." And you're right, it's so liberating!

It gets way easier, the more we learn. Seriously. At least for husband and me. It was a bit tough at first. Later, after we read more, remembered more, realized more ($$ were not helping our Difficult Child), and recognizing we were so much happier.....

 

[newstart]

I am so sorry that most of us are having to deal with the stupid lies. I am wore out. Each time my daughter talks I have to shift through the words, listen for tone only and try to pick out the truth. Sometimes I am too worn out and sometimes I get tired of trying to be a detective. It is mental work to put the pieces together because of the large amount of BS that gets tossed at us.

I once asked my daughter if she can say one sentence without lying. She told me off and walked off.
It is sad to hear the noise that comes out of her mouth, noise and nonsense that keeps her in a sick bondage. I really listen to tone only. I have a friend that has a wayward daughter when we get together it is so refreshing because we don't even tell each other white lies, we both need to hear the truth so bad.
Truth just feels good and right.

 

[Tanya M]

I know how you feel. I have a saying with my son "if his lips are moving, he's lying"
Operating under the "little boy who cried wolf" is what I do. I want to be able to believe my son but the proof is in the actions not the words. When the actions do not line up with his words, well the trust just isn't there.
I too do not tell my son when husband and I travel. I've been on the receiving end of his rants a few times when I did share with him. He would always try and get me to feel guilty, you know, the how dare you go off and have fun when my life is a mess and I'm struggling.
Take a step back and just breathe..........
Do not let your daughter steal your joy. Go on your trips and have some fun!

 

[Lil]

I hate lies. HATE them. Really, nothing I hate MORE and my son was raised knowing this. But he still lied all the time. He did the whole "letting people live with him" thing and got burned big time for it. He just finished paying his electric bill from a few years back.

You enjoy your trips Nomad! Do not let her ruin that for you!

 

[CrazyinVA]

I understand, one of my kids lies constantly - big things, little things, inconsequential thngs, doesn't matter. She lies .. and then if confronted, she has a semi-logical excuse ready so quickly it's scary. It's like gaslighting - I must be the crazy one because that's not what she said/did etc.

I recently got some good advice from my therapist on this subject. She said to think of the lies similar to the way I would to an alcoholic drinking. Accept that it's going to happen, and let it go. You know an alcoholic is going to drink, nothing you can do about it. You can't change it, can only change how you react. You know your child is going to lie, nothing you can do about it except change how you react... or ignore it.

I have experience with plenty of alcoholics (and alanon) -- so trying look at it that way helps me. I got tired of spending precious energy on catching her in lies. Oh I still falter times, but it helps.

 

[Nomad]

Daughter doesn’t use drugs and this is a plus. As well as medication compliant.

But she makes awful decisions repeatedly, denies reality, is hideous with money, sometimes doesn’t seem to try, she will throw us under the bus under the right circumstances in her mind ( this guy could definitely be one) and is prone to lying.

 

[recoveringenabler]

I've been around this kind of behavior for most of my life.....mental illness can be such a nightmare to live with. I'm sorry you continue to struggle with your daughter's behaviors, lies, poor decisions and attitude. Bi-polar is rampant in my family so I understand your feelings completely.

You've really done a stellar job of setting boundaries with your daughter. It sounds as if those boundaries require a little fine tuning now, which is how I deal with similar situations too.... It's the only way to stay sane. I feel for you Nomad......it's hard....and often it can feel like a life sentence.

 

[RN0441]

Nomad

Ugh I hate liars as well. If there was some way you could cut her off financially so that her life is well....her life.

She is a grown woman after all.

I would have to unweave myself from all of this crap with her. I think I'd move and not leave a forwarding address. When will it ever end?

 

[Nomad]

Thank you all.

RE...I may have used those exact words or close to it speaking with a close friend the other day “a life sentence.”

We adopted because I was super sick with my first baby (natural) and the doctor told me it would be unfair to my child to get pregnant again and risk getting super sick again or worse. (Unlikely)
Omg. Adopting ended up being far more stress than being super sick and if I didn’t die , at least I would of recuperated. Even if it took a year , etc. It would of been very rough but finite.
This bottomless pit / lifetime sentence “gets” to me at times. Seemingly permanent as in FOREVER non relenting stress. So NOT conducive for folks with health issues.

More boundaries a coming!!!!!

I am praying for wisdom and strength.

 

[recoveringenabler]

I understand how you feel. I've spent the last 7 years erecting boundaries around my daughter's behaviors and doing similar boundary setting around other members of my bio-family....I reached a point where I became unwilling to drag that "life sentence" any further down the line.....each step was kind of crummy since it would push me to re-evaluate the former situation and set stronger boundaries....yet every time I did that, I felt relief and liberation.. .. making different choices which honor me supported acceptance. These are our kids, but we don't have to put up with lying, manipulation or any negative behavior, whether they're bi-polar or abusing substances or whatever.... unless they're unable to determine right from wrong, they are accountable for their behavior. Go for it with your new boundaries, you'll feel so much better!!

 

[Tired out]

Our son is perpetual liar, embellisher. I can't figure out why. I am at the point I just ignore his embellishments, don't feed in or respond to anything I am sure is a lie. Sometimes I think he wants me to feel bad for him, working 2 jobs not getting any sleep..so sorry, not. My response, "well you need the money to dig yourself out. Be safe, love you." The more he works the less time he has to get into trouble.
Chronic liar.
Good luck to you.

 

[OTE]

Our son is perpetual liar, embellisher. I can't figure out why. I am at the point I just ignore his embellishments, don't feed in or respond to anything I am sure is a lie. Sometimes I think he wants me to feel bad for him, working 2 jobs not getting any sleep..so sorry, not. My response, "well you need the money to dig yourself out. Be safe, love you." The more he works the less time he has to get into trouble.
Chronic liar.
Good luck to you.

So sorry.

Yes mental illness is a life sentence for the person who has it and anyone around them. All of our behavior is based on motivation. At what point does our need for our children to love us become less than our need for peace and happiness? I'm at the point of needing my own peace more. So my boundaries are broader. My giving less. No, I wouldn't tell her I was leaving and would contact her as if I were home. I'd have cops and neighbors watch the place. i'd do a no trespass order with the cops so they could take her and anyone else out and charge them. She doesn't need to know you did it. But instead of her telling cops the party is ok....any way, just a thought for your peace of mind. I know the fear of leaving your place empty

 

[Copabanana]

Nomad. I am sorry. I am about to hijack your thread for just this one post. But first, I really understand how you must feel.

I will just say one thing: Your daughter has limitations. Does that forgive her deceptions? No. But you say she lacks the balls to confront this user guy, or ask him for rent money, or even to leave. How would she have the sense of self to deal with you directly? She is immature. Her skills are limited. And so much is at stake. She knows you hold the keys to the place. She knows she has already screwed up, with the condo. The last person she will level with is you. And she is too limited to face she is digging herself in deeper.

You set her up in this condo about the same time I bought the property for my son to live in. Your daughter has done way better than did my son. My son basically used the apartment as a drug den. And he reneged on rent. Preferring to use the money on more marijuana. Not even food.

Nomad. I am facing that I bought the property for me. That I set my son up for me. That I endured his going down, down, down, enabled by my so called generosity--in order to hide from the pain of a lifetime. In effect I tolerated enabling and sheltering his self-destructive behavior so that I would not have to face reality.

You have a choice to make. It really is about you. Where do your best interests lie? If she moves out, where will she go? Does she have the wherewithal to make it on her SSI? Can she arrange and maintain an apartment where you do not run interference for her?

Each of us has to accept that our children have real limitations in their functioning. I have chosen to cast my son out, because I was falling into the gutter with him. Your situation is far different. There is enough distance between you that you can, with effort, insulate yourself.

But is that really true? If she is defying your rules, a stand has to be taken. And with that, you are in the mix.

We are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. There are no right answers. Only less wrong ones. I am sorry Nomad.

At what point does our need for our children to love us become less than our need for peace and happiness?

My motivation is not for my son to love me. My motivation is to not have to face that he is not changing. Not getting better.

I feel that it is my fault. That there was something I should have, could have done to make him be alright.

I had a strong need for a redemption story. By adopting him, we were both to be redeemed. My past. And his. It worked for a long time.

He knows this about me. That I was seeking to redeem myself through him. He has accused me of such. He knew it intuitively about me. He faced it first.

I told him it was love. It was. But he is right.

Another mother posted on another thread that she had turned into her mother, living with an abusive alcoholic. The fate she had always ran from.

Except in her case her abuser was her son.

In my case I ran from the self-destruction of my father. And my son has turned into my father. I could not save my son. And I could not save my father. Before that.

I ask myself. Was I dedicated to this redemption fantasy in favor of my real life son? Was there more I could have done, if I had been tethered to real life?

For 10 years I have tried to turn him around. And only in the past 2 months have I stopped.

We called the cops and called and called. Letters of eviction. Threats of restraining orders. And finally, he stopped squatting on our property. There was a final time, when he was pushing his way in the door of my house. I began beating his legs with a pot, to push him back.

Only that, and something worse, got my attention. That there was no more redemption fantasy.

It was not a question of love. My love or his. The love is there.

It was this: the dream was over.

But what do I do now?

I guess it is one day at a time.

You see. I had never mattered to me before. Not in any real way. I had tried to live the same kind of redemption fantasy I projected onto him.

In any real sense, as a real person, I had never factored myself or needs into the equation. The need for my own peace and happiness could come only from a magic wand.

And now, I see that it can be a matter of a decision and a commitment. And I can see that by changing my stance with my son, I have created space to create peace and happiness.

I am beginning to see that facing that my son is flawed and flailing, is itself opening up space in me. Because I do not have to own it. It does not have to be about me and my own life. I can make that decision.

My son needs to find his own love. And I need to own my own.