life goes on and on and on update

[Triedntrue]

Just a review of previous posts. My son is 36 and bipolar with anxiety issues and some other diagnoses. My son has been in jail since October. I tried to 302 him and it went wrong in some ways right in others. He has always refused to medicate but finally has admitted that they do help him focus. They put him on medicine then released him to court system after a couple of days. I can't even remember the whole sequence now. He was in jail and moved from one county to the next repeatedly. Each time his medical treatment was ignored or changed so no consistency, finally got released tried to work and started into depression so checked himself into hospital. Stayed for a week doctors couldn't agree on best medicine and told him to go to outpatient elsewhere. Just signed up and bond revoked has been in jail ever since once again going from case to case county to county.

Lawyer is under review because he hasn't shown up for several of his hearings and was held in contempt. I am trying to detach but am sending him books and some commissary money. I do not visit because I told him a long time ago I wouldn't do that anymore way before all this started. He may get out in a couple of weeks and I am afraid I will fall into old patterns of enabling. He will be homeless but my brother who owns some investment properties might allow him to live in one of them while my son works on fixing it up for him. That still leaves utilities and food etc. His credit is shot so he probably won't be able to turn them on without a big deposit. He calls me daily and I have tried to only answer one or two times a day.

I am the communication with the lawyer who does not answer his calls. Always says he is going to go see him never does. I am not happy with the lawyer who my son hired and is his "friend" but I can not pay for another. I am tired of draining my retirement account for such things. Yesterday he asked me to send him a couple of hundred in the hopes that he would pay more attention to getting him out. I have done this on occasion but it will never end. Any way I told him that I would send him some on the condition that I was keeping his dog. The story behind that is when I 302ed him I took the dog. She had some medical issues that cost me a lot of time and money but I have grown attached to her and do not want to give her up because although he is not mean to her , he is not good at taking care of her.

He tried to guilt me out of this but I told him no dog no money. Besides the issue of me wanting to keep the dog I wanted him to understand there is no more free money. Anyway I know I should just let the chips fall where they may. He signed up for social security but doesn't seem to know any of the details. So I am not sure where that stands. He is horrible at paperwork but I feel it is something he needs to deal with himself. He is mentally capable of that in my opinion but has always left it to ex-wives or me. Another detachment issue "handle your own mail". He will just ignore it but not my problem. He is already trying to guilt me but I am holding on. Am I being unreasonable about not helping when he gets out of jail? I will not let him come to my house because he threatens and has even done so while in jail to destroy my property. He has never hit me but throws fits and yells and throws things when he does not get his way. Please give me advice on how to keep my boundaries.

 

[BusynMember]

My therapist (more than one actually) told me that aggressive language such as threatening to harm, getting into somebody's face and screaming, throwing items like ash trays and hard things and destroying property is violent behavior, just like hitting us. It scares us to death. If your son does any of the above, he is being violent. You should not let violence into your house in my opinion. Your house in my opinion is your sanctuary.

You can meet your son.more safely at busy gas stations, coffee shops, fast food places and restaurants if you feel like buying him a meal. If you help him pay at all give the funds directly to the person you are paying. Do not give your son any cash. You know he will spend it HIS way.

If you want to find him a place to stay and turn on his utilities, think about how that worked out last time. The last time is predictive of this time unless he had a real awakening and wants desperately to change. Not his words...by his actions. if you think it probably won't work, but feel obligated to try anyway, a good attitude to have in my opinion is that if it doesn't work out, at least you did your best. That is the attitude I take when I give money to somebody who is homeless. I hope they help themselves with my donation, but if they use it wrongly, I meant well and I dont stress over it.

You have the very reasonable option of forcing him to keep looking in his mail, whether he wants to or is lazy about it, to see if he got Disability and to apply for food cards and find his own shelter too. It is about YOU...what you can live with. He has already gotten more help and love from you than anyone can give to a beloved child. Now in my opinion it should be about you. Make sure you can look at yourself in the mirror.

Much love and light to a top notch mom warrior and fantastic mother who has done it all. Enjoy yourself today. Be good to you. As an animal lover thank you for loving and rescuing your son's dog.

 

[Triedntrue]

Thank you for your support, I know you are right I just need someone to tell me that right now. Feeling a little weak.

 

[Nomad]

Just a few quick thoughts
The paperwork for Soc Security can be daunting.
You might consider making an exception and helping him for this particular thing.
Is this for disability?
I’m not sure, but committing a crime, esp in recent past, might make a person ineligible.
Please don’t allow him to be abusive to you.
If you aren’t going already, consider therapy, at least short term
This sounds mega big time stressful.

 

[Triedntrue]

Nomad, Yes it is for disability and I am seeing a counselor who has told me it is very difficult to get. I am confused because he says he got social security but from what he is saying and what I have heard it doesn't seem like he knows what he got. I don't know if I can check it out with social security or not because of his age. I am not allowing him to come here because of his verbal abuse and threats. Thank you for your support.

 

[BusynMember]

You can't check it out unless he is with you, I believe. It can be hard to get but a biolar diagnosis is or at least used to be a sure thing although it can take up to three tries. He does need to follow up and for that I would help. Sometimes you need a lawyer. It is not a big investment to know he gets money and ra case manager and Medicare. My autistic. Son was and is greatly helped but of course he allows it
Still, if your son gets it, that's some thing's less to worry about. I don't think prison has anything to do with qualifying for Disability. I am not sure

I went to the Aging and Disability office and they did everything for is. They were great. It is not just for seniors. They help people with disabilities too and the service is free.

 

[Nomad]

Our daughter got disability on the first try. She did have a long long medical record and doctor Support.

I have heard from others that if you have a decent medical record and get turned down, that hiring an attorney that specializes in such cases almost always does the trick. It’s important that the applicant see a doctor for his condition regularly.

You are making very wise choices. I’m so sorry you are going through all this. Please take care of yourself. This is a lot on your plate.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Tired Mama, I'm so sorry you continue to struggle with your son's behaviors, when our kids have mental issues, it is very difficult for us. I empathize with you, this is not an easy path.

It sounds as if you are doing everything possible to get your son the supports he needs while doing your best to keep yourself detached. Boundaries are the most important feature with our adult kids, they have to be clear and impenetrable. To that end, while your son is detained, it may be prudent for you to write a list of what you are now willing to do and what you are not wiling to do and then present that to your son upon his release and stick to it. And, remember, that when your son does get out of jail and if you do not enable him, he will up the ante considerably with guilt and manipulation so be prepared. That is where support is crucial.

I can't recall if you have a therapist or if you've attended any NAMI courses, but I would strongly recommend therapy and any other supports you can find for YOU. You've covered all the bases for your son, have you done that for YOU?

Please stop dipping into your retirement for your son. There is no reason you should ever have to put up with threats, fits, angers, rages, blame, manipulations and any other bad behavior your son exhibits. Unless he is comatose or psychotic, he knows right from wrong and can be accountable for his behavior. You're breaking a dysfunctional enabling pattern with your son, breaking patterns is challenging especially when only one person wants that change. Your son has no commitment to change, he will only respond to the changes you demand, so stick with your boundaries.

I was watching this talk by Brene' Brown the other day and the part about boundaries is very good, (boundary part is at 7:35) if it feels right, check it out.

“You HAVE to Make a CHOICE: Am I Going to SHOW UP?” - Brené Brown (@BreneBrown) Top 10 Rules

Please give me advice on how to keep my boundaries.

The answer to your question, as far as I can see, has more to do with you, with us, then with our kids. That's why our support for ourselves is so necessary. We have to learn how to set boundaries that are for our well being and that takes us learning how to respond differently and usually learning how to care for ourselves better. I think that is especially true for older women like us, who have often been taught to adapt and give in and give up our own needs for the sake of others.

Hang in there Tired Mama, you've done a lot, you've done enough. Make sure you take care of YOU.

 

[Littleboylost]

Just a review of previous posts. My son is 36 and bipolar with anxiety issues and some other diagnoses. My son has been in jail since October. I tried to 302 him and it went wrong in some ways right in others. He has always refused to medicate but finally has admitted that they do help him focus. They put him on medicine then released him to court system after a couple of days. I can't even remember the whole sequence now. He was in jail and moved from one county to the next repeatedly. Each time his medical treatment was ignored or changed so no consistency, finally got released tried to work and started into depression so checked himself into hospital. Stayed for a week doctors couldn't agree on best medicine and told him to go to outpatient elsewhere. Just signed up and bond revoked has been in jail ever since once again going from case to case county to county.

Lawyer is under review because he hasn't shown up for several of his hearings and was held in contempt. I am trying to detach but am sending him books and some commissary money. I do not visit because I told him a long time ago I wouldn't do that anymore way before all this started. He may get out in a couple of weeks and I am afraid I will fall into old patterns of enabling. He will be homeless but my brother who owns some investment properties might allow him to live in one of them while my son works on fixing it up for him. That still leaves utilities and food etc. His credit is shot so he probably won't be able to turn them on without a big deposit. He calls me daily and I have tried to only answer one or two times a day.

I am the communication with the lawyer who does not answer his calls. Always says he is going to go see him never does. I am not happy with the lawyer who my son hired and is his "friend" but I can not pay for another. I am tired of draining my retirement account for such things. Yesterday he asked me to send him a couple of hundred in the hopes that he would pay more attention to getting him out. I have done this on occasion but it will never end. Any way I told him that I would send him some on the condition that I was keeping his dog. The story behind that is when I 302ed him I took the dog. She had some medical issues that cost me a lot of time and money but I have grown attached to her and do not want to give her up because although he is not mean to her , he is not good at taking care of her.

He tried to guilt me out of this but I told him no dog no money. Besides the issue of me wanting to keep the dog I wanted him to understand there is no more free money. Anyway I know I should just let the chips fall where they may. He signed up for social security but doesn't seem to know any of the details. So I am not sure where that stands. He is horrible at paperwork but I feel it is something he needs to deal with himself. He is mentally capable of that in my opinion but has always left it to ex-wives or me. Another detachment issue "handle your own mail". He will just ignore it but not my problem. He is already trying to guilt me but I am holding on. Am I being unreasonable about not helping when he gets out of jail? I will not let him come to my house because he threatens and has even done so while in jail to destroy my property. He has never hit me but throws fits and yells and throws things when he does not get his way. Please give me advice on how to keep my boundaries.

He is 36, mentally unhealthy, not out of touch with reality. Set and ke pcgood boundaries. He can stay in a shelter until he works long enough for your brother to have the utilities turned on.
Enabling will keep things from progressing and will be more of the same old same old.
Weather it is drugs mental illness ir both. They have choices, they are adults.
Easier said than done. I say this for both me and you.
I understand how tough these boundaries are to keep. Fall back on your resources and each other. Stay strong and know if you enable him he doesn’t seek to get better. It allows him to get worse. Focus on wanting him better.

 

[Triedntrue]

thank you I am listening to the video.Thank you all for your support it helps me everyday. When he called today he tried to guilt me about the dog. I just thought oh well. I would worry all the time if he had her.

 

[Triedntrue]

He called from jail frustrated about his attorney and no one will tell him when he is getting out. I cant help that. He started swearing and yelling and i hung up on him. He called back once, I ignored it. Called again and said did you seriously hang up on me and i said yes and if you swear i will again he said wait and see what happens when i get out. I hung up again and shut the phone off. It is getting easier and i feel no guilt. If he tries to come here he will find himself right back in jail.

 

[recoveringenabler]

At some point when we really see who they've become, it does get a bit easier to see their profound manipulations .......and in your case, a real threat. I forget if you already have a restraining order, but if you don't, that threat would be enough to get one now.

I'm glad it's getting easier. And, feeling no guilt? BRAVO!

You're doing so well TM.....and I know it's not easy.....do something very kind and nurturing for yourself.....you deserve it....

 

[Copabanana]

Just a quick note.

He is being abusive.

Everybody in prison wants out. Their attorneys are almost never responsive. It is their responsibility to handle it. Not their mothers.

Get mad.

Mental illness is not an excuse for abusive bad behavior.

He has had loads of help. More will not help.

If he is in prison there are people who will complete the disability application right before release. In my area, social services agencies will help. There is an organization called Disability Rghts that can help.

I would not accept any of his calls.

How dare he be outraged and snarky you hung up on him. Believe me he does not treat others this way. You do not deserve this.

 

[Deni D]

Tired Mama ~ congrats on hanging up on him. I agree with Copa, I doubt he’s talking to people in jail that way, he’d get his block knocked off. Sounds like he’s been using you as his emotional punching bag for a while now.

I’m in the process of trying to break that habit with my son. I did get a temporary restraining order and then dropped it with an agreement he’s not to come to my house and can only email me or call my significant other. He thinks the agreement is court ordered but the court really doesn’t want to get involved in that kind of stuff. My lawyer worked it into the court proceedings saying we had this agreement and the judge worded his discussion about it making it clear that we were to follow the agreement but slipped in quickly that it didn’t need to be entered into the proceedings. I know if I didn’t get this agreement done my son would feel entitled to phone blast me and show up on my doorstep to take his frustrations out on me.

The way I figure it with normal adult children is they can call their parents and tell them about things that upset them and you let them talk and get it out. Give them advice if they ask for it, help them when it’s actually appropriate (like if they had a house fire or something), but mostly be a listening ear for them to work it out themselves. And then you have the untreated Bipolar condition, which is normal times 10. So you get someone who has no insight to their behavior, is overly emotional and needs someone to blame because they have made such a sh*t show of their lives. Who’s the one person who’s always been there for them? Must be that person’s fault because they’ve been through all of it with them. And who’s the one person who they figure will never walk away from them no matter how horribly they behave?

As much as we would like to give them emotional support and advice if they want, adult children who act like ours do will not allow that. They don’t want emotional support, they want a hostage they can use to abuse, blame and get to rescue them from their bad choices.

For now I’m holding strong but only because I have boundaries in place that other people have helped to put there. And I’m not going to ease up until/if I feel this crap is going to stop. When I no longer get nasty emails and my significant other is not getting the tantrums then I’ll see what I’ll do about it. For now he’s got the uber to use to get to the doctor/dentist/therapist/social services and I pay any out of pocket expenses for them if he chooses to take advantage of the help.

It’s too bad HE made his life so hard. Too bad your son did the same. Hang in there, you've got this.

 

[Triedntrue]

Thank you so much deni what you say is so true and i am working on setting better boundaries. You have given excellent advice.

 

[GoingNorth]

he said wait and see what happens when i get out

TM, immediately report this to the authorities at his jail. This is a threat and he should bear the consequences for making it. Don't wait for him to get out and possibly hurt you. Saying you will call the police if he shows up will do you no good if he shows up with a knife or gun while you are sleeping.

Call the Warden and tell them he's threatened you.

 

[Copabanana]

With respect to the counsel of GN.

My son has said on multiple occasions something similar. Like: wait and see if I will ever talk to you. Or. When you are old you will be alone.

The distinction is my son adds the nature of the harm that will befall me. Tm. Your son does not. It could be baby talk. It could be ominous.

While cruel and hurtful, I left my son alone to nurse his feelings, and more importantly I set a limit to protect myself.

When I read the comment by tm's son, it is true there is unsaid if there is the implication and threat of revenge and if so, what. Unlike my son her son does not indicate where on the spectrum of retaliation he is falling. I think the police would take into consideration this: is there imminent danger? Is there a specific plan? What son said sounds childish to me.

He could well be implicating the desire to harm her, this is true. I do not know. While I wonder if in a correctional environment, this would be considered a criminal threat, they could well talk to him and tell him to lay off.

 

[Triedntrue]

I took it more like you said Copa he has said it many times. I do not ignore but don't want to go overboard either. I have however taken the advice of recovering enabler and written a list of what i am not willing to do when he gets out. I brought up the threats and language and other things as well. I am going to mail it to him in jail. GN i appreciate your advice and if it gets more threatening i will def do that. I have made it clear in the letter that he is not allowed near me . thank you all.

 

[newstart]

Just a review of previous posts. My son is 36 and bipolar with anxiety issues and some other diagnoses. My son has been in jail since October. I tried to 302 him and it went wrong in some ways right in others. He has always refused to medicate but finally has admitted that they do help him focus. They put him on medicine then released him to court system after a couple of days. I can't even remember the whole sequence now. He was in jail and moved from one county to the next repeatedly. Each time his medical treatment was ignored or changed so no consistency, finally got released tried to work and started into depression so checked himself into hospital. Stayed for a week doctors couldn't agree on best medicine and told him to go to outpatient elsewhere. Just signed up and bond revoked has been in jail ever since once again going from case to case county to county.

Lawyer is under review because he hasn't shown up for several of his hearings and was held in contempt. I am trying to detach but am sending him books and some commissary money. I do not visit because I told him a long time ago I wouldn't do that anymore way before all this started. He may get out in a couple of weeks and I am afraid I will fall into old patterns of enabling. He will be homeless but my brother who owns some investment properties might allow him to live in one of them while my son works on fixing it up for him. That still leaves utilities and food etc. His credit is shot so he probably won't be able to turn them on without a big deposit. He calls me daily and I have tried to only answer one or two times a day.

I am the communication with the lawyer who does not answer his calls. Always says he is going to go see him never does. I am not happy with the lawyer who my son hired and is his "friend" but I can not pay for another. I am tired of draining my retirement account for such things. Yesterday he asked me to send him a couple of hundred in the hopes that he would pay more attention to getting him out. I have done this on occasion but it will never end. Any way I told him that I would send him some on the condition that I was keeping his dog. The story behind that is when I 302ed him I took the dog. She had some medical issues that cost me a lot of time and money but I have grown attached to her and do not want to give her up because although he is not mean to her , he is not good at taking care of her.

He tried to guilt me out of this but I told him no dog no money. Besides the issue of me wanting to keep the dog I wanted him to understand there is no more free money. Anyway I know I should just let the chips fall where they may. He signed up for social security but doesn't seem to know any of the details. So I am not sure where that stands. He is horrible at paperwork but I feel it is something he needs to deal with himself. He is mentally capable of that in my opinion but has always left it to ex-wives or me. Another detachment issue "handle your own mail". He will just ignore it but not my problem. He is already trying to guilt me but I am holding on. Am I being unreasonable about not helping when he gets out of jail? I will not let him come to my house because he threatens and has even done so while in jail to destroy my property. He has never hit me but throws fits and yells and throws things when he does not get his way. Please give me advice on how to keep my boundaries.

 

[newstart]

I took it more like you said Copa he has said it many times. I do not ignore but don't want to go overboard either. I have however taken the advice of recovering enabler and written a list of what i am not willing to do when he gets out. I brought up the threats and language and other things as well. I am going to mail it to him in jail. GN i appreciate your advice and if it gets more threatening i will def do that. I have made it clear in the letter that he is not allowed near me . thank you all.

Hi Tired mama, I just read your newest post. My mind right now is on this precious dog you are taking care of. I am afraid that your son may use that dog to get money or harm you. It is so hard when you have to know how your child is doing and you have to stay away from them. It is the hardest balance in the world. I wish there was a way you could know about his well being without having to take all his continued abuse. I remember writing an email to my daughter and telling her that I am taking care of my mental and spiritual health and I will not be talking to her or taking any of her calls. Even though that is hard to do, I must admit I felt relief. I am not sure if us moms can truly feel genuine relief from an obnoxious adult child but the relief comes from getting away from the constant harming, be it words or actions. I pray for your broken heart and your mind constantly trying to figure out your next steps. I know you want to hit him on the head and scream 'fly right' once and for all, I know I want to knock my daughter upside her head and scream 'For God's sake get your life in order' so there will be peace all over. I am so sorry for all your grief and unfortunately I understand it like it's mine. God's deepest protection all around you.