LLOOONNNNGGG Night, NEED ADVICE

[neednewtechnique]

I kinda like daisylover's approach as well, but it just seems so harsh. Don't get me wrong, in most cases, that is EXACTLY what it takes to get THROUGH to our difficult child's and it probably would make quite an impression. But with her still being new to our family and trying to get used to having "parents" and people who ARE paying attention to her whereabouts and making sure she follows rules, it seems more like we need to find ways to help her LEARN how to handle these changes in parenting styles from what she is used to, rather than just punish her for breaking the rules.

Once we get her used to having involved parents and she gets more adjusted to living in our house with our rules, I DEFINITELY would take daisylover's approach!!

I have never read that book that you referred to about this grounding system, but I am thinking of trying it to see.

As far as checking in, she was SUPPOSED to be coming home to check in, that was the plan, for the same reasons that were mentioned above by someone. However, her LAST check-in time, she called and said that she had lost track of time and then asked if she needed to come home or if she could stay where she was (supposedly at B's house). This was a lapse in judgement on my part, because I agreed that it was okay for her to stay there without coming home to check in, but it was only once the entire day that she didn't actually COME here to check in.

 

[flutterbee]

She was already grounded because she wasn't where she said she was going to be. And she did it again.

Honestly, I don't think grounding is the answer. It didn't work once; why would it work the second time? I agree with Linda (Timer Lady). In addition, she would not be going anywhere unsupervised again for a long, long time. I don't mean a set time frame. She's proven she can't be trusted. She would have to prove to me that she can be trusted before I would even consider letting her go somewhere unsupervised.

 

[Marguerite]

NNT, you've been putting a lot of thought into this. We learn from our mistakes - and it sounds like you've identified the mistakes here, at least some of them. This is good.

The graduated system sounds like it's worth considering and maybe talking it through (I like Linda/Timer Lady's advice here) because she HAS had a lot more freedom and to seriously curtail it would cause a lot of dissent and may prove futile. But involving her in the discussion would perhaps be a good idea.

Something I remember with easy child at this age - although she has a very strong will of her own, she was too easily influenced by friends (yet still a lot less so than many others her age) and this was why some rules consistently got broken. For example, although she was respectful and polite to me virtually all the time, when she had friends over she would put me down and laugh, clearly trying to present herself to her friends as the one in charge (not me). And if I chided her in front of her friends it produced a major meltdown - "How dare you embarrass me in front of N?"
I know her friends were embarrassed by her behaviour as well, and she and I sat down to talk it through when no friends were present - she said she didn't know why she did this, she was aghast at her own behaviour but she couldn't control it. So we set up a reminder system - she gave me permission ahead of time to stop her in her tracks if she ever did it again. Now, I shouldn't have needed permission, but my ultimate goal was to teach her maturity and self-control in this - and this was the only way to do it.
And it worked.

The phone I was talking about - it's called "Tic Talk" and I'm trying to find out if it's available in the US. It's a way of ensuring your child can be reached BY YOU and that your child has a few phone numbers (pre-programmed by you) which they can call to make contact. The bill goes to the parents, there is no text messaging, and the phone is microchipped so it can be linked to any out-of-bounds area the parents wish to program in. If the child goes into this area, the parent is immediately sent a message notifying them that the child is out of bounds. There is also a website where you can track exactly where your child is at any time.

This phone is marketed in Australia as a means of parents keeping track of their children so they know the kids can reach them in an emergency, but cannot run up a huge bill or waste time playing games or constantly texting. It's getting back to what a kid's phone should be for - safety and security. If it had been available a few years ago, we'd have got one for difficult child 3.

Of course, a wily kid could beat the system by leaving the phone somewhere in bounds and then going out of bounds without a phone, but even a phone like this - unless they have acquired an illicit phone, most kids wouldn't be caught without one. (I just had a more detailed look at the website - it looks like the online monitoring/out of bounds area isn't available in the US)
It doesn't look much like a phone - more like a very small, round keyring that clips onto a backpack. it has four numbers on it for the preset numbers. No key pad.

I reckon Simone Warne should have got one for Shane, judging from today's headlines - him having a Tic Talk should have been part of the deal for their reconciliation, he made a BIG mistake when he sent a text message to his mistress, "I'm just talking to my kids, the back door's open" and accidentally sent it to his wife Simone. OOPS!

As I said, easy child at 13 (even at 15) knew she needed supervision and sometimes even asked me to forbid her to go to a party! If she could say I had forbidden it and make me sound like the baddie, she felt safe AND free of guilt over not going. When she had more freedom, things would begin to go wrong, so I had to keep t he reins fairly tight. It was always open to negotiation, though, and I do think this negotiation is the beginning of a healthy understanding of personal responsibility. So follow Linda's advice, set up a conference to discuss what went wrong (on all sides) and what each person (including difficult child) thinks should be the response. Discuss all the ramifications - "if we do not punish at all, what will that teach you?" "If we ground you again, takeaway the computer and phone, what will that do?"
and so on.

A lot of social stuff at this age is tied up in texting. Not all of it is healthy - in fact I think a lot of it is unhealthy. An enforced ban on phone use except for emergencies or routine "I'm finished at sport now, please come and pick me up as arranged" is about as much as she should need for a while. We didn't have that option when easy child was 13 - mobile phones were VERY new, the "phone home for free" option was the best we had. husband or I had the use of the mobile phone (a brick, which I had won in a competition) but very few people had one back then.
Since then - these things have come in everywhere and the big problem, as someone else pointed out, is that you can get a call on your mobile and YOU could be anywhere, the caller could be anywhere and you HAVE to rely on people's honesty. While our Aussie police now have legal powers to track anybody's phone/mobile/internet usage with no need of warrant (scary) I do feel parents should have the same rights, if we're going to let the police do this (they could track an ex-girlfriend or her new boyfriend, purely for personal reasons, and nothing can be done about it).

So rather than totally take away a mobile phone, because I DO think it has been a great leap forward for a kid to have a phone to call for help or assistance, maybe get something like Tic Talk which is set up just for this sort of situation.

Or maybe just threaten her with one? (just kidding - sort of)

Where does husband stand on this? She IS his daughter, after all. He shouldn't be leaving it all to you, he should be stepping up to the plate. Being so close in age to her can't make it any easier for you - not that I'm referring to inexperience - it's the lack of age difference from HER point of view that will cause much more trouble. I see it with my kids - easy child & difficult child 1 can discipline difficult child 3, but not easy child 2/difficult child 2, because she is only 7 years older, he just won't accept it from her. And as we all get older, the age gap seems to shrink.

Good luck with this one.

Marg

 

[timer lady]

by the way,

ATT Wireless has programmable kid protection. Your difficult child can have just about any phone, but you, the parent has total control over the phone.

I program kt's phone (actually my phone - it's in my name & on my account) through my acct on the company website.

I program the number of minutes she can talk to various people, I could (if kt had messaging) limit the number of messages & the length, who she sends & receives messages from - the same with phone calls & web access.

ATT has made it very easy to take back the control of a cell phone with-o the child totally losing the phone.

I hope you are having a better day with difficult child. Our children are not for the faint of heart.

 

[Hound dog]

If it helps, toward the end of the grounding sentence like the one I posted I use a graduated system to help them ease back into freedom. If they do alright with the graduating back then there is no problem.

BUT if they screw up during the graduating period, they do go right back to the beginning. Maybe for not as long, depends on how they screwed up. Not to go back sort of loses the point.

I explained to my kids that trust and privilege go hand in hand. If I can't trust you to be where you're supposed to be, then you don't get to go anywhere. If you can't be trusted to get from point A to point B without going off somewhere else, then you'll have adult supervision to ensure you DO get from point A to point B. That sort of thing.

The fact that difficult child did this during a time when she was already "grounded" says that trying to be easy and understanding is probably not going to work for her. She didn't get the message. And this is behavior you want to nip in the bud if at all possbible as soon as possible.

If you think 3 months is too harsh, you can shorten the time frame. But before you do you'll want to consider how furious you were that night, how worried to death you were, as well as all of the truely horrid things that can happen to young girls at night wandering the town. And yes even in a small town. The statistics might be lower, but it does still happen. We had a 13 yr old girl who'd done pretty much the same as your daughter a couple of years back. She didn't come home at all. Someone raped her and slit her throat. Yes she'd been out with other kids. They got her in the 3 block area where she'd left them to go to her house. We live in a small town. They never caught the person.

Remember, this is a set time frame, not the rest of her life. My kids were TTs all the way. But if they tested the rules they were diciplined accordingly. Once they were able to function within the house rules, their freedom and privileges increased also accordingly. Believe it or not for the most part my kids did just about everything other kids their ages did.

The teen years are the hardest in my opinion. On one hand you're trying to teach and encourage them to become independent of you, while on the other trying to keep them safe and teach them to be responsible. All the while their listening to friends brag about how much they get to do (whether it's true or not) and are constantly testing the limits. (difficult children can take this to new heights) They depend on us as parents to set the boundries for them, even when they don't like what they are.

When my kids threw their hissy fits and pity parties over their punishments I would tell them that my job was to be their Mother, not their friend. They didn't get the friend part til they were grown.

Hugs

 

[neednewtechnique]

Well, my husband and I have been working on this together as well, however since the two of them are still working on building a relationship with one another, everyone in our house has mutually agreed that although things will be decided upon by all of us together, difficult child included, that I will be the one to deliver the news. When we finally found out we were going to take custody of her, we had a long period of scheduled visitations that took place and they were gradually increased as the time approached. Her and I, we bonded, strongly, almost IMMEDIATELY, but for the two of them, trying to patch up 12 years of a bad relationship/no relationship between them, she has had a difficult time accepting him, so we leave all the unpleasant things to me for the time being. But he is DEFINITELY still involved, and we always work things out between the three of us.

We had a talk this evening after the movie, and once we discussed the movie, we had a talk about what the consequences would be. We DID decide to go ahead with this graduated program, and it is spread out over the course of 8 weeks (so close to three months) there being 4 stages, each lasting 2 weeks provided she stays out of trouble. If she gets into trouble, we will either make her start back over at the beginning, move her back a few stages, or simply "hold" her at one certain stage longer than the original 2 weeks.

I made sure that we talked about how things should have been done differently and also made sure to explain to her the reasons why it is important for us to know where she is, who she's with, and what she's doing. After we talked about that stuff, I showed her what I called the "rough draft" of the graduated program, and she read through it and we talked about each stage and I asked her if anything jumped out at her that she had a problem with or anything that she would change. She didn't think of anything, so I told her to sleep on it, think it over and then we could discuss it again tomorrow evening. I was sure to tell her that just because she WANTS something to change, doesn't mean it will, but if she could make a good case for herself, we would be willing to consider a compromise. I also told her that at the end of the whole thing, we would sit down together again and discuss what the "normal" rules will be for what she can and can't do. I told her that she could spend some time thinking about what SHE feels she should be allowed to do, so that when the time comes for us to all talk about it, she would have input in what decisions are made. I did tell her that if she decides that there is something she would like to promote to us, she would have to tell us why she should be allowed to do whatever it is, and would have to find ways to convince us that she could be trusted in those situations and ways to prove that she can handle those situations responsibly.

There were not fights, no temper tantrums, she agreed that she thought this would HELP her get used to having rules and she added something else too, she said she thought it would give her some time to learn how to set boundaries for herself so that she can be mature enough to have her own set of rules for herself that "fall within our boundaries, of course" she said...lol it was kinda nice to get through this without a meltdown, for me OR for her, and she will not spend the entire 8 weeks locked up either, and this is important, because simply grounding them and then saying, okay it's over, go back to normal... that doesn't help anything. You can ONLY be sure they won't make the same mistakes again if you are giving them a chance to be in situations where they have to make the choice. With additional monitoring, it will help them be accountable to make the RIGHT choices, and watching so closely will help ensure their safety AND your quick intervention if they DO make the wrong choice.

 

[Hound dog]

I think you handled it well. :bravo:

 

[Marguerite]

That sounds really positive. I understand what you say about husband and his need to let you be the villain right now - it makes sense. Here's hoping this works. It does sound like involving her in her own upbringing is maybe going to work better. Especially if she's already been having to raise herself, at her mother's.

Marg

 

[gcvmom]

FWIW, my 13yo difficult child is not allowed out after dark (except for Halloween, and even then, he's supervised from a distance by an adult). He does not have a cell phone.

In our house, a serious violation of trust, like your difficult child pulled on you, would be grounds for basically in-house arrest. No privileges of any kind (computer, video games, TV, visits with friends, etc.) for a significant period of time (we're talking weeks). Homework and chores would be difficult child's primary activities. When those are finished, difficult child is allowed to read or do some other quiet activity. After the sentence has been served, it takes a very long time to earn back trust, so there is a very short leash during a probation period.

We just came off a 10-day revoking of his precious Gameboy for lying to me about homework being finished. That was a painful experience for him that I don't think he'll soon forget.

You would be wise to hold a firm line on deception and manipulation of any kind.

Just my 2 cents!

 

[DFrances]

When teenagers are responsible, they can enjoy more privileges, but if they are irresponsible, they need more restrictions. Grounding may not always be the best choice for producing the change of heart that parents truly desire to see in their children. Grounding is a form of discipline used by parents mostly during their children's teen years.

Because most parents believe that teens are too old to spank, they favor grounding as a more appropriate means of punishment.

Typically, grounding is used as a form of punishment with the expectation that the teen will suffer enough to want to avoid the bad behavior in the future. Is it working? Grounding is simply punishment. Using grounding can severely limit parents in their quest to help their teen. I think one of the things we need to remember is that it takes just a manner of minutes to get mad and dole out a punishment. The result- an angry child who blames the parents for the consequence. It takes a lot more time and energy to get to the heart of the issue... lots of talking and sharing.

It's essential we build strong relationships with our kids, so we can communicate effectively with each other. Parenting takes time, but it is worth it.

 

[neednewtechnique]

That is EXACTLY what we were trying to accomplish. We wanted this to be more of a LEARNING experience for her, rather than just punishment because she did something wrong. This is the reason that, although we took some time talking about it Saturday night, I held off on what to do about it until the next day, so that she could let our discussion sink in before worrying about being upset that she was being punished. Plus, just saying "your grounded" doesn't really help her get the trust back. However, gradually easing her back into her life with added supervision, I think she will slowly begin to learn that if she wants us to trust her, she must follow the rules.

We try to always make sure she is involved with decisions that are made regarding her, whether they be good or bad, she is old enough that she should have a say in her life, and although she may not always get exactly what she wants, if she can make a good case for herself, her father and I are often willing to compromise and come to an agreement that will work for everyone. When we discussed this new idea with our difficult child, she agreed with it, she wasn't upset or angry, and seemed to really be on board with it. I think it helped make everyone's relationship stronger, even though the trust is not there anymore, at least for now, she knows that she is on the path to getting that back. And presenting it in this way really makes her think about that, rather than focus on being "punished".

 

[ck1]

Sounds like you're on the right road to helping your difficult child make better decisions. We involve my difficult child in the decision-making process when possible because he'll try harder to make it work if he's part of it. When he's just told what to do he tends to want to fight it, even if it makes sense, then it takes longer for him to come around.