NEED ADVICE talked to difficult child's PO today!

[Allan-Matlem]

Hi,
My gut feeling is
1 someone has to give him a vision , hope for the future so he can make a commitment,
take responsibility for his life , right medications , therapy , skills, being involved with positive young adults and peers
2 Consequences at most teach us not to be caught , but don't address the issue what type of person I want to be
3 Advocating prison will damage your relationship with him , and you are giving him a message that you don't believe that he has a chance of recovery.
4 I would go for a replacement setting. Your husband's idea is a good one giving him an apartment. Maybe you could get a boarder who for staying with your boy, being his confidant cheerleader stay without paying rent , food etc. Your kid would need some structured day, work/study etc . The PO could supervise etc . I think this will be cheaper than RTCs.
Sending prayers and positive thoughts in your direction

Allan

 

[rejectedmom]

Janet, Thank you for your imput. I truly value your opinion and compassion. You are right we can always put them out. You are pretty comfortable that prison is a deterrant for Ant. You have a history to base that on. I do not have that. I have to accept the fact that the threat of returning to jail may not be enough to keep my difficult child in line. I must be totally prepared to act if he should fail to reform his old ways. My difficult child has slammed and locked so many doors shut. He has no one but me and husband who are willing to lend him support and assistance to get on track and stay on track. That is a heavy burden for a mother to bear. What we would like to know is that difficult child is ready and we are not wasting out time and energy. That wol make this decision alot easier to make. -RM

 

[witzend]

[ QUOTE ]
I often think about Janet's and Ant's story. It was not until Janet brought Ant home and gave him the support system he needed that he began to really turn around. I openly admit that Ant had come a much longer way before Janet brough him home than my difficult child has come but the beautiful posts she has been making have given me much to think about and also much hope. -RM

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to remind you that Ant spent - what was it, Janet - two years in jail before he came home, and that was his choice. And how many times did Janet bail him out and let him come back home before society finally said enough was enough? And how awful did Janet feel? As I recall Ant's behavior was atrocious. But - and you can correct me if I'm wrong - he never beat her. He did get in drunken brawls and endangered many lives with his drunk driving. He terrified everyone around him with his behavior towards his girlfriend and his son. But the bottom line as far as comparing your difficult child's situation with Ant's is, after burning every bridge he had Ant got over his BS pride that he wasn't going to play their game anymore, admitted he was wrong and asked for help. Your difficult child has not.

I've thought some more about what you posted, and I would run away and not look back at this. This is an opportunity for you and for him for him to straighten up his life because he has to. He's had a hissy fit in prison, not done what he could for himself to get himself out early, then he and his PO expect you to let him out early anyway to go live with you with absolutely no plan whatsoever other than you are the fall guy.

I think that all of us know that our kids have good qualities. But what happens if you and husband get run over by a mack truck tomorrow. Will difficult child have the ability to keep himself out of trouble? You are not letting him learn for himself if you let him come home right now. Will they keep him for his full sentence? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe he'll get his head out of his hoo-haw and realize that these are his choices, not yours.

Whose fault is it that it's not in the court file that he was high when he beat you? His. Maybe he will learn that if he tells the truth at least he can ask for help. Being a drunk who beats your mom is nothing to brag about. But being a psycho who does it because they felt like it is way worse. What does he think society does with people like that? There's not much you can do with them, so he might as well admit that he has a substance abuse problem and ask for help. If he doesn't, the substance abuse becomes an excuse to behave that way and there is no help (and no sympathy) for him.

Just as his PO can ask the court to make conditions of his release, you can as well. Why should you make a plan for his release? It's his release, not yours. Let him make a plan and if you think you want to try it, I say go for it. But everyone needs to know that one single instance of misbehavior and you kick his behind out, change the locks, and let his PO know he's not at your house anymore. Just as the PO would if he violated the terms of his parole.

 

[Allan-Matlem]

What we would like to know is that difficult child is ready and we are not wasting out time and energy
If there was a 1% chance that it would work I think you would take it.
he has to make the commitment and get your help and others to have a plan in place so he can succeed.

Allan

 

[rejectedmom]

Allen-Matlem, There is much wisdom in your post. The vision is something we have consistantly tried to implant in our difficult child's brain. The glitch is that he has to be open to it. Is he? That is a question I wish I had an answer to. I fear to put him on his own in an apt because he makes so many stupid choices when he has no one to moniter him. I do not know anyone who would be willing to live with him and monitor in exchange for free rent. I do agree that would be a good solution. -RM

 

[rejectedmom]

Witz, Thank you so much for your concern. I admited in my earlier post that My difficult child had not come close to Ant's progress. My difficult child has not been home for a year. He has been in prison most of that time. He was sent to a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) in May but walked away in August. We went and got him, took him back to the PO and told them to put him in jail because we were not taking him home at that time. I have never visited him at the prison because I had told him once a long time ago that if he ended up there I would not go that I didn't do prison. So I do think he knows that we are capable of sending him back there.

difficult child does go to AA meetings and bible study at the prison but I do not know how much he has really bought into the program. I do think you have an unclear percepton of how my injury came about. difficult child did not beat me up. He was agitated after a telephone therapy session that brought on a rage. He kicked me once in the side while in that rage. He stopped instantly and called 911 for help. He has consistently shown remorse and concern for my health since that fateful night. Also for the record, he has asked for help in finding a place to live. He has never asked us to take him back into our house.

"Whose fault is it that it's not in the court file that he was high when he beat you? His. Maybe he will learn that if he tells the truth at least he can ask for help."

That is a good point. I just asked difficult child if he had done drugs that night when I spoke to him this week and he answered me truthfully. He has never admitted that to me before now. -RM

 

[Allan-Matlem]

Hi,
Maybe we need not only creative thinking , but as Ant's Mom many a time asked us to put our hands together and pray for positive outcomes. Praying helps if you also really believe it will and can happen.

I saw this movie , downloaded for $5 from I saw this movie , downloaded for $5 from

http://thesecret.tv/home.html -
It is a motivational talk movie and the secret is based on a principle of the universe , the 'law of attraction. ' The law of attraction says that the way we think and the feeling and energy we express attracts forces which support and manifest our wishes , thoughts , complaints. So the more we complain about for eg aggressive, violent communication, disrespect, intellectual bullying , all we do is attract more of this aggressive communication, disrespect , intellectual bullying. The more we talk about the need to avoid disrespect etc we attract it . Maybe you have to change your board name to something more positive .
How do we get a kid to at least think of his future , who he wants to be and be involved in a discussion on how to achieve this. We don't lecture , only ask questions and even better if it is somebody else , other than parents



Yours Allan

 

[rejectedmom]

Allan- I do believe in prayer. I have studied many forms of religion Philosophy and mysticism at a college level. The movie sounds similar to the teachings of Shakti Gawain are you familiar with her works? -RM

 

[Sunlight]

I do believe in the power of prayer and that it has helped my son, put things and people in his path to help him. however, I have to further clarify some of witzend's comments, I quote her and add my own remarks below hers:

"I'd like to remind you that Ant spent - what was it, Janet - two years in jail before he came home, and that was his choice."

It was not his choice. it was a sentence imposed that he came home to face due to three underage DUI's.

"And how many times did Janet bail him out and let him come back home before society finally said enough was enough?

I bailed him out one time only, long before any of the "big" stuff-when he was still 18. he then went to his gramma's. I have not let him live in my home from age 18 to age 23 except for one week when his son was born. believe me ...."society" is a myth. it is very hard to get into jail. they are crowded and most times they let you off too easy. you get many chances unless it is a major felony. ant's problem was multiple law evasions, not paying his fines and not showing for hearings after the initial charges.

ant terrorized me many a time with threats, and once shoved me as I was calling 911 in fear from him. he never beat me but he swore and kicked walls, holes in doors, trashed his room, my screen door, other things on his way thru the house in a rage. but then again...drunk rages are unpredictable. I did call the cops on him time and again and he served part of his sentence in alleg co jail for the issue of shoving me that night. I was not injured.

if I did not think ant was truly contrite, I would not take him in. he also knew he would work from his first day out, pay rent and pitch in. in 5 months he has not failed to do so. the first time he shows any sign of his evil twin...he is out.

I also have the back up of having his police officer brother and my boyfriend living with me. Ant's dad was a co-conspirator with ant. I had no support or backup. my other son and I could not control ant when he dad was enabling.

boyfriend and my older son are like me...zero tolerance. so, ant has to comply because if I didnt throw him out, they would if need be with no one to take his part and he knows it.

the other thing is Kaleb. ant loves him so much.

I am not saying ant will forever be fine, but for now he is, we will deal with what we have to if and when the time comes.

 

[witzend]

[ QUOTE ]
I do think you have an unclear percepton of how my injury came about. difficult child did not beat me up. He was agitated after a telephone therapy session that brought on a rage. He kicked me once in the side while in that rage. He stopped instantly and called 911 for help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I guess it's a fine point. I think that a lot of people would say that I do feel that if someone gets agitated and kicks you and breaks your rib, he has beaten you.

[ QUOTE ]
He has consistently shown remorse and concern for my health since that fateful night.

[/ QUOTE ]

Has he felt bad and done something about it, or has he just felt bad?

[ QUOTE ]
He has never asked us to take him back into our house. Also for the record, he has asked for help in finding a place to live.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that confuses me even more. If he hasn't complied with what's required of him for early release, hasn't asked to move in with you, and you didn't offer, what could possibly motivate this lady into saying that she would only consider early release if he went to live with you? Other than that you ticked her off by calling her boss and complaining about her and she has no idea of what to do with difficult child. I'm not saying this to be judgmental about you in any way. I know that you would cut off your right arm if you thought it would help him have a safe and happy life. I am being totally judgmental about her. I think you ticked her off and she is setting you up by playing on your better nature. I think it would be unfair to yourself to make all of the plans and sacrifice in this.

 

[Sunlight]

PS when ant was in an apartment in the county near the jail he was in he was paying for it himself, working and had a phone. he made friends of every lonely soul who came along and took them in, paid for their food and let them stay there because he was so lonely. he drank because he missed family and home/familiar/safe people. that put him back in jail for a probation violation. once he was allowed back here in the area he knows, with people to care about him, he did much better.

 

[Allan-Matlem]

Thanks for the reference , I will do a search. Maybe difficult child should see the movie
in my humble opinion I think the issue is finding ways that will make RM's son stay out of prison constructive. Prison is not the answer. A boarder could stay with them and if he is a PO even better. I have read a story where the boarder befriended the kid and things turned around. In any case take things slowly , check all the options

Allan

 

[witzend]

[ QUOTE ]
"I'd like to remind you that Ant spent - what was it, Janet - two years in jail before he came home, and that was his choice."

It was not his choice. it was a sentence imposed that he came home to face due to three underage DUI's. ...ant's problem was multiple law evasions, not paying his fines and not showing for hearings after the initial charges.


[/ QUOTE ]

Janet, it was his choices that got him where he was. No one else made those choices for him, and they weren't the things that you would have chosen for him if you could. But you couldn't.

[ QUOTE ]
I bailed him out one time only...

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I didn't really mean "bail" in the literal sense. I mean how many times you opened your door to him in the middle of the night or went to pick him up when he got into trouble.

[ QUOTE ]
"society" is a myth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Until that one time when someone who has the authority to say that they represent society gets you on their radar and decides they're going to come after you. Then society is real.

[ QUOTE ]
if I did not think ant was truly contrite, I would not take him in.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I think that is what was so important for Ant's continued recovery. You had to know for yourself that Ant meant what he said. I know that you would be strong enough to call him on it if he stepped out of line, and it would be the right thing to do for everyone. Not an easy thing.

 

[Allan-Matlem]

Witzend,
Unlike you and Ant's mom I don't talk from experience.
in my humble opinion prison for RM's son does not give any hope or vision for the future except further alienation from the family
Allan

 

[witzend]

Allan

No, I would never offer that vision to anyone. We got what we have from allowing PO's and therapists to make decisions for M and for us that we would and should have never made if we had known. And what we got from it is people who look at our family and pity us at best, and judge and exclude us at worst.

My advice isn't a vision for difficult child, it's a warning for RM. Her son is 19 years old and it's his life now. If she's uncomfortable with this plan, there's must be a reason for it, and maybe she should listen to her gut. Maybe I'm wrong, but she probably wouldn't have asked for advice if she were totally comfortable with the idea.

Thanks for the continued support of me and my family, Allan. We've had all our decisions so easy, and we're so happy with where we're at as a family unit, because everything turned out exactly as we wanted it to. Not.

And it's all because of our choices, not M's. Not.

And it's all our fault. Not.

 

[tiredmommy]

I think it may be time for this thread to get back to the business at hand: offering well thought out advice and support to RM. The last several posts have really not added much to the discussion.

 

[witzend]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it may be time for this thread to get back to the business at hand: offering well thought out advice and support to RM. The last several posts have really not added much to the discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I had wanted to be supportive of RM's concerns that maybe what was being offered wasn't the right thing and to go with her gut and turn it back around to the PO for further suggestions. And of Janet's stepping up and doing the right thing for Ant when he needed it and how successful it turned out for them.

I still think so.

 

[tiredmommy]

Witz,
I'm just asking that the thread go back to addressing RM's concerns.

 

[witzend]

I'm just saying that I thought I was.

 

[tiredmommy]

Great. Any further critiques of each others parenting successes and failures can go to pm.