Need help from adoptive parents

[OTE]

SOT I haven't had TV in my house in a few years now. Life is so much better without it! But when I did there were at least two adoption " reunion" shows on TV. That I watched anyway. My son saw one of these in prison... Everything comes up roses. Both these shows were about US closed adoptions. In this country it is illegal for an agency to disclose info They can forward a letter. But that's it. One of these shows starred a private investigator. There are no laws governing them. It did document how they did the search. As I said it starts with the birth cert and whatever bits of info come from the family. It can be very hard to make progress and they do sometimes get nowhere. i believe the fee starts upward of $1,000. As you know, DNA is medical info and is private unless the person consents for the info to be used for a specific purpose. There's no DNA db out there for anyone to search.

 

[BusynMember]

OTE i never watch reality shows.

I dont really care how kids who were given away at birth find their heritages. As I said, I would have found mine. If you give birth to a child that child is peobably going to want to find out her story, her looks, her nationality, where she came to exist, if there are siblings etc. And no matter how they find out, I feel its about their lives and they have every right to find out exactly how they came to be and why they were not kept. It torments many if not most adopted kids. I feel they have the right to ask tje woman who did not keep her, why. Abandonment issues in adopted kids are huge. They in my opinion deserve an explanation. Or to ask for one.

I in other words I have sympathy for the child who had no say in an adoption and was given away at birth. So I dont care how it comes to be that the child finds what he feels he needs to know. We, as adoptive parents, cant offer this. I am good with my kids looking and finding. I dont care how they find out if they search.

On the reality shows, i am very loathe to trust anything I see on a reality show so I cant comment on that.

No offense meant. I just very strongly am on the side of the child who had no choice in his adoption and often suffers with knowing the details. Life is not fair. 25 years ago a young woman may have been told tje adoption would be sealed forever but times have changed and I think most woman, much later, WANT to meet the child they were often pressured into giving away.

I hope every child who wants to know, gets to know and I think in todays world, they can. Ditto for birthmotherrs.

Love and light!

 

[toughlovin]

Interesting discussion.... I have been away a few days. I am not sure how easy it really is to search now without a name or any real info. I dont think reputable agencies in the US just hand out information... geez given the privacy laws in the US I would be surprised if they do. I know for my kids both birthmothers signed releases at the time of their birth so my kids could get the information at the age of 21. Even so when the kids want to get that info the agency wants them to contact them, so they can get proper counseling for the process.... because reality is meeting and getting in touch with birthparents can bring up all kinds of issues for them.

OTE.... my son is also really angry with his birthmother. He feels a lot of his problems are due to genetics and she must have known the problems he would have. I think he is a bit unfair and unrealistic but I would be concerned him contacting her with anger.... doesnt really seem fair to her.

So I think given what you have shared that you are doing the right thing. Your son might find the info and go ahead and find her and what will be will be, but I think you need to stay true to yourself and what you feel is right in this situation.

TL

 

[overcome mom]

My son was adopted at 5 days old . He is in contact with his birthmother ,that relationship has been a mixed bag. I don't know if this is the right answer but I think I would tell my son that I was not going to tell him at this time because he seems to be wanting to contact her our of anger and that that is not the right time or way to start a relationship. That it would be harmful to both him and her. He could have contacted her a long time ago but he chose not to. Doing things out of angry is not going to bring positive results ever...

 

[OTE]

Thanks folks. Yes, I have told him that I am not giving it to him again at this time because of his attitude. Of course he won't accept that. He piles on the guilt.. What kind of Mom am I, etc? So according to him I am no longer his mother. Nothing you don't all know.

But I do feel a lot better knowing that you do understand. Of course, he's without funds. I never gave him more than a few bucks. But a guy can get hungry between 5:00 dinner and 6:00 breakfast. Its not like there's ever a big meal anyway. And when you bench press 150 or 200 you burn a lot more than the 1200 calories or so they provide! We'll see how long it takes for him to contact me.

 

[BusynMember]

Any adoption agency can find the records strictly by the childs adoptive parents names. Its not hard.

The people who made the closed adiptuon rules no longer run the agencies, many are dead. Its different no, a different mindset.

But OTE it doesnt sound as if your son is grounded enough rigjt now to even figure out the not so hard way of finding a birth parent. It DOES take a bit of work. I dont think you have anything to worry about. Some day, if he settles down, he will do it if he wants. Right now it seems he is more about maybe finding her for money. If he meets her and she is broke he may be very dismissive. And then maybe not.

The searching is not to definitely have a great relationship. It is often just for the person to know where he comes from. I truly dont think anyone would guarantee closed adoptions today with all this technology that will only get more open. Even international adoptees can find family and do.

My kids all have names, last addresses etc. I think it helped them not be as worried about their roots. They know we would help them search yet none have done so except Gonebpy and he came at age six. I do t think making it a big mystery is the best way to go but thats just my opinion. Its to me like hating your kids boyfriend. It only makes that boy more appealing and them more determined to marry him.

 

[OTE]

In most or all countries adoption is governed by laws. Adoption agencies are licensed by a state or country government. Irregardless of the prevailing views, unless laws change, closed means records cannot be released by anyone involved, agency and social workers included. Anyone who releases any info will lose their license, face criminal charges, etc. That includes people who were not alive at the time or were not involved in the specific adoption. The only way such records can be released is by a judge's "court" order. This is the law. It is a professional matter. There is no "mindset" that supercedes the law. I believe it misleading to suggest otherwise to a child. The idea is frankly the reason that thousands and thousands adopt abroad.

I've never heard of an agency or attorney releasing the info except my attorney. Mine did so I believe because he did not think about what he was doing. He sent me the final court order as he would send a the final court order to any other family matter client. For all I know it may have been his first and last ever adoption. It certainly would be his last if it was ever reported. In no way am I suggesting that the secrecy of a closed adoption should be violated. Nor that anyone else involved in an adoption would disclose.

 

[BusynMember]

Well, i know people who got info from agency workers. There are no country laws over independent agencies. The adoption community has banded together to help one another and do. My friend got her birthmothwrs address before the internet. She just hired an adoptee who did this for other adoptees and he had did it and the rest is history.

Adoptees who want to find bihrtparents can and will and have a community of support. I know this upsets some adoptive parents. But its the truth. For many reasons some adoptive parents dont want their kids to find their birth families which is why many adoptees do it and never tell their parents. Yes very common.

Adoption agency rules have changed a lot and if you adopted through the state, thiy wiill HELP you search. Sonic got help you letters from DCFS. Its a different world. It is ok to not want your kids to search for your own reasons and it is ok to think every person has a right to know his birth history.

But it is foolish to believe an adoptee cant find his birthparents in this day and age. Anyone who wants to can and will. Whether they tell us about it depends on our attitude but they will do what they want to do. Period. Its true.

If you really dont think its true these days ..(shrug). I wont argue about reality.

 

[OTE]

SOT
Sorry, I am referring to US laws. All adoption agencies must be licensed in the US. That includes ALL agencies, public, private, for profit, nonprofit, etc. All adoptions must go through a court. In order to do so adoption laws must be followed or the adoption order will not be signed by the judge. These laws vary by state though there is an interstate compact which sets out rules for adoptions from one state in another if both states agree to the compact. Some states do not require an agency for a private adoption which would be handled only by lawyers. But this is US law.

US social workers are licensed professionals. To suggest that they routinely ignore the legal and moral rights of birthparents, the laws of the state which issued their license, private infirmation which has been entrusted to them, their own code of conduct I find offensive. This is a profession which deserves respect in my opinion. Again, I comment only on US social workers as that is my only base of knowledge.

Frankly, I don't believe that I am foolish. You have said that all of your information is based on a handful of anecdotes. These anecdotes are about locating people whose names and identifying info are known. You are missing the point. Names and identifying information is legally private in a closed adoption. Sure, we can all do internet searches to find someone. No one can find a court sealed document on the internet!

You won't argue about reality? I will not comment on your "reality". I can only say that I am based in the US and have extensive knowledge over many years of US law and adoption practice. This includes not only the adoption of my own children but that of dozens of members of my adoption support group and the children to whom I was a foster parent as well as that of fellow foster parent families. Not to mention my own legal education and experience being relevant in this discussion.

 

[BusynMember]

Im not going to argue about reality in the U.S.

Most adoptees who search and find do not need their adoption agency. I stand by what I say and k ow of adoptees. Perhaps if you dont do TV you dont do the internet as much as many do. For some reason you want to believe your son can not find his birth mom. But its not true. And think of this.

50 per cent of all children in psychiatric offices are adopted. Look it up. 50 perncet of all inmates were in foster care at one time. Look it up. Searching aside, which is not hard these days and has tons of support groups to help succeed, why would a parent not want their child to be able to know about his past and ancestry? It causes problems to be seperated from a birth family, even when, like all here, we were wonderful parents. Do I think adoption was an issue with my kids? With Princess, yes. i think it is unwise not to let adopted children have their birth info. These decisions change lives forever and the adoption is done without our children's consent and often the birthmother from back twenty years ago were forced to give up the child and suffer to know what happened to their baby. Yes, we share the child with that other mother. We raised them and to me that is the best part, the greatest gift from God,nothing else more precious. But another woman, s birth mother, held our beloved child in her womb for nine months and I think most adopted people want to know that woman, even if it doesnt end up close, even if it is just for a day to see a familiar face. If you adopt, there is another family in the minds of our children and abandoned feelings and not knowing is very difficult for many adoptees. I knew this going into adoption. So all adoptions were openly discussed. Jumper even has pictures. We were with her birthmother in the hospital. Through the years I sent her texts and oictures of Jumper. Neither has initiated contact yet but I am sure they will. Again probably after we are gone as Jumper is very close to us and may think meeting her would hurt us.

OTE, I respect you too much to take this discussion any further and am ending my part of it now. I will not return to the thread. I hope your kids do not decide to search because it will hurt you. And I dont want that. But if they want to search, it is not hard to find. You dont need adoption agencies, although often they help. But they are not necessary. Most adults find other ways to search.

I am not going to continue reading or posting on this particular thread. But I hope you have a good outcome, the outcome that is best for all of you, yourself and your beloved boys.

God Bless from Wisconsin, America. Yes, I live in the U.S.

Have a great night. I am calling it a day on this discussion.

 

[toughlovin]

Well I agree with both of you.... I think most agencies are governed by laws and would not just give out information.... that being said I think many adoptees who search find ways to find their birthparents and in this day and age there is a lot more support for doing so.

I have been happy that with my kids the birthmothers signed releases at the time of their birth so a “search” would not be difficult. I agree that the fact that it is not as much of a mystery, and we met both birth mothers and could talk about them to our kids, and they know that when they are ready they can find them makes a world of difference in the whole issue. There is not nearly as much angst around the issue as their used to be. Plus my kids both know we would fully support them finding and meeting their birthmothers. I have no issue at all with that and have been really clear on that with my kids.

 

[Copabanana]

Anyone who releases any info will lose their license, face criminal charges, etc.

This could and should happen. But does it?

i know people who got info from agency workers.

I know I did. I knew my son's birth parents names, their psychiatric and drug histories, prior to adopting them. The social worker was cavalier in her attitudes about most everything and as soon as I had custody of my child I backed away from her and the agency. Because I knew I was not safe and my child was not, either, with somebody as careless as this.

That there are laws governing conduct does not mean they are respected. But they should be.

My child's birth parents deserved their privacy. It was given to them by the law. No other person has a right or should have the right to contravene the laws guaranteed another person. Not mine. Not yours. When that happens, it is wrong.

There is no need to know that trumps the right to confidentiality and privacy unless this need to know, itself, is legally mandated. For example the need to break confidentiality with knowledge of child abuse, or risk of suicide. But these exemptions are themselves codified legally and ethically, for the professions.

 

[BusynMember]

Copa I will only answer you becsuse I respect you so much and have known you for so long. These are my own feelings. I do respect yours even where we disagree.

I put my children's well being above the birthparents. Why shouldnt I? Although i strongly believe most birthparents want to know what happened to their child. They are people too and want to know that their baby is okay, that their choice was a good one. And yes it is their baby as well as ours. In a different way but still we share a child.

My adult kids can make their own decisions about their adoptive past. I think it is their right. What if we didnt know who gave birth to us?

Today almost all adoptions in the U.S. require contact. Birthmothers demand and get it. I read this yesterday online. You can look it up. Sadly I dont know how to copy abd past on a phone.

Nobody has lost a license due to an employee letting info slip. And bad, inhumane, unpopular laws are broken a lot with lits of secret support. There should be no laws depriving people of their identities and many countriies dont allow secrecy. I am sure we will follow. Oregon already allows all adoptees their original birth certificates. This will continue. No horror stories have come of Oregons law.

Like nobody can stop pot use or could stop alcohol use, nobody can or will stop adoptees from finding their birth parents. Most people support it, just as most support pot use. Copa, when I adopted Princess ftom Korea the birthmother and birthfathers names, story and even a physical description were included. I am not sure your sons adoption worker was so different from most. Our kids NEED at least their medical histories including mental illness and drug use. And I think they deserve names but the medical history must be known. What if you or me had no medical history? How can we get good medicalcare if we know nothing? What about the children we have?

For Goneboy, birthmothers ADDRESS was on the papers. I couldnt believe it was really her address at first. When he became obsessed with the idea that his birthmother died I wrote to her and she wrote back from China eager to meet him and us. We did not have the money to travel there but sent pictures as did she. His leaving us had nothing to do with her. He knew he could have had a relationship with both of us. He did fly to meet her and his birth siblings. I am glad his circle of life is complete. I am totally sincere. He needed to know, maybe more than the others.

Sonic was sent a letter by Post Adoption Services from the State of Illinois offering to search for him if he wanted this assistance. Sonic had been adopted out of foster care so he was a state adoption. I kid you not. I got the letter myself because I was his guardian then. Sonic wasnt interested but he has birthmothers name. I doubt he will ever search.

We knew Jumpers birthmother. We did not use an agency but a lawyer. But we found Jumpers birthmother ourselves THENpicked a lawyer to do the details. Jumper has pictures of both sides of her birth family and knows names and towns where they live. In spite of this, Jumper and I have a dream mother/daughter relationship. We could not be any closer. Same with her and her dad. Verrrry close. Information does not sever a living bond.

My adopted kids did very well for adopted kids. Adopted kids tend to stumble more. The commonality is adoption. For us we had no lingering drug addicts,inmates, antisocial behavior etc. All very close to us, except Goneboy and he came at six. Lots of trust between us with tje others. I am positive even if they search one day, maybe after we pass, they will hold us in their hearts with love as their parents. I believe often the secrecy in some homes of the adoptee causes them to go off the rails.

I believe every human has a right to know his genetic background and am happy about the trends. What if we didnt know who looked like us, our background, why we can sing or dance well, why our child was born with a disorder or with red hair? We would want to know too.

Copa, your son needed to know what he knows. You did great. Maybe he will turn it around. He is still young. Does he have any birth family pictures? He must have birth family still alive. Maybe knowing/seeing would help him pull together. Just a thought. No response expected.

G-d bless.

Love and light!

 

[Copabanana]

Swot. I read only part of your post and will go back and read the rest. But want to say this. I agree.

The county from which I adopted my son withheld from me that his birth parents were dying of aids. Imagine that. I was terrified for him and for me.

After I brought him home we went to a hospital to pick up his medical records. There I was in a loading zone, having run in and out. He, in the back seat. Only to glance at the papers and see both parents had ARC.

Even the social worker did not disclose that. He had not even been tested. Imagine.

I agree that people break unjust laws. And in that way laws change. It is a form of dissent. It is not to say that it is right to break laws.

Because it is quite another thing to say or imply laws do not matter or need not be respected. There are always both sides to an issue. Not just my side or your side. Two sides.

Sometimes we are better served by trying to understand the other side. In that way we grow in compassion, empathy, wisdom, and as people.

 

[Copabanana]

I have pictures, information and names. He knows. He refuses engagement. He not only cannot accept this family yet, he hates the idea of his birth parents. He feels he was damaged by them. Which is true. He as yet feels no compassion for them nor for himself.

If my son wanted to search for his family, now, siblings, I would have no problem. Our relationship is independent of any other. It stands alone.

 

[Copabanana]

Swot. I am really distressed by your last post and by this thread in general. On my cell phone I want to say a few words to begin to say why.

I want to preface my words by what is most important to me. I have grown to care about you greatly, swot. And I am deeply grateful for your caring for me and my son. You have never ever wavered in your commitment to him. And to support me to be the best parent I can be. Furthermore, you have always been a voice in kindness to help me lay off of me, to not judge myself with such severity. And have urged me to forgive myself. I will always be grateful to you. And if I should leave this board, I will remember it synonymous with you, swot.

But this is my distress. You state you are only answering me because you respect me and have known me so long. What I wrote was only what I felt to be true. I have supported you on this thread. Not 100 percent. But why are we taking sides?

Every single person here is worthy of respect and deserves respect. Not just those we know and have earned it. Everybody. Especially people we do not know. Who may trigger us. And with whom we disagree. Because it is from these people we will learn most. Not just about their beliefs and prejudices, but about ourselves.

Honestly. I do not know why ote and you have dug in so deeply. When there is so much agreement, if we only look for it. And I am sorry I got involved. Because each of you seems to be tarring me with the same brush. But I would guess that each of you has some of the same strengths and the same growing edge.

There is nobody alive who cannot teach us something.

Please listen to them. As you would want that we listen to you. I say that to you, to me, to everybody.

Really. If this forum is going to be war, I do not want to participate.

 

[BusynMember]

Cipa, I did not mean to return to this thread but when I saw you had responded I wanted to see your view. See, I respect you a lot and I couldnt not read your opinion. I support whatever you do and love J., as I do so many here who I feel i know. I also get why he is upset with his birth family and does not want to pursue any contact, but you gave him pictures and a choice. That is all any parent can do. I think every parent should make it easy to search

Adopting is not the easy way to raise a chid. It is an extra issue. All kids are challenging, even the easiest. Adopted or not. And adoptive parents revere our children as if we had given birth to them. I personally correct anyone who asks me if I have kids of "your own." I am quick to say "Of course. They are all my own." They are my heart as your son is your heart. He is or his actions/words would not hurt but the love remains...by you...by him. By all adoptive parents. Our kids are in our open hearts

This thread went on because OTE and I both needed to talk about our own very different points of view. I am so sorry if it distressed you.

This time I truly will not reengage about it.

I do think most people, both adopted and not, think people have a right to know their heritage and what you said about ignoring laws is true...it changes them. Now you know I dont like pot but I also dont feel anyone should be locked up for smoking it, like most of America does not want pot smokers in jail. I remember being a teen when even being with pot smokers was a felony that could ruin ones life! I do know that like alcohol some like me could not smoke pot and be ok. But like alcohol we cant stop its use because some react badly to it and I hate throwing people in jail over it and am glad we no longer do.

My view on the right to know who your birth family is if you choose to is very strong and certain and it seems that this right is acknowledged by most. Thats why there are so many out there to help adoptees search. Some agencies even have spies that help. It is not hard to find birth relatives anymore. And most of America is glad. I read 75 per cent. Again it can be looked up. I dont k ow how to copy and paste on here or I would have done do with many articles. But....i am so techie challenged!

Love and light. There is still hope for J. I know it and pray for him. He is not a bad person and that means there is definitely hope. I am glad you Copa are doing many things YOU love to do. It inspires me! Thanks!

 

[Copabanana]

Thank you for explaining swot. The context helps.

 

[Smithmom]

Dear potential birthmother:

Please do not take anything you read here as fact. In fact, do not take anything you read in "chat rooms" as fact. This is all anonymous. No one knows if any of this is true. You must find out the law in your area. If you decide that you want to make a plan for your child involving adoption investigate agencies in your area. You will find an agency that will be comfortable with whatever level of privacy you feel that you need. Mind you, I'm referring to US law. In the US agencies, doctors, lawyers, social workers are all subject to laws and licenses. It is in your interest to make sure that everyone you deal with is properly licensed. Your state can confirm licenses. These licenses ensure that your wishes will be respected. That is, if the state you are in allows the degree of open or closed adoption you choose. For example, not all states allow open adoption to be legal. But this us why you need your own attorney. So all options and the long term effects of those options can be explained to you.

I wish you a healthy baby and a lifetime of peace with whatever decision you make.