Need to pull back; feel done.

[WiseChoices]

I sent DC2 a TedTalk about research with micronutrients for depression and anxiety. since her depression was kicked off by starvation due to an E.D. , I thought this was valid and I even would have been willing to purchase minerals etc if they can augment her medication protocol. Well, I was rebuffed on all points the speaker made and then was told that she "needed to set a boundary that what she discusses with her psychiatrist is private" (Her psychiatrist is also a nutritionist and so I asked whether psychiatric had ever mentioned this research).

This angered me. I can hear that she doesn't want the information, but to tell me she needs to set a boundary seemed like overkill. I told her that while I pay for her psychiatric care and medication I will absolutely ask questions and give an opinion if I see fit to do so. And that if she did not want information shared to just tell me that. She has responded back on Snapchat and I have not opened it because I don't even want to know what else she will hurl my way.

I know this is more of her pulling away and she is just not elegant about it or practiced with it. I know she is responding from her current level of consciousness. I know, as Copa had explained, that I need to be able to bear this , so DC2 can move herself towards adulthood. And it still hurts. I hurt that I am being made the enemy and that I am being told her care is none of my business - I am her Mom! Not in a million years would I speak to my Mother this way. When I am there (currently traveling), she does tell me what psychiatric says and prescribes just as a matter of general conversation.

So I reread Copa's responses to me in older Posts : "Many of us were not able to separate psychologically from our own mothers. I was one of these women. Whether this is because our mothers were dependent upon us; or competitive, or jealous, it's different for all of us. But when our children are growing up and pull away, either in a normal way or a dysfunctional way, these old wounds are triggered. It's our challenge to deal with them through therapy, groups, introspection, etc. We can't heal by way of expecting our children to heal us or to take away our pain. Even though it feels like they are the ones that have created this hurt. They didn't. They just triggered it."

It struck me tonight reading this because I have been around my Mother for the last (almost) month. And I don't always feel psychologically separated from her. She seems emotionally distant, always has, to a certain extent that is hard for me to explain. And I think I try to work at getting that closeness. I call her every Sunday. I tell her a lot .And I do think those wounds get triggered when my kids assert autonomy and separateness. It is not fair of me to want healing through their closeness to me and I have created the same scenario with my kids as I have with my Mom: I pursue them and I work for the relationship. And I need to stop .

 

[BusynMember1]

Let's face it. Would any of us have spoken to our parents the way our kids do? Would this not trigger anyone? The kids may not have caused old wounds, but, like you said, they trigger them. Big time. If we have self esteem problems, our own kids belittling us would play on this badly, wouldn't it?

I don't like the way this generation has no problem belittling their parents. It seems to be socially acceptable, which was not the case when I was younger.

In our family there were many kids and we all helped out and had a part and I felt loved, but sometimes like certain sisters or brothers were loved more. But I never would have acted out on my parents when I felt insecure. I wanted to be a part of the whole. I thought all kids did.

So it shocked me that Kay didn't want to have a part in the family and was so hateful to the rest of us. It used to make my head hurt to think about it. I don't understand how our kids can know how much they hurt us and still hurt us. I don't understand how so many don't want a close family. It was all I wanted...to be close to my parents and siblings. I would have done nothing to destroy being a loved part of my family. Kay and many other millennials do not seem to care about family.

But I am adjusting. I would not give any advice to Kay. I used to. A lot. I sent her articles and tried to speak to her calmly, mother to daughter. She would then tell me rudely to leave her alone and called me a helicopter mom more than once. Or that I'm not really her mother. I now keep my opinions to myself. Kay doesn't respect the role of a mother. While she was sassing us, we were paying all her bills.

Ironically my own mother would kindly suggest to me to not to give Kay so much, that people respect things that they work for. I was respectful to my mother, of course, but I didn't listen to her smart advice.

Wise, you are a good mother with a lot of insight and I believe you are also fighting your own issues with your own mother. You are smart and will figure out what to do for your situation. Your daughter is part of the way things are today. We carried our pain inside and continued to be respectful. Not today. Many grown kids act as if we never had pain and that their own pain is the worst ever and all our fault. And frankly most of us give them more, including attention, than we ever got from our parents. I really don't think this is a good trend. They get so much love, attention, and material things that they become entitled and don't appreciate even the love! They turn that on us.

Wise, I send you prayers and hugs. Trust me when I say I know how you feel and am very sorry. I also trust your ability to work it out. Keep us posted.

 

[susiestar]

I cannot speak about the psychological points here, but I can tell you a boundary that I set for my kids years ago. If they live with me and/or I pay their medical bills, they WILL have me on their HIPAA forms and I WILL speak to their doctors or send information to their doctors as I see fit. Does not matter what age they are. It is one of the costs of living at home and of having me get them to appointments and help wtih medical bills.

None of my kids fuss about this because it has been a stated rule since before they were teens. I don't generally poke into their doctor appointments unless there is some big issue going on. But I can if I see a need. And they know that I will. You might consider making this a condition of helping her if you help with these things. Then send info to the doctor instead of to your daughter. Given all you are dealing with in regard to her health, it seems reasonable to ask her nutritionist psychiatrist if this is reputable research that would help her or not.

 

[Copabanana]

I hurt that I am being made the enemy and that I am being told her care is none of my business

I don't mean to trivialize this. How could I? It could be, and was at one time, me.

But this is so transparent, if you are not the one whose toes are stepped on. It's also insolent. You go out of your way to support her in every way, to understand her, and she sets a boundary?

Let her set a boundary on all of your support: financial, emotional, social, transportation, etc.

It's so, so immature. Which is exactly the point.

This is functional on her part. She is not seeking to get a maturity award. She's seeking to mature. She's doing her very best to put into place autonomy and independence. and separation.

Do you remember having to learn something new that was technically difficult? And you had to put every other thing on hold as you went through the steps, as you did them, before they became automatic and rote? (Think about a small child that is concentrating on tying shoes or something like that. And how they sometimes are so focused, they will stick out their tongue as they concentrate.) I can barely breathe if I have to do something that requires concentration and manual dexterity, at the same time. This is your daughter right now.

Except instead of having to hold her breath while she executes some move or routine that she does not yet know, or have down pat....she is requiring that you NOT do something. She is requiring that YOU not move. So that she can mature.

Why? Because she has you intertwined in her head. And that's the point. She needs to get you to the periphery. In order that the adult her can be front and center.

Support her to do this! You can do it! You are already off to such a great start....with the self-awareness that you are repeating a pattern with your own mother:

She seems emotionally distant, always has, to a certain extent

And I think I try to work at getting that closeness.

Your daughter is not your mother. You don't have to work to get that closeness. It's already there. It will always be there. But that's contingent, I believe, on your supporting her to grow up.

All of this that she is doing is developmentally appropriate. This is not about rejection. This is not about pushing you away. This is not about good manners. This is not about reciprocity. She needs to be an intact, separate woman. She's trying.

Do you want her to grow up? To be a separate person from you? To function independently? Ask yourself and answer honestly. Then ask yourself, if your actions and your communications and your responses to her, each of them, actually supports her functioning independently as a mature woman. Or, could they be reactive, repetitive and unconscious ways you replicate your relationship with your mother? (Believe me you're not alone here. You are actually at the head of the line, because of your honesty and integrity.) Could you do a moral inventory?

I have created the same scenario with my kids as I have with my Mom: I pursue them and I work for the relationship.

You can change. What about putting you in the center of your life? In addition to helping your kids (a lot), you do a lot for your healing. What if you are already healed? (I am not commenting here about your recovery.) What if all of what you do for your daughter you begin to do for you?

Don't you think this would be a powerful message to her, about her own potential? To be whole. Maybe everything you need is already there. Maybe that's the case for me, too.

PS I was waking up each morning either depressed or anxious, or both, which would fade after I got up. I found that with taking magnesium, I did not wake up with these feelings. I did a bit of research and it seems that magnesium helps alleviate depression and anxiety.

 

[WiseChoices]

This is what she sent back to me today:

"Please don't share info with me because it's not helpful in the slightest. It's frustrating & I find it tiresome. We have very different opinions about mental illnesses, and seeing as we're talking about MY mental health, your opinion comes second to my opinion or my Psychiatrist's. You didn't study this stuff in college, and therefore are not a licensed professional. I am not trying to upset you, but I have to make it clear that this is what I have to do for myself in order to stay sane. And to keep my personal issues separate.And you saying that your entitled to discussing this with me because your paying for my treatment is really unfair and I see it as a cop-out. All I want is a little discretion and respect regarding my private issues."

 

[WiseChoices]

All I wrote back was "I am sorry to have upset you with my sharing information. I won't do that again .I hope you have hood day (heart). "

 

[BusynMember1]

Wise, she really sounds as if she is not trying to upset you. She is much kinder than Kay would ever have been. I can feel her love for you in her words. And respect. In her way, she is just trying to explain. Kay would have just texted me cussing and hate. Your daughter thought out her words. She sounds intelligent.

I do think it is sad she won't discuss things with you while you pay. I get that. And you and I would have shared with our mothers.

But it is a different day and a more independent, selfish time and our kids are influenced by their peers. I think your answer to your daughter was loving and mindful.

I believe your daughter loves you more than you know. I see correspondence here from some grown kids, my own included, that make me tear up. I don't see that your daughter wants to hurt you. That is something to hang onto.

I have Al Anon tonight (Nar Anon is Thursday) and I will include you and your daughter in my prayers that I say to myself after group. This is confusing for all of us, I think. Sending hugs and love.

 

[WiseChoices]

Busy, thank you so much for that! I appreciate your prayers and your kindness and your help to me. I will travel back to the US tomorrow and and have Al-Anon Monday and Tuesday. I can't wait! I will keep you and your family in my prayers as well ! May God Bless You Always!

 

[WiseChoices]

Thank you to everyone who responded to my post. Your help, your care, your love are so very deeply appreciated. Reading all the responses was meaningful and supportive. You are all a life line . Blessing to you all!

 

[Blindsided]

Let's face it. Would any of us have spoken to our parents the way our kids do? Would this not trigger anyone? The kids may not have caused old wounds, but, like you said, they trigger them. Big time. If we have self esteem problems, our own kids belittling us would play on this badly, wouldn't it?

I don't like the way this generation has no problem belittling their parents. It seems to be socially acceptable, which was not the case when I was younger.

In our family there were many kids and we all helped out and had a part and I felt loved, but sometimes like certain sisters or brothers were loved more. But I never would have acted out on my parents when I felt insecure. I wanted to be a part of the whole. I thought all kids did.

So it shocked me that Kay didn't want to have a part in the family and was so hateful to the rest of us. It used to make my head hurt to think about it. I don't understand how our kids can know how much they hurt us and still hurt us. I don't understand how so many don't want a close family. It was all I wanted...to be close to my parents and siblings. I would have done nothing to destroy being a loved part of my family. Kay and many other millennials do not seem to care about family.

But I am adjusting. I would not give any advice to Kay. I used to. A lot. I sent her articles and tried to speak to her calmly, mother to daughter. She would then tell me rudely to leave her alone and called me a helicopter mom more than once. Or that I'm not really her mother. I now keep my opinions to myself. Kay doesn't respect the role of a mother. While she was sassing us, we were paying all her bills.

Ironically my own mother would kindly suggest to me to not to give Kay so much, that people respect things that they work for. I was respectful to my mother, of course, but I didn't listen to her smart advice.

Wise, you are a good mother with a lot of insight and I believe you are also fighting your own issues with your own mother. You are smart and will figure out what to do for your situation. Your daughter is part of the way things are today. We carried our pain inside and continued to be respectful. Not today. Many grown kids act as if we never had pain and that their own pain is the worst ever and all our fault. And frankly most of us give them more, including attention, than we ever got from our parents. I really don't think this is a good trend. They get so much love, attention, and material things that they become entitled and don't appreciate even the love! They turn that on us.

Wise, I send you prayers and hugs. Trust me when I say I know how you feel and am very sorry. I also trust your ability to work it out. Keep us posted.

Same here. Couldnt agree more, Busy.

 

[Blindsided]

Busy, thank you so much for that! I appreciate your prayers and your kindness and your help to me. I will travel back to the US tomorrow and and have Al-Anon Monday and Tuesday. I can't wait! I will keep you and your family in my prayers as well ! May God Bless You Always!

I totally agree with Busy.

Sure hope you were able to get respite and peace on your trip.

Prayers for all.

In healing

 

[Blindsided]

This is what she sent back to me today:

"Please don't share info with me because it's not helpful in the slightest. It's frustrating & I find it tiresome. We have very different opinions about mental illnesses, and seeing as we're talking about MY mental health, your opinion comes second to my opinion or my Psychiatrist's. You didn't study this stuff in college, and therefore are not a licensed professional. I am not trying to upset you, but I have to make it clear that this is what I have to do for myself in order to stay sane. And to keep my personal issues separate.And you saying that your entitled to discussing this with me because your paying for my treatment is really unfair and I see it as a cop-out. All I want is a little discretion and respect regarding my private issues."

Wow. There are many perspectives here and I can relate to all of them.

Now, as I read this, and after reading Copa's response, it does sound like your Difficult Child is testing the waters for autonomy.

Side note: magnesium is also a good muscle relaxer. It is not unreasonable to have suggested it, but it sounds like she needs to hear that from her psychiatrist. The pearl is that she has a rapport, which is a key element.

In my quest to understand how things could go so haywire with my daughter, I have found it doesnt matter, I cant change it. So, I let go and focus on what I can do.

Copa is right. I am learning I need to be better at self-care, after all, that's what we want our children to do.

Love and light