New here...

[WearyinCanada]

I found this forum today, and reading through the threads feels like reading my own story....which is SO long that I dont even know where I would begin...I get frustrated and angry even thinking about trying to "explain" the situation with my 25 year old son to someone so that they actually UNDERSTAND without trying to offer me well meaning suggestions.

In some time, I might be able to type it out, but for now just wanted to say that finding you all makes me feel less crazy (if that makes sense?)

Coles Notes:

-25 year old son (oldest of 4)
-Lives across the country
-Early stages of homeless (couch surfing, begging for money..)
-Fired from every job he's ever had, longest held was 6 months (4 years ago), most are 2 weeks max
-verbally abusive, blames me for everything ie. How he was "raised"
-2 extended hospital stays (3 years and 1 year ago)
-6 month inpatient treatment (1 year ago)

On and on and on.....

 

[BusynMember]

Hi. Im watching a so-so football game and checked here so thought I would welcome you to the forum. I am sorry you have to be here but the posters here do understand.

You may add a few details to help us. Drugs? Trouble in childhood/school/learning disabilities/diagnosed mental illness? Refuses to get help? Refuses to apply for SSI? Any other issues....adoption, bad divorce, saw abuse etc.

Why does he get fired from jobs and how does he get any money?

What have you tried?

Well, going back to the football game. Weekends can be slower but I am sure you will other responses. It helps to tell a little of your story. You dont have to put it all down. The stories tend to be similar.

Find something to do tonight that you enjoy. Take care of yourself!

 

[Copabanana]

Welcome.

Do you have support?

In addition to swots questions:

Reasons for son's hospitalizations? Suicide attempts/history of self-harm?

Acting out? Arrests?

What about how he was raised does he feel caused him harm?

Is he self-supporting?

Has he had any goals? Any relationships, strong friendships?

Any chronic illness, history of brain injury?

I know how hard this is. I have a 29 year old mentally ill, homeless son who has been rejecting of me. It broke my heart. I felt responsible to either fix him or to get him to fix himself.

What I have realized after 3.5 years here is that he will change when and if he wants. That the only change I control is over me and my own life. It took me all of that time to accept that I am the center of my own life, as he is the center of his own.

My response to you is that it sounds like so far he is safe, and that he keeps seeking work is a good thing. He is not homeless yet. He is self sufficient in his manner. I would say, let him be angry and if he wants to blame you, try not to take it seriously or personally. Although I know how painful it is.

What's it to you? Keep your distance if it is hurtful. Don't listen to him rant or disrespect you. Hang up the phone. Limit when you accept his calls.

Find all kinds of support and interests. Make your life into a dream. This will give him space to work out what he needs to independent of you.

We have a role in their lives but not as their whipping boy and not to do for them things they must do themselves.

I am glad you found us. Keep posting. On others threads too. That is what changes us. We change as we post.

 

[WearyinCanada]

Also watching football Thank you for the welcome.

Let's see...yes, history of drug abuse, but no hard drugs currently (that I am aware of!) but does smoke pot. No drugs or even smoking in the home.

No adoption, per day, but I had him when I was 18 and he has had 2 long term father figures in his life (my exhusband...from ages 3-now, who is father of his two brothers..very amicable split)...and my husband from age 9-now, who is his sister's father...

No history of abuse. Huge history of entitlement (not sure where it came from) but not wanting to work for anything...

Graduated high school with honors, very intelligent...but never worked to his potential...we only ever had 3 rules at home:

1) do your best in school (whatever that may be for you)
2) keep your room clean
3) get a job when you turn 16, or money stops for "wants"

Things took a sour turn for us mostly around 15-16 when he didnt want to work, take part etc...was lying, stealing, etc...looking back I can recognize it as depression/anxiety...but at the time 10 years ago, seemed like "lazy teenager"...

Got accepted to university, and received student loans...needed to get a job to help pay for tuition, refused, and dropped out after 3 months.

Moved out west for work after that, which is where the drug issues started in earnest (I suspect now that there was pot before...but we were not aware)...he kept this seasonal job for 6 months, and moved back home broke....stayed with us until the next season began which started the cycle of new job after new job...

It was that fall that he experienced an episode of psychosis from drug use, and was admitted to hospital with severe paranoia, depression, delusions etc....after 3 weeks, advocated a panel for release (against ours and psychiatrist's recommendation) and came home for 4 months...after those 4 months, he got a place to live, and a job....which lasted 4 weeks. He was placed in the hospital again because he had nowhere else to go (our home is no longer an option), and after 2 months inpatient was placed in an intensive 6 month offsite program, where he did "very well"....but I personally had very little faith that things would change. He lasted one month on his own afterwards...wouldnt take medication, was approved for EI, and subsidized housing, but decided to move back out west AGAIN. Within 1 month, he had met a girl, and she became pregnant (something they chose on purpose!).

Baby is now 6 months old, they have no relationship and he is ordered to pay child support...all while being unable to keep a job.

My mother is a huge enabler, especially after my father passed 3 years ago...he is very manipulative and emotionally cruel to both her and I...playing on any guilt he can think of.

So much left out...but that's where we are at right now.

 

[elizabrary]

Glad you found us. It is so helpful to find people who understand. When I have tried to talk to others who have never experienced having a troubled adult child they were dismissive or told me I should just tell my daughter whatever genius thing they thought of. Like I hadn't said and/or screamed every single thing they mentioned. My daughter has been all kinds of trouble, got straightened out for awhile but recently relapsed. I had to jump back on here to get my objectivity back in place and keep up with not enabling my daughter. Read up on enabling if you're not familiar with it. My working definition is doing something for an adult that they are capable of doing for themselves. I'm pretty good about maintaining boundaries, but that was hard for me to learn. If you don't have strong boundaries in place I encourage you to find the many posts on here about them and start working on them. Be aware that when you start putting boundaries in place your troubled adult child will likely up the ante and do all kinds of crazy things but you have stay firm. It's wildly frustrating, hard, demoralizing and stress inducing. But you can get to a place where you can manage your anxiety about your son and use most of your energy to focus on you and improving your life and health. Glad you're here. Sending peace your way.

 

[WearyinCanada]

Thank you Copacabana

Yes, I have a very patient and supportive husband, who is not his father...which I think makes it easier for him to disconnect and only be support for me.

No arrests. Lots of allusions and threats of suicide, but no attempts. In speaking with his doctors during each stay, none believed he was truly suicidal.

No accidents or injuries....his biological father is INCREDIBLY similar to him...history of drug use, verbally abusive, etc....but was never is his life until they connected over the last couple of years.

He has a very distorted view of how he was raised, although it is clearly his reality. He feels that he was neglected and treated differently than his younger siblings, that I abandoned him and he was left to fend for himself when my husband and I started dating 17 years ago....all of these things come up only when I refuse to give money or fix situations. When I give advice, he never takes it...when I dont give advice, I "dont care".

He is living off his last paycheque, I believe down to the last few dollars....but refuses to tell me where he is. Will not seek help from a shelter or other resources.

 

[WearyinCanada]

Thank you Eliza

I chose to set boundaries several years ago, primarily for there being 3 other children in the home (now 19, 18 and 10), financial reasons, and my own mental health...and you are correct....that is when I started hearing about his horrible childhood, how evil I was, etc etc. I am not perfect, and have given help for groceries or a random night in hostel when needed....he is on the opposite side of the country, so we are only in co tact via social media and it is very hard to tell when is telling the truth....his most recent excuse for being fired is that he was sick, could not get up for work and thinks he has cancer.....he went so far as to tell me he was waiting on biopsy results...which turned out to be a lie.

Literally nothing I have done in the last 7 years has made any difference.

 

[Copabanana]

You cannot save another person, especially a beloved adult child. That person must save themselves. They do they by locating their power and responsibility in themselves, not in us.

The changing you will find is in yourself. It is not that we don't care. It is that we begin to locate our own power center in us. I wake up at 3am in terror and agony most nights. I feel my son's cold. That is my most vulnerable time. But by the time I get up I am living for me.

My son uses pot too. Nothing I could do or say stopped him.

I am going to say something hard. He will live as he lives. You can love him. Be there to the extent he permits it and you can tolerate it. But how can you change him? He will deal with his life as he chooses.

There are real pluses: he works, he has girlfriends, he has responsibilities (a baby!). No arrests. No suicide attempts. He is not sick. He lives far away, he is self-sufficient. And he is not homeless!!!

What he does to solve his problems will teach him. He will learn.

But you need to find a way to center yourself in you, and not die from the worry and agony and guilt. Nothing is your fault. This is what they do. Just turn the channel. Don't listen.

 

[BusynMember]

The psychotic episode sounds like meth. Not saying that its impossible for pot to cause that but never heard of it.

I am glad you are standing strong!!! Good for you!

I love football, but am not really into these teams. Looking forward to a day of better football tomorrow! Do keep taking care of yourself.

 

[Copabanana]

Pot can cause psychosis. Google it: Cannabis -induced psychosis.

Don't let him verbally abuse you!

Why not invite your mom to go with you to an alanon or coda meeting, and go to lunch afterwards at a good restaurant?

 

[Tired out]

HI. I am glad your found us for support, sad you needed to find us. It is nice to know you aren't alone and your "kid' isn't the only one like this. Then you start to get to know the other people here and you wish yours was the only one so the rest of your new found group weren't going through this horrible mess.
There are a lot of studies on pot and its effects. It can especially cause a lot of problems for people who have ever had a traumatic brain injury. Which could have been as "minor" as a concussion- brains have scars then the pot messes with the dopamine.
I hope you find help here. it does help to know you aren't alone.

 

[SeekingStrength]

Hi Weary,

This forum will be valuable to you; I found it several years ago and it was definitely a Godsend. Stay close. The posters have been where you are and have much wisdom to share.

My son was in his thirties when I finally figured out I was an enabler and needed help to stop the madness and futility of my "help". Googled "how to stop enabling an adult son" and found this forum---best thing that could have happened.

Post as often as you have anything to say. It helped me tremendously. Feel our love and support. As they sometimes say on here, "We will circle our wagons around you.".

Life gets better again as you grow stronger.

SS

 

[WearyinCanada]

[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 744439, member:



There are real pluses: he works, he has girlfriends, he has responsibilities (a baby!). No arrests. No suicide attempts. He is not sick. He lives far away, he is self-sufficient. And he is not homeless!!!
[/QUOTE]

He isn't working, was fired most recently last week. He doesn't have a girlfriend, and will run out of money (for whatever hostel he is in) in the next day or so...baby is not in his life, other than the court ordered child support he is supposed to pay

 

[Copabanana]

Let me be more specific. He has had girlfriends. He has had jobs (as recently as last week.) He is right now under a roof. He has a baby for whom he is responsible. Right now he has money.

This is glass half full/half empty.

You do not know how he will solve these challenges, but solve them he will.

You are responsible for dealing with yourself. Not him. Dealing with how you think. And what you think. Your self talk matters. You are our concern here. Not him.

Trust me. Please. If you can begin to let him deal with himself, this will change.

PS. Are you 100 percent sure you know the truth about his circumstances? He feeds all of it to you. Even if it's all true, who can solve this you or him?

PSS let me tell you how to quote. It's hard to explain cause I'm on a cell. Highlight text in blue. Push quote. In your text box below you will see a button that says something like quote these messages. Click that. Make sure you don't mess with the programming language (slashes, parens and numbers.)

 

[BusynMember]

I didnt know pot can cause psychosis but it makes sense since pot can and does trigger schizophrenia in vulnerable people. Also there are so many types of pot now! Who knows whats in it?

I hate pot. Tried it and no psychosis but it made me paranoid.

I agree to let your son deal with his problems. Or not. There is nothing you can do. I also feel we need to take care of ourselves. We are the only person we can change. It doesnt help our kids if we suffer. I suggest a therapist or Al Anon to learn how to take care of YOU. Believe it or not, it takes time. It is an art! But a good one to know!

 

[WearyinCanada]

Oh...I guarantee i dont know everything about his circumstances. In fact, i generally assume he is lying to me...based on the past, and provable lies.

I harbour so much anger towards him....for wasted opportunities, for taking advantage of every family member who has ever believed he would pay back money, for blaming me for all of his problems, for how he treats my mother. There is SO much work for him to do for me to even believe things are changing...I have lots of hope but no faith in him I feel guilty for saying that.

I share nothing about our lives with him, as it always gets thrown back in my face...if I have things or spend money, it should be on him...I'm certain he feels this way.

I was not supportive of him and his 18 yr old girlfriend (of a couple months) choosing to get pregnant....not without a job, or means of supporting themselves. She moved back in with her parents and they broke up. He holds this against me, and BUT FOR ME, would have his son in his life....I know this is not true.

I have him constantly on my mind...when I eat (is he hungry)...when I turn up the heat (is he cold)...when I buy Christmas presents (how can I be happy?)....I KNOW things are only going to get worse. He feels that the answer to all of his problems is me....if I would change, he would change ...i dont understand this.

 

[BusynMember]

Do you mean he thinks you should change as in support him monetarily, let him live rent free in your home, put no expectations of adulthood on him, apologize profusely for things you didnt do etc?

That is the kind of ridiculous change our failure to thrive adult kids want from us. It would be insane of us to do it.

Let me guess. Your son isnt in his son's life because of his own lack of willingness to live close by and see him? Family law doesnt forbid fathers from seeing their kids. Your son has not been arrested. Has he been to family court? Certainly a Judge didnt order that he have no visitation. They dont do that. And its not up to Mom if Dad can see his kid....and when. So his lack of contact has to be his fault in some way. You could not have had a thing to do about it. Only a Judge controls that.

In the back of his mind, he must know his life is his fault.

To feel and cope better, you should really check out therapy.

 

[Copabanana]

I agree with him. You do need to change...the channel. We sometimes call it here the adult child disaster channel. The key is to recognize that you are the one who goes there and you can change the channel.

He has no right to dominate your mind. Get him out of there and get your mind on what you can do for you. Of course it's hard. But that's why you are here. If we can do it you can.

How do you KNOW things will get worse? Oh. I agree with you. They will likely blip worse if you pull back, show mild disinterest, change your focus, set limits. But I believe there is a reasonable chance in the longer term he will respond by recognizing that he suffers not you, from his dumb moves. And that is what you want. For him to care about him, not how he can jerk you around.

After a period of estrangement and then hostility by him, I am in contact by text with my son. A very wise mother here coached me to stay in contact and supportive. I did. I tell him good morning. Hi. But alot I ask him if he went to the doctor as he has a mortal disease and does not take necessary treatment.

Today he wrote back: I'll have the answer for you (and myself) next week.

He means I think he will go to the doctor and he feels accountable to himself to be responsible for his health.

Even though this is just two words, it is a huge shift. And myself.

This is what we seek. They are oil tankers turning around. By sight the change is measured in very incremental steps. But tankers really go very fast. We can't see it though.

That is why you need to change: your focus and your attitude and your self talk. A watched pot does not boil. (Sorry for mixed metaphors.)

Of course you are furious at him. And rightfully. Be mad. Give yourself as long as you need. But set a deadline. Your life is yours. Take it back.

 

[WearyinCanada]

it's been a rough weekend...as my son gets closer and closer to being homeless (today was supposed to be the day), the belittlement and bombardment of blame and excuses just got worse and worse. He refuses to go to a shelter, and accuses me of not caring enough, "leaving him in the mud" etc etc...constantly "asking" me what I have done for him, all the while blaming me for "making him an empty person", saying that "I have done enough damage", am "evil"....blamed me for "having 3 kids before making sure my firsts mental health checks out"...I'm a "bully", I'm "dead to him"...blames me for not "mass applying to jobs" the last couple of days for him because he has no access to a computer or his resume (but is clearly able to message me from social media)

He is so incredibly manipulative and smart...and uses every trick in the book, and throws everything back at me. He knows that I have held this "tough love" hardline/boundary for years....so he throws that back at me. Accuses me of never showing him warmth or giving him the "tools to be independent". When I tell him that I do love him, and haven't given up on him...that's never good enough, or comforting enough....if I don't respond to his messages and engage in the back and forth, I am "ignoring him and don't care".

At the end of every night after I end the daily stream of back and forth, he ends with the subtle threats of "goodbye", hopes I'm happy and warm and enjoying all of my food and possessions....and then in the mornings will bait me back into responding.

I go through the happiness of seeing him online (because I know he's at least alive)....and also the dread of engaging with him. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

 

[BusynMember]

Why do you listen to him abuse you?

You never taught him basic care and values as a kid? Of course you did! He just wont use them. What are you supposed to do now that he is a defiant grown adult?

He wont go to a shelter but he CAN. Its his choice to do nothing to help himself. He wants the Bank of Mom not only to support his dangerous lifestyle but to let him live with you AND make no adult demands on him. Probably wants you to let him use your car, pay his insurance and tickets, smoke dope in your house, cook for him, buy his food, clean his room, wash his clothes, not work and hand out money. As if he were 11 years old. That is unreasonable.

He is just like most of the adult kids who bring us here....abusive and lazy. I would turn off the phone at his first sign of "you are" abuse....disconnect call. Why does he have all the power? Take it back.

Say "i will talk to you when tou can be nice to me. I love you but you are smart and can do this yourself. And I demand respect." (Click). Turn off ringtone.


This worked well for me. My son is nice to me now or he knows I will disconnect.


If your spouse talked to you this way would you listen? Your son is an adult man and doing domestic abuse to you. Son or not he has no right to abuse you. He knows why he is where he is. Because of himself. He knows the truth but wont say so. He is hoping to get some perks out of his abuse, like all abusers. Yes adult kids can be our abusers. Perhaps talk to a domestic abuse counselor. That is what tjey do.

Please take care of you, get therapy, join AlAnon, stop giving your son a long forum for verbal vomit and stop trying to answer him. You wont win. Less is more. Hide the phone in a drawer.

Hold strong! You matter as much as your son. You are a loving precious person being abused.

Love and light!