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WearyinCanada
New Member
I agree with all of you. It's not helping. My question is, when you disconnect how do you deal with the feeling you are abandoning, etc? And how/when do you reach back out?
I know that disconnecting feeds his belief that I was/am never there for him....as untrue as it is.
I know that disconnecting feeds his belief that I was/am never there for him....as untrue as it is.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
First. You are neither disconnecting nor abandoning. You are setting a limit.
You have 3 or 4 kids I think. When they tried to run in the street, what did you do? When they hit eachother or you how did you respond?
Was this abandonment? Was this disconnecting? No. This was merely necessary and good parenting. Had you not done this you would have been remiss.
Same thing here. To participate with your adult son in an abusive and self destructive pattern is like aiding and abetting a toddler to run into the street, or ride in a car without a car seat. I am exaggerating to make a point, but you get my drift.
Our adult kids are ambivalent about detaching. We need to support them to do so. Thats what you will learn here. Have you read the detaching thread? It lays it out.
Your love and connection to him never go away. What changes is this: you let him be responsible for his own actions, thoughts and feelings. And you do the same.
For starters: what can you do for you today? Have you thought about Alanon or coda? Do you know the Vietnamese Buddhist, I can't ever remember how to spell his name--thich Nakt Hahn. It's three words. He lives in plum village France. There are all kinds of meditation tapes by him. I love him. They will help you stop the destructive mind tapes, and center yourself in you.
You have 3 or 4 kids I think. When they tried to run in the street, what did you do? When they hit eachother or you how did you respond?
Was this abandonment? Was this disconnecting? No. This was merely necessary and good parenting. Had you not done this you would have been remiss.
Same thing here. To participate with your adult son in an abusive and self destructive pattern is like aiding and abetting a toddler to run into the street, or ride in a car without a car seat. I am exaggerating to make a point, but you get my drift.
Our adult kids are ambivalent about detaching. We need to support them to do so. Thats what you will learn here. Have you read the detaching thread? It lays it out.
Your love and connection to him never go away. What changes is this: you let him be responsible for his own actions, thoughts and feelings. And you do the same.
For starters: what can you do for you today? Have you thought about Alanon or coda? Do you know the Vietnamese Buddhist, I can't ever remember how to spell his name--thich Nakt Hahn. It's three words. He lives in plum village France. There are all kinds of meditation tapes by him. I love him. They will help you stop the destructive mind tapes, and center yourself in you.
RN0441
100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Welcome.
I agree with the advice of others. You need to set limits on when you talk to him. He should not be the center point nor focus of your life. He is not doing what HE needs to do. It has nothing at all to do with you or how you raised him. Don't let him abuse you and don't let him guilt you. Most of us learn this the hard way.
We are moms and we think that we can control everything. Guess what? We cannot even begin to control how our adult children live their lives. Period.
I have to say that I think your son is using way more than marijuana. He sounds like an addict to me by his behaviors and the way he thinks. They all pretty much act the same way and say the same things. My son included when he was using. Their thinking becomes very skewed by the drug use.
I had to put my son in God's hands. I knew that this problem were way too big for me to handle on my own. It was destroying the very essence of who I was. I continued to ask "how did we get here?" The question is now how or why but what do we need to do to live our own life with purpose and meaning while waiting for them to do the same.
My son is now 23 and sober after using for about seven years. I still see the thinking of a much younger person but I also see him now able to redirect with the tools he learned in his faith based long term and VERY STRICT program. I never thought we'd get here I swear to God I did not.
We enabled him for years but he was a minor at the time and we had no idea what we were dealing with or how long it would last. In many ways it was a gift that I did not know how long it would last or I would have been too overwhelmed.
You should feel somewhat thankful that he does not live close now. I could not bear to see my son trying to destroy himself and refusing help or that he even had a problem. Hello look around at the destruction you have caused!! I am just now rebuilding our relationship after he lived far away for almost 3 years.
If you are able to see a therapist that specializes in addiction that could help you tremendously to set boundaries for yourself and for him. This does NOT mean you do not love your son. I did this FOR my son so that I would be able to be the parent that he needed to get him through this, which is NOT in any way typical parenting. It is something you have to learn and it's brand new and it takes a LOT of hard work.
We do understand. We have walked this walk.
I agree with the advice of others. You need to set limits on when you talk to him. He should not be the center point nor focus of your life. He is not doing what HE needs to do. It has nothing at all to do with you or how you raised him. Don't let him abuse you and don't let him guilt you. Most of us learn this the hard way.
We are moms and we think that we can control everything. Guess what? We cannot even begin to control how our adult children live their lives. Period.
I have to say that I think your son is using way more than marijuana. He sounds like an addict to me by his behaviors and the way he thinks. They all pretty much act the same way and say the same things. My son included when he was using. Their thinking becomes very skewed by the drug use.
I had to put my son in God's hands. I knew that this problem were way too big for me to handle on my own. It was destroying the very essence of who I was. I continued to ask "how did we get here?" The question is now how or why but what do we need to do to live our own life with purpose and meaning while waiting for them to do the same.
My son is now 23 and sober after using for about seven years. I still see the thinking of a much younger person but I also see him now able to redirect with the tools he learned in his faith based long term and VERY STRICT program. I never thought we'd get here I swear to God I did not.
We enabled him for years but he was a minor at the time and we had no idea what we were dealing with or how long it would last. In many ways it was a gift that I did not know how long it would last or I would have been too overwhelmed.
You should feel somewhat thankful that he does not live close now. I could not bear to see my son trying to destroy himself and refusing help or that he even had a problem. Hello look around at the destruction you have caused!! I am just now rebuilding our relationship after he lived far away for almost 3 years.
If you are able to see a therapist that specializes in addiction that could help you tremendously to set boundaries for yourself and for him. This does NOT mean you do not love your son. I did this FOR my son so that I would be able to be the parent that he needed to get him through this, which is NOT in any way typical parenting. It is something you have to learn and it's brand new and it takes a LOT of hard work.
We do understand. We have walked this walk.
WearyinCanada
New Member
Thank you for the reply...I am looking into therapy, but not Al-Anon or CODA...after researching them both, neither seems like the correct fit. Also not big on meditation, but thank you for the suggestion 
WearyinCanada
New Member
Thank you RN...he definitely did hard drugs a few years ago, we know this for a fact. I honestly dont think he is now...but could be very wrong.
I agree, I am thankful for my own sake that he is far away (literally the opposite side of Canada). That said, it makes things easier and harder at the same time!
I agree, I am thankful for my own sake that he is far away (literally the opposite side of Canada). That said, it makes things easier and harder at the same time!
elizabrary
Well-Known Member
When my daughter used to flip out on me like that I would hang up the phone. She would call back repeatedly, leaving screaming messages until I just turned off the phones. It took awhile, but she figured out that every single time she became disrespectful and/or manipulative I would hang up and not answer the phone until some time later, usually the following day or two. So she stopped doing it. With these kids the boundaries have to be set in stone for them to get it. Once you set a boundary stick to it and after awhile they will figure it out and stop the behavior with you.
Hi Weary,
I am sorry for what you are going through but so glad you found us here. This is not an easy journey but I am proof that you can get through this and go on to live a happy life. Read my signature for a little insight into my story.
I hope you can let go of the anger, not for your son but for you.
Please understand, you nor I owe our adult children anything. We have raised them as best we could and they are adults now. To blame us is just a weak excuse. I remember when my son was younger he would scream at me "I can't wait till I don't live here anymore, my life is going to be great, I'll get a good job and make lots of money and you will never here from me" Ya, that didn't happen. Your son just like mine, they are adults and can choose how they want to live their lives. If something isn't going well for them, they have the power to change it but they don't, instead they blame us.
My son has been on/off homeless for most of his adult life - he will be 37 in a few weeks. I have had "desperate" messages from him - "I'm going to starve and freeze to death" to which I replied, I'm sorry you are having a tough time, you need to get to a shelter. I didn't like having to that but I had made the choice that I would no longer enable him.
You have nothing to feel guilty about. You did not do this to him, he has made poor choices for himself. That's on him.
No, it's not easy to detach but it's necessary if you want to survive and move on.
Below is the link to a an article on detachment. It's at the top of this forum.
It's a must read.
https://conductdisorders.com/community/threads/article-on-detachment.53639/
By no means are you abandoning your son. He's an adult, he's not an infant that you left on a doorstep.
This is not an easy journey but for me, what really helped me, was to fully accept that my son is going to live his life the way he chooses and that I have ZERO control over it. I went through the grieving process and grieved for all the hopes and dreams I used to have for him. I grieved for the sweet little boy he once was. I took my life back piece by piece. I started living for myself.
Weary, please be very good to yourself. You deserve to be happy and live your life to the fullest.
((HUGS))
I am sorry for what you are going through but so glad you found us here. This is not an easy journey but I am proof that you can get through this and go on to live a happy life. Read my signature for a little insight into my story.
I encourage you to not hold onto the anger. Don't get me wrong, you have every right to be angry. I've been right where you are, I get it. I'm a little farther down the road with my son and something I've learned is when we hold onto anger or guilt, we are giving our difficult child power over our emotions. There is a also a quote that I really like, not sure who said it but it's true. "holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die"I harbour so much anger towards him....for wasted opportunities, for taking advantage of every family member who has ever believed he would pay back money, for blaming me for all of his problems, for how he treats my mother. There is SO much work for him to do for me to even believe things are changing...I have lots of hope but no faith in him
I hope you can let go of the anger, not for your son but for you.
I am the same way with my son. I have been berated by him for taking a vacation while he was in jail.
Please understand, you nor I owe our adult children anything. We have raised them as best we could and they are adults now. To blame us is just a weak excuse. I remember when my son was younger he would scream at me "I can't wait till I don't live here anymore, my life is going to be great, I'll get a good job and make lots of money and you will never here from me" Ya, that didn't happen. Your son just like mine, they are adults and can choose how they want to live their lives. If something isn't going well for them, they have the power to change it but they don't, instead they blame us.
My dear friend, you are stuck in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)
My son has been on/off homeless for most of his adult life - he will be 37 in a few weeks. I have had "desperate" messages from him - "I'm going to starve and freeze to death" to which I replied, I'm sorry you are having a tough time, you need to get to a shelter. I didn't like having to that but I had made the choice that I would no longer enable him.
You have nothing to feel guilty about. You did not do this to him, he has made poor choices for himself. That's on him.
No, it's not easy to detach but it's necessary if you want to survive and move on.
Below is the link to a an article on detachment. It's at the top of this forum.
It's a must read.
https://conductdisorders.com/community/threads/article-on-detachment.53639/
You have to start changing your thinking. Again, you are stuck in the FOG.
By no means are you abandoning your son. He's an adult, he's not an infant that you left on a doorstep.
This is not an easy journey but for me, what really helped me, was to fully accept that my son is going to live his life the way he chooses and that I have ZERO control over it. I went through the grieving process and grieved for all the hopes and dreams I used to have for him. I grieved for the sweet little boy he once was. I took my life back piece by piece. I started living for myself.
Weary, please be very good to yourself. You deserve to be happy and live your life to the fullest.
((HUGS))
WearyinCanada
New Member
Thank you Tanya, your words were comforting. It's the battle between heart and head for me. I know what's best, and do have the strength to follow through, but am still in that FOG. So exhausting.
Just received the message: "Hospital for 8 hours"....so he chose that route rather than a shelter.
Not sure what the result will be, will update here when I know more.
Just received the message: "Hospital for 8 hours"....so he chose that route rather than a shelter.
Not sure what the result will be, will update here when I know more.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Weary. Do you really know where he is? This blow by blow is so destructive to you.
He is a grown man, a father. You are not his lifeline. The umbilical cord does not help him and it depletes you. He is his lifeline.
He is a grown man, a father. You are not his lifeline. The umbilical cord does not help him and it depletes you. He is his lifeline.
WearyinCanada
New Member
Copabanana, no, nothing to corroborate at this time. I simply replied, 'Thanks for letting me know'.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
They go to the hospital at times for meals and a bed. They are quite good at keeping warm. Hospitals are used, rehabs for a few days, 24 hr. stores, all night laundramats, street friends who offer a couch and sometimes stealing money or store items to sell for rooms and drugs. We hate it but we cant stop it. We CAN choose not to get lawyers when they get arrested. They need consequences, not rescue from Mom. Yes, it hurts but we must be strong even as we cry (crying is all right) or they wont change.
Nothing changes if nothing changes. We must be the change if they wont. Shake up their worlds. Stop the rescue mission. Shock them into doing things themselves like adults do. Dont help, dont help, dont help. Enabling means doing things for them that they can do for themselves. Dont!
Food pantries are plentiful for all. They dont starve. Some even dumpster dive for fresh wrapped, perfectly good tossed out food from grocery stores. This is actually not uncommon.
Nobody on the street has to starve or be cold. There are shelters. Shelters DO have rules like no drugs or fights. If he cant follow the rules he himself is taking a bed away from himself. But there ARE beds.
He is street smart and knows how to survive. It isnt your dream for him, but his dream right now may be the street and no rules. Many wont follow and despise societal rules. But t behey are necessisary to live in comfort and to work. Work equals a boss equals somebody he has to listen to, fair or not, equals rules. Even if he doesnt like them all.
You can let hin learn to decide what his life will be. You have to. Because you cant control an adult. But you dont have to enable him to act 14 and never grow up either. Or you can; some 80 year olds put up with abusive alcoholic 60 year olds and that is their ending. And no one could stop Mom.
Every decision you make is yours.
Every decision he makes is his.
Love and light!
Nothing changes if nothing changes. We must be the change if they wont. Shake up their worlds. Stop the rescue mission. Shock them into doing things themselves like adults do. Dont help, dont help, dont help. Enabling means doing things for them that they can do for themselves. Dont!
Food pantries are plentiful for all. They dont starve. Some even dumpster dive for fresh wrapped, perfectly good tossed out food from grocery stores. This is actually not uncommon.
Nobody on the street has to starve or be cold. There are shelters. Shelters DO have rules like no drugs or fights. If he cant follow the rules he himself is taking a bed away from himself. But there ARE beds.
He is street smart and knows how to survive. It isnt your dream for him, but his dream right now may be the street and no rules. Many wont follow and despise societal rules. But t behey are necessisary to live in comfort and to work. Work equals a boss equals somebody he has to listen to, fair or not, equals rules. Even if he doesnt like them all.
You can let hin learn to decide what his life will be. You have to. Because you cant control an adult. But you dont have to enable him to act 14 and never grow up either. Or you can; some 80 year olds put up with abusive alcoholic 60 year olds and that is their ending. And no one could stop Mom.
Every decision you make is yours.
Every decision he makes is his.
Love and light!
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Triedntrue
Well-Known Member
Hi and welcome. All of us have struggled with this kind of issue with our adult children. What worked with mine was if he gets nasty on the phone or text i tell him i will not let him talk to me like that and he is blocked. Then i block him for up to a week. Things have been much better. I still struggle with issues like giving him food but am getting better. I used to help with rent and bills no more. I realized his brothers both younger were able to handle their own lives very successfully and i was keeping him from doing the same. One thing i have noticed is that when he does do it himself he is proud of himself. Are all his problems solved? No!!! Have i learned to totally allow him to survive on his own. No!!!. But i have come a long way. Prayers to you.
Hi Weary,
Just checking in to see how you are doing today. I'm really glad you found us here. This site is a wonderful place to share what "others" would never understand.
What are you doing that is just for you? What are you doing to be good to yourself?
I want you to each day, do one good thing that is just for you.
I want you to start thinking about things that bring you joy and happiness. Things you used to do but are not doing anymore, or something you have always wanted to do. Think about how you can start doing these things.
These are small easy steps to start taking your life back.
Just checking in to see how you are doing today. I'm really glad you found us here. This site is a wonderful place to share what "others" would never understand.
What are you doing that is just for you? What are you doing to be good to yourself?
I want you to each day, do one good thing that is just for you.
I want you to start thinking about things that bring you joy and happiness. Things you used to do but are not doing anymore, or something you have always wanted to do. Think about how you can start doing these things.
These are small easy steps to start taking your life back.
Dear Weary in Canada,
Wow. Many of the things you said about your son I could have said about our son. We have a 28YO adopted son who lives in Denver, CO. We think he could be Bipolar, as his birth mother was Bipolar. He is nearly homeless, can't hold a job, was arrested a year ago for assault on his old roommate, served 3 mos in house arrest. He constantly texts and (recently) has begun to call us, trying to verbally abuse us. His theme is that we ruined his life because of the various moves we made to different "crummy" towns because of my husband's profession (pastor). His mind has completely distorted the past. He doesn't seem to remember all the love and care we poured into him, the fun family times, holidays, vacations, supporting his soccer years, etc. We are "miserable," "evil" "selfish", etc. "How could you do that (moving) to your children?" He is also very angry because we won't co-sign a loan for a car for him. Like anybody in their right mind would do such a thing for someone who can't hold a job. You can't have a conversation with him because he just returns again and again to attacking us. In his mind, there's nothing wrong with him; it's us and everyone else who has done him wrong. We have begged him to get help or to come to where we live and let us help him get help. He refuses and calls us every name in the book. Two weeks ago, I asked him to let us buy him a plane or bus ticket so he could come for a couple of weeks and be with us and our other son for Christmas--he refused. So here we are. I stumbled onto this site about a year ago, and it has helped me so much. Just knowing that I'm not alone, that there are other good parents out there who are experiencing the same things we are. Also, the wisdom I have received from those who post has helped. I return to the site often, just to get perspective straight and help through the grieving process.
I am sorry for the suffering you are going through. At times, I too feel guilty for enjoying something, knowing our son is not enjoying things in his life. I have days when I can detach and days/nights when I feel overwhelmed with grief and a desire to once again try to rescue him. So, all that to say that what you are experiencing is well-known to the rest of us too, I'm sorry to say. Welcome.
Wow. Many of the things you said about your son I could have said about our son. We have a 28YO adopted son who lives in Denver, CO. We think he could be Bipolar, as his birth mother was Bipolar. He is nearly homeless, can't hold a job, was arrested a year ago for assault on his old roommate, served 3 mos in house arrest. He constantly texts and (recently) has begun to call us, trying to verbally abuse us. His theme is that we ruined his life because of the various moves we made to different "crummy" towns because of my husband's profession (pastor). His mind has completely distorted the past. He doesn't seem to remember all the love and care we poured into him, the fun family times, holidays, vacations, supporting his soccer years, etc. We are "miserable," "evil" "selfish", etc. "How could you do that (moving) to your children?" He is also very angry because we won't co-sign a loan for a car for him. Like anybody in their right mind would do such a thing for someone who can't hold a job. You can't have a conversation with him because he just returns again and again to attacking us. In his mind, there's nothing wrong with him; it's us and everyone else who has done him wrong. We have begged him to get help or to come to where we live and let us help him get help. He refuses and calls us every name in the book. Two weeks ago, I asked him to let us buy him a plane or bus ticket so he could come for a couple of weeks and be with us and our other son for Christmas--he refused. So here we are. I stumbled onto this site about a year ago, and it has helped me so much. Just knowing that I'm not alone, that there are other good parents out there who are experiencing the same things we are. Also, the wisdom I have received from those who post has helped. I return to the site often, just to get perspective straight and help through the grieving process.
I am sorry for the suffering you are going through. At times, I too feel guilty for enjoying something, knowing our son is not enjoying things in his life. I have days when I can detach and days/nights when I feel overwhelmed with grief and a desire to once again try to rescue him. So, all that to say that what you are experiencing is well-known to the rest of us too, I'm sorry to say. Welcome.
WearyinCanada
New Member
Hi Tanya, thank you for thinking of me I am good today I do feel like I need to clarify something though, I DO do lots of things for myself (hair, lashes, lunches with friends, I have a horse, time with my family etc)...I have not stopped or changed my life because of my son....HOWEVER, I DO have him on my mind...sometimes more than others for sure!!
I am good today I do feel like I need to clarify something though, I DO do lots of things for myself (hair, lashes, lunches with friends, I have a horse, time with my family etc)...I have not stopped or changed my life because of my son....HOWEVER, I DO have him on my mind...sometimes more than others for sure!!WearyinCanada
New Member
Thank you Beta, and I am sorry you are dealing with everything also..its such a difficult thing, and something I never imagined in my life! I'm sure none of us did!
WearyinCanada
New Member
Was wondering this morning.....how do you all deal with trying to determine what is and isn't true? Meaning, wondering if something is part of a story for empathy etc...and what might really be an effort, or something they are actually dealing with?
For me, I currently first assume most (if not all) things are a flat out lie, or exaggerated...which based on past behavior is the correct assumption.
That said, a kernel of me wonders if I will dismiss something truthful, when I shouldn't.
How do you all balance that?
For me, I currently first assume most (if not all) things are a flat out lie, or exaggerated...which based on past behavior is the correct assumption.
That said, a kernel of me wonders if I will dismiss something truthful, when I shouldn't.
How do you all balance that?
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
This is what I did when my daughter was using drugs.
I didnt pay any attention to words. She told me after she got sobet, "Never trust a drug addict. They lie. All.The.Time."
I went strictly by what she DID. Her ACTIONS. When she quit her actions made it obvious and the lies ended.
Actions speak louder than words.
I didnt pay any attention to words. She told me after she got sobet, "Never trust a drug addict. They lie. All.The.Time."
I went strictly by what she DID. Her ACTIONS. When she quit her actions made it obvious and the lies ended.
Actions speak louder than words.
WearyinCanada
New Member
So I get that...but I'm thinking more of situations like when he tells me his friend died last night...or that he went to the ER, and his version of what they told him....provable things eventually, but in the moment, I'm always unsure of whether my assumption of falsehood is the best way to approach.
So less about his actions specifically, more so about whether he is trying to manipulate me, or genuinely deserves empathy. I dont trust him at all...but wonder sometimes if that clouds my ability to see the truth when it presents itself
So less about his actions specifically, more so about whether he is trying to manipulate me, or genuinely deserves empathy. I dont trust him at all...but wonder sometimes if that clouds my ability to see the truth when it presents itself
